Help Identify Old Pry Bar (Auto, Railroad?)

[DB26]

Hello everyone. I acquired an old wedge type pry bar and was wondering if anyone can tell me its industry (auto/rail) or application? It’s stamped KL inside of a shield logo and USA right under that. About 5 feet long and comes to a point on the handle end. Thanks everyone. 
 

 

 

[John348]

Lift up manhole covers?

[DB26]

17 minutes ago, John348 said:

Lift up manhole covers?

Maybe. I was thinking maybe lifting railroad tracks. 

[kings32]

Yes railroad

 

[TAKerry]

Looks like it belongs in the shop.

[60FlatTop]

23 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

Looks like it belongs in the shop.

Anything not marked "shop" defaults to "Trunk".

[wayne sheldon]

Ones I have seen had more of a longer curve near the bottom.

It MIGHT be (or might not be?) for moving rail cars in the work yards (or even on sidings). One pops the end under the rail car wheel, between the steel wheel and the rail, in line with the rail. The purchase/leverage is incredible! A good rail man can move a loaded rail car (or a short string of empties) a considerable distance (fifty to a couple hundred feet) in a matter of minutes using one of those bars. Two inches at a time! A very handy tool for moving cars to the loading dock or lift when a switch engine isn't handy!

 

I once used the same principles to position a four ton lathe after I was told it couldn't be done. And it wasn't on wheels!

[rocketraider]

Never seen one with a prying end like that. Looks useful.

 

My dad and uncle had one they called "the quietus bar". As in it could put the quietus or end to an aggravating task. I still have it here somewhere.

[John348]

The "SHOP" marking looks like it was added after by a creative welder. 

[NewOldWood]

I have a couple bars very similar to that but with slightly different ends on them. I got them from an estate sale, they look very old. Not much you can't move with them, I've schooched a couple pretty good sized milling machines across the floor with them. I believe it was an ancient Greek that said something like, Give me a long enough lever and I will move the world.

[Grimy]

17 minutes ago, NewOldWood said:

I believe it was an ancient Greek that said something like, Give me a long enough lever and I will move the world.

For future reference to amuse your friends, that would be Mr. Archimedes...  🙂

[46 woodie]

I don't think it's anything exotic. We hired a rigging company to move several machines and they had bar's just like that. Get a good purchase and use the curve and lift the machine a tad so you can get something under it and go from there.  Inch your way up until you can get a fork lift under it.

[46 woodie]

I just called my buddy and described the bar and it's called a "Riggers Nose Bar" designed to fit under a raised bace on machinery. He has no idea why they call it a "nose bar".

[DB26]

Thanks for the responses everyone! 

[Ronnie]

4 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

It MIGHT be (or might not be?) for moving rail cars in the work yards (or even on sidings). One pops the end under the rail car wheel, between the steel wheel and the rail, in line with the rail. The purchase/leverage is incredible! A good rail man can move a loaded rail car (or a short string of empties) a considerable distance (fifty to a couple hundred feet) in a matter of minutes using one of those bars.

I think you are on the right track (pun intended) but what is shown in the photo above may be a slightly different type of bar. I worked as a machinist in a Railroad shop for many years. Steam locomotives were once repaired there. 

 

I've saw the bars used to move freight cars as described above. They had long wooden handles with a steel contraption attached to give them more leverage to turn the wheels.

 

I've heard old machinist's, who worked at the shop in the steam engine days, describe how a steam locomotive's drive wheels could get "dead centered" when it stopped. When that happened the steam piston couldn't move the drive rods to turn the wheels when the locomotive tried to move again. They said a bar was carried on the locomotive to "nudge" the wheels just enough to allow the piston and connecting rods to move off dead center. The bar shown in the photo above matches the description of the bar they said was used to do that.

 

 

[Gunsmoke]

It's a universal long pry bar, obviously can be used for a thousand purposes. Doubt they were ever singled out as being for only one specific job (railway, machinery, construction, shipping, old car restoration). But I think Ed and his friend could have used a couple last month on those White tires!

[Larry Schramm]

Here ya go.  Railroad track bar.  KCL probably stands for the Kennebec Central Lines/ railroad.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennebec_Central_Railroad

 

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•  Gray C43.45 - 42 Inch Railroad Track Pry Bar 7/8 Inch Hexagon Shank Royal Blue Paint Finish

Gray C43.45 - 42 Inch Railroad Track Pry Bar 7/8 Inch Hexagon Shank Royal Blue Paint Finish

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$60.89 USD

Sold in multiples of 1 (s)

• Shank size (inches): 7/8 Inch
• Width of cut (inches): 1-1/8 Inch
• Forged from premium alloy steel.
• Royal blue paint finish.
• Specialty heat-treated for maximum durability.
• Limited lifetime warranty.
• Overall Dimensions: 39.375'' L x 0.875'' W x 0.875'' H
• Weight: 7.16 lb.

Sku: HT BAR C43.45

Edited April 9, 2022 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

4 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I think you are on the right track (pun intended) but what is shown in the photo above may be a slightly different type of bar.

 

Pun enjoyed!

As I said, it "might not be". And the rail car bars I have seen were all steel, but had a slightly different curve near the bottom end. I suspect it may have been intended for some similar usage, like moving or lifting heavy machinery. Specialty bars were made for many such things. I used to have a couple nice steel digging bars. Actually those digging bars belonged to my father, and unfortunately, my brother sold them and a few other tools I really wanted to keep shortly after dad passed away. But I still have one I had gotten from someone else in the family years ago.

The digging bars were straight, with sharp points on each end. One end was a broad point, the other end a narrow point. But I often used those bars to move things like four ton lathes. Often the straight ends were not advantageous for that usage, but I could make it work.

[Chris Bamford]

3 hours ago, Ronnie said:

...I've saw the bars used to move freight cars as described above. They had long wooden handles with a steel contraption attached to give them more leverage to turn the wheels...

 

I'm a volunteer motorman (streetcar driver) with the Edmonton Radial Railway Society. We use a 'box car mover' as Ronnie describes to move inoperable equipment around the barn.  Brief action video HERE.

[Ronnie]

 

5 minutes ago, Chris Bamford said:

I'm a volunteer motorman (streetcar driver) with the Edmonton Radial Railway Society. We use a 'box car mover' as Ronnie describes to move inoperable equipment around the barn.  Brief action video HERE.

That's exactly what I was talking about.   I just saw a few of them over the years around the shop where I worked. I looked at one of them but never tried to use it. Machinist didn't do that kind of stuff.   I doubt they were used much at big shops like where I worked. If cars needed to be moved at our shop we had small switch engines for that.

[hook]

9 hours ago, Ronnie said:

I think you are on the right track (pun intended) but what is shown in the photo above may be a slightly different type of bar. I worked as a machinist in a Railroad shop for many years. Steam locomotives were once repaired there. 

 

I've saw the bars used to move freight cars as described above. They had long wooden handles with a steel contraption attached to give them more leverage to turn the wheels.

 

I've heard old machinist's, who worked at the shop in the steam engine days, describe how a steam locomotive's drive wheels could get "dead centered" when it stopped. When that happened the steam piston couldn't move the drive rods to turn the wheels when the locomotive tried to move again. They said a bar was carried on the locomotive to "nudge" the wheels just enough to allow the piston and connecting rods to move off dead center. The bar shown in the photo above matches the description of the bar they said was used to do that.

 

 

Steam engine drivers were quartered from one side of the engine to the other. They could not be prevented from moving if stopped dead center because the drivers other side of the engine would move the drivers. Your old machinist was pulling your leg and he had it pulled out quite a bit.

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, hook said:

Steam engine drivers were quartered from one side of the engine to the other. They could not be prevented from moving if stopped dead center because the drivers other side of the engine would move the drivers. Your old machinist was pulling your leg and he had it pulled out quite a bit.

You could be right. I was a machinist apprentice who had never laid eyes on a steam locomotive so I didn't question what they said. It's odd that they would pull a story like that out of thin air but maybe they did. Machinist worked on the steam locomotives. Perhaps the locomotive was malfunctioning when that happened.

 

EDIT: Apparently the old machinist weren't pulling my leg too much. It is possible. Here is a locomotive that was stuck but it finally did get moving on it's own.

 

 

[60FlatTop]

Here is a group of gandy dancers putting their bars to work.

 

 

At one point in my life I was a millwright in a foundry at General Railway Signal Co. Old John Potter was the lead man and had retired from the Railroad prior to that job. He was full of stories and if you asked the right questions you could really extend the lunch break.

[DB26]

Coincidentally I worked for BNSF Railway as a laborer for about a year and a half starting in 2015. Glad to see fellow railroaders here. I used to work at the Commerce California location fueling up and cleaning locomotives. 

[hook]

23 hours ago, Ronnie said:

You could be right. I was a machinist apprentice who had never laid eyes on a steam locomotive so I didn't question what they said. It's odd that they would pull a story like that out of thin air but maybe they did. Machinist worked on the steam locomotives. Perhaps the locomotive was malfunctioning when that happened.

 

EDIT: Apparently the old machinist weren't pulling my leg too much. It is possible. Here is a locomotive that was stuck but it finally did get moving on it's own.

 

 

Mechanically, a locomotive engine can't be locked on dead center. This is because when one side is dead center the other side is vertical and at the beginning of the power stroke. The problem is while sitting still steam pressure gets in the opposite cylinders and prevents movement. However this is a simple maneuver of backing the engine approx. a foot to clear the unwanted pressure, then proceeding forward. If you look at your YouTube video you will see the round shaft on the right turning. That is the Engineer moving the valve mechanism to reverse and then back to forward. Also that's why you see a large burst of steam up front.

Edited April 10, 2022 by hook
left out (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

14 hours ago, hook said:

Mechanically, a locomotive engine can't be locked on dead center.

Below is an excerpt from the Locomotive Engineers Journal, 1896. Your mind seems to be made up that it is impossible for a steam locomotive to get stuck on dead center, or that a bar would be carried to get it unstuck, so I doubt this will change your mind. I'm done...

 

[hook]

7 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Below is an excerpt from the Locomotive Engineers Journal, 1896. Your mind seems to be made up that it is impossible for a steam locomotive to get stuck on dead center, or that a bar would be carried to get it unstuck, so I doubt this will change your mind. I'm done...

 

Ronnie, I said a locomotive could not be mechanically stuck at dead center because the drivers are placed 90 degrees to each other from one side of the engine to the other. The only reason that the engine gets locked is because at dead center of either side steam can release into the opposing cylinder and prevent the power stroke on the other from pushing against it. Back in 1896, the date of your article, they may not have understood the simple fix of reversing the valve gear and backing the engine a little to release pressure in the offending cylinder. Back then everything was bull work and the engines were smaller. Can you imagine doing that to a Hudson 4-6-4 or Niagara 4-8-4 locomotive? Everyone thinks that it's because of the driver bars being in a straight line that they can't move. That's not the case at all because on the opposite side of the locomotive they are up and down at the beginning of their power stroke. It's because of the placement of the valve gear to the cylinders and the building of steam on the wrong side on the piston.

[TAKerry]

On 4/8/2022 at 4:48 PM, John348 said:

The "SHOP" marking looks like it was added after by a creative welder. 

In the construction business I see that kind of thing all of the time. Usually a companies initials welded onto a piece of equipment, scaffolding etc.

[Flivverking]

Crankshaft end play checker for the early 4 and 6 cylinder AC Mack trucks.😝

 We see utilitarion commercial made tools like this all the time..

It may have no particular use but offered in various commerical catalogs for various uses.

 (Man hole cover rods usually have a hook)

 We easily have a years worth of postings (but wouldn't)of odds and ends of unidentified old  tools.

 Some have company names..I don't care what they were used for originally...just use it for what I want.

 The only one I cherish is a coal shovel with a burned in the wood handle,

" Bacon Banjo Company,New London Ct." 

It wasn't used to build banjos!

Modern day ,it shovels snow real good.

I no longer burn coal .

 

 

[jerry k]

Johnson Bar ?

 

[Flivverking]

A Johnson bar(slang) in railroad is the piston valve adjusting/ reversing lever used to cut down on inlet valve travel once a steam loco is under power to be more efficient in steam usage..then also used to reverse the valving in the cylinder steam chest for backing up a  steam locomotive.

 My gramps was an engineer on the New Haven line from 1920 to 1952.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Flivverking
Re spell johnson bar! (see edit history)

[JACK M]

A buddy of mine used to refer to his as a "Burk Bar".

Anybody know why?

[hook]

2 hours ago, jerry k said:

Johnson Bar ?

 

Jerry K, I know what your thinking of in reference to a Johnson bar, but usually they have wheels on them. See the picture. Since everyone seems to be talking railroad they come up with the railroad term that has nothing to do with a pry bar.

[TAKerry]

Hooks pic is what I think of as a Johnson bar. We used to primarily build banks. Back in the day they always had a vault. That was my experience with professional riggers. Its amazing what and how something gigantic (vault doors) can be moved around with the right tool and technique.