Lock ring removal

[stakeside]

I believe there is a tool that is used to release the lock ring. It would fit in the open area on lock ring.

Anybody have this tool? Should be easy to fabricate if I had a picture.

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by stakeside
E (see edit history)

[31nash880]

Looks like the wheel on my nash. Used atool i found at habor freight. A big flat screw driver type end. Worked well but may scar paint.

[stakeside]

Here are different lock rings for Firestone rims.

 

[Ltc4748]

Stakeside, There are several bars that can be used to remove the lock ring. Some like certain types, I use a pry bar that I picked up from a sale. I also want to be sure that you understand the dangers of putting air into a multi piece rim. Those wheels have maimed or killed more people than what you may think. The lock ring groove on the rim must have the rust and dirt removed from it. The lock ring should not be distorted, must be visibly inspected for cracks,  and when installed is snug on the rim . When you put air into these rims the only safe way is to have a tire cage. Mechanics my age all have seen the safety videos and pictures of what can happen when working with the split rims. The worst one I was shown was from 7 years ago, 2 guys in a large two bay garage, the video was from a security system. The mechanic was rolling the tire after removing it from the vehicle and left it fall over to lay flat on the floor. The ring blew on impact and the rim knocked him clear off his feet and onto his back, the second man turned to run away and the rim came back down off the 20 foot ceiling and pile drove him to the ground, It bounced one more time and landed on top of the mechanic that was not moving on the floor.  Please be very careful, When a 10.00X20 truck wheel separates at or near full pressure I am told they can lift a VW beetle off the ground. The tire cage is junk after one rim unloads while filling a wheel. While filling them I have an inflater with a long hose so I can stand safely away from it. I know people who have changed them for years with no issues, I also know 2 who were not as lucky. Be safe.

[edinmass]

If you need help with doing a lock ring.........You should NOT be doing a lock ring. There is fifty times more danger there than you realize..........get a professional to do it.........and the paint will be damaged more than you can imagine. Not their fault.

[Larry Schramm]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

If you need help with doing a lock ring.........You should NOT be doing a lock ring. There is fifty times more danger there than you realize..........get a professional to do it.........and the paint will be damaged more than you can imagine. Not their fault.

 

I agree with edinmass.

 

There is a reason that lock rings are illegal for new vehicles for some time to the best of my knowledge.  I think they were banned in the 1960's.   Too many individuals have been killed installing tires and the rings came loose.  That is why many tire places either will not work on them or they have a large cage for protection, and even then it is dangerous.

 

Even old car owners manuals and service manuals tell the owner to fill the tire on the side opposite of the split ring.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Andy J]

As a teenager in the early '70s,I fixed several split wheel tractor trailer tires with lock rings at a service station I worked at for the summer.The owner showed me how to fix them and he told me they would hurt you or kill you if you weren't careful.I remember they were easy to fix and it didn't seem too dangerous to me.He just told me to always make sure the ring was snapped in good,lay the tire ring side down,and don't stand over it when airing it up.I never had a problem.I guess the Lord was looking out for me because I never got hurt.

[stakeside]

Good information. Thanks

[Bloo]

There is a lot of confusion about lock rings. There are at least 3 different things that people refer to as a "split rim".

 

The first is the rim that is split inside to outside as seen on a lot of teens and prewar cars. Those aren't dangerous at all.

 

The second is the "true" split rim that splits right down the center. These are extremely dangerous because unseen rust can cause them to fail. It also is hard to tell by looking if they are locked properly. These are the ones that were recalled and possibly(?) banned in the late 60s because of the deaths associated with them. No shop will work on them even with a cage.

 

The third type is the one shown in in the original post. It is a locking ring rim. It is not inherently dangerous like a true split rim, and if they have stopped using them altogether on trucks it must have been very recently. Danger arises with these if the ring is not locked properly. They will kill you if it isn't. They should be inflated in a cage just in case. ANY shop that works on tires for big trucks and buses should have a cage and be able to handle this.

 

1 hour ago, Andy J said:

As a teenager in the early '70s,I fixed several split wheel tractor trailer tires with lock rings at a service station I worked at for the summer.The owner showed me how to fix them and he told me they would hurt you or kill you if you weren't careful.I remember they were easy to fix and it didn't seem too dangerous to me.He just told me to always make sure the ring was snapped in good,lay the tire ring side down,and don't stand over it when airing it up.I never had a problem.I guess the Lord was looking out for me because I never got hurt.

 

I don't think that laying them upside down is quite enough, although I have heard of people doing it. At one of the stations I worked in, I heard they used to lay them upside down and lower the hoist over them. By the time I was there, we just didn't work on locking ring wheels anymore. No cage.

 

[edinmass]

Photo below is a NEW rim and NEW snap ring. It’s not just age that causes failure. Problem is today 99 percent of tire changers are how shall we say .........not the brightest bulb on the string of Christmas tree lights? Also experience comes into play........I have done hundreds of them, with no problems......because I treat each one like a loaded gun pointed at me. Carelessness is what kills people with experience. One of the best mechanics I know is cavalier with them, and has had two catastrophic failures.......he was lucky. Add in pinching a tube, cracking a ring from prying on it incorrectly, not damaging the rim, and trying to save paint........just leave them for the experts.......and they are very hard to find. I did six wheels last year for a guy who drove 12 hours round trip for me to do them because no shop in his area that he could find would touch them. Old stiff tires add an additional danger. Never, ever, use a tube with a patch. 
 

Notice the failure below is NOT an incorrect installation..........it’s bad metallurgy......and it will kill you when you can’t see it coming. That’s a Duesenberg wheel.....so money wasn’t an issue. I actually had to keep people who should have known better from walking up to it, standing in front of it, and pondering what went wrong. For safety, an ice pick from behind was used to deflate it.........the new tire was ruined......and the owner was not happy that the tire was destroyed for safety reasons. Try that one on for size......
 

Edited February 17, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

I had a rim with no tyre on it that I practiced with using modern tyre tools and quickly realised it was a bad idea, tracked down the period correct tools to do the job and it was much easier 

[Restorer32]

We recently had a 1920's car roll into the shop for restoration.  Not until we were ready to mount the new tires did we realize that one of the lock rings was not actually a lock ring but actually the type ring held in place with clamps.  Lucky fellow whoever aired up that tire.  Happily we were able to find a correct size lock ring at Hershey.

[Oldtech]

I don't have a cage but I always put a couple of loops of chain around the tire - one on each side before I air them up, then go slow and check the seating. Never had an issue. 

[leomara]

My 1928 Chrysler has wood spoke wheels with lock rings.  They were difficult to remove probably because they had not been removed in 70 years.  I had the rims and lock rings blasted.  The lock rings needed a little "prompting" to bring them back to their correct shape prior to installation.  Four snapped right into place easily the fifth one was a problem because someone prior to me had beat the rim with a hammer pinching the notch where the lock ring seats.  With some effort I was able to get the lock ring on that last rim with just the slightest bit of non-100% seating where the damage had been.  I got 10 lbs. of air in them and will proceed with filling them using a chain for security.  Sandblasting the pieces to clean all the rust off I believe made the assembly process go well.

[F&J]

Here is the tool for truck rims.   You also need one flat thinner pry bar like a huge screwdriver, to help pry up the ring after lifting the first part of the ring up out of the wheel groove.  Just don't pry the ring tail way up away from the wheel as it will bend the ring.  You want to walk the bars around the wheel a few inches at a time.  Get the tire bead pressed downwards away from the lock ring to make ring removal easier.

 

A good unbent ring should lay flat on a floor, and the gap at the split should not be spread out when the ring is laying flat.

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by F&J (see edit history)

[Jubilee]

5 hours ago, Oldtech said:

I don't have a cage but I always put a couple of loops of chain around the tire - one on each side before I air them up, then go slow and check the seating. Never had an issue. 

  That’s the way we did it. My Dad had a trucking business and a truck shop 

that did outside repairs and sold truck tires.

  We had a cage, but chains gave you a better view of ring and you could air multiple tires at the same time. Still very dangerous. Can’t believe anyone would air one up where they couldn’t see lock ring.

  Don’t know how many hundreds of those lock ring wheels I did as a teenager (fifties).

  I do know it was too many.

[Hans1]

Put the chain in a piece of fire hose type of material, avoid some paint repair.

 

And a GOOD locking/connection on chain ends.

[Dandy Dave]

Lot of good advice here. The biggest secret is to get the tire to collapse before you even attempt to remove the ring as the bead holds the ring in place. If there is rust in the rim that's a problem. If there is excessive rust. Run away. Dandy Dave!  

[JRA]

Lock rings are true dangerous parts of our antique cars.

When I bought my 1929 Marmon, I decided to repaint the wheels back to the original red color. Tires were new, so I decided to sandblast all 6 wire wheels and their lock rings.
Then the tires were reassembled to the repainted wheels. So I was driving back the car from the shop to my house, on a busy saturday morning, in downtown street, I heard an explosion and a metal sound, almost loosing control of the car.
I looked back to see the tire and inner tube intact laid in the middle of the street, so I stopped immediately to see this very unexpected scenario. I had to drive the car for few meters with the naked wheel to remove it from traffic. The metal noise was the lock ring hitting a wall in the opposite sidewalk, fortunately few moments before a pedestrian. I got very scared with the whole situation. The ring became a deadly projectile, and thanks to God none was hurt.

Inspecting all wheels I could better understand the issue. When the lock rings were sandblasted, became clear that 2 of them were not made of steel, probably brass, and they were originally in the half deflated sidemount tires. Unfortunately this was not informed to me. When the work was done, one of these weak and fragile lock rings went to service the rear left wheel of the car. So, few kilometers of operation were enough for the disaster.

Now these rings were replaced and are fully operational. My understanding was the spares were just decorative pieces in this car in the past, so it lacked of the proper lock rings. They were not operational.

It is not a nice story to tell, but fortunately none was injured, so I share it to demonstrate the risk we may be exposed without proper care and maintenance of these wheels and rings.
Reality is today, most of current professionals do not have full understanding how these old parts operate, despite their honest interest and dedication, and sometimes we rely completely on them, wrongly. So, as antique car owners, we need to investigate, research and learn everyday about our cars, from many sources, as this Forum, so we can be better prepared to guide and execute the maintenance and repair of our automobiles, in every step, then we can operate and enjoy them gracefully and safely.

Best,

JRA

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by JRA (see edit history)

[Walt G]

JRA, well chosen words and thank you for posting them here. Your last paragraph says it all.

Because you own and older car does not mean that you really know what you own! "Then " mechanical applications and need to know how to do things are not the same as today's

instant service with plastic and rubber components. Yes you can be killed  or maimed. That does not mean 'don't own one". Just be sure as JRA mentioned you do your homework, get educated .

We need all of you around so you can come and say hello at Hershey in October of this year!🙂

[MikeC5]

That is scary for sure!  I don't know how many Marmons were made in this era but it surprises me they would have gone to the trouble of using a less expensive material for the side mount lock rings when (I would have thought) just cranking out extra steel ones would have been easier than keeping track of another part number.  Maybe they were cheap aftermarket lock rings?

[JRA]

17 minutes ago, MikeC5 said:

That is scary for sure!  I don't know how many Marmons were made in this era but it surprises me they would have gone to the trouble of using a less expensive material for the side mount lock rings when (I would have thought) just cranking out extra steel ones would have been easier than keeping track of another part number.  Maybe they were cheap aftermarket lock rings?

I believe these rings were replacement, not original, but painted, they were exactly the same.

[MikeC5]

Wow.  I guess I'm going to check mine with a magnet at the very least.