Saw This In Owego, N,Y. - cycle car

[cutlasguy]

This actually ran! Chain Drive. I have no idea what it was!

[NewOldWood]

Just an utterly uneducated guess, but has something of a homemade look to me. Not a terrible job, if i'm right,

[TerryB]

No radiator and a big fan blade, air cooled?

[richasco]

Zooming in, it looks like a small v-twin.

[Gary_Ash]

Looks like an Isadora Duncan Special!

[DFeeney]

The loose chain with no "Tensioner"   or guard  is a accident waiting to happen. Now is the time to correct it while "Everyone still has all their digits." In the early days more than one racer lost his head due to the larger chains coming apart and hitting them.

[hddennis]

It's a 1914 O We Go cycle car.              Howard Dennis

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29261037@N02/17051672938/

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by hddennis (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Two seater. Maybe an Us We Go.

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, DFeeney said:

Now is the time to correct it while "Everyone still has all their digits."

I knew a guy who lost his finger between a chain and sprocket. In the emergency room they asked for the finger and said they could sew it back on. But the dog had run over, grabbed the finger, and headed off for the hedge row. Probably lying there with the finger between his front feet and had one of those dog grins on his face.

[oldcarfudd]

1914 O-We-Go cyclecar.  Two-cylinder, air-cooled, belt-drive.  So says the Standard Catalog.

[Michigan Farmer]

Cyclecars were very popular from about 1914-1916.  There were about 30 different American manufacturers of cyclecars in 1915.  There was also a Cyclecar Manufacturers National Association.  Cycle cars usually had room for the driver and one passenger.  The most common engine was a twin "V" 2 cylinder motor and the most common drive was by chain or belt. Most cyclecars cost roughly $400 to $500. Cyclecars were also popular in England, Germany and France.

[John348]

7 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Two seater. Maybe an Us We Go.

 

Or maybe it should be called  'U Go Get Hurt'

[wayne sheldon]

Legend has it that Isadora Duncan was killed by her scarf getting caught in the rear wheel of her Bugatti while driving in France. Some era reports say it was an Amilcar (circa mid 1920s). She was famous for her dancing, and the long flowing scarves she wore.

I do not claim to know the answer absolutely.

Cyclecars remained popular for many years in Europe due to the licensing fees being based upon engine horsepower. Cyclecars were lightweight and practical transportation with low enough horsepower to be affordable to middle classes. American states mostly did not assess higher fees based upon engine size. So Americans favored more powerful cars for their many advantages like hauling loads or passengers as well as climbing mountain roads.

[JimKB1MCV]

  The internet, if I recall correctly, has debunked the Isadora Duncan scarf story (thanks, Gary)  as an urban myth but who knows. 

  I can remember reading the accident account in a biography of the dancer many years pre-internet so we can't blame the 'net.

  Given the lady's flamboyance I tend to (more or less) suspect theres at a grain of credence there. 🙂

Edited January 22, 2022 by JimKB1MCV
incomplete sentence (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Switching from belt drive to chain drive must have been the 1910 version of a LS swap.

[wayne sheldon]

FWIW, About ten years ago, on some history type forum I had frequented over the years, there was considerable discussion about Isadora Duncan, her life, and her death. One thread participant shared a scan of a French newspaper account published only a couple days after her accident. Now, I am FAR from fluent in French. However, I can understand and speak some amount, and actually read a fair amount of French. The article clearly stated that the car she was driving was an Amilcar. So I tend to believe that original era source.

Keeping this thread on track, many of Amilcar's models in the 1920s were considered cyclecars. Cyclecar racing was very popular throughout Europe and Britain during the 1920s and early 1930s. Amilcars were top contenders in cyclecar racing during the 1920s.

 

I like the Amilcars! Would really love to have one. I also really like the short-lived American fad mid 1910s cyclecars, and have seriously considered buying one a few times.

[George K]

On 1/21/2022 at 4:43 PM, Michigan Farmer said:

Cyclecars were very popular from about 1914-1916.  There were about 30 different American manufacturers of cyclecars in 1915.  There was also a Cyclecar Manufacturers National Association.  Cycle cars usually had room for the driver and one passenger.  The most common engine was a twin "V" 2 cylinder motor and the most common drive was by chain or belt. Most cyclecars cost roughly $400 to $500. Cyclecars were also popular in England, Germany and France.

Going through some old magazines cleaning up. Saw this and just as you stated this is what you described.

[dictator27]

Some cyclecars put the passenger between the driver and the accident.

[1937hd45]

Cycle car racing is very popular in the UK. I've always wanted an American built ZIP. 

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=F+N++Cycle+car+racing&ru=%2fvideos%2fsearch%3fq%3dF%20N%20%20Cycle%20car%20racing%26qs%3dn%26form%3dQBVR%26%3d%25eManage%20Your%20Search%20History%25E%26sp%3d-1%26pq%3df%20n%20cycle%20car%20racing%26sc%3d0-20%26sk%3d%26cvid%3dE74A4E54E909443DBA0098883F95ADA1&view=detail&mid=7D1001AF7750F33A202B7D1001AF7750F33A202B&rvsmid=8CED5661F755EF51623C8CED5661F755EF51623C&FORM=VDQVAP

[Jim Mead]

Click on the Flickr link under the photo taken in the Northeast Classic Car Museum in Norwich, NY to read an edited version of a monograph I wrote regarding this car and its restoration. 
“Monarch”  brand engine built by the Ives Manufacturing Co. makers of Reliance and Monarch motorcycles in my hometown of Owego, NY. I have owned 3 uninstalled O-We-Go Monarch engines. Apparently more engines were built than cars. One engine is now in this car that was discovered in deplorable condition in Utah sans engine. The story of our restoration of the car has been written up in Hemmings publications at least 3 times. BTW, the long, low belt is completely legit. Too tight, and the sheave riding differential action would be lost. Ives offered these motors to other Cyclecar builders. The restored Pioneer Cyclecar carries an identical engine. All best, Jim Mead, Owego, NY

[markus2]

Hello,
I'm located in Belgium and bought, as cyclecars fan and collector, that Pioneer cyclecar which was for sale some times ago.
That Pioneer 1912 cyclecar is also equipped with a Monarch engine (such as the O-We-Go cyclecar) and a Atwater Kent "F" ignition system.
Unfortunately I haven't start the engine yet, I'm still looking for any info about that Monarch engine and its oil lubrification system, but also the Atwater "F" ignition system (wires felt down during the shipping to Belgium, so I'm looking how to fix them again and hope to start this crazy machine soon.
Many thanks for any help or pictures.

Edited March 4, 2022 by markus2 (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

A photo of the timer would help. You need to know this because some of these early units use a vibrator coil only to start and then switch over to Magneto. When this is done you do not want to feed power to the grounding wire of the mag or you will burn out the windings in the magneto. The heavy wire should go to a central point in the cap of the timer that feeds the rotor. Follow two wires with the question marks to see if they go to the timer. If there is only a timer without a magneto then this is only a battery system. Dandy Dave!  

Edited March 4, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Info on the A-K ignition system. 

This excellent ignition system is unlike most ignition systems
using a coil, distributor and battery; thus, one must pay careful
attention to the manufacturer’s instructions if damage is to be
avoided. The system basically consists of a special distributor and
special coil. The distributor is called the ‘UNISPARKER’.
This name apparently was derived from the Latin ‘uno’
meaning ‘one’. The ‘UNISPARKER’ makes one spark for
each distributor point closure. In this system the coil is
specifically designed to work with the ‘UNISPARKER’. It is
not likely that the substitution of a conventional 6 volt
automotive coil will prove satisfactory due to the extremely short
time (DWELL) the ‘UNISPARKER’ points are closed. The points
must not be set ‘closed’ if the system is to operate. The
points should be set ‘open’ .010 to .012 inch, never
closer. There are no other adjustments. The movement of the points
is so fast the human eye cannot follow the motion. Don’t file
or grind the parts of the ‘UNISPARKER’ thinking you will
get the points to move. The parts are hardened and should never
need to be changed.

The ‘UNISPARKER’ was made in several versions. The type
‘K-2’ operated clockwise, only; whereas, the type
‘H’ (without automatic spark advance) was available for
either clockwise or counter clockwise operation. It should be noted
that only the specified rotation will provide correct operation
with the ‘UNISPARKER’. It will not operate in both
directions, as a timer will, on a direct reversing engine. Note the
direction of the notches in the shaft. The correct rotation of the
shaft is in the direction that drags the ‘lifter’ in the
direction the shaft is turning. As the shaft rotates, the
‘lifter’ will be forced off the shaft, bumping the
‘latch’, which closes the points so fast that it appears
nothing happened. Placing a finger lightly on the point spring
should reveal slight movement as the ‘lifter’ snaps back.
One needs to insure that the parts, such as the ‘notched’
shaft, ‘lifter’ and ‘latch’, are kept clean and
oiled regularly with a light weight oil. The manufacturer makes no
mention of grease for lubrication; however, when the
‘UNISPARKER’ was designed in 1904, there may have been no
suitable grease available. The ‘lifter’ spring tension is
very light and oil is probably a totally satisfactory lubricant.
The spring tension seems to be approximately 150 grams to cause the
‘lifter’ to just move toward the ‘notched’ shaft.
The spring tension measurement is made with the distributor in its
normal operating position (‘notched’ shaft in a vertical
position). The gram gauge should be horizontal and in line with the
spring. Perhaps the most significant point to be made in servicing
the ‘UNISPARKER’ is that if you treat it like a fine watch
it should give excellent service. The system is very conservative
in battery power; and, even if the engine is stopped with switch
‘on’, no power is consumed, because the points are normally
open.

The coil generally used with the ‘UNISPARKER’ is the
ATWATER KENT SYSTEM TYPE-K. This model of coil also seems to be the
one most often seen at flea markets and shows. The Type-K coil is
approximately 8’L x4’W x 3’H. On the top there is an
‘ON/OFF’ switch and a contactor labeled, ‘START’.
The START contactor is used to start an engine, assuming it is at
the right position in one of its cylinders and the last time the
engine was stopped one remembered to choke the engine just before
it stopped rotating. This will suck a charge of gasoline into the
cylinders. Typically, an engine will start as much as twenty four
hours later using the START contactor, provided the cylinders have
a charge of gasoline.

On the side of the TYPE-K coil one will find six binding posts
arranged as follows:

INT O O NEG 6

PLUG O O GRD

INT O O POS 6

The ‘Plug’ binding post has a domed bakelite insulator
cover. The ‘Plug’ is connected to the center tower of the
‘UNISPARKER’ distributor cap. The GRD (ground) should be
connected to the frame of the engine. Assuming the system is used
with negative ground, a wire connecting GRD and NEG 6 to the engine
frame may be employed. The POS 6 lead is connected to the POS 6
lead on the battery. An on/off switch may be inserted in the POS 6
lead if desired. One may choose to use the ‘ON/OFF’ switch
on the coil, instead of an external switch. One should maintain the
battery polarity specified on the coil. Both of the binding posts
connected to the ‘UNISPARKER’ are labeled, ‘Int’.
The two ‘Int’ binding posts are connected to the
‘UNISPARKER’ using two fourteen gauge stranded, insulated
wires twisted together, the same way as old time lamp cord. This is
most important and the manufacturer warns it is essential, to avoid
damage to the system. The exact reason for

twisting the ‘Int’ wires together is not stated, but one
could assume it has something to do with circuit electrical
resonance, or it provides the necessary capacitance across the
points. It should be noted that there is no external condensor
(capacitor) across the points in this system and one should not add
one thinking it will improve the point life or electrical
performance. The ‘UNISPARKER’ points are tungsten, not
platinum, and one should not file or attempt to clean them.
Tungsten has a dark gray color and, unless or for some reason the
points are grossly pitted, it is best to leave them alone. One of
the frustrating characteristics of tungsten is that its surface
resistance has to be broken down by a voltage often as high as
twenty volts. This means that sometimes a set of tungsten points
that hasn’t been used for a long time will seem not to pass
sufficient current to produce a strong spark when first used.
Typically, this problem will go away after a few contact closures,
so it is wise not to try to clean the points until they have had a
chance to operate a few times. The ’20 volt’ contact
resistance is normally overcome in a six volt system because the
inductive kick of the coil raises the voltage well above six volts
across the points.

It should be noted that the number of ‘notches’ in the
distributor indicates the number of cylinders the engine may have.
A single cylinder engine can use any of the multiple cylinder
engine ‘UNISPARKERS’. A three cylinder ‘UNISPARKER’
will have three ‘notches’ 120 degrees apart. A four
cylinder ‘UNISPARKER’ will have four ‘notches’ 90
degrees apart. The four cylinder ‘UNISPARKER’ can be used
for a two cylinder two-cycle engine if you use two spark out-puts
180 degrees apart. A four cycle two cylinder engine with the
crankshaft arranged at 180 degrees will require using two spark
out-puts 90 degrees apart. A two-cylinder four cycle engine with
the cranks on the same side of the crankshaft will require that

the spark outputs are placed 180 degrees apart. One must not
forget to insure the correct distributor shaft rotational speed and
firing order for the number of cylinders in the engine; and to
ground any spark outputs not used in a given configuration, to
protect the coil from excessively high voltage due to no spark plug
load. It should be noted that slow speed rotation of the
‘UNISPARKER’ does not change the spark output because the
rate and duration of closure of the points is controlled by the
action of

the ‘lifter’ return spring on the ‘lifter’ when
it is forced off the ‘notched’ shaft. This clever design
avoids the need for cranking the engine at a high rate of speed or
the need for an ‘impulse’ coupling.

The ‘UNISPARKER’ remained in production for
approximately 30 years, essentially unchanged. This speaks well of
its attributes and customer acceptance. It is hoped the above
material will clear up some of the mystery surrounding this unique
and remarkable device.

 

[Studeous]

On 1/21/2022 at 4:24 PM, 60FlatTop said:

Two seater. Maybe an Us We Go.

Indeed.

[Walt G]

thanks to Dave for all the information on how to get the car sorted wire wise and perhaps to run without destroying or cooking anything. Give credit where it is due people!

[dibarlaw]

Thanks Dave!

 As a collector of Atwater Kent radios and memorabilia I have several AK ignition components. Their build quality always impressed me. I never did get into their operation. This gives me valuable insight to the operation of the Unisparker system.

[Jim Mead]

I’m with Walt. Later today I hope to reach out to the Pioneer owner and Thank Dave for his efforts. I have all of the components to get the O-We-Go back to its proper A-K ignition, currently using a H-D 22.5 degree timer. Wasted spark. I need an A-K 22.5 CCW distributor center shaft. Can you spell hen’s teeth ?

[60FlatTop]

14 minutes ago, Jim Mead said:

Can you spell hen’s teeth ?

Old guys mention hen's teeth. It is 10 AM and I would be hard pressed to come up with a hen for supper much less teeth.

[Dandy Dave]

6 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Old guys mention hen's teeth. It is 10 AM and I would be hard pressed to come up with a hen for supper much less teeth.

We talked about hens teeth all the while on the farm. Never did find any when we were youngsters. 😁 

[markus2]

Many thanks for Dave answer, Atwater ignition system is a bit mysterious to me...
On my Atwater picture above, is the "A" could be the positive to the battery, there isn't any mention on the wood box about + and - connections.
Hi Jim, great to meet you here, what is the "H-D 22.5 degree timer" you are talking about ?
Is it another ignition system on you fabulous 0-We-Go cyclecar ?

Here comes the pictures of the timer  

Edited March 5, 2022 by markus2 (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Wow! THANK YOU Dave!

I learned some things today that I had not run into before. I may never yet need to know these things, however, just having read your excellent descriptions gives me satisfaction. And if I do run into something? Or maybe do enough work on my gasoline carriage, I might alter my plans? I have a beginning.

Thank you.

[Dandy Dave]

You guys give me too much credit. I've worked on some of these early systems before and knew where to find the information and post it here. Knowing where to find information is 99% of the battle. Of course growing up with a lot of old timers that passed on info and were kind enough to let me hang around and figure things out on my own helped a lot. This old tech has been lost as the generation that created it has passed away. It is good some of us retain old books and info on this stuff or it would have been lost forever, or left to reverse engineering. Dandy Dave! 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Here. The way it should be hooked up. The post with the yellow wire will go to the grounding post on a Magneto if you have one. Otherwise just ground it to the block. "To cap" feeds the rotor to the spark plugs. Any more questions? 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[markus2]

Many many thanks Dave for your answer.
I will fix all wires regarding your advise and hope to be able to start in the coming days that 2cyl. Monarch engine of my Pioneer 1912 cyclecar ! Best regards
 

[hddennis]

1 hour ago, markus2 said:

Many many thanks Dave for your answer.
I will fix all wires regarding your advise and hope to be able to start in the coming days that 2cyl. Monarch engine of my Pioneer 1912 cyclecar ! Best regards
 

markus2, while your re-wiring why don't you acquire the proper period correct cloth covered wire and get rid of that ugly incorrect plastic garbage.

 

Howard Dennis

[markus2]

Just got the car in Belgium since a few days ago from USA and of course I will remove these ugly wires to get the car more "original".
I only like "unrestored" or minimum restored car. Even if I'm buying cars over restored, I remove those ugly "new painting" or "new leather seats" etc and do a vintage patina to make them the way I like, aged. I will do this on the Pioneer as well as soon all fixed and ready to run. As an example, this is how my 1921 Amilcar is looking now for example... Even the engine is fully restored inside, but outside is unrestored look.

Edited March 5, 2022 by markus2 (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Always glad to help out. Actually all you needed was a Thomas mechanic as they used the A-K Unispark system also to start it and then were switched to mag to save the batteries.

 

There is something to be said for the patina on older cars that have not been fully restored. They also turn a lot of heads when they are at a show or on tour. The more I know the better I like them in their working cloths. Dandy Dave!

[wayne sheldon]

Funny how things go around.

About twenty years ago, I almost bought (probably?) that Pioneer cyclecar! We were looking for a two cylinder car to buy, and my wife found the red Pioneer cyclecar on ebay. It was a little more money than I was prepared to spend, and not quite what I was looking for. But if the wife likes it? Big plus!

We ended up getting something else, and I lost track of the Pioneer.

If things had gone just a bit differently? Twenty years ago it might have been me trying to sort out this ignition system! Now here we are, twenty years later, discussing it.

Not many Pioneer cyclecars around, and the same color? Almost has to be the same one.

[Jim Mead]

I think Saxon used Unisparkers too. They also were a popular Model T Ford accessory. The coils are often found at flea markets in 6 and 12 volt. I once had a man tell me that there were so many A-K coils extant because:

1.  They never wear out

2.  Every one who thinks they need a spare has one, or sells his because of 1. above ………..

[markus2]

I have these 2 others as spare parts, but as Jim says... I won't probably need them
Eventually, is there any way to check the working condition with an ammeter, or else ?

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by markus2 (see edit history)