Pierces at auction

[Restorer32]

Louis Abelove auction.  Comments?

[John_S_in_Penna]

Please provide a link.  That way, everyone will have

ready access to information and pictures, and will

be able to have a conversation.

[Dandy Dave]

Looks like this is near Utica, NY.  Here's a link. https://www.auctionzip.com/Listings/3624053.html

And another link. 

https://www.farmauctionguide.com/new-york-auctions/the-c-louis-abelove-car-collection-a-vintage-car-restorers-dream-come-true-s-949188.html

And still yet another. 

https://www.collarcityauctionsonline.com/servlet/List.do?auctionId=727

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

No, it's an online only auction.  Finishes up Nov 22nd.  Google "Collar City Auctions Abelove"  for pics of all 236 cars.

[Restorer32]

The vast majority of the cars have no titles, many have no VINs.  Parts cars or very ambitious restorations.  Over 100 Packards,  2 Pierces,  many Cadillacs.

[Dandy Dave]

20 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

No, it's an online only auction.  Finishes up Nov 22nd.  Google "Collar City Auctions Abelove"  for pics of all 236 cars.

Yes. I caught that. The third link I posted has the best info.

[58L-Y8]

Rough, mostly Northeast weathered parts cars, or as EdinMass might refer to them; "floor-sweepings".   Only a few are worth taking the time, effort and funds to revive or restore.   The Pierce-Arrows might yield some useful spare parts but not much more.

 

The most worthwhile for extremely ambitious restoration/recreation is Lot 39 & 111, a 1941 Packard 180 Sport Brougham by LeBaron and a donor 180 touring sedan as a basis to start.   The 1941 Sport Brougham by LeBaron was a catalogue series custom of which 99 were built.  It has the most elegantly proportions and desirable of any custom-bodied Packard sedan short of the 1940 Darrin Sport Sedans.

 

Lot 183 is a 1941 Packard 120 convertible sedan which would also be a worthwhile restoration project.

 

There are a thirteen 1948-'50 22nd Series Custom Eights, which are the top-line series with the nine-main-bearing 356 ci straight eight that began with the 1940 160 and 180 model year.    There are a few other pre-war 160 and 180 sedans that would be worth acquiring as parts car donors for future projects.

 

Steve

[Dandy Dave]

38 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

The vast majority of the cars have no titles, many have no VINs.  Parts cars or very ambitious restorations.  Over 100 Packards,  2 Pierces,  many Cadillacs.

Yeah. Just looked though the list. Looks like a lot were pulled from auto salvage yards after being used for parts vehicles. Not much there that turns my head. 48 Packard woody wagon would make someone a very interesting project. Item 208.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

Before you call a car "Floor Sweepings" you need a floor and some amount of car to sweep up..........most of these car no where near parts cars, never mind a project car. Hopfuly they get bought and cut up for parts and spares..........more likely.......lots of no bids and the crusher...........

[m-mman]

Ok, so I actually buy one of these things on sale day. I then just put it on my trailer or drag it away with my tow truck?

 

No! It seems that they are "allowing" for the removal of JUST 10 cars per day!!

By appointment and in order of sale by lot number. . . . . 

 

Removal: By Appointment and IN LOT ORDER OF SALE Only, Approximately 10-Cars Daily shall be removed by the Sellers Staff to the parking lot beginning Monday, November 29 and continuing Monday - Friday until all are removed. 9:00 AM - 4:00 PM Daily. No Loading Assistance once outside of building. Please Call 518-895-8150 to schedule. Please call listed haulers or send yours.

 

So, you buy a higher numbered bid car and you might have to wait 15-20 days (M-F only) to pick it up???

That's a month or longer after the sale. 

Wow, not they are going to make it easy for anyone. 

 

[mike6024]

https://www.collarcityauctionsonline.com/servlet/List.do?auctionId=727&page=info&lotId=7

 

There's 4 PA's apparently. Here is the link listing all 4. Or use the search box.

 

https://www.collarcityauctionsonline.com/servlet/List.do?filter=Pierce&Send=Search

Edited November 15, 2021 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

They are NOT Pierce Arrow's, nor are they Pierce Arrow parts cars. They are remnants of once was one a Pierce Arrow. Not much left, but some stuff may be help to others......assuming you can recover them. I have zero interest in any of them.......good luck to the bidders.

[58L-Y8]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Before you call a car "Floor Sweepings" you need a floor and some amount of car to sweep up..........most of these car no where near parts cars, never mind a project car. Hopfuly they get bought and cut up for parts and spares..........more likely.......lots of no bids and the crusher...........

Ed: 

Would these Pierce-Arrows qualify as 'dust-motes'? 

[edinmass]

Nope......”dust bunnies “!

[wayne sheldon]

These "parts/cars hoarders" have been alternately vilified and placed on pedestals since world war 2. They collectively saved thousands of rare and desirable cars for more than a half century, and in many cases provided the parts needed to restore and save hundreds of other cars.

 

In an ideal world, by the time (now?) that these hoards would be needing to be removed, the hobby should have set up some out of the way places to continue long-term storage of the better remains, and some dedicated volunteers to reasonably assess the remaining cars and parts. Somewhat realistically determine what parts may have future value, and what parts are simply too far gone or decide how many are too many, save the best and scrap the rest.

Yes, that is an idealistic vision. But if properly handled thirty to forty years ago? It could be being done today.

 

Brutally wholesale scrapping of even half these cars will lose a dozen viable engines that some future "car that shall not be named" needs in order to be repaired and preserved for future generations to see and appreciate. The preservation of body sections, interior and trim pieces, and many other mechanical parts (rear ends, gears, front axles, suspension, brakes!) could keep most cars already restored on the roads for generations to come! One by one, accidents and breakdowns will diminish the numbers of great cars that can be driven and seen. And ENJOYED! There are still hundreds, maybe thousands, of prewar cars that would be well worth being restored, provided some needed pieces are still available. There was a 1920s Auburn sedan discussed maybe a year ago in the "For Sale" section that the engine had been replaced by a later auburn engine. That car can only be properly restored IF a proper Auburn engine can be found for it. The way things are today? There could be a dozen correct engines hiding in or behind barns, some connected to lumber saws or corn huskers. Most of those lost engines today will eventually be sent to scrap, simply because there is no place for them to go to, and nobody is even glancing at them to see if maybe they are valuable.

 

However, we do not live in an ideal world. And nearly all idealists are firmly planted in personal fantasylands! Society for the past thirty plus years has been flying at breakneck speed in woefully wrong directions! If society does not change its course AND SOON!? Scrapping all these cars will not matter. In another thirty years? Most our collector cars will have been left outside to rot, or already been scavenged for usable materials.

 

What is happening to most of this particular 'collection'? And is and will be happening to many dozens of other collections (Model T Haven for one), is the foreseeable and inevitable result for our world today.

I don't like it. I do not have the means or the way to significantly change it. But I won't lose any more sleep over it. No point to do so. What the world will be facing all too soon, will make this loss look like nothing. THAT I DO lose a lot of sleep about it. And I still cannot change it.

 

Sorry. My sad rant for the month.

[1912Staver]

Wayne , I agree 100 %. I know Ed is up to his armpits in great cars and has to fight off the temptation to end up with more. But it seems that as you head West and North the old cars start to seriously dry up.  Feast or famine. And the cost of transport seems to go up by the month. Biggest cost in the West Coast city's is a place to put cars. With a housing shortage happening in many West Coast locations any place with a bit of ground and a roof is extremely expensive.

[Restorer32]

Wouldn't it be great if someone with land, money and a sympathetic zoning officer would begin buying up these hoards, placing them in a field and charging admission to folks wanting to wander around and look over these historic vehicles?  Sort of a Disneyland for gear heads. 

[Dandy Dave]

14 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Wouldn't it be great if someone with land, money and a sympathetic zoning officer would begin buying up these hoards, placing them in a field and charging admission to folks wanting to wander around and look over these historic vehicles?  Sort of a Disneyland for gear heads. 

No good in a field. Even these cars will completely deteriorate in the not far future if left outside to the elements. Put them under a roof. Up here in the rust belt what is left will be totally unsalvageable in 20 years or less.    

[Restorer32]

Better a field than the crusher.

 

[Dandy Dave]

5 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Better a field than the crusher.

 

OK. Then in a south west desert. 😉

[Restorer32]

Anyone other than me ever tour John Mahalchik's yard in New Jersey?  John lived in a very large steel teepee in the yard.  His fence was resplendent with plywood cutouts of Richard Nixon dressed as a rat.  He charged me $10 for a guided tour of his junk yard.  One of the best $10 I ever spent. 

[oldford]

14 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

In an ideal world, by the time (now?) that these hoards would be needing to be removed, the hobby should have set up some out of the way places to continue long-term storage of the better remains, and some dedicated volunteers to reasonably assess the remaining cars and parts. Somewhat realistically determine what parts may have future value, and what parts are simply too far gone or decide how many are too many, save the best and scrap the rest.

Yes, that is an idealistic vision. But if properly handled thirty to forty years ago? It could be being done today.

 

Who would you suggest is "the hobby"? I'm reminded of the old saying, "Ownership is the ultimate control." Now is your chance to save some of the world of automobile hoards by buying some of the 'more desirable' examples and build a large barn to keep them in. Then, you could give other collectors the chance to save their collections. Very admirable...

 

Frank

[Dandy Dave]

50 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Anyone other than me ever tour John Mahalchik's yard in New Jersey?  John lived in a very large steel teepee in the yard.  His fence was resplendent with plywood cutouts of Richard Nixon dressed as a rat.  He charged me $10 for a guided tour of his junk yard.  One of the best $10 I ever spent. 

I remember that Dude. He had a Locomotive there just off of the road. 

[Gunsmoke]

Enjoyed scrolling thru this carefully kept stable of what were some great cars in their day. No doubt many will sell for small money, perhaps a couple for a few thousand, likely enough overall to pay the auctioneers for their time and trouble. Wouldn't it be nice to have seen these hauled to the long abandoned Packard Factory and set up as a long term museum of relics. I'd pay for a walk thru!

[mikewest]

Louis showed me two buildings OJ f cars he owned .  It took me a long time to try and figure out what his plan was  for all these cars. He owns some good cars that will be coming out in the next auctions I'm sure. These are the sweepings. Louis was a very smart attorney and super nice man. 

[Restorer32]

Yes, Louis was a nice fellow and apparently quite a successful lawyer, yet he suffered from the same problem many of us have.  If he could be believed his wife had no idea how many cars he had and he tried to keep it that way.  Did he pass or is he just downsizing? Hopefully the former.

[mike6024]

 

https://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/19902          https://weirdnj.com/stories/personalized-properties/mahalchiks-fabulous-50-acres/

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[JACK M]

15 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

 

https://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/19902          https://weirdnj.com/stories/personalized-properties/mahalchiks-fabulous-50-acres/

 

 

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Restorer32]

Friend and I happened upon John's place while delivering a '32 Packard to a customer.  John met us at the gate.  We asked if we could look around.  He said he charged $10/head for a tour. And what a tour it was.  Long circuitous paths thru tall weeds.  He had half a dozen or so ponies that shared the field.  We were only allowed to look at what he wanted us to look at.  "These are the remains of a '36 Packard", "Don't look over there, we will get there".  "Here is a '26 Cadillac Sedan".  "Here is a stack of crates full of military surplus Harley parts".  As we progressed an intense smell attacked our senses. We came around a corner and there across our path lay a very dead pony.  "That's Bessie. Been dead about a week".  When our tour was over he refused to let us leave until we took off our shirts so he could check us for ticks. I went to the sale after he passed but did not buy a thing. I did bid on a pony skull but the auctioneer pulled it from the sale for some unknown reason.

[Restorer32]

In the one pic above, behind the old trucks are 6 aluminum airship gondolas.  John said they were from the last 6 air ships maintained by the US military.  After all, he wasn't all that far from Lakehurst.  John told us he was a fighter pilot in WWII. Quite a character.

[mike6024]

 

There's a pony. Very cute.

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Quite a few people thought these cars were all just scrap metal. Some pretty strong prices on a number of them. Yes, the 4 doors are going for peanuts,

But the higher prices tell me the buyers are not just looking for parts cars.

[Matt Harwood]

10 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Quite a few people thought these cars were all just scrap metal. Some pretty strong prices on a number of them. Yes, the 4 doors are going for peanuts,

But the higher prices tell me the buyers are not just looking for parts cars.

 

I've been looking for a 1935 Lincoln parts car for a while now. You might be surprised what I'd be willing to pay for it.

[alsancle]

On 11/16/2021 at 12:49 PM, Restorer32 said:

In the one pic above, behind the old trucks are 6 aluminum airship gondolas.  John said they were from the last 6 air ships maintained by the US military.  After all, he wasn't all that far from Lakehurst.  John told us he was a fighter pilot in WWII. Quite a character.

 

Did you buy the 40 Packard convertible coupe?

 

I see one buyer is scooping up half the cars.   There was a time when I had enough nice 54 Packard pieces,  dash, interior, exterior trim,  that buying one of those 54 Carribeans and bolting my parts on might have made a little sense.   Not anymore.

[Restorer32]

 We bought the '41 (lot 169) just so we have a cowl to fit front headers to. We have buyers for those complicated gull wing headers but we needed a car to fit them to.  Very difficult and time consuming header bows to make,  even with a body to fit them to.

[alsancle]

if you need a parts car there are some good deals.   It doesn't take too many parts to make it worthwhile.  if you are going to try to fix one of those cars,  I see nothing but misery.

[1912Staver]

I said the Morgan would be a bargain if under 10 G's , $9250.00 plus premium.

[58L-Y8]

The most worthwhile project cars are number 39 with 111, the 1941 LeBaron Sport Brougham and donor 160 on which to recreate/restore another Sport Brougham.   All it takes is knowledge, enthusiasm, vision, perseverance and very deep pockets! 

[edinmass]

Lets see.........the Pierce cars were so bad at any price.......we didn't bid. Never mind time, tolls, fuel, ect............

[alsancle]

26 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

The most worthwhile project cars are number 39 with 111, the 1941 LeBaron Sport Brougham and donor 160 on which to recreate/restore another Sport Brougham.   All it takes is knowledge, enthusiasm, vision, perseverance and very deep pockets! 

The LeBaron sport brougham Is a very interesting car, with only 99 built I believe. But also a lot of paint chrome and leather. You could spend enough money to build a very nice house in a very nice town.