A real 442 W-30

[ericisback]

Is this a real W-30?  Listed as a "442".  Thanks for any feedback:

 

 

 

https://www.classicautomall.com/vehicles/2934/1970-oldsmobile-cutlass-442

[junkyardjeff]

It has the red inner fenders a W30 is supposed to have but that is all I know.

[alsancle]

For that amount of money, there needs to be a build sheet Specing the W 30.

[John_S_in_Penna]

The onus is always on the seller to prove that his

claims are genuine.  As you know, this is especially true

if certain claims would make a car more valuable.

Ask the seller, or the consignment auto-mall, to PROVE

that it is a genuine 4-4-2 and a W-30.  

 

They owe it to any prospective buyer;  and if you aren't

that buyer, their time will be well spent, having gathered

the proof for the next person who comes along.

[Pfeil]

Need to ask Rocketrader or Joe Padavano. Look them up on this site.

[SC38dls]

I believe all W-30's were built in Lansing MI. You can check build location from the VIN and the cowl tag data plate. So if it's not a Lansing built car it's not a W-30.
.
A 4-speed W-30 would have manual disc brakes since the cam was different and didn't build up enough vacuum to support the power booster on power brakes. And I'm not 100% sure, but I think the 4-speed W-30 would not have A/C

 

In 72 an X in the vin would show the W30 engine but not in 70 or 71. 
 

 

[1937hd45]

How rare are the 442 Convertibles? 

[Terry Bond]

The description indicates it's a W30 engine, but not correct for this car. That makes it a "clone" in my estimation. 

Terry

[TexRiv_63]

You definitely need very detailed documentation, lots of clones and fakes out there.

[joe_padavano]

The red inner fenders are repros. A/C was not available with a manual trans in the W30 because MT engines got the 328/328 deg cam that didn't produce enough vacuum.

[8E45E]

MCACN demands proof of originality before it can be entered into their annual show which is a week from now.

 

Craig

[John_S_in_Penna]

Don't you love the seller's hyperbole?

"The word Cutlass is defined as a short curvy

one-edged sword that was used by sailors..."

Such verbage doesn't help the buyer in any way.

 

It would be just as useless as, "Fred Duesenberg

was born in Smithtown, Long Island to Scottish-

American parents.  His paternal grandfather was

a goatherd in the old country..." 

[1937hd45]

Where was brother August born?

[Steve Moskowitz]

As Joe points out this car was not born a 4-4-2.  If you read the entire description they come right out and say it is not an original W-30.  Despite the flowery language which they have a right to use if they are so inclined they ad does seem to try and give an honest description of the car.  Nice car but a clone pure and simple.  As Joe will tell you, as we both own one, a W-30 car will light the tires up in a hurry.  My car has its original red-line tires so I am very careful with it!

[ericisback]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

MCACN demands proof of originality before it can be entered into their annual show which is a week from now.

 

Craig

I will be at that show. Is there typically any of these cars for sale at the show?

[ericisback]

Thanks to all for the feedback.

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, ericisback said:

I will be at that show. Is there typically any of these cars for sale at the show?

 

I don't know about that particular show, but 

Oldsmobile 4-4-2's are extremely common these days.

"Desirable" cars get restored and preserved, so their

numbers flourish.  There are currently over 30 Oldsmobile

4-4-2's on the Hemmings website alone.  Are you looking

specifically for the W-30 option?

[ericisback]

8 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

I don't know about that particular show, but 

Oldsmobile 4-4-2's are extremely common these days.

"Desirable" cars get restored and preserved, so their

numbers flourish.  There are currently over 30 Oldsmobile

4-4-2's on the Hemmings website alone.  Are you looking

specifically for the W-30 option?

Yes, looking for a restored, documented, manual. 

[Jim Skelly]

6 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

How rare are the 442 Convertibles? 

Olds made 110 W-30 convertibles for 1971; '70 and '72 were around the same number, and these were a bit more common in '68 and '69; not sure about '67, but none of these was ever a common sighting when new; the hardtops were somewhat more common 

[1937hd45]

8 minutes ago, Jim Skelly said:

Olds made 110 W-30 convertibles for 1971; '70 and '72 were around the same number, and these were a bit more common in '68 and '69; not sure about '67, but none of these was ever a common sighting when new; the hardtops were somewhat more common 

 

 

Thanks, I'll ask the lady down the street with one if she knew that, 110 of anything isn't a lot. Bob 

[ericisback]

31 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

 

 

Thanks, I'll ask the lady down the street with one if she knew that, 110 of anything isn't a lot. Bob 

Tell her I will buy it from her, if she’s ready to get rid of it. 

[8E45E]

6 hours ago, ericisback said:

I will be at that show. Is there typically any of these cars for sale at the show?

Yes, some cars MAY be for sale, but transactions are VERY discrete, and not advertised.  If you are interested in a particular car, it is up to you to strike up a conversation with the owner and make a deal off-site if it is actually available.

 

Craig

Edited November 12, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[zepher]

8 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

How rare are the 442 Convertibles? 

 

A very good friend of mine has a real 442 W30 convertible.

His is the factory green paint with white interior.

Wish I had some pictures to post.

He just moved and I have not visited his new place, when I get the chance I'll have to snap a few pics.

 

I should add that he has owned the car for at least 30 years.

Edited November 12, 2021 by zepher (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, ericisback said:

Tell her I will buy it from her, if she’s ready to get rid of it. 

 

I think she plans to take it with her. 

[Stude Light]

8 hours ago, 8E45E said:

MCACN demands proof of originality before it can be entered into their annual show which is a week from now.

Two W-30s heading to MCACN. The first is a 1967 Cutlass w/ 442 and W30 options, yellow with yellow interior which is probably one-of-one offered in that color combination. Has a stunning original interior and only 3200 original documented miles. The second is a 1966 F-85 w/442 and W30 options in gold with gold interior having the tripower setup and is #8 of the 54 cars made by the factory. You can see them both up close at the show.

 

[8E45E]

I am looking forward to seeing them!

 

Don't forget to check out our Studebaker display at MCACN.  Six Avantis, one in each color offered in 1963, Eric's '63 Rose Mist R2 Lark Regal in the lobby, and Ed George Jr's '64 R1 in the 'Barn Finds' and more!!

 

Craig

[EmTee]

I knew someone who had a '71 W-30 convertible back in the late 70's.  It was black and gold with the Turbo 400 and H&H Hurst shifter and was a real beautiful car when he bought it (circa '76).  He installed an aftermarket cam and used to race it in the 1/8 mile.  Sadly, that car was driven hard and put away wet.  I never knew at the time just how rare that car was, but certainly the W-30 still made it unique.  I lost track of it in the early '80s.  I hope it was passed on to someone who realized what it was and it still survives...

[joe_padavano]

14 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

I don't know about that particular show, but 

Oldsmobile 4-4-2's are extremely common these days.

Most of those are Faux Four Twos. Consider that in most years, Olds built about 1/10 as many 442s as Pontiac built GTOs.

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 minute ago, joe_padavano said:

Most of those are Faux Four Twos. 

 

Clever term, Joe!  I never heard that term before.

 

That there are so many imitations shows the danger

of artificially enhancing a car.  I'd dare say that most

of those cars for sale as 4-4-2's aren't identified as

being imitations.  I'll bet some buyers are being deceived,

and maybe the sellers are deceived themselves.

[8E45E]

9 minutes ago, EmTee said:

I knew someone who had a '71 W-30 convertible back in the late 70's.  It was black and gold with the Turbo 400 and H&H Hurst shifter and was a real beautiful car when he bought it (circa '76).  He installed an aftermarket cam and used to race it in the 1/8 mile.  Sadly, that car was driven hard and put away wet.  I never knew at the time just how rare that car was, but certainly the W-30 still made it unique.  I lost track of it in the early '80s.  I hope it was passed on to someone who realized what it was and it still survives...

Me too!
 

Every year, MCACN has their 'Invitational Displays' where they feature a certain muscle car with its own special section.  The one for W31 Oldsmobiles was in 2018:  https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/general-discussion-33/oldsmobile-w-31-invitational-showcase-2018-mcacn-121029/

 

https://www.hagerty.com/media/market-trends/coolest-cars-at-mcacn/  (scroll down)

 

Craig

Edited November 12, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history)