1938 Studebaker front end repair.

[SC38dls]

I will take all the help I can. Come on down to Aiken. 

[SC38dls]

Saturday. Had chores to do early so have only been at this for about an hour. This right front was bent up so much none of my wood would fit the dents. I used the round somewhat hard rubber head and just tried to get it back into shape so I could work on smaller dents individually. Long way to go but I love the porta power!  I can’t believe how well it moves the metal back towards the original shape. 
Original shape and after some work pics 

[mike6024]

I once took a block of wood and cut a curved edge onto it, and use that to push with. The curvature cut onto the wood sort of match the curve of the undented side. Sounds like you already doing that sort of thing, using wood...

 

 

[SC38dls]

Sunday- day 3, not sure you can see much change but I spent about 4 hours using the hammer and dolly. I can see it’s working slowly but surely getting it back in shape. 
pic when I began today and then when I finished. Shoulder isn’t what it use to be, time for a hot shower. 
dave s 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[Fossil]

Coming along nicely. 👍

[JustDave]

Just a suggestion,the closer you get to the shape you want try putting 2 or 3 layers of tape on the face of the hammer,it will help shape the metal and stretch it less,also after you push o n the dent try and massage the creases around the outside of the dent it will make the metal shape a lot stronger

[SC38dls]

It’s Friday Benny! (Those old enough to remember Paul Harvey will know the phase) 

spent about four hours with the hammer and dolly today. The should is sore so I’ll get back at it tomorrow. I’m satisfied with the results. It just takes time and patience, something I wife says “is seldom found in women and never found in men”. 
Before pic then after pic below. 
 

Edited October 1, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Great Progress indeed. Many people who "bang the dents 0ut" with a hammer, even if it is proper body hammer do not realize how important it is to have a steel back up block on the other side of the sheet metal you are hammering into ( inside to outside like you  are or the opposite in some cases)  makes a big difference  .

[60FlatTop]

You are steeping yourself in automotive history there.

 

At the time your car was built there were still some first time drivers getting off their wagons and navigating those pontoon fenders into the barn by feel.

 

In a lot of small towns the blacksmith was the mender of steel. He would pound those compound curves back out but the results could be a little lumpy.

 

Alfred P. Sloan was trying to help the dealer network by building up a used car department as a profit center. Previously used cars were destroyed by "the company man" to eliminate competition for new car sales.

 

Bringing values to the used car market was hard with those lumpy repair jobs. So Sloan and Earle came up with the idea of embellishing those curves with chrome plated die cast that was sure to break in a collision. That gave a perfectly straight line to distract the eye from the poor metalwork. And a whole new way of styling evolved.

 

So when you reach the "good enough for a blacksmith" point you will be going a step or two more. That's the time to remember what Sloan and Earle did. The next big step came around 1960 with fiberglass. You can remember my smiling Dutch uncle Frank Schwann who ran a body shop. My dad said"when they invented fiberglass your Uncle Frank started smiling and hasn't stopped yet."

 

Some of the undocumented history of bodtwork.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

I’ve watched blacksmiths do terrible work and others do magnificent jobs. We had horses in the barn for 30 years. The smithy that did beautiful work made hinges for are stall doors when I built the barn. They were a work of art. I should try to get him to work on the fenders. I will try to do a better job than the old time blacksmiths you were talking about but the jury is still out on how I do. 
dave s 

[60FlatTop]

Under the spreading chestnut tree the broken Studie lies". Got a ring to it.

[TAKerry]

Looking really good Dave. One tap at a time. 'And now you know the rest of the story'.

[1932 plymouth pb sedan]

I love following this thread, it is the passion that keeps this hobby alive for many people.

Keep up the good work Dave and she will be back on the road before you know it. 

Billy

[Gary_Ash]

Taking the fender off and running it through a big English wheel would do wonders for that fender.  There are also small, hand-held wheels, used to be used on early car fenders.  If wheeling isn't possible, Wray Schelin at ProShaper.com would say to put a rounded end of a dolly on the back side of a low place and use a heavy slapper with very light taps on the front side.  When you hit the right spot with the slapper, you'll hear a solid "tink, tink, tink" and the metal will move up without too much stretching.  The slapper will make small shiny spots where it hits the sheet metal with the dolly directly under it.  See Wray's video as he uses a slapper and shrinking disk, starting about 24 minutes in:  

 

[SC38dls]

Saturday - This is a pic from the outside looking toward the radiator of the right fender. It’s amazing how well it has come back into shape. I really need to thank you guys for telling me about the porta power and how to do all of this. I’ve replaced sheet metal before but most of that was cut out the rust and weld on new flat metal or preformed metal. I will try the slapped from the video on the smaller dents. 
Walt is sending me a sanding/painting instructions after Hersey, hopefully I will have these dents ready for that part. It’s been fun doing this. I may just have to look around for another project after this is done! 
dave s 

I had said it was the left fender. Frank caught my error. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

You are at the point where you should remove all the paint on your work area, inside and out. A couple of hours with paint stripper. Keep abrasives to a absolute minimum, you don't want to remove metal or leave scratches. Coarse steel wool works well for the last residue from the stripper. From this point onward , hammer and dolly only, and as Gary points out above , light blows from the hammer and only directly on metal supported with the dolly from below. 

Also your hammer face and dolly surface should be as free from scratches as possible. They will transfer to the fender. Good metal men prepare their tools to a very smooth { almost polished } surface. And then carefully look after them in between use. No bumping against other tools or other rough handling. The curve of the dolly should always be a bit tighter than the curve of the fender. You don't want to form any creases or stretching. I have several different dolly's and over the length of a job will often use at least 4 or 5 of them to get just the right shape. 

You will get used to the sort of light blows and solid feel / sound of the correct use of the hammer and dolly. If anything the arm strength holding the dolly is greater than the correct impact of the hammer. Yes it is tiring , but you will be amazed with the results. It takes time and a bit of a knack but eventually you will wonder why anyone uses anything more than tiny amounts of bondo . Really good metal guys use almost nothing but glaze putty during the wet sanding, by the time the surface is ready for primer it is 99 44/100 a correctly shaped, smooth surface.

Disclaimer, did this for a living for a few years in the 1980's and a few jobs a year for myself and friends since. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Well come on over and you can do another job just to keep your hand in it. God knows I need all the help i can get. I’ll even supply beer and food!  
It really is amazing how well the light tapping gets the metal to move. You hit the nail on the head with it being tiring especially when I need one shoulder replaced and the other needs the tendons reattached again. But it’s fun, so I limit myself to a few hours a day with a break day every two or three days. I’ll get it done it is just going to take time. I was going to try the grille for fit today but it looks like early next week will work better. 
Thamks for all the tips. 
dave s 

Edited October 2, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[Bloo]

One thing you didn't ask, but I want to point out is that a dolly needs to be HEAVY to work correctly. In recent times I have seen cheap hammer and dolly sets in which the dollies are HOLLOW. Always get solid metal ones.

[1912Staver]

I agree 100 %, I am in my 60's and I expect at least 1/2 my hammers and dollies are older than I am. A few relatively light , but for special shapes. Most are relatively heavy. I always keep an eagle eye out for good ones at swap meet's. The technology hasn't changed  since the 1940's when many of the good tools were made. Snap on and Martin still make good ones but pretty pricy new.

 

Unfortunately Dave I am up here in Western Canada behind the U.S. Customs COVID border wall. Missing all the Fall Washington State Swap Meets. It's starting to get painful. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

I agree, my wife’s uncle owned a body shop and her aunt gave me some of his tools when he passed. So I have a good set of hammers and about 8 or 9 different dollies. That’s what makes my shoulders sore!  
dave s 

[Gary_Ash]

I forgot to mention that when using the dolly and slapper to raise the low spots that you need to push up hard on the dolly.  I think that is so that when the slapper hits the outer surface, the dolly recoils and bumps the sheet metal up.  The slapper assures having a large surface rather than risking the edge of a hammer face hitting the sheet metal.

[Frank DuVal]

9 hours ago, SC38DLS said:

Saturday - This is a pic from the outside looking toward the radiator of the left fender. I

Looks like the RIGHT fender to me.😉 Right and left are form the drivers perspective on car parts. Very important when ordering parts!!!!!

 

Looking good!👍

[Frank DuVal]

9 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Really good metal guys use almost nothing but glaze putty during the wet sanding

The polyester glazing putty, not that red lacquer stuff of 30+ years ago. The lacquer stuff cracks if if fills anything larger than a sand scratch.

 

The two part glazing putty is good stuff, but so is a light coat of modern polyester filler (Bondo is a brand name, and there are other good ones out there).

[SC38dls]

Frank you are right it is the right fender. I was looking at the fender from the front instead of thinking about it correctly. I’ll edit the post. 
Thanks

dave s 

Edited October 3, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[Bloo]

It's probably too early to talk about bondo (or whatever you want to call your favorite filler). We have only just begun to talk about getting the paint off, and haven't touched on body files, or guide coats of primer (or lacquer or whatever) to help flatten the ripples out. Nor have we talked about something nobody wants to talk about.... crown.

 

When it comes time for filler, and hopefully not very much of it, a trick I have used is to put some fiberglass dye in the filler about the same color as the car. Yes you are playing chemist at that point. Yes it might ruin the job and cause a do-over, but It never did for me. The filler was always real thin so I don't know what would happen if it was thick. I don't do this kind of work much. You have been warned. If it works, you wont see bondo pink every time you get a rock chip.

 

[Fossil]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

put some fiberglass dye in the filler

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

you wont see bondo pink every time you get a rock chip.

Sounds reasonable to me whatever that's worth. 

[SC38dls]

I will be going to get sand paper (wet type I assume) in various grades, stripper, and filler. I was curious about a good brand and type of filler. Any help will be appreciated as I have no idea what to use. The last time I remember using filler was almost 60 years ago, on my 57 Desoto. The crowns of the headlights were completely rusted thru. So my buddy and me filled them in with steel wool then about an inch of bondo. I bought a gallon of porch  and deck enamel and 2 four inch brushes from E j Korvette’s (the fore runner to Kmart) and  we painted the car black. Looked ok from 15 feet or so. I don’t plan on that solution to the 38. 
dave s 

Edited October 3, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Another part of the fender I’m at a loss on how to fix. Two pics below may not be clear enough for you to see what the problem is so I’ll try to explain it the best I can. There is what I call a bead at the edge of the grille almost like they wrapped the metal around a copper line to make it smooth. Then it straightens out so the grille can be bolted to it. I don’t have a English wheel (maybe time to get one) so I’ve been trying using angle iron in the rounded shape to press in the line behind the flange the grille bolts on. It’s improved it but still needs more work. Is an English wheel the only way to get it right? 
Thanks

dave s 

Edited October 3, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[edinmass]

As you can see.......I haven’t commented on how to fix it..........body work and tin knocking are NOT my thing. I do have a much easier solution to fixing it.........it involves a car trailer, restoration shop, and a checkbook. I’m glad your taking it on yourself. Truth is, with a bit of help from others here, taking you time, you should be able to get it across the finish line. I have found if I set my mind to it, I can fix anything. Sometimes I wish I hadn’t tried! 😎

[Bloo]

It's hard to tell from the pics. If it is a bead edge you need to bring up straight, you might be able to knock it out from the inside with something like a tire iron, or use one for a dolly. When it is getting close you might need to weld a piece of steel dowel of the correct inside radius.to the tip of a bar or tire iron.

 

If there is a factory crease from the outside next to the bead, and it is up too high or distorted in spots, you might need to knock parts of it down using something like a large screwdriver to tap on, while someone else holds the steel-dowel-on-a-bar dolly.

 

 

[Gary_Ash]

You might get into that corner with a "caulking iron" as used on old wooden boats or for packing lead into an iron drain pipe joint.  The end/edge might need to be ground to shape.  Could be used to drive from the inside against a dolly on the outside or vice versa.  Might need a helper unless you have three arms.  Just remember to listen for "tink, tink, tink".

 

 

Boat versions

 

Plumbing tools:  https://www.mephistotools.com/caulking-irons.htm

 

 

Dave, you must have noticed that your compatriots here are full of (good?) advice, but no one has rushed to your house to help with your tasks.  Sorry about that.  Good luck!

[SC38dls]

Gary, I’ve definitely noticed. Even with the offer of food and beer! 😃

[Oregon Desert model 45]

After a lot of hammering you are likely to have some stretched areas that will not go away.  A disk shrinker is an easy and fairly inexpensive solution.   I bought a 9" shrinking disk from Wolfesmetalfab for around $40 2 years ago and got a lot of practice using it on my Buick sheetmetal.  Another helpful tip I learned from this video was to use Dykem layout blue to see the high and low spots so I know where to aim the hammer. 

 

 

[JACK M]

Great video.

I often wish I had the patience for good body work.

[edinmass]

No worries Dave......by the time you finish, you will have established the skill set! 👍👍👍😏

[mike6024]

 

I think you will want to get some of this flexible foam sanding blocks and the adhesive roll paper Norton sand paper rolls. It is like a memory foam material and can conform to curves.

 

Sand paper rolls, all different grits available, 2.75 inch wide, this happens to be 320 grit https://www.ebay.com/itm/201555361848

 

Dura Blocks, complete set $55   https://www.ebay.com/itm/203504781429

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/paulfrancispaint/m.html   

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/autobodynow/m.html

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Actually, K Mart was an outgrowth of the S S Kresge company and not related to E J Korvette.

[SC38dls]

Mike I will check it out., thanks. 
Hudsy I was just saying it was prior to KMart, I had no idea where Kmart started. EJ Korvette was just a cheap discount department store in Elmhurst Illinoisan St Charles Rd and Rt 83. We use to buy 45 records there, some of you may not know what they are depending on your age, as they were cheaper than the local record shop. 
 

Edited October 4, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

That beaded edge is going to be tricky. It might come down to getting it as close as possible and using some filler. I like the aluminum filled stuff.   More expensive than straight bondo, and a bit harder to shape/ sand but more durable. If you get the bead 80% - 90% close a bit of filler isn't going to hurt. Lead would be best but good results take a lot of practice, plus some serious health risks.

[edinmass]

Half the beaded edges of the cars at Pebble are 95 percent filler........