Led conversion

[Mattml430]

I wanted to try some LED’s to lower the power consumption a bit. 
so is this the same as using Phillips head screws. 
I actually hate the look of them when they’re On and also when they’re off and you can see them through the glass. I much prefer the old yellow look on our vintage cars. 
But I do like that they use almost no power and put out so much better light. I’m going to try them for a few night drives and see how they go. I like driving during the day with at least my cowl lights and Parker’s On. It’s a bit safer in today’s traffic. I actually think I need an amber flashing beacon on the roof to keep me from being hit sometimes. 
Id love to hear what you guys think and if you’ve given them a go. 

[Minibago]

Yes of course LED globes light better

Yes they use much less power

Yes of course this is soooo much worse than phillips head screws.  😱

 

😂😂😂

[Mattml430]

12 minutes ago, Minibago said:

Yes of course LED globes light better

Yes they use much less power

Yes of course this is soooo much worse than phillips head screws.  😱

 

😂😂😂

Shit!! 😬Doug and Ron will ban me from the forum. 😂🤣

[gundog99]

A great idea, I looked into fitting LED,  but at the moment they are illegal in the UK unless they are specified for the vehicle light fittings.

[alsancle]

I think that most "modern" upgrades to antique cars become counter productive 20 years down the road when the "new" becomes old and you have a mongrel.

 

However,  I'm totally cool with upgrading the lighting in a non obvious way that casts more light.   For the most part I avoid being out on the road in the dark with an old car, but sometimes it can't be avoided.

[Minibago]

Seriously though, todays traffic requires us to make things as safe as possible.

I say, “see and be seen”

Not all will agree

 

What is the saying?

You can please all of the people some of the time

You can please some of the people all of the time

You cannot please all of the people all of the time

 

However, you can please yourself and put up with the critics.

 

Whoever has an original car “As Factory Built” please step forward.

 

[jari12]

You can't beat safety with any other argument.  You need to be able to see the 'roos on the road at night!  Besides, they go well with the alternator.

[Sasha39]

Looking good Matt, the way I tackle a problem like this is to ask the question: if they had Led globes back in the day would the Dodge Bros. have used them? My guess is anything that made their cars safer they would have gone with it.

What are he specs for the globes?

[jpage]

Take a look at Paul Shin's Model A videos on Youtube. He's found some LED bulbs that have the yellowish light, which looks more period correct but still has the brightness that you're looking for. I think the guy that was selling them is a Norman Wells. I don't have any issues with certain upgrades like bulbs, how often are the lights on anyway!

 

[Ron Lawson]

Matt the LEDs might be okay for your DB as you have high /low beam globes The 2249 Seniors only have a single filament globe with dull and duller settings so how would an LED globe go being fed via a resistor 

[nearchoclatetown]

Next will be disc brakes. Kids!!

[Mattml430]

7 hours ago, Sasha39 said:

Looking good Matt, the way I tackle a problem like this is to ask the question: if they had Led globes back in the day would the Dodge Bros. have used them? My guess is anything that made their cars safer they would have gone with it.

What are he specs for the globes?

I have used these ones but I’m still waiting on the H4’s to turn up and the shorter BA15. So at this stage I’ve only fitted the Taller BA15 to the cowl, brake and headlight Parker’s. I have upgraded my headlights to H4’s previously. 

[Mattml430]

6 hours ago, Ron Lawson said:

Matt the LEDs might be okay for your DB as you have high /low beam globes The 2249 Seniors only have a single filament globe with dull and duller settings so how would an LED globe go being fed via a resistor 

I’m not sure how that would go Ron, I know you can get 240v dimmable but not sure about 12v ones. 

[Mark Gregush]

7 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said:

Next will be disc brakes. Kids!!

Model T guys are already on that one.

[Ron Lawson]

Mark I am trying to keep my DB 2249 Senior Touring as close to original as possible Heck It's still got the original air in the tyres  

[Ron Lawson]

2 hours ago, Mattml430 said:

I’m not sure how that would go Ron, I know you can get 240v dimmable but not sure about 12v ones. 

I am not fussed mate By the time I finish this old tart I will be too old to drive her

 

[idrjoe_sandiego]

Matt-

No question- safety first.  I don't know about Oz, but in San Diego most drivers are preoccupied with texting and earbuds. Anything you do to wake 'em up is a good idea. Kudos to those nice bright LED's.

 

My '29 DA Phaeton has 35-50W halogens on the original BAY15D base. They are nice and bright, but not like your LED's. On my '29 DA Sedan, I have the original 6V (#1000) BAY15D headlamps. You need a match to see if they are lit.

 

If anyone knows of any LED headlight bulbs on the BAY15D base for sale, please come forward.

 

P.S. I love the color scheme on your Victory 6 !

[Minibago]

Further to the “Roo” comment for those not lucky enough to live in Australia.

 

Our cars are called “Dodge” for a reason.

 

 

 

 

[idrjoe_sandiego]

Found 'em. http://www.logolites.com/products/led-headlights/

LED headlamps: direct replacement for 1929-1935 Dodge Brothers.

Features: Dual Hi/Lo Beam / Pos or Neg ground available /6V-12V

For use with Generator or Alternator/ Draws minimal current

Results look like Matt's but no socket changes needed. Focus is same as OEM.

 

Downside is price --around $30 each.

 

[Mark Gregush]

6 Volt Negative Ground Chassis - Automotive LED Lights

They also have positive ground type too, but many are both.

[ply33]

2 hours ago, Minibago said:

Further to the “Roo” comment for those not lucky enough to live in Australia.

 

Our cars are called “Dodge” for a reason.

 

On a business trip to Australia a few decades ago I noticed that many cars, not just 4x4 or trucks, had “brush guards” installed. I asked one of the people at the site why that was and he didn’t know what I was talking about. So we walked out to the parking log and I pointed out the brush guards on a sedan and his response was “Oh, roo bars”. A new term for me.

 

2 hours ago, idrjoe_sandiego said:

Found 'em. http://www.logolites.com/products/led-headlights/

LED headlamps: direct replacement for 1929-1935 Dodge Brothers.

Features: Dual Hi/Lo Beam / Pos or Neg ground available /6V-12V

For use with Generator or Alternator/ Draws minimal current

Results look like Matt's but no socket changes needed. Focus is same as OEM.

 

Downside is price --around $30 each.

 

This is the first new post I noticed just after getting home from one of our rare night drives in my 1933 Plymouth which is equipped with Ba15d base quartz-halogen bulbs. I was reminded on the drive how yellow those look compared to more modern cars with HID or LED headlights.

 

I bought some Ba15d LED replacements that looked very much like those on your link but from a different vendor and could not get them to focus in my 1933 Plymouth. They are still sitting on my work bench waiting for me to figure out how to proceed with them. If you have installed the ones from this vendor and they focus well in a headlight assembly designed for a Mazda 1110 or Mazda 1000 bulb I would like to hear about it.

[Mattml430]

5 hours ago, ply33 said:

 

On a business trip to Australia a few decades ago I noticed that many cars, not just 4x4 or trucks, had “brush guards” installed. I asked one of the people at the site why that was and he didn’t know what I was talking about. So we walked out to the parking log and I pointed out the brush guards on a sedan and his response was “Oh, roo bars”. A new term for me.

 

This is the first new post I noticed just after getting home from one of our rare night drives in my 1933 Plymouth which is equipped with Ba15d base quartz-halogen bulbs. I was reminded on the drive how yellow those look compared to more modern cars with HID or LED headlights.

 

I bought some Ba15d LED replacements that looked very much like those on your link but from a different vendor and could not get them to focus in my 1933 Plymouth. They are still sitting on my work bench waiting for me to figure out how to proceed with them. If you have installed the ones from this vendor and they focus well in a headlight assembly designed for a Mazda 1110 or Mazda 1000 bulb I would like to hear about it.

It will be interesting to see how the H4’s go. Once I have them fitted I’ll take it out for a night drive and take a pic of the beam spread. 
 

[gundog99]

I have fitted all halogen bulbs in my 2249 Senior instead of tungstens, they use much less wattage and are brighter than the original, but i except LED would be much better. 

http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/

[idrjoe_sandiego]

Quote from Ply33:

"I bought some Ba15d LED replacements that looked very much like those on your link but from a different vendor and could not get them to focus in my 1933 Plymouth." 

 

Ply33 makes a valid point about focusing LED lamps.  The vastly oversimplified short story is that factory headlamps utilize a parabolic reflector. The beam of the headlamp is "focused" by moving the bulb's filament (a theoretical "point-source" of light) to a point which is coincident with the parabolic reflector's focal point. This results (theoretically) in a relatively bright parallel headlamp beam.

 

The problem with an LED headlamp is that there is no single "point-source" of light. The lamps contain a multitude of "point-sources" which can differ dramatically in space, by sometimes an inch or more. I question the LED vendor's claim that these bulbs can be "focused" like the original filament type bulbs without some optically engineered reflector. LED's have their advantages, but a good focus is not one of them. Some vendors more accurately describe their LED headlamps as a "soft focus". For example see http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by idrjoe_sandiego (see edit history)

[ply33]

1 hour ago, idrjoe_sandiego said:

Quote from Ply33:

"I bought some Ba15d LED replacements that looked very much like those on your link but from a different vendor and could not get them to focus in my 1933 Plymouth." 

 

Ply33 makes a valid point about focusing LED lamps.  The vastly oversimplified short story is that factory headlamps utilize a parabolic reflector. The beam of the headlamp is "focused" by moving the bulb's filament (a theoretical "point-source" of light) to a point which is coincident with the parabolic reflector's focal point. This results (theoretically) in a relatively bright parallel headlamp beam.

 

The problem with an LED headlamp is that there is no single "point-source" of light. The lamps contain a multitude of "point-sources" which can differ dramatically in space, by sometimes an inch or more. I question the LED vendor's claim that these bulbs can be "focused" like the original filament type bulbs without some optically engineered reflector. LED's have their advantages, but a good focus is not one of them. Some vendors more accurately describe their LED headlamps as a "soft focus". For example see http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/

 

Apologies in advance from the nitpicking department:  Ply33, are your OEM headlamps Mazda 1000 style like the 1929 Dodge? If so, they are actually a BAY15d base. See below:

First I’ve seen that particular illustration. The 1970 GE “Lamp Technical Data - Miniature and Sealed Beam Lamps“ I have lists the base as “D.C. Bayonet’ and they look like the Ba15d in your illustration. The ones with offset pins (“Bay15d” in your illustration) would have been listed as “D.C. Indexed”.

 

Checking my stash of 6v lamps, the Mazda 1000 bulbs I have have the bayonet (Ba15d) base, not the indexed (Bay15d) base. And the 20 year old Classic and Vintage Bulbs quartz-halogen lamps currently in my car were labeled as Ba15d. Finally, I have a 1959 single sheet “MoPar Fast Movers” “Loose Leaf Parts List Service” sheet that shows Mopar part 142308 as the cross to lamp number 1000 and lists it has having a “DC-Bayonet” base (there are some other bulbs on that list, like the 1154, which are listed as DC-Index so they seemed to use the same terminology as my 1970 GE lamp guide).

 

I could take a post some photos of the Mazda 1000 bulbs I have, but the pins on them are definitely not offset (indexed) and the bulbs, some in original packaging, are clearly labeled “1000”. so I think you are wrong about about the #1000 bulbs being Bay15d.

 

Good to pick nits. . . If one’s car needs an indexed base (“Bay15d” in you illustration) and orders a bayonet base (“Ba15d”), or vise versa,  then they will have problems.

Edited August 4, 2021 by ply33 (see edit history)

[Mattml430]

1 hour ago, idrjoe_sandiego said:

Quote from Ply33:

"I bought some Ba15d LED replacements that looked very much like those on your link but from a different vendor and could not get them to focus in my 1933 Plymouth." 

 

Ply33 makes a valid point about focusing LED lamps.  The vastly oversimplified short story is that factory headlamps utilize a parabolic reflector. The beam of the headlamp is "focused" by moving the bulb's filament (a theoretical "point-source" of light) to a point which is coincident with the parabolic reflector's focal point. This results (theoretically) in a relatively bright parallel headlamp beam.

 

The problem with an LED headlamp is that there is no single "point-source" of light. The lamps contain a multitude of "point-sources" which can differ dramatically in space, by sometimes an inch or more. I question the LED vendor's claim that these bulbs can be "focused" like the original filament type bulbs without some optically engineered reflector. LED's have their advantages, but a good focus is not one of them. Some vendors more accurately describe their LED headlamps as a "soft focus". For example see http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/

 

Apologies in advance from the nitpicking department:  Ply33, are your OEM headlamps Mazda 1000 style like the 1929 Dodge? If so, they are actually a BAY15d base. See below:

I totally agree with the focusing of the bulbs. It is also crappie for on coming traffic if they are to higher wattage. 
I guess the only bonus for us with the old vintage cars is that they put a bit more of a spread of light out there better than candles  we had. 

[ply33]

Just looked up the headlight bulbs for early Dodge in my 1931 Chilton’s Multi-Guide. Looks like they changed from using a 1129 lamp in 1927 and 28 to a 1110 lamp for 1929 through 31 (except for the 1931 Dodge 8 which used a 1120 lamp).

 

So the 1929 Dodge came from the factory with the same headlight bulb as my 1933 Plymouth. And that bulb was typically replaced by later owners or service people with a 1000 lamp.

 

The 1129 is listed in my 1970 lamp guide as a S-8 shaped glass, single contact bayonet base, rated for 6.4 volts giving out 21 candlepower consuming 2.63 amps, with a C-6 filament, rated at 200 average lab life hours. I guess Dodge did not have more modern type high and low beams until 1929. The 1120 lamp is not listed in my references so I don’t know what it was or how the 1931 Dodge 8 differed from the other Dodges for that year with respect to headlights.

[idrjoe_sandiego]

To Ply33:

Not to belabor this point, and I am not disagreeing with your information, but at least in the 1929 Dodge headlamp system, which most definitely is a High Beam/Lo Beam setup, how does one get the bulb to operate properly without indexed pins? Do you just guess which way to insert the bulb?

[Kenendcindyc]

14 minutes ago, idrjoe_sandiego said:

To Ply33:

Not to belabor this point, and I am not disagreeing with your information, but at least in the 1929 Dodge headlamp system, which most definitely is a High Beam/Lo Beam setup, how does one get the bulb to operate properly without indexed pins? Do you just guess which way to insert the bulb?

Yup you just guess and try them. If one is low and one is high just turn the bulb that is wrong 180 degrees and reinstall to correct. 

[idrjoe_sandiego]

Gotta love a good guessing game!

[Mark Gregush]

Most headlight bulbs were marked top, along with the low beam filament being off set from center and would be at the top of the bulb. So the bulbs did not need offset pins. As long as the bulbs you use put the filaments horizontal when installed and the low beam filament on top, you should be good to go.

[idrjoe_sandiego]

Ply33 -

My bad. I deleted my incorrect info on my earlier post re: bulb base on headlamps. Thank you for making that correction and sharing the correct information. Sorry for picking the wrong nits!

Apologies to the forum,

Joe

 

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by idrjoe_sandiego (see edit history)

[Bloo]

On 8/3/2021 at 3:41 AM, Mattml430 said:

I wanted to try some LED’s to lower the power consumption a bit. 

 

Me too.

 

The problem is that any focused light is designed around a focal point. The filament is sometimes cylinder shaped, and is oriented either up/down, right/left, or front/rear. The filament might be a V shape to more closely approximate a spherical spot of light. The designer designs around this with his reflector and lens. Probably mostly the lens because the reflectors in cars of this period are usually simple parabolic reflectors. The placement of the filament is critical to focus and to the distribution of light.

 

As you can see from the pictures in this thread, LEDs do not typically make a tiny cylinder or sphere of light that shines in all directions. They need a heatsink on the back of the LEDs. LED technology improves every year it seems, maybe it will happen someday. For now, if you look at many of the pictures in this thread you can see why the light will not focus. The lights are probably brighter to look at but lack the distance projection for driving.

 

I have seen some bulbs with the LEDs down inside slots in the heatsink. I imagine it works better but I doubt it completely solves the problem. The H4s shown at the top of the graphic in your post are also attempting to position the LED better.

 

If you buy some, be sure to buy the most recent design you can find. The technology is moving extremely fast. Stuff sold for old cars can sit on a shelf for years.

 

LEDs can work very well for the smaller bulbs that are not in focused reflectors. It won't save as much power as headlamps would, but it is something.

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Mattml430]

Fitted up the LED , H4’s today and tested them tonight. They are actually not to bad. They give a better light than the halogen globes. Not a huge difference between high and low but it’s there. held them in with 3 small springs. 
This is on High beam. 
This is low beam.

For some reason the iPhone used the flash for low beam. 
In the photo it definitely looks like a lot of difference between hi and low but it doesn’t actually look that noticeable. 
They almost seem focussed well enough. 
I might just need to point the drivers side inward a little. 

[30DodgePanel]

Am I the only one nervous about what's perched above the cars? That shelf/ramp looks like it's going to slide off at any moment. 
Love the LEDs for safety and the original for shows.

 

[knobless]

1 hour ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Am I the only one nervous about what's perched above the cars? That shelf/ramp looks like it's going to slide off at any moment. 
Love the LEDs for safety and the original for shows.

 

Looks like a running board stored above?

 

 

[Mattml430]

2 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Am I the only one nervous about what's perched above the cars? That shelf/ramp looks like it's going to slide off at any moment. 
Love the LEDs for safety and the original for shows.

 

It’s a light board for a trailer but it’s been sitting up there for 10 years like that. Fair chance I might move it today after looking at it in the photo 😬

 

[cutdown]

Hi Matt. What were the part no's of those LED bulbs you used. I have been considering making frames for fitting H4 semi sealed  lamps inside the head lamps for normal driving. Something that can be changed back to "candles " easily, if I want to show the car.

Another BE shell cracked during rebuild so at least another 2 week delay while engineer goes on holiday. Might get time for Clive's to get back to me about the cam.

Edited July 6, 2022 by cutdown
spelling (see edit history)

[Mattml430]

21 hours ago, cutdown said:

Hi Matt. What were the part no's of those LED bulbs you used. I have been considering making frames for fitting H4 semi sealed  lamps inside the head lamps for normal driving. Something that can be changed back to "candles " easily, if I want to show the car.

Another BE shell cracked during rebuild so at least another 2 week delay while engineer goes on holiday. Might get time for Clive's to get back to me about the cam.

They are pretty much just a standard H4 led bulb. The hole in the reflector has to be enlarged slightly to make them fit. I think there is someone selling bulbs that fit the old style fitting