Pre-WWII car collection

[Pat Williams]

I need some advice. My father-in-law spent years collecting and restoring a unique collection of brass and pre-WWII cars. Unfortunately he passed last year at the age of 89. I have been given the honor of finding a new home or homes for the cars. I'm looking for a starting point on accomplishing this task. I could probably go through an auction house, but I thought I would ask some of the folks with a passion for these cars for their thoughts and advice.

The Collection:

1910 Elmore (restored, almost running)

1914 Metz Model 22 speedster (restored and running)

1912 Buick Model 29 Touring Car (older restoration and will run)

1924 Buick Touring Car (restored and will run)

1928 Buick sedan (clean garage find and running)

1936 Packard Super Eight rumble seat coupe. Model 958. Currently disassembled. I have the complete car, just in pieces. Much of the restoration has been completed, paint and some interior. 

Valuation of the cars is an open discussion but going to the right home is the key factor.

Any advice would be appreciated,

Pat

[alsancle]

Selling cars is a pain in the rear end.   Consigning the collection to an auction house or reputable dealer will net you the money in the easiest fashion.   If you want to sell each car yourself then start an individual thread here on each car with lots of pictures.  The forum members will coach you up.

 

As a heads up to set expectations, prepare to get 40-50% of whatever your dad thought the cars were worth.

 

Good luck.

[Paul Dobbin]

Pat,

This is the place for that discussion. 

What you will learn is that "will run" and "almost running" are way dowm the value scale from "runs and drives".

Many of these cars should be easy to find homes for, but you'll have many more prospects if they run and drive.

Pictures are worth 1000 words here on the Forum.

Maybe your father-in-law had some friends or sources for help that you could use to make the cad run & drive.

Now we'll hear fro the experts.

 

[alsancle]

Location is important too.   We had a really cool car available on the forum here but it was tucked in to a corner of Idaho that was unreachable 1/2 the year.  He had a hard time selling it, even at a reasonable price.

 

 

[Mark Shaw]

21 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Location is important too.

Probably the most important item on my list...

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, Pat Williams said:

My father-in-law spent years collecting and restoring a unique collection of brass and pre-WWII cars.

 

Pat, this forum reaches only a small subset of 

car collectors.  Listing here is fine, but will not

cast a wide net.  If a car isn't running, I suspect you

don't want to be involved in thousands of dollars of

mechanical work, so simply price it accordingly, and

don't worry.

 

The era of your cars is perfect for advertising

with the Horseless Carriage Club of America.

The HCCA has a magazine, and an excellent

website that lists cars for sale.  Any pre-war car

is appropriate for that website:

https://hcca.org/Classifieds/classifieds.php?cars

 

The Buicks could be advertised in the magazine

of the Buick Club of America;  the Packards, with

Packard Automobile Classics, a Packard club.

 

They could also be listed with Hemmings Motor News

(magazine and website), but I think the HCCA would

be better for the years of your cars.

 

All the best to you!

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Pat......as a strictly pre war guy, I like all the cars in the collection. That said, none of them are cars that people will beat your doors down for.......unless you price them under market. Most of the advice here is good. How much time and effort you want to spend selling them is important. It’s difficult at best to sell good turn key cars today. First, if you don’t have clear titles in your name, the car is NOT sellable........for anywhere near its potential value. My honest and humble opinion is to toss them on eBay at NO RESERVE........do one at a time, and list all the cars you have in the ad. Let everyone know all the cars are no reserve, one at a time, photos and video will be a big help. Run a 10 day auction. Let them fly. You could spend thousands of dollars and countless hours, and not come out ahead of a no reserve eBay sale. One last comment, the value of the cars decreases EVERY day, sell them NOW. Best of luck, Ed.

Edited May 3, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

Location is important too.   We had a really cool car available on the forum here but it was tucked in to a corner of Idaho that was unreachable 1/2 the year.  He had a hard time selling it, even at a reasonable price.

 

 

 

Apart from the border , Idaho is almost in my back yard.  I still would like to buy one more pre 1925 car. You guys have lots to choose from out East. Please leave the reasonably priced , West of the Rockies stuff for those of us here in the hinterlands.

[padgett]

Point is we again has a person with one post who gives a list of cars with no real information. I'd treat something like this in email as spam.

[C Carl]

Yeah Ben,

and actually Pat Williams joined back on February 5th, so he is not some “one hit wonder”. He is one of us, and would certainly appreciate the help we have to offer. I do want to reiterate that location will be a large factor in the efficient disposition of the cars. As with most things, taking advantage of, and picking low hanging fruit is usually a no brainer. Someone wanting a car might be only a few dozen miles away. Likewise, a kind generous AACA member might be able to stop by and help.

 

Where are you and/or the cars located, Pat ? All the best to you, and your wife’s family.    -    Carl 

[padgett]

err, thought the "one post" meant "ever". Have never understood why anyone would post something about cars for sale on a national forum without at least hinting to "where".

[wayne sheldon]

As others have said, a big difference between running and not. There is also considerable difference between "will run" and actually being drivable. Being fully tour-able, able to jump in and head out for a few hundred miles fully expecting no problems, is another leap.

 

For those of use really into the earlier cars (brass and nickel era), and with tight limited budgets, you have an interesting selection. Buicks in general are good cars and more reliable than a lot of cars of any given era. The Packard is a later but still prewar car, and appeals to a lot of hobbyists and collectors. Being apart though will limit its appeal.

 

I am not in a position to consider buying anything these days. However, I do have some interest and background with Metz. The word 'speedster' generally has a negative connotation with a lot of hobbyists. And that negative reaction is well deserved. Too many (most!) era 'speedsters' are very badly restored and rarely give a proper representation of the cars of the era that we usually today refer to as 'speedsters'. Very sad really. Speedsters (as most hobbyists today think of them) were a genuine real part of our automotive history. They deserve to be restored, driven, enjoyed, and seen, at antique automotive events. I have restored a few of them myself over the years, and always try to keep them mostly era correct in appearance and construction.

But I digress. The word 'speedster' also applied to many factory built cars, from about 1910 well into the 1930s. Metz did build a model the factory called "speedster" in 1914. For Metz, it was a one year only model designation, the 1913 factory stripped down roadster was called a 'special', whereas the 1914 (which had considerable differences!) was called "speedster" in sales and factory literature. The true Metz Speedster of 1914 is a unique model, fairly rare, and of particular interest to people that like the Metz automobiles.

IF (and it is a big IF) it is a true Metz 1914 speedster, that would help with interest and attracting a buyer at a fair price. Even if it is a proper Metz speedster, it won't be very valuable. There is one for sale on ebay that has been for sale for quite a while now. Frankly, it is way over-priced, and it is NOT properly restored, so it may or may not be a good comparison for the one you have. But it is at least something for you to look at. Remember, 'asking prices' do not give a good representation of 'value'.

 

If you are ready to sell, and have thick enough skin to take sometimes nasty remarks, a separate thread for each of these cars in the 'cars for sale' sub-forum asking for honest opinions and/or examples could help you a lot. Lots of GOOD pictures, and of course location is important. A few good photos, I could help with information about the Metz.

[28 Chrysler]

The 1910 Elmore is a very interesting car. They made 2 & 3 cylinder cars that were 2 cycle engines.

They have a gear driven ported tube, long like a camshaft, as a kind of fuel / air rail.

[Pat Williams]

Hey All, 

Thanks for all the comments so far. This was my first foray onto the forum with the list of cars. I was just at my Mother-in-Laws house and did a quick “what I need to do to each car” review. Let’s see if I can answer some of the questions.

The cars are located in Northern Utah. 

The Metz was the first car to be restored. That was 20 plus years ago. It ran and drove into the shop shed it is stored in. The friction drive needs a little TLC, but should not be an issue. Car is well documented. I will verify the “speedster” .

The Elmore is a nice restoration, but has never run. We are currently very hopeful because we have overhauled the ignition box and we have spark. I realize a running Elmore is a true rarity.  Lots of history on the car and a nice build book. 

The ‘12 Buick ran when it was put in the storage. Needs some TLC.

The ‘24 Buick was running, also needs some TLC.

The ‘28 Buick was something he bought a few years ago so he could putt around town in and to local car club events.

The Packard was purchased a number of years ago as his next project. The other cars pretty much just put in storage. The Packard received most of his attention until he just couldn’t do the work any more. So, I have a complete car in pieces. This car is one of the few model 958’s with a rear mount spare tire. 

 

So, just for clarity, this isn’t about making money selling these cars. It is about finding a home with someone who appreciates the cars for what they are. I know that sounds naive, but that is what my Father-in-Law wanted. He didn’t restore them to make money, he did it because he loved the cars. 

 

I appreciate all the comments and encouragement. It seems a little less daunting now.

 

Pat

 

[R Holden]

Hi Pat

 

i may be interested in the Elmore, if you could send some photos and information, thanks russell@oldworldlamps.net

[Ed Luddy]

Get your camera out and take lots of pictures in  a well lit background. Any of them that you can get outside without too much hassle to photo document will be time well spent. Wash them. The" barn dust" is getting kinda worn out. Or even better do both. Good luck!

[BucketofBolts]

Pictures ??? 

[jeff_a]

Another idea is to list them in the "Multi-Makes" section of Hemmings Motor News. It's a small section, but a whole collection like this one might stand out, especially if all six are listed(not just "teens-to-30s").

[58L-Y8]

"1936 Packard Super Eight rumble seat coupe. Model 958. Currently disassembled. I have the complete car, just in pieces. Much of the restoration has been completed, paint and some interior."

 

There should be interest in your Packard even though it is disassembled.   Advertising it on the Packard Club and Packard International websites would open a good channel for its sale.  Good luck.

Packard Automobile Classics, Inc. - The Packard Club

 

Packards International Motor Car Club

[R Holden]

Hi Pat

 

Yes Elmore are finicky to get running the later one easier than the early as they have a proper carbie. We are taking ours to the Pre '05 Tour next weekend.

 

Any photo and information would be appreciated, and what you are thinking on price. you can email me direct russell@oldworldlamps.net