Contemplating a 1925 Buick

[Highlifer]

Hello, I am seriously considering ownership of a 1925 Buick McLaughlin Series 40 Country Club Edition. How difficult is it to acquire parts such as door handles and the like?

 

From the pictures I’ve seen it is missing the dash mounted control/selector switch for what appears to be the heater and one other control knob that operates something else, choke maybe.

 

What type of factory heating systems did this vintage come with? I’ve read about some crazy exhaust take off contraptions that sound like a catastrophe waiting to happen.

 

Thanks for any feedback, Cheers,

 

Craig from Canada

[Joe in Canada]

For castings such as door handles call Mike Butters in Cobourg Ont. and a great guy to deal with 905-372-6926. He can make most things you may need when it comes to castings. 

[wayne sheldon]

I "think" the heater control you are talking about is the carburetor heat control. Buicks those years had a big control on the dash, with the choke on the same escutcheon. Gasoline back in the day wasn't very good, and many cars had some sort of carburetor control to compensate for that. This was Buick's solution.

The carburetor adjustment isn't so necessary today, and many Buick owners block off the mechanism on the intake manifold rather than trying to get it working correctly. That leaves the dash control mostly a decoration. They are available, or at least they used to be fairly common.

[dibarlaw]

Highlifer:

 Welcome to the forum. Wayne is correct in his comments as to the carburetor heat control system. All the other 1920s Buick owners I know have dissabled the system and blocked off heat to the carburetor riser. I have done so on both my 1925 Buicks. On the Buick Pre-War forum there are some threads as to how to do it. I have a Buick Club friend who is currently restoring a 1925 Model 54C (Country Club Coupe).

   1925 Standard DashLayout.

 

My 1925 Model 45 Master 120"WB. dash layout with decorsative shaped heat plate.

 Layout for a 1925 Model 55  Sport Touring. (I do not know what the button and switch are for at the far right as they are not original. Period cigar lighter above..) The wood grain is not correct for this Flint made car (should be leather covered) but the McLaughlin versions may have a wood dash.

 The Heat control plates are reproduced in Stainless Steel and BOB'S Automobilia sells them.

 The factory photos of the 54C show the oval loop style door handles. They were made of the poor diecast of the day. Others on the forum have had them recast.

 

[padgett]

"crazy exhaust take off contraptions" - all air cooled VWs and Corvairs though some also had an auxiliary gasoline heater. Wanna talk about disaster potential...

[John_S_in_Penna]

9 minutes ago, padgett said:

"crazy exhaust take off contraptions" - all air cooled VWs and Corvairs though some also had an auxiliary gasoline heater. Wanna talk about disaster potential...

 

Please remember the forum administrator's

cautions about getting threads off-topic.

Comments about 1920's Buicks would, I'm sure,

be welcome.

[J.H.Boland]

There was an exhaust heater in the closed cars. It was controlled by a floor mounted lever which actuated a valve in the exhaust pipe. Attached are a couple of pictures of the unit in my 25-six-28. Finding parts can be tedious, but members on this forum are very helpful in tracking down stuff. 

Jim

Edited January 16, 2021 by J.H.Boland (see edit history)

[J.H.Boland]

If it's the one from Surrey that was on Ebay, it's newer than a '25.

Edited January 16, 2021 by J.H.Boland (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Don't be afraid of an exhaust heater. I have dealt with them on VWs plenty of times. You need to go over the system and make sure there are no exhaust leaks. Then there is probably a tin shell around the heater which is rusted through and needs to be replaced or repaired. There is nothing particularly difficult or expensive in any of this, and once fixed properly, should work well for many years. I'm not sure but that it would be easier than dealing with a leaky hot water heater.

[Marty Roth]

Our 1964 Citroen 2-CV,

as well as all of our Corvairs,

have used Exhaust heaters,

and actually, our 1927 Chevy Capitol AA Roadster used the same design, ducting air, heated by the exhaust manifold, into the passenger area

[nickelroadster]

Sometimes looking for parts can be the most satisfying part of the hobby as long as it doesn't preclude you from driving and enjoying the car right now.  Go for it!

[Highlifer]

J.H.Bowland, it is the car from Surrey that I ended up buying. How do you know it is newer than ‘25? All the documentation I got with the vehicle state it is from that year. What are some of the tell tale features I should be looking for to determine vintage guys?

[wayne sheldon]

I suppose there is a remote possibility that it could (not likely?) be a 1925 chassis with a lot of 1928 Buick parts on it?

The fenders, headlamps, and many other things are one year only 1928 Buick parts. Earlier fenders weren't a smooth crown, they had a sort of double crown to  them. The earlier headlamps were a drum type (although not a true straight drum, they had a bit of taper to them). Those three bar bumpers are a Buick trademark! They were an option available on some models for a very few years. But not as early as 1925. I am not sure what year they first became available, but I know some '28s did have them. 

 

Without knowing the car's history, it is only speculation. However, many states did not register or license cars until many years later. If I recall correctly, the last state (I don't recall which state?) wasn't forced to require registration until the Fed required it of them about 1960.

What happened to literally thousands of cars, in a dozen states, was when the state began to require registration, people wouldn't remember what year it was when the car was bought, or what year they were told it was when they bought it used. So, they guessed. And the states accepted the guess, and for years thereafter the car would be known as the wrong year. Make sure that the numbers match between the title and either the engine or the chassis numbers! Rocking boats in many states can cause all sorts of troubles. A wrong year usually will not cause troubles as long as the numbers are correct. If, for some reason, you must regenerate a new title, it would be best to confirm the model year by checking Buick serial number records. I don't have them, but those should be easy enough to get through other forum regulars.

 

By the way, the dummy landau bars are on upside-down/backwards. Rotate 180 degrees.

Edited May 11, 2021 by wayne sheldon
Additional thought. (see edit history)

[J.H.Boland]

Wayne is right. It would appear that you have a 1928. The photo shows my '25 Standard Six four Passenger Coupe. It has a taller profile than yours. If you can post pictures of the serial number plate on the frame and the data plate on the firewall, the Buick guys on here can ID it for you. It's a handsome car !

According to the book "Cars of Canada", serial numbers for a 1928 McLaughlin Buick should be from 135001 to147935.

Jim

Edited May 11, 2021 by J.H.Boland (see edit history)

[Mark Shaw]

Frame number should be on a plate behind the left front wheel.  If you are not into judging and really like the car, it doesn't matter if it has a few "aftermarket" items.   It only matters if you need to replace a part that may not fit correctly.

[Oregon Desert model 45]

Shock absorber snubbers, introduced in 1928, are visible on the front end with strap attaching to a loop on the front axle that was not present on 1925 models.

So far everything I can see looks correct for 1928.

Kevin 

 

[Highlifer]

Thanks everyone for wading in with your insight.
 

I’m away at work presently and won’t be reunited with the vehicle for another week or so. As soon as I have the opportunity I’ll post pics of all the identifying plates/serial number, etc. to settle the debate. I am not put out that the car may turn out to be a different year from advertised. I’m just happy to have it in such well preserved condition. I still have a little metal work to do either side on what I would refer to as rocker panels on most cars I’ve owned. Between the doors and the running boards. Incidentally, the old plywood ones are gone, and I picked up 3/4 Oak planking to install once urethane has been applied. You can see them stained in the picture with the motorcycle in it.

 

Bob’s Automobilia in Templeton Ca, is sending me some goodies, amongst which is a set of step plates to go on the running boards.

Plugs, wires, fan belt, etc and I should be able to get her running providing the fuel vacuum tank is still serviceable. If not, should I install a 6 volt pump temporarily and if so what psi or gallons per minute flow should I be looking for?

 

 I put in a new battery and terminal clamps as well as replaced every lightbulb, all of which now work. I can’t tell you all how ecstatic I was when she turned over. I knew she wasn’t seized as I had turned the crank using the handle when I picked the car up.

 

Last question for now. Where do I get white wall tires and windshield/door glass for this car?

 

Craig

[Highlifer]

On 5/11/2021 at 8:10 AM, Oregon Desert model 45 said:

Shock absorber snubbers, introduced in 1928, are visible on the front end with strap attaching to a loop on the front axle that was not present on 1925 models.

So far everything I can see looks correct for 1928.

Kevin 

 

Yes Kevin,

 

it has those at all four corners and I believe they all leak so that’ll be fun sorting out.

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

[Rusty_OToole]

White wall tires available from the specialist tire places like Coker, your local tire store may be able to order them. Any auto glass shop can cut the glass for you, it is all flat glass, probably thicker than what they use today though.

[Dave39MD]

When set up right the vacuum fuel pumps work well. There are guys on here that rebuild their own and some parts are available. I also believe at least one person that frequents this site rebuilds them for others. If you have problems post them on here and someone will help. Mine has never given any trouble.

 

Dave

[J.H.Boland]

10 hours ago, Highlifer said:

Thanks everyone for wading in with your insight.
 Between the doors and the running boards. Incidentally, the old plywood ones are gone, and I picked up 3/4 Oak planking to install once urethane has been applied. You can see them stained in the picture with the motorcycle in it.

 

 

 

Craig

Your running boards should be rubber covered. Someone on the forum likely has a source for them.

Jim

Edited May 13, 2021 by J.H.Boland (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

I have a book with Buick numbers. Post the frame and engine number and I'll look it up for you. Often frame and engine numbers do not match and did not from the factory so that is not a problem. Looks like a nice car. Glad you have it. I think you will enjoy it once you get it on the road. Dandy Dave! 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Your landau bars are installed upside down. The "knuckle" in the center should always be on the top except on funeral vehicles where they are always on the bottom.

[Highlifer]

Thanks for the info regarding the Landau Bars and the Running Boards. 

 

Out of curiosity, If I were to convert my Buick to a Rumble Seat configuration, how might that affect the value? Or indeed, If I were to chop the top and make it a convertible roadster type. Are such acts of butchery considered sacrilegious to some?

[Highlifer]

20 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

White wall tires available from the specialist tire places like Coker, your local tire store may be able to order them. Any auto glass shop can cut the glass for you, it is all flat glass, probably thicker than what they use today though.

I tried Coker, and they are out of stock for my size apparently. 525/550x21”

[Highlifer]

2 minutes ago, Ben P. said:

People have opinions and feelings, but sacrilege is simply the wrong question.

A rumble seat conversion would be easier said than done, but to remove the top and make it a convertible or roadster (2 entirely different things in the 1920’s) the question would be feasibility.

Do you know how many body panels are shared between a Fisher bodied coupe and roadster?

Not many... New doors, cowl, and windshield/cowl at minimum. I wouldn’t be surprised if the rear fenders weren’t different.

Then there’s the wood body framework - which a lot of restorations aren’t done today simply because a car’s existing (and patternable) wood needs replacement.

The framework for a coupe is entirely different than an open car’s. That alone would be a costly costly hurtle to clear.

I did notice the top of the door lines were much lower on the convertibles compared to my car. I figured it would be a huge undertaking considering the  compromise to structural integrity. Reinforcing the chassis/frame and the wood body framework would be imperative. Don’t get me wrong, I really like the car the way it is right now. I just wanted to know other’s views on changing an existing body style for something else, ie, rumble seat/convertible transformation.

[Highlifer]

14 hours ago, Dandy Dave said:

I have a book with Buick numbers. Post the frame and engine number and I'll look it up for you. Often frame and engine numbers do not match and did not from the factory so that is not a problem. Looks like a nice car. Glad you have it. I think you will enjoy it once you get it on the road. Dandy Dave! 

Thanks Dandy Dave!

 

I am not with the vehicle presently but can offer two numbers from the appraisal documents I got with the car.

 

The VIN is stated as being 7590 and the Body # 4399.

 

I will pour over the vehicle when I’m home next week and furnish you with anything else I find.

 

I remember there is what looked like a hand carved indication that it was a Fisher Body on the floor of the passenger side when I lifted the access panel to the battery and I think there are some numbers there too.

 

Cheers,

 

Craig.

[Highlifer]

On 5/11/2021 at 4:46 AM, J.H.Boland said:

Wayne is right. It would appear that you have a 1928. The photo shows my '25 Standard Six four Passenger Coupe. It has a taller profile than yours. If you can post pictures of the serial number plate on the frame and the data plate on the firewall, the Buick guys on here can ID it for you. It's a handsome car !

According to the book "Cars of Canada", serial numbers for a 1928 McLaughlin Buick should be from 135001 to147935.

Jim

That’s a beauty! Love the White Walls.

 

I’ll post pics of my serial number plate when I get home next week?

 

Thanks,

 

Craig.

[wayne sheldon]

Many people have tried to make roadsters out of coupes, or touring cars out of sedans. Nearly ALL of them have failed miserably and wound up spending a great deal of time and money ending up with an unfinished pile nobody likes or would want. Basically, NOTHING about the bodies is the same. Seriously, it would be simpler to begin with a chassis and fenders, and build everything for the body from scratch.

 

Even the few attempts that get more or less finished end up looking 'just not right' and pointed to and laughed at whenever they do get seen.

 

Besides. The Buick landau coupe is one of the more beautiful closed cars of the 1920s!

[Oregon Desert model 45]

Open car bodies were manufactured by Buick in the 1920's, and closed car bodies manufactured by Fischer. Cowl vents might interchange between open and closed bodies, but I can't think of anything else.   There is a 1931 Buick sedan that was converted into a "homemade convertible" which was recently listed on Bringatrailer.com and did not sell. 

Somebody put some effort into modifying this body but did not think about how the top and windows function.  We have seen this same car listed various places for the last 2 or 3 years without selling. Don't repeat this mistake.  https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-buick-80-series-convertible-sedan/

[Dandy Dave]

Craig. 1928 Buicks seem to use the Frame number. Not sure how the numbers would fall on a McLaughlin-Buick or how much they would differ being the chassis were built here and shipped there in the early years. Standard 6 frame numbers will fall between 1901467-2137872. Master 6 frame numbers fall between 1911026 -2169650. There were 12,417 Model 26 standard coupes built in 1928. Looks like you need to get more info off of the car to pin it down better. In the Master series a model 48 2 Door coupe was offered with, (if I am reading the info correctly) A rumble seat. 9002 of these were built. A model 54C was also offered. A Country Club Coupe. Thinking this is the one with the golf club door like yours has. 6,555 Built. Also a model 58 Coupe offered. I believe this is the Opera coupe as it is a 5 passenger car in the data listed. 9984 of these were built.     

[JACK M]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-buick-80-series-convertible-sedan/

 

I always find humor in cars advertised as a convertible, but doesn't have a top of any kind.

The convertible tag implies it would convert into something other than an open car.

Questions what does it convert to if there is no top?

[J.H.Boland]

4 hours ago, JACK M said:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-buick-80-series-convertible-sedan/

 

I always find humor in cars advertised as a convertible, but doesn't have a top of any kind.

The convertible tag implies it would convert into something other than an open car.

Questions what does it convert to if there is no top?

 Swimming pool ? Hot tub ?

Edited May 14, 2021 by J.H.Boland (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

If you want a roadster or convertible easiest, cheapest and fastest way to get one is sell your car and buy one. Better and cheaper than hacking up a coupe no matter what it costs.

[Highlifer]

Well I’d have to say that the overwhelming consensus on whether or not to chop the top off my Buick has been to leave it unmolested, and I agree. The more I look at pictures of it, as I’m away at work up north right now, the more I appreciate it’s lines as a hardtop. I like the Landau roof, though it could use recovering. It’s been redone before but for some reason they used multiple pieces of some wrinkled black vinyl-like material. Anybody know what it is? It captures dirt and dust in the deep grooves and is not easy to clean at all. 
 

I really appreciate you guys speaking out against me creating an abomination like that ‘31 conversion several of you mentioned on bring a trailer. I don’t want any part of that show.

 

When I get mine finished, if I still want a convertible, I’ll just search for and buy one.

 

Did any of these cars come with factory heat? I found a heater core with a chrome facade, small electric fan attached behind it, which I imagine mounts under the dash somewhere with the feed lines for coolant running through the firewall somewhere. Is this possibly aftermarket or from a later year? I’ll get some pics posted when I get home next week.

[Highlifer]

On 5/14/2021 at 6:10 AM, Dandy Dave said:

Craig. 1928 Buicks seem to use the Frame number. Not sure how the numbers would fall on a McLaughlin-Buick or how much they would differ being the chassis were built here and shipped there in the early years. Standard 6 frame numbers will fall between 1901467-2137872. Master 6 frame numbers fall between 1911026 -2169650. There were 12,417 Model 26 standard coupes built in 1928. Looks like you need to get more info off of the car to pin it down better. In the Master series a model 48 2 Door coupe was offered with, (if I am reading the info correctly) A rumble seat. 9002 of these were built. A model 54C was also offered. A Country Club Coupe. Thinking this is the one with the golf club door like yours has. 6,555 Built. Also a model 58 Coupe offered. I believe this is the Opera coupe as it is a 5 passenger car in the data listed. 9984 of these were built.     

Thanks for providing this data, I’ll definitely be looking into where my chassis fits into those serial ranges. Good news is it looks like mine is one of the fewest made. I’m an avid golfer so when I heard what that door was originally intended for, I just had to have the car. 

Craig

[Highlifer]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:29 PM, wayne sheldon said:

Many people have tried to make roadsters out of coupes, or touring cars out of sedans. Nearly ALL of them have failed miserably and wound up spending a great deal of time and money ending up with an unfinished pile nobody likes or would want. Basically, NOTHING about the bodies is the same. Seriously, it would be simpler to begin with a chassis and fenders, and build everything for the body from scratch.

 

Even the few attempts that get more or less finished end up looking 'just not right' and pointed to and laughed at whenever they do get seen.

 

Besides. The Buick landau coupe is one of the more beautiful closed cars of the 1920s!

I agree with your last statement Wayne, it just looks right from behind. I think the 1/3 top to 2/3 bottom ratio is just right.

[Highlifer]

On 5/13/2021 at 7:58 AM, Restorer32 said:

Your landau bars are installed upside down. The "knuckle" in the center should always be on the top except on funeral vehicles where they are always on the bottom.

Thanks, I’ll flip them when I get home. I just put them back on the way they were when I picked the car up last month. Here’s a shot on the way back from BC with the car in tow. Happened to drop by the Rust Bros garage in Tappen but nobody from the TV show was about.

[wayne sheldon]

The "some wrinkled black vinyl-like material" is likely one of the better approximations of original era top materials. It could be either the 'short grain' or the 'long grain' variation. Believe it or not, it may be one of the favored materials for such tops. The commonly used material's 'grain' does seem to be deeper than the original was, however closer to the original stuff than any of the other vinyl materials available.

As to how it was installed, from what I can see in the couple photos above? It may not be far from close-to-right. Although I am not certain the grain is going the right way or not. And some of the trimming isn't the best. One would need to compare the car with era photos to get a better idea for sure.

Edited May 16, 2021 by wayne sheldon
spotted a typo :( (see edit history)

[John VerValen]

@Highlifer, correct me if I am wrong but it was my understanding that the McLaughlin was a Canadian version and only made between 1929 and 1930???  I could be wrong but if I remember right that is when they came out.  Before that it would have been a series #...  also Snubbers were used before 1928 as my 1927 Buick master six w/ opera windows has then also.