Advice on a Bentley please.

[SC38dls]

A white car or maroon car is a nice way to take a quite peaceful ride in too! 

Dave S 

[edinmass]

Most British cars are outstanding..........they leave you out standing in the rain.?

[Bloo]

On 12/12/2017 at 4:25 PM, Pluto said:

 

A mechanic friend of mine ruefully says of a different but similar marque, "They hang the matrix from a string and build the car around it."

 

So, I see you have heard of the "string room" at Alfa Romeo....

[Pluto]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

 

So, I see you have heard of the "string room" at Alfa Romeo....

A little farther north, Zuffenhausen.

[John_S_in_Penna]

9 hours ago, Dave Fields said:

 Nothing says money more than a RR sliver Cloud or the Bentley SI. 

 

Dave, do you mean HAVING money, or being forced to SPEND your money? 

Anyway, it's nice to hear another point of view.

So, are those cars actually RELIABLE?  If so, they

may be about the only English car that is.

[Restorer32]

I realized that Bentleys were "different" when we did a considerable amount of body and paint work to a  '37. I still can't believe that there was a solenoid inside the headlight.buckets that actually tilted the reflectors if the high beam was called for. The modern 2 bulb.system of high and low beams was perfected in about 1931. Also, why were there 5 very small diameter wires going to the sending unit in the fuel tank. 5? Why 5? Even the earliest electrical fuel gauges require only 1 or 2 wires. We also rewooded a '49  Bentley James Young Sedanca Coupe'. About a cord of wood but we found it interesting that the old school methods of buidling a body were still alive in '49.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Restorer32
Mispelling (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

10 hours ago, Dave Fields said:

This is one of the worst threads on AACA, with so much information. Ignore all the pundants talking about prewar RR/Bentley cars. Ignore ll the experts talking about post war V-8 RR/Bentley products. The engine and car you are asking about is a F head 6 cylinder car. The engine in question is an industrial engine. It was used in tanks and many applications during the era in question. It is a fantastic engine. There are two antique vehicles that are used more than any other in around the world rallies or "races." the circa 1929 Chrysler 75 and the postwar Bentley 6 cylinder. A MK VI Bentley enthusiast, a member of the British army, saw many RR/Bentley motors in ditches during his service in Iraq. The aluminum head on the iron block can be a issue; but that is it. The automatic transmission is GMC, and filters are available at Pep boys or any major auto parts. Nothing says money more than a RR sliver Cloud or the Bentley SI. A fantastic car for the money. Perhaps the BEST BUY in all of auto collecting----a post war RR/Bentley 6 cylinder. The 6 cylinder car is very very very different than the V* car.  

 

Yep, the hardware is robust. Put that engine in something that doesn't have a Rolls-Royce/Bentley body, chassis, and electrical system attached to it, and you might really have something!

 

Nevertheless, I can promise you that while the engine is simple and durable, you're going to spend a massive amount of money rebuilding it because Joe at the local NAPA machine shop isn't going to want to touch it. You will need experts, and experts cost extra. You will need specialized parts, and specialized parts cost extra. You will likely need unique tools, and unique tools cost extra. You want to own a high-end car, you can't have a low-end bank account.

 

It is my belief that Rolls-Royce, LTD. found that as technology improved after WWII, cheap cars got a lot better. However, it was increasingly difficult to make expensive cottage industry cars sufficiently superior to justify their cost, even the cost difference between, say, a Cadillac and a Rolls-Royce in the 1950s. As a result, Rolls-Royce engineers resorted to complexity as a way of justifying the expense--they were more difficult to assemble and they were a precision instrument rather than a mere machine. Did they work better? Eh, debatable. They do "feel" different, I'll give them that much. Enough to justify the cost and complexity? Not in my opinion. But that is exactly why there are five wires controlling the fuel sending unit, why every part is held in place with ten tiny bolts rather than four regular-sized ones, why the throttle linkage consists of a dozen tiny bell cranks, roller bearings, and spring-loaded levers instead of a cable. It is why they use hydraulic pressure generated by a pump driven by the camshaft to control the brakes rather than a master cylinder. It is why the rugged Hydra-Matic automatic transmission is saddled with a delicate electric selector motor that's problematic--can't have the Rolls-Royce owner actually feeling the mechanism working, now can we? Complexity (and therefore the impression that they were indeed something unique) was central to the Rolls-Royce mystique and brand. You see how Rolls-Royce enthusiasts talk about their cars today--do you think they would behave the same way if they were as simple underneath as a Chevrolet?

 

These are undoubtedly fine cars and if you have the bankroll to finance a restoration, you will be rewarded with a high-quality car that does, as you say, carry a lot of snob appeal. But getting a non-running, disassembled Bentley of any kind into a state where it can operate correctly and safely is not for a newcomer to British cars nor for someone on a budget, which was the intent of this discussion. You probably won't break an engine or throw a rod, that's true. You probably will tear your hair out trying to get all the little tiny stuff around the engine to operate correctly. And that is where the problem lies with the car in question.

[60FlatTop]

I prefer mavin to pundit. Pundits are those news people whom give distorted stories, you know, distorted, what some people call "fake".

Bernie

[padgett]

All I know is that a 57 Rolls is the easiest car to hotwire in the world. Whitworth sockets and wrenches are available on Amazon, and some even know how to pour their own bearings. The engine and tranny are both designed for "enough" power and are very strong/long lasting. The weak spot in any English car of the 50s is the Lucas electrics.

 

Now the question is "why do you want it ?" If to drive around in something unique it is a great car but designed for cool climates. Not the easiest to add AC and a more efficient cooling/electrical system.

 

A 100 point bustle back Bentley makes no sense but some here cannot see past trophies. For me the biggest issue would be rust, there are answers to everything mechanical (but not necessarily anything a purist would like. OTOH if you buy it, it is YOUR car and not anyone else's.

Edited December 14, 2017 by padgett (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

8 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

It is my belief that Rolls-Royce, LTD. found that as technology improved after WWII, cheap cars got a lot better. However, it was increasingly difficult to make expensive cottage industry cars sufficiently superior to justify their cost, even the cost difference between, say, a Cadillac and a Rolls-Royce in the 1950s.

 

What year did the RROC allow Standard Steel Saloons on the judging field?

[Steve_Mack_CT]

When I was a kid in the 70s we vacationed on the CT shoreline (well, it's kind of the beach but that's another story.. ).  Guy used to keep an S1 there, a fee cottages down.  I  never recall it breaking down, and he used it a lot.  

 

I do get Matt Harwood's point on postwar cheap cars.  Economies of scale and big 3 engineering killed Packard, RR/Bentley chose a different route and found a way to survive.  I think those S1 models and earlier postwar RR/Bentleys are interesting cars but a sound one could be a better route.

[George Smolinski]

The question "Why do I want it/have an interest in it?" was asked. The answer is I saw it for sale on CL. Fairly decent description & photos, although not enough photos, and the asking price is $6500. I thought about buying to resell after making it roadworthy & having some fun driving it next spring & summer. I would not do the repairs myself. I thought I would ask a brother that has his own auto repair shop if he'd work on it for me at his shop rate.

There appears to be far more negative input to this thread than positive & I think Matt's 2 posts made up my mind for me not to buy it. Besides, I'd probably have to listen to my brother bitch about the car & repairs all the while it was in his shop!

Thanks to all that chimed in & I'm glad I asked here first before diving in. I didn't ask when I bought the Riley you see by my name, but that turned out quite well.

[padgett]

" I would not do the repairs myself." - well right there says you are better spending more for a running driving car you can enjoy now and not somewhere off in the future.

 

This is more for someone who wants more than a car, they must want a hobby, a lifestyle, and incidentally transportation.

[Digger914]

20 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

The question "Why do I want it/have an interest in it?" was asked. The answer is I saw it for sale on CL. Fairly decent description & photos, although not enough photos, and the asking price is $6500. I thought about buying to resell after making it roadworthy & having some fun driving it next spring & summer. I would not do the repairs myself. I thought I would ask a brother that has his own auto repair shop if he'd work on it for me at his shop rate.

There appears to be far more negative input to this thread than positive & I think Matt's 2 posts made up my mind for me not to buy it. Besides, I'd probably have to listen to my brother bitch about the car & repairs all the while it was in his shop!

Thanks to all that chimed in & I'm glad I asked here first before diving in. I didn't ask when I bought the Riley you see by my name, but that turned out quite well.

 George, if you're not thinking about this anymore can you hook me up with the link, looked for Bently on CL and it didn't pop up for me.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Digger if you want a project like this, maybe the same car, even, same mechanical situation, nice body, I think the same price, CT.  Orrie Simko Classic cars, Collinsville CT.  Check hemmings or Google.   

[C Carl]

2 hours ago, Digger914 said:

 George, if you're not thinking about this anymore can you hook me up with the link, looked for Bently on CL and it didn't pop up for me.

 

Did you search for Bentley , or "Bently" as quoted ? I do things like this frequentley. ??    - Carl 

[Digger914]

1 hour ago, C Carl said:

 

Did you search for Bentley , or "Bently" as quoted ? I do things like this frequentley. ??    - Carl 

 

Bentley, and found a 56 on the local CL but it's RH steer, listed as running and the seller wants 30K.

[60FlatTop]

On 12/14/2017 at 4:38 PM, George Smolinski said:

Riley you see by my name, but that turned out quite well

 

I know an owner of 1950's Silver Wraith and a Silver Spirit. Behind his house a Riley coupe is rusting into the ground. He raves about what a good car that Riley was.

 

I had one very gauche reason for not buying a Bentley or a Silver Spur. And I know all the implications, but it made ME happy. That's what counts.

 

I'm just a redneck pagan.

 

 

Bernie

Edited December 15, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[George Smolinski]

7 hours ago, Digger914 said:

 George, if you're not thinking about this anymore can you hook me up with the link, looked for Bently on CL and it didn't pop up for me.

Here it is - https://neworleans.craigslist.org/cto/d/1956-bentley-1-2/6409785001.html

Here's another - https://monroe.craigslist.org/search/cta?max_auto_year=1958&min_auto_year=1942&nearbyArea=100&nearbyArea=134&nearbyArea=199&nearbyArea=206&nearbyArea=230&nearbyArea=283&nearbyArea=284&nearbyArea=31&nearbyArea=358&nearbyArea=359&nearbyArea=374&nearbyArea=375&nearbyArea=46&nearbyArea=629&nearbyArea=641&nearbyArea=642&nearbyArea=643&nearbyArea=644&query=Bentley&searchNearby=2

[Digger914]

3 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

Here it is - https://neworleans.craigslist.org/cto/d/1956-bentley-1-2/6409785001.html

Here's another - https://monroe.craigslist.org/search/cta?max_auto_year=1958&min_auto_year=1942&nearbyArea=100&nearbyArea=134&nearbyArea=199&nearbyArea=206&nearbyArea=230&nearbyArea=283&nearbyArea=284&nearbyArea=31&nearbyArea=358&nearbyArea=359&nearbyArea=374&nearbyArea=375&nearbyArea=46&nearbyArea=629&nearbyArea=641&nearbyArea=642&nearbyArea=643&nearbyArea=644&query=Bentley&searchNearby=2

 

Thanks George, thought it was going to be a Minnesota local and not to crazy about the long tow and wrong side steering, but it looks like a lot of car for the money so I added the link to my favorites. Have an airline ticket I need to use or loose by the end of January, so if the old boat is still there after Christmas, I'll fly down and take a closer look.  

 

Have to admit that I would take this one first if I can http://topclassiccarsforsale.com/bentley/184562-for-sale-1956-rhd-bentley-s1-with-rolls-royce-conversion-package.html

Edited December 16, 2017 by Digger914 (see edit history)

[George Smolinski]

The '51 Mark VI for $8000 looks like a much better car for the money to me.

1951 Bentley

fuel: gas
title status: clean
transmission: manual

QR Code Link to This Post

Year: 1951
Number of Cylinders: 6
Mileage: 72,000

[alsancle]

George,  you are probably right but the S1 is about 10 times more attractive.

 

[60FlatTop]

For the price, I would buy the S1 if I had the space, and just park it to look at it. Work on it at your leisure with no commitment or schedule. It is a good looking car. If you have more than one car they don't have to BOTH run concurrently.

 

In Great Britain most carriage houses have two Proper Motor Cars. It increases the odds of getting the Lady to town promptly.

Bernie

 

Edit: Don't even mention it to your relative with the shop. No sense spoiling Thanksgiving and Christmas for the next few years or longer.

Edited December 16, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Digger914]

My dad was a Lincoln Mercury dealer and back when he was alive I asked him about the Rolls convert he had on the lot. I could have had it for cost but I didn't have room for two. The old man said if you're going to get one of those you better get two, you're going to need one to drive while the other is in the shop.

 

Old Lucas electric where the more you had the more work you had to do. The 51 Bentley in two tone looks great, don't remember what year it was, but I've been under the bonnet of that body style and it didn't have replaceable  glass cartridge fuses, so make sure it comes with a spool of fusing wire and keep it handy in the car.

[padgett]

Lots less rust in states that do not use salt...

[Curti]

Why do they install rear-view mirrors way up on the front fenders like that. Ya can't see any thing out of them.

[Digger914]

1 hour ago, Curti said:

Why do they install rear-view mirrors way up on the front fenders like that. Ya can't see any thing out of them.

 

You don't adjust wing mirrors to see what's behind the car, only what you can't see beside the car and better vision than any convex blind spot mirror..

[60FlatTop]

It is sunny and the roads are dry. If I had a Bentley I would have gone out earlier to fill the carbs and spill them over. By now they would have drained and the floats would be free.

 

I heard the Skinner boys did that before they picked the Lucas girls up for dates.

Bernie

[Digger914]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 10:07 AM, 60FlatTop said:

It is sunny and the roads are dry. If I had a Bentley I would have gone out earlier to fill the carbs and spill them over. By now they would have drained and the floats would be free.

 

I heard the Skinner boys did that before they picked the Lucas girls up for dates.

Bernie

 After a couple of years of fooling around with old Jag's and MG's, I thought I knew every trick in the book for keeping twin side drafts tuned and making these old SU's and Zeniths do what you want them to, but this spilling them over to free the floats is news to me and just in case you're not kidding, I'm always willing to learn something new.

[Bush Mechanic]

On 12/18/2017 at 3:07 AM, 60FlatTop said:

It is sunny and the roads are dry. If I had a Bentley I would have gone out earlier to fill the carbs and spill them over. By now they would have drained and the floats would be free.

 

I heard the Skinner boys did that before they picked the Lucas girls up for dates.

Bernie

Bernie is just stirring, Digger. And I'm biting my tongue.

[60FlatTop]

Inside jokes. But if the car sits they will flood over and fail to start. Just let them sit and they will be fine.

 

A friend of mine got an anxious tech call one spring day to the flooded effect. He asked "How long ago did you try to start it?" The owner replied something like 45 minutes. He said "Go start it. It will be alright. The car started and ran fine. The owner assumed magic afoot.

Edited December 18, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Digger914]

9 hours ago, Bush Mechanic said:

Bernie is just stirring, Digger. And I'm biting my tongue.

Bernie isn't the only one with a dry sense of humor and with the "Lucas" girls in the mix, I knew there was some tong in cheek, but a lot of truth is hidden inside of humor and even if the answer came back completely in jest, you never know when a humorous bazar fabrication will turn out to be true. Remember the neutral safety switch, you know the little switch that turns your radio off when you put the car in gear so you aren't distracted while driving. Twenty years ago I thought that was hysterical, today it's the first thing I check.

 

Though I know these things can flood, my problem with these has always been the opposite, they start fine after sitting and a mile later you're on the side of the road dropping the float bowl and prying the needle valve out of the seat.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Digger914 (see edit history)

[Bush Mechanic]

58 minutes ago, Digger914 said:

Bernie isn't the only one with a dry sense of humor and with the "Lucas" girls in the mix, I knew there was some tong in cheek, but a lot of truth is hidden inside of humor and even if the answer came back completely in jest, you never know when a humorous bazar fabrication will turn out to be true. Remember the neutral safety switch, you know the little switch that turns your radio off when you put the car in gear so you aren't distracted while driving. Twenty years ago I thought that was hysterical, today it's the first thing I check.

 

Though I know these things can flood, my problem with these has always been the opposite, they start fine after sitting and a mile later you're on the side of the road dropping the float bowl and prying the needle valve out of the seat.

 

 

Sorry Digger, I thought we were talking about SU carbs. Seriously cannot recall having that type of problem with SU's. Personally, I find them to be excellent devices, giving years of service without adjustment. Just a squirt of oil in the dash-pots occasionally, and Bob's your Uncle. Assuming they are kept in good working order, of course. 

And what a pleasant sound it is, listening to an electric SU pump fill the fuel bowls in a car that has been standing for a year. A lung-full of choke, and that fine English machinery bursts into life, aided by the ever reliable Lucas ignition system. Gets to me every time.

[alsancle]

6 hours ago, Bush Mechanic said:

And what a pleasant sound it is, listening to an electric SU pump fill the fuel bowls in a car that has been standing for a year. A lung-full of choke, and that fine English machinery bursts into life, aided by the ever reliable Lucas ignition system. Gets to me every time.

 

So true!   The tick, tick, tick, .... then varoom of a early Jag engine is absolutely the best!

[60FlatTop]

8 hours ago, Digger914 said:

a lot of truth is hidden inside of humor

 

That's the best kind of humor, especially for the irreverent.

 

SU is Skinner Union, a company formed by the union of two brothers who counted by eighths. Their carburetors were married, typically, to a Lucas fuel pump.

 

I was lucky enough to spend some times working with Roy Bertch and John Utz, a couple of legends in their time. Good mechanics are fun to make wry jokes with.

 

I miss them both.

Bernie

[Digger914]

7 hours ago, Bush Mechanic said:

Sorry Digger, I thought we were talking about SU carbs. Seriously cannot recall having that type of problem with SU's. Personally, I find them to be excellent devices, giving years of service without adjustment. Just a squirt of oil in the dash-pots occasionally, and Bob's your Uncle. Assuming they are kept in good working order, of course. 

And what a pleasant sound it is, listening to an electric SU pump fill the fuel bowls in a car that has been standing for a year. A lung-full of choke, and that fine English machinery bursts into life, aided by the ever reliable Lucas ignition system. Gets to me every time.

 

Actually it was a bit of SU knowledge and sometimes the lack thereof, mixed with a bit of auto humor.  I agree, the SU is a good carb, I prefer it over the Zenith, but down under you might not have corn mixed in your petrol like we do and for a period of time this caused problems with these carbs that other places didn't have.

[padgett]

Yes my XK had the fuel pumps conveniently located so I could turn the key on then reach under with the door open and rap a spanner against the fuel pumps to get at least one ticking.

 

Jags were the original MADD cars, too much of a load on board and you would never get it started (joke that was cut from the Gumball Rally).

[Bush Mechanic]

4 hours ago, padgett said:

Yes my XK had the fuel pumps conveniently located so I could turn the key on then reach under with the door open and rap a spanner against the fuel pumps to get at least one ticking.

 

 

Yes, standard practice for fuel pumps which were not serviced correctly. When I purchased my Morris Minor low-light convertible I had to install a piece of fencing wire through the firewall to give the pump a shake, to get it home. But those SU pumps were fine if set up correctly, and serviced.

I did have problems with the pump on an MGB, while crossing the Nullarbor Plain in the 70's. The points in it were beyond repair. We picked up a piece of hose and a 4 gallon drum from the side of the road, (plenty of them lying around in those days, due to the price of fuel out there),  and set up a gravity fuel feed from the drum on the luggage rack. Jump out, place drum on the low side, siphon fuel from the tank, tie drum back on the rack, suck hose and slip it over carby pipe, and away you go again. We did this for 1100 miles, until we could find a pump at the wreckers in Perth.

Also had a fuel pump fail on my Bug-eye Sprite out there, in earlier days when the road was rough and unsealed. But that had the AC mechanical pump fitted and I carried spare valves for it, so no real problem.

Mick.

[padgett]

Hey, I was 17 and barely knew how to change a spark plug (N-5. Often.). Rapping worked for me.

[Digger914]

Does anyone have a ball park guestimate as to what it would cost have the steering conversion done?

 

Silly as it may sound. common sense got in the way of buying a hulk when I found one that put this Bentley to shame, so I've decided to pass on the Bentley that started this string in favor of a running Bentley of the same year with an excellent interior and a very good exterior, that I could drive home for a couple grand more than it would cost to buy this old boat and have it hauled cross country.

 

Knowing my own capabilities, I have no problem tearing into a non running car that needs everything and moving the steering as part of the process, but the one I'm looking at is way to nice a car for me to  even consider doing, if I can get it done for a couple of grand by someone who already knows where to cut and drill.