Brad in Wisconsin Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Isn't there room for a bare bones vehicle like The Studebaker/Westinghouse truck or similar car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Not anymore. The cost of tooling up such a vehicle would be prohibitive for all you would sell. A stripped version of a truck from a major manufacturer is your best shot. They do make some pretty basic vehicles for fleet sales to penny pinching accountants. Ford used to make a full size six cylinder van with a 5 speed manual trans that got pretty amazing gas mileage. Dodge offers a Mercedes based diesel van that is even more economical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 My brother and I have had this discussion many many times. We refer to the T100 of the 70's............... bare bones and big 4 cylinder engine. they cost around 4k new and run and run for 100's of thousands of miles. Fact is, I agree with Rusty. No profit for any auto maker to sell a truck for under 20k. The mid size Frontier stripped goes for around 18k, if stick is acceptable. A leftover 2016 Ford 150 with auto and 6 cylinder can be had right now for about 20k. As good as it gets............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I have a 2005 Silverado that stickered for $25,000. I paid $20,000 in January '05. Retail the truck is good for $5,000 today and I could probably sell it next week. Minimal repairs have been required. So I can walk away after 12 years in January at a cost of $1250 per year. To me, that's a bargain. I can replace it in kind for $26,000, not a bad increase over 12 years. Thing is, I'm still using it. I have looked at bare bones stuff in many product types. “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.” And you have to pay a little extra up front for quality. I was looking at a cheap lawn mower the other day. A young sales person, about 24 or 25 walked over and said "Great mower, Sir. I have owned four of them. Best machine I ever owned. So I picked up a new plug for the Deere and told him I would think about it. Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I looked into buying a stripped down F250 Ford quad cab with an 8 ft. bed, std. shift. Best price I could get was 38,000 and no stick, all automatics now. Just can't buy a basic work truck anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I think the automakers blew it when they discontinued the small pickup truck. I have to believe there is still a market for a small, basic economy p/u. Datsun sold a bazillion 521s and their progeny, as did Toyota, Mazda and the rebadged American versions. Then they began to get bloated until we now have the behemoths like the Nissan Titan XD. I loved my old minitrucks and would still have one if it weren't for our need to haul our fifth wheel all over the place. I heard rumors that Ford might bring back the Ranger, but I'll bet it would be a larger, gussied up version of the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Brad in Wisconsin said: Isn't there room for a bare bones vehicle like The Studebaker/Westinghouse truck or similar car? As our own CarlLaFong mentions above the humble compact pickup suggests there is not such a market: In our area in 1991-92 you could buy a nice looking new Chevy S10 or a Ford Ranger Regular Cab, Short Bed 2wd for $9995 (probably approx. $17,995 in todays money, maybe more). This included 4 cyl manual transmission, air conditioning, AM/FM cassette, and XLT level trim with aluminum or styled wheels. Chevy and Ford each sold 200,000+ compact pickups a year and each had two factories building them, I think they all are closed now. So what happened? By 1994-95 every truck had to have airbags, 4 wheel antilock brakes and more people wanted the larger extended cab for a few thousand dollars. More people insisted on an automatic and power windows & locks. So more safety equipment had to be furnished on all vehicles, more customers demanded comfort and electronic options and the size and price kept going up until the compact market just seemed to dry up in favor of the full size models. I also would think there is a market out there and the Ranger IS coming back to compete against the Colorado/Canyon but they are neither small nor cheap, Todd C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 In the 80s and 90s Ford and Chev were selling stripped 4 cylinder standard mini trucks below cost to get their CAFE numbers up. For every 10 strippers they could sell one bloated SUV and the profits on the Navigators and Suburbans were more than the loss on the cheapies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) The public doesn't want bare bones vehicles. Even in the 60s, upscale models like the Olds Cutlass outsold loss leaders like the F85 dramatically. That's why every post coupe is advertised as "rare" today - they were unpopular even when new. Edited December 17, 2016 by joe_padavano (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 You can still buy the colorado or frontier as mentioned, but they are about the same price of a full size, depending on options. There is a reason for the demise of the Ranger and Dakota. It's called no profit..... "Great mower, Sir. I have owned four of them. Best machine I ever owned." Bernie, could the young man have owned a landscaping business on the side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdang Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 My '97 Ranger (standard cab, long bed) was beginning to show some signs of its age a couple of years ago. I went looking for a new small truck, and as has been mentioned here, there wan't one available.Therefore, I put a few bucks in my truck (brakes, ac, rear springs, exhaust) and have decided to just run it until it drops. At 265,00 miles it still needs no oil added between 5,000 mile changes. When I heard the Ranger was going to be reintroduced, I was pleased. I agree that it won't be the basic truck but something more decked out and so I wouldn't buy it anyway. Personally, I hear a bunch of guys saying they want a stripped down work truck or another small truck, but apparently not in sufficient numbers to make their voices heard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Profit seem to be running almost all companies today now more than ever. It used to be , that companies would provide a product that met the demands or needs of the buying public with the best quality and most affordable price they could and still make a profit.You used to be able to order a vehicle equipped they way you wanted, not having to buy 1 of only 2 or 3 factory packages available.I saw on a TV report when Ford was coming out with their new aluminum F series that Ford that stated that the F series was their best seller and that Ford made a profit of $10,000 on each new F150. I thought , WOW how much is too much! Of course, the dealers try to tell you that they are only making $500 but why does a new truck cost more than my house? I wanted a work truck, I didn't need 17 in. custom wheels, fancy leather interior with a carpet, Sirius radio, ABS brakes (which I hate),or any other fancy package. The base vehicle still had the computer options, electric windows and locks ( which are nice to have) and a load of other stuff I could do without. I had to go to an F250 just to get the crew cab and an 8 ft bed. I asked why they don't make the crew cab in the F150 with an 8 ft bed and they claim it would be too long! Why, they used to make them but now the buying public wants toy vehicles ( because many can't drive) with all the amenities. I just bought a new Fusion and it's like sitting in the cockpit of a jet! I still think that if the car makers would offer 1 or 2 really basic vehicles that they could sell them, especially to some younger folks that can't afford the newer cars. Most of the retail stores also have cut options of merchandise down to save money and make more profit. They've also put a lot of other manufacturing companies out of business using private label stuff to force us to buy from only a few retailers and only get what they want to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I can see why they don't make a F150 crew cab with an 8 foot bed, that is a lot of truck and you need a heavy duty chassis to carry it. There was a time when any auto maker's best selling model was the cheapest black 2 door sedan. But that was so long ago nobody can remember it. In 1965 or 66 road tester Tom McCahill asked Chevrolet for their most popular model and they gave him an Impala 2 door hardtop, white with black vinyl top, with 2 barrel 283 Powerglide power steering and power brakes. That was their best seller. If today they offer gussied up pickup trucks in only 2 or 3 option packages that is what the customers must be buying. You need to keep in mind, most vehicles today are leased or bought on low interest or no interest contracts running for 7 years. And anybody can qualify for financing. Under those conditions someone with a modest income can buy an expensive vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I bought a new 2003 S-10 that was optioned out pretty nice. I traded the little POS on a new 2005 Silverado that I am still driving 12 years later. AND completely happy with. I can guaranty there is no market for a second small inexpensive pickup at my place. Price can launch a new model. It needs satisfaction to keep a market. Corporate myopia, it just jumps out of the haze and takes them by surprise. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Those trucks come from the contractors wardrobe department. I think they have a large selection of untied work boots there, black t shirts, and distressed designer jeans. You can spot them a mile away can't you. Accountants recommend those purchases and peer pressure pushes them the rest of the way. Western New York, huh? What a bunch of cowboys you have there. A couple times a week I stop in a convenient store/gas station and have coffee with the old guys. The flow at the pumps is a never ending source of entertainment. Bernie- 12 miles north of the Thruway, turn right at the Mobil station. BTW, last week I thought I'd walk up to the Mobil for an evening snack. My Wife said "It's after dark, better wear something white." I darn near got rammed by a snow plow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 5 hours ago, jpage said: Profit seem to be running almost all companies today now more than ever. It used to be , News flash: Businesses exist to make a profit - otherwise they would be called "charities". This has always been the case. One can argue the fact that business leaders today prioritize next quarter's profits over long term growth, which is not always the right path for a company. When GM had well over 50% of the US market, they could afford to sell less profitable cars to fill out the line. Today, they can't afford that luxury. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I kinda miss those little diesel powered pick ups that could get up to about 60 MPH downhill. At least the MPG was around 40. Or the three cyl Chevettes. Good commuter cars. The trouble is that those that own them now cant keep them running well enough to make it to work on time, So they have to live in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 51 minutes ago, JACK M said: I kinda miss those little diesel powered pick ups that could get up to about 60 MPH downhill. At least the MPG was around 40. Or the three cyl Chevettes. Huh??? What "three cyl Chevettes?" The only three cylinder car ever sold by GM was the imported 1.0 liter three cylinder Geo Metro. All Chevettes were inline four cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) I gotta admit I am not a GM guy. Lets call it a Geo then. A rather small bedroom. Edited December 17, 2016 by JACK M (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I don't own or drive a 'truck' but it is obvious just from being on the road that here in NZ the pickup is one of the biggest selling classes of vehicles. The Ford Ranger - http://www.caradvice.com.au/457316/2017-ford-ranger-updates-announced-reverse-camera-on-more-variants-sync-3-euro-5-engines/ - is currently king of the hill in NZ but only by a very small margin over the Toyota HiLux, the Holden Colorado. The Mitsubishi Triton, Nissan Navara and Isuzu D-Max are not far behind. http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/84124169/nzs-top10-selling-vehicles-for-2016-so-far All of these models are built in Thailand as far as I know and are generally very well equipped, even the more 'work vehicle' intended models. For something more basic we have a choices of Mahindra from India - http://www.mahindra.co.nz/pik-up - the SsangYong from Korea - http://www.ssangyong.co.nz/vehicle-showroom/actyon-sports-ute - and from China the Foton - http://www.therural.co.nz/hunting-and-fishing/foton-tunland-4x4-road-test - and the Great Wall - http://www.greatwall.co.nz/. That is the first time I have looked at the latest Great Wall info and I see that has had a significant upgrade from the previous models - it even has heated seats! We do have a few of the big US pickups, Rams are new to the market in right hand drive - https://www.winger.co.nz/winger-news/ram-to-break-cover-in-new-zealand/. Ford did bring in some of the F Series range a few years ago, from Brazil I think, but since the Ranger has become bigger and more powerful I guess they have not seen the need. Put simply the idea of a very basic no frills pickup is history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Chevy 3 cylinder was a Sprint. Chevette was n Opel reclaimed for Argentina, now, let's see, what do they make out o Opels today? Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said: Chevy 3 cylinder was a Sprint. Chevette was n Opel reclaimed for Argentina, now, let's see, what do they make out o Opels today? Bernie The 2018 Holden Commodore - Yes I know we have got off the subject of basic pickups but the world has moved on the buyers expect more of their vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 As others have mentioned, the basic vehicle will probably never come back; as I doubt it would sell well. I realize I am in a minority, but I could do with some changes to the electronics, assuming we have to have them. No possible way for a driver to safely adjust heating, cooling, defrost, etc. while driving. This was easily accomplished years ago with the slider switches. Now if I am driving with no navigator, I have to pull over for an adjustment. Another gripe on the new vehicles electronics are the confusing *&^%$#@! pictures! You can probably get some argument, but ostensibly the Egyptians devised written language with hieroglyphics! So in 6000 years we have gone from difficult to understand hieroglyphics to difficult to understand icons! Wouldn't it be nice if in settings, one could select text; so one could actually read "front defrost". Of course it would be necessary in settings to have a sub-menu for language (this may already exist) so one could read "desescarche delantero" or even "フロントデフロスト". Surely the computer would have sufficient storage for this. Pictures could still be available for those who cannot read or write! The only way I can figure out where the heat is coming out is to try all the pictures! But since I average one new vehicle ever 12 1/2 years, I guess I am not the manufacturers primary audience. Jon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest morrisom Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 My little truck of several years favorite is the s10 chevrolet of the 90, although I have never had one (some day you get it) is very simple to repair is economical in gas consumption and is durable, for me it is a good option to buy something Second hand, I had a compact with the same system tbi and in 9 years I had it never hurt, much more durable than direct injection, I think that someday that truck will be a classic chevrolet, current models would not look out of any Japanese Toyota hilux vans are reputed to be indestructible, at least the 90's models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest morrisom Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 On 17/12/2016 at 3:46 PM, joe_padavano said: Huh??? What "three cyl Chevettes?" The only three cylinder car ever sold by GM was the imported 1.0 liter three cylinder Geo Metro. All Chevettes were inline four cylinder. The chevette in my country I have only seen them 1.6 engine 4 cylinders, some put 2000 motor, since that car model comes from the platform of the opel manta of the 70, if I was not mistaken it was the chevrolet option for the cortina ford that Has similar characteristics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 More electronics complaints: First winter I have experienced with one of the newer vehicles (2014). -5 F. this morning. Vehicle locked itself, and the vehicle is facing north, but the compass says it is facing south. Guess all this stuff (like the hideaway windshield wipers) was designed in southern California where ice is what you put in your tea glass! Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 What you get for parking at the North Pole: every way is South. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 22 hours ago, carbking said: I realize I am in a minority, but I could do with some changes to the electronics, assuming we have to have them. No possible way for a driver to safely adjust heating, cooling, defrost, etc. while driving. This was easily accomplished years ago with the slider switches. Now if I am driving with no navigator, I have to pull over for an adjustment. Another gripe on the new vehicles electronics are the confusing *&^%$#@! pictures! An elder relative needed a ride to a friends home for an overnight stay before they both left on a train trip... The relative insisted we use her newer car, as mine is "too old".... I was hoping to drive back to my home before dark, but that did not happen. As soon as it got total darkness, the dash lights were so blaring bright, that I could barely see the road. Not a clue where the bozo designers put the dash dimmer? I did not bring my reading glasses, so I could not pull over to read the owners manual... So I drove all the way home with my hand blocking the light from the dash. I learned some new swear words on the trip home. ...back when I started driving, if you were driving in total darkness, everyone knew where to reach your hand for the radio, and which knob did what, and where the dash and headlight dimmers were...on any car. My newest car is going on 47 years old now, and I still like it. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I bought a stripped down F150 long bed in 1985. It was $5995 plus tax and license. It didn't even have a radio but had power steering, a pair of outside mirrors and a step bumper. It had the 300 6cyl and a 4 speed overdrive transmission. The transmission bearings started to get noisy at about 80K and the engine had a weird noise that that sounded like the cam was spinning around loose when it was cold. It was an OK truck and was still going after getting rid of it with around 300K miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Well if Orlando experiences an EMP detonation, the Judge should still start. OTOH I have no trouble with the dash controls on my '12 Jeep, inside temp is just two rotary controls, it is all the ^&*$**^ buttons front and back on both sides of the steering wheel. Dash on my 88 Reatta is wholly digital with a 6.5" touch screen & NP. But the only real problem was returning from an all-expense-paid tour of SEA in 1970 and renting a new Olds. Had to go back into the Avis counter and ask where the ignition key went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantz Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I sell Fords for a living and bought the cheapest car we me (well okay, I went with the Hatchback rather than the Sedan). Fiesta S with crank windows, manual transmission, and standard bluetooth! It was two years ago, I think it was around $15k. I honestly love the thing. I'd be a Rambler buyer 100% if Romney had stayed around and kept the American style of cheap reliable vehicle out there. That being said, in the two years I've owned my car, we have sold zero Fiesta S models. In fact, I had to locate mine, and the closest one was 3 hours away. No one has requested information on such a vehcile either. American's don't like utility value IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantz Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Also, we have a '16 F150 4x2 sitting out front with a locking axle and nothing else. Advertised online, in Lancaster Farmer, and Commercial Truck Trader, and big painted price of $19980 on our lot. It's been here for a few months. Not trying to sell it (but feel free to contact me!) but it's a real life example of pure simple and pretty darn cheap, yet no one shows interest because they "need" 4x4 and a crew cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdang Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 22 minutes ago, Frantz said: Also, we have a '16 F150 4x2 sitting out front with a locking axle and nothing else. Advertised online, in Lancaster Farmer, and Commercial Truck Trader, and big painted price of $19980 on our lot. It's been here for a few months. Not trying to sell it (but feel free to contact me!) but it's a real life example of pure simple and pretty darn cheap, yet no one shows interest because they "need" 4x4 and a crew cab. What kind of mpg does this truck get? My old faithful Ranger ('97) still gets around 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Franz - send it to Florida (as long as has AC). We have more 4x2 Jeeps like mine here than anywhere else. Lot less to bother with and gets 1 mpg better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 A couple of relatives whom were always big Ford fans bought new Ford pickups in the early 2000's. Hardware parts, like brake components rusted and fell off the car onto the driveway during the night.. I know they told some friends. It might not be the option configuration that keeps them away. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantz Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Quote What kind of mpg does this truck get? My old faithful Ranger ('97) still gets around 25. It's the base 3.5 so not as good as the 2.7 ecoboost does. Rated 25 highway, 18 city. Nice little truck... I've toyed with the idea but it's my wife's turn for the next new car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantz Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Quote A couple of relatives whom were always big Ford fans bought new Ford pickups in the early 2000's. Hardware parts, like brake components rusted and fell off the car onto the driveway during the night.. I know they told some friends. It might not be the option configuration that keeps them away. You're absolutely right! Ford has been the best selling truck for 40 years because their trucks are junk even though they cost more than the competition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Had to rent a truck recently (long story) and my only stipulation was an 8 foot box. Met the rental guy and walked out to find this. WAAAY overkill. This land yacht I think is longer than my '58 Buick Limited?! Nothing "basic wheels" about this: 5.7 L gas Hemi, 4 wheel drive, Dash that looks like the cockpit of a 747 or bigger?, heated front and back seats, power this, power that, video in-dash back up camera, and on and on.... I'm sure it is waaay more than my house cost me in 1985. The guy said it was just below half and he filled it up costing 85 Bucks Cdn. Call will be in first thing in the morning for something more realistic if it can be had this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 now see leftover 2016 f150s with 6 cyl and auto on ebay-new- for 18,500. plus tax and tags. MD dealer cant beat that wit a baseball bat! might even buy one..........................though I prefer 4 whl drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantz Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Quote now see leftover 2016 f150s with 6 cyl and auto on ebay-new- for 18,500. plus tax and tags. MD dealer cant beat that wit a baseball bat It's about the same deal I offered actually. New car shopping is nearly impossible to compare apples to apples across state lines. States have different laws, as well as tendencies. For example, I know both Maryland and Virginia don't include the destination charge in advertisements, which on a F150 is $1195, even though its on the window sticker. Additionally Maryland and VA have higher doc fees than many other states (though not the highest I've seen). Toss in an extra $500 rebate you probably don't qualify for and bam! You're actually a good bit more expensive. While there are in fact some amazing deals on old inventory to those willing to travels, I'd place any size wager that a majority of "great deals" people travel for, could have been had at their favored local shop, and you'll get a salesperson who might actually look out for your ownership experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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