Classic Car Deals, Cadillac Michigan

[scott12180]

Is anyone familiar with or has anyone bought a car through a consignment dealer called
"Classic Car Deals" located in Cadillac, Michigan up near Traverse City? 

http://www.classiccardeals.com/Default.aspx

 

They have a car listed which I am interested in, but I experienced a rather "odd" phone conversation with someone with a lot of what seemed "canned" background noise.  But what was of concern was that I think they didn't want to let me speak to the car's owner or give me his location until I paid them $1000 as a refundable deposit.  

 

Frankly, before I give anyone money, I need to know the car exists and the owner is a real person in a real place.  Too many scams around to just toss around a Grand.

[D Yaros]

Have never heard of, or had contact with, this entity.  A $35K asking price for a 1962 Olds "resto-mod" Starfire?  It speaks for itself IMHO.

[Guest AlCapone]

Is anyone familiar with or has anyone bought a car through a consignment dealer called

"Classic Car Deals" located in Cadillac, Michigan up near Traverse City? 

http://www.classiccardeals.com/Default.aspx

 

They have a car listed which I am interested in, but I experienced a rather "odd" phone conversation with someone with a lot of what seemed "canned" background noise.  But what was of concern was that I think they didn't want to let me speak to the car's owner or give me his location until I paid them $1000 as a refundable deposit.  

 

Frankly, before I give anyone money, I need to know the car exists and the owner is a real person in a real place.  Too many scams around to just toss around a Grand.

Don't walk, run from this dealer or we will be reading a post from you in the future wanting to know how to get your money back. Wayne

[vermontboy]

What  Wayne said - read their FAQ page. They will not let you talk to the owner so they control the sale. They claim that the owner consigns with them to avoid talking to you. It is also apparent that they have never seen the car so it will be a long back and forth. All they do is list and run interference.

 

Why anyone would ever consign with them .... who knows ?

[jeff_a]

Sounds like a great racket, as Big Al in Chicago used to say. If all of the 70,000 AACA forum members inquire about one of their cars(like the 1979 Toyota Corolla they have for 7 grand), and ask to speak with the owner, they pocket 70 million bucks and we wait to see how long till we get our deposits back...if it was a car we decided not to buy. 

[Matt Harwood]

That's exactly why my clients work with me--they don't want to deal with the process or the buyers, they just want the car to go away. I don't think I'm doing anything shady by providing such a service and respecting their privacy. When you bought your house, did you demand to speak to the people who lived there or did you talk to your realtor to get answers? Did you do an end-run around the realtor and cut a deal directly with the homeowners or did you tell your realtor how much you were offering and he/she went to the sellers and handled the transaction (cue the irrelevant anecdotal story from the guy who bought a FSBO). There's absolutely nothing wrong with sellers who don't want to participate the process of selling a car and nothing wrong with a dealer acting as an intermediary between the public and that seller. If you have questions, I'll answer them or I'll get the answer and report back to you, but I'm not going to put every tire-kicker who calls through to someone who doesn't want to be bothered by them. On average, it usually takes 40-50 inquiries to get each car sold. Should every one of those guys get a direct line to the seller just to get answers that I can supply?

 

Alternatively, if you're 95% sure you want the car, and a talk with the owner is what would cement the deal for you, we can make it happen (as can this dealer, I'm sure). But for a general inquiry or a maybe-just-kind-of-interested inquiry? How is the owner telling you something more critical than the same information coming from a dealer? Up front isn't the time to demand to talk to an owner, it's the last step once you've covered everything else you can with the dealer, including a personal inspection, and are 95% certain you want the car.

 

So no, I don't think it's "running interference" and controlling the situation. It's protecting a client's privacy and handling the sale in a professional manner. I also deliver value above and beyond simply being a money-handler. International shipping? No problem. Financing? Can do! Trades? Yes, I'll take that and give you this. Follow-up service? If the car isn't what I said it is, I'll make it right, no questions asked.

 

A deposit demonstrates the seriousness of the buyer before they spend the time and get the owner involved. If I called a car owner every time someone inquired about their car, my clients would have to have a special Bat-Phone hotline from my desk to theirs. The refundable deposit merely weeds out the dreamers and tire-kickers (not that Scott is such a person, but that's the intent of the refundable deposit). And if you put it on your credit card, you have an easy way to get it back if things go sideways.

 

In several situations when someone absolutely, positively HAD to talk to an owner before they would conclude the deal, I asked the owner if they would be amenable to it. They usually are. However, I'll also say that in every single one of those cases, at some point the potential buyer said to the owner, "Hey, what does it take to buy that car, you know, skip the sales guy's commission and all, just cash money between you and me?" It's why my marketing agreement has a termination clause that pays me a significant chunk of change if the owner decides to play those games. I work hard for my money, I'm honest, and I deliver results for my sellers and quality cars for my buyers. I'm allowed to get paid, even if the buyer thinks he shouldn't have to pay for those services.

 

I don't know this dealer, I'm not defending him or condemning him. I'm just saying that what he does and his procedure is not out of the ordinary and doesn't suggest that he's in the business of collecting deposits and disappearing with them. He's just trying to keep the vast majority of inquiries that go nowhere from overwhelming his clients.

[John_S_in_Penna]

That's exactly why my clients work with me--they don't want to deal with the process or the buyers, they just want the car to go away....

 

So no, I don't think it's "running interference" and controlling the situation. It's protecting a client's privacy and handling the sale in a professional manner. 

 

That seller's practice, in my opinion,

amounts to a $1000 charge to talk to the car's owner!

At least it's refundable, so he's evidently not out

simply to make money from deposits.  

 

Matt's method above probably works for a lot of people.

In buying antique cars, I've always purchased from owners.

Talking to an owner, you can sense whether he's being

honest or evasive;  how much he knows about the car;

how well he has cared for the car.  Then if you buy it,

much of that knowledge can be passed on to you.

If he has owned the car for 20 years, been enthusiastic in the hobby,

and put money into it for the love of it, he's my kind of guy! 

Going through a middleman reduces this helpful

interaction and assessment of the owner.

 

Just as owners often want their long-time loves to go to

a good home, so careful buyers may want a car that HAD a good home.

 

I wouldn't mind dealing with a conscientious dealer, but

I'd have dozens of questions for him to relay to the owner.

Edited March 4, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

After further investigation, I suspect "Classic Car Deals" isn't

really a dealer, but is more of a secondary listing service

that somehow is trying to get a commission from

ads placed legitimately elsewhere.

His website claims that he has 976 Chevrolets

and 705 Fords currently in stock--among others!

Clearly he doesn't know all those cars and

can't tell an prospective buyer all about them as a dealer could.

 

I think he just compiled, unasked, the information

from other ads.  I wouldn't go through him.

 

Here's a clue:  I searched Google Images to see whether "his"

photos were listed elsewhere.  An example:  a brown 1970 Buick

Electra convertible which he "lists" is also listed on our AACA Forum

and www.carsforsale.com.

 

Compare these two listings:

 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/260289-1970-buick-electra-225/

 

http://www.classiccardeals.com/Vehicle/location-Cadillac-Michigan-vehiclesforsale/121681/1970-Buick-Electra-225-Convertible.aspx

Edited March 4, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[HuntzNSam]

Look familiar?

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/5430955807.html

[vermontboy]

Matt,

 

Unless I am mistaken I believe that you have at least seen the cars that you list. They make it clear that the cars are not at their location but are still with the owners. I don't think that they have actually seen any of the cars.

 

John_S_in_Penna

 

" I wonder whether all those car owners really have listed their cars with him;  or whether he's just a  secondary listing service that, unasked, compiled the information from other ads and is trying to make a commission."

 

I think that is the case. Last summer I went to look at a car and the owner asked how I knew it was for sale as he had pulled it off Craigslist several months before. It was on one of the more well known sites but listed by  a broker. It did have an email link and listed where the car was located but he had no idea that there was a live ad. He had had a call when he first listed it offering to list the car for a $400 fee. He declined but they apparently listed it anyway. Odd way to do business.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited March 4, 2016 by vermontboy (see edit history)

[Guest]

A quick text to the seller in Phoenix confirms he is working with the dealer in Michigan. This must be what happens when you respond to those people who e-mail you saying "let me help you sell your car".

[John_S_in_Penna]

Did you know that, with Google, you can search PICTURES?

This technique is handy.

 

I don't mean search FOR a picture;  I mean actually search

pictures.

 

If you go to Google Images, and then click on the little

"camera" symbol in the search box, you can then 

specify a URL (website address).  Instead, I specify a file name

which I had saved on my computer--say a picture of the

brown 1970 Buick Electra (to which I referred in Posting #9 above).

 

Google will then tell you all the places on the internet

where that photo is.

 

That way, I was able to see that the photos which Classic Car Deals

claimed as their own were also posted on other websites.

Edited March 4, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[D Yaros]

I do not understand how this guy can list a car for sale at a price higher than the  owner/seller has it listed elsewhere?

 

Once he gets someone on the hook does he then buy the car from the owner/seller at a price lower than the owner/seller has it listed, or does he call the owner/seller and say I have a buyer for your car at X dollars?

 

I can't imagine him listing cars for sale without authorization from the owner/seller?

 

More info is needed, it seems?

[John_S_in_Penna]

I do not understand how this guy can list a car for sale at a price higher than the  owner/seller has it listed elsewhere?

 

I called up that dealer (broker) and asked about his services.

I detected nothing shady, though I can't vouch for their character.

He said that the price difference was how they made their money.

 

He said they call car sellers and get their permission to list with them.

 

For example, the brown 1970 Buick Electra convertible is for sale

by the owner--on our own Forum!--for $14,400, yet Classic Car Deals

has $16,995 posted on their website for the very same car.

I don't see any value in their services, since the cars are already listed

elsewhere for less! 

[bob duffer]

I googled the phone number and it came up with this address :

 

180 Works Ave

Cadillac, MI 49601-1048

 

I googled the address and it came up  A UHAUL Company.

 

You decide from there.

[John_S_in_Penna]

I googled the phone number and it came up with this address :

 

180 Works Ave

Cadillac, MI 49601-1048

 

I googled the address and it came up  A UHAUL Company.

 

You decide from there.

 

We're doing some good sleuthing on this thread!

[60FlatTop]

I like the layout of the website.

 

But cars are pretty easy to find online. Probably the absolute best idea would be paying me $1,000 a day plus expenses to help you find and thoroughly inspect the car you want. I can usually free up the time on short notice.

 

I am a real pain when it comes to details so when I read this "Classic Car Deals was created to help one Enthusiast Purchase there Dream Car from another Enthusiast." on the site the tips of my ears vibrated.

 

For a long time I have said, you have to look at 100 cars to find a good one. Screening a bunch online sure helps.

Bernie

Classic Car Deals was created to help one Enthusiast Purchase there Dream Car from another Enthusiast.Classic Car Deals was created to help one Enthusiast Purchase there Dream Car from another Enthusiast."Classic Car Deals was created to help one Enthusiast Purchase there Dream Car from another Enthusiast.Classic Car Deals was created to help one Enthusiast Purchase there Dream Car from another Enthusiast.

[junkyardjeff]

When I was trying to sell a 65 country squire I had someone contact me with a similar deal trying to help me sell it but never did send them any pictures.

[Guest audiobag]

I called about a car and they were very enthusiastic about helping until said I wanted to pay for an inspection first and they said they could work with that but had to give the "refundable" deposit first and would get back to me which they never did. Sounds shady.

[John_S_in_Penna]

5 hours ago, audiobag said:

I called about a car and they were very enthusiastic about helping until said I wanted to pay for an inspection first and they said they could work with that but had to give the "refundable" deposit first and would get back to me which they never did. Sounds shady.

 

I agree that that's a bad practice:  It's like you're almost committing

to buying the car before you can inspect it!  Clearly it should be

the other way around.

 

Remember:  They don't have the car.  And from what we've seen,

they're DUPLICATING the owner's selling effort, not selling for him on consignment.

The car is probably for sale by the owner somewhere else on the internet.

 

Edited April 5, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Guest John Beebe]

Just came across this, My name is John Beebe Owner of Classic Car Deals http://www.classiccardeals.com/Default.aspx

and Live Auto Auctions http://www.liveautoauctions.com/Default.aspx

Check out my reviews on Cars.com here is direct link https://www.cars.com/dealers/5366553/classic-car-deals/reviews/

Yes true I represent the owner and every owner that I sell for gives me permission to sell and market there vehicle. Everyone has a option to view the cars first. But we are a honest company that if a car is not what the owner says it is, And the owner does not help out with the problems that was not mentioned then we do. We want every customer to be happy with there purchase. So give us a try, please just dont assume we are shady, I have a showroom with about 20 cars that we own the rest are owned by our clients and the cars stay at there house. See the photos below.

Yes we make a commission in the middle but your money is safe with us. If you buy a car off craigslist and the owner does not tell you right about the car I guarantee in most cases the seller will not care and leave you hanging. Not me, we have never been to court.  So any how. we are the most legit company you will find. Thanks and Have a Merry Christmas

 

 

 

 

[Guest John Beebe]

I would like to Add we have 1000's of happy buyers and sellers all over the USA, Its free to consign to our site and we pay all the advertising cost on 75 plus websites. if the owner sells it on there own they dont owe us a dime even though i spent money advertising the vehicle. If I sell to one of my buyers Yes CCD makes commission. But dealing with a Bonded Licensed company you are protected. and we stand by our Satisfaction Guaranteed.

 

Quick Story

I had a car once I sold for a client in California, Buyer asked about Rust, We asked the owner they said NO. We told the buyer NO. he got the car and there was Rust. Owner stuck his tail between his legs and ran away, But not us. I stepped up to the plate and bought the car back and resold explaining where the rust was. I lost Money yes but I am honest and Dont lie. Unless the Owner Lies to me. Unfortunately everyone is not honest in this world, but not me. My Word is My Word. this is just one bad case of a seller out of 100's of good sellers.

[trimacar]

I have no dog in this hunt, but am curious, John Beebe, why you post a picture of an expired dealer's license? It expired 12/31/2017.  Do you have a current license?

[West Peterson]

David

It wasn't expired at the time he posted it.

[Curti]

Rocketboy seems to have a dog in the hunt ?

[trimacar]

4 hours ago, West Peterson said:

David

It wasn't expired at the time he posted it.

Aw sheesh, thought I was reading new posts, sorry....

[Jim Skelly]

I've found that most classic cars ads that I look at on Autotrader involve this dealer - apparently because we are in the same state.  

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

I've found that most classic cars ads that I look at on Autotrader involve this dealer - apparently because we are in the same state.  

 

I noticed that, too, Jim, and I'm in Pennsylvania.

How disappointing!  Autotrader used to be pretty good.

[Jim Skelly]

John,

 

Advertising dollars talk and another good website bites the dust!  

[padgett]

Facebook is taking over.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Update:  "Classic Car Deals" is still at it, trying to sell

other people's (or other dealers') cars.  It's especially

absurd when on one for-sale website, the very same

car is advertised by a dealer and then also listed--

for more money--by Classic Car Deals.  A mark-up 

on top of a mark-up!

 

Here's an example:  A 1955 Chrysler Windsor sedan

for $17,500 (too high) by dealer Classic Car Barn;

and then the same car, with the same pictures, offered

by Classic Car Deals for $21,495.  You can pay $4000

extra for no useful purpose at all!

 

https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/10523114

 

https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/97086735

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[yachtflame]

On 12/22/2017 at 10:15 AM, Guest John Beebe said:

Just came across this, My name is John Beebe Owner of Classic Car Deals http://www.classiccardeals.com/Default.aspx

and Live Auto Auctions http://www.liveautoauctions.com/Default.aspx

Check out my reviews on Cars.com here is direct link https://www.cars.com/dealers/5366553/classic-car-deals/reviews/

Yes true I represent the owner and every owner that I sell for gives me permission to sell and market there vehicle. Everyone has a option to view the cars first. But we are a honest company that if a car is not what the owner says it is, And the owner does not help out with the problems that was not mentioned then we do. We want every customer to be happy with there purchase. So give us a try, please just dont assume we are shady, I have a showroom with about 20 cars that we own the rest are owned by our clients and the cars stay at there house. See the photos below.

Yes we make a commission in the middle but your money is safe with us. If you buy a car off craigslist and the owner does not tell you right about the car I guarantee in most cases the seller will not care and leave you hanging. Not me, we have never been to court.  So any how. we are the most legit company you will find. Thanks and Have a Merry Christmas

 

 

 

 

 

[yachtflame]

I found a 1948 Jaguar (listed wrong, was actually a ‘49) listed on the CLC forum. I was intrigued by the photos even though it was listed on the Cadillac site. I contacted the seller and was discussing the car. He wanted a 33% down payment before I could look at the car. His answers weren’t as precise as they should’ve been if he had the car in front of him. I did some research and found that he’d listed it on eBay also. I asked more specific questions and asked for specific photos. The seller started stalling but still insisted on a 33% deposit before proceeding. I did a bunch more searching on the web and found it listed by a classic car sales shop in Washington State. I called them and they indeed had the car and was selling if for the owner. They had never heard of the CLC/eBay seller. They contacted the owner who had never heard of him either. 
 The car was at the collector car showroom and sent me the photos I wanted. They provided the answers that I was after and if they didn’t know, got them from the owner and got back to me. I eventually bought the car through the collector car company as they were acting as the intermediary for the owner. They did their job and I was comfortable buying from them as they had a reputation to lose if things weren’t correct which the owner wouldn’t. 
 As for the other guy who had listed it, the collector car company contact both eBay and the CLC and shut down his ads. It seems this fellow would find car listed for sale, would advertise them at a much higher price, get a buyer to send 33% so he could put a deposit on the car and then flip it if it went farther. If things went south, he had the 33% and would just disappear 

[TAKerry]

18 minutes ago, yachtflame said:

I found a 1948 Jaguar (listed wrong, was actually a ‘49) listed on the CLC forum. I was intrigued by the photos even though it was listed on the Cadillac site. I contacted the seller and was discussing the car. He wanted a 33% down payment before I could look at the car. His answers weren’t as precise as they should’ve been if he had the car in front of him. I did some research and found that he’d listed it on eBay also. I asked more specific questions and asked for specific photos. The seller started stalling but still insisted on a 33% deposit before proceeding. I did a bunch more searching on the web and found it listed by a classic car sales shop in Washington State. I called them and they indeed had the car and was selling if for the owner. They had never heard of the CLC/eBay seller. They contacted the owner who had never heard of him either. 
 The car was at the collector car showroom and sent me the photos I wanted. They provided the answers that I was after and if they didn’t know, got them from the owner and got back to me. I eventually bought the car through the collector car company as they were acting as the intermediary for the owner. They did their job and I was comfortable buying from them as they had a reputation to lose if things weren’t correct which the owner wouldn’t. 
 As for the other guy who had listed it, the collector car company contact both eBay and the CLC and shut down his ads. It seems this fellow would find car listed for sale, would advertise them at a much higher price, get a buyer to send 33% so he could put a deposit on the car and then flip it if it went farther. If things went south, he had the 33% and would just disappear 

I have heard of this before. The person advertises cars for sale that he finds listed elsewhere, if he gets a bite and actually gets a buyer he then buys the car has shipping arranged not to him but to his buyer, makes a few dollars for a few minutes of work. Not sure how legal all this is (NOT) def not very ethical!!

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 10/3/2023 at 7:44 AM, TAKerry said:

Not sure how legal all this is (NOT) def not very ethical!!

If Classic Car Deals (or an equivalent) has a contract

with the real seller, then their work should be legal.

If they merely take others' photos without permission

and represent them as their own, I don't see how it's legal.

 

Regardless, they perform no useful service for anyone;

and an extra layer of mark-up hurts the hobby even further.

A dollar should be earned by performing a needed service,

not by merely attaching to someone else for some free money.

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[dodge28]

This is a big scam. Unless the middleman gives you the owner's name and address , phone number. You need tohave certain information. Clean title , Has the car been in accident ? how long has been in his posesion.  The middleman can ask the buyer  for a finders fee.

If not take a que from "Bolton"

[Paul Dobbin]

  Ten years ago. when searching for a 57 Ranchero, I spoke with a seller of one in Montana  who gave me enough information to eliminate it

   from my list.   Later I saw it listed in Cadillac, Michigan.   Same pictures and description.   i called about it and the information was a  little

   blurred, but they did tell me the car was not on their lot and they could get the answers quickly.   A long distance consignment,  I passed

   again.

   I've had calls before when I had a car for sale and was told they could sell my car for me.   I guess that's how it works with some, unlike

   Harwood Motors and other consignment dealers.

   I prefer that the selling agent at least has access to, and first had knowledge of the vehicle.    Consignments are fine, but they're not all

   the same.   Ask a  lot of questions.