jim ratsoy's collection going to china !!!

[PONTIAC1953]

i can't believe, that in all this country, no one here in the states was able to outbid the chinese bidder for jim ratsoy's 100 classic car collection. so sad to cars like a 1958 pontiac bonneville convertible, and a 1958 buick limited convertible get taken to china. 1957 GMC sport truck, 1931 cadillac V12, one of only 76 1960 edsel convertible. the list goes on and on. the collection has been in canada.

[1912Staver]

I found the news quite odd myself. The collection is local to me and I had not even heard it was for sale. Mind you I, like most of us would be hard pressed to buy even one of the cars let alone the whole thing. I had no idea a Chinese buyer would have been interested. They do seem to have purchasing power. Just look at their purchase of BILLIONS of dollars of Western Canada real estate. Local buyers are more or less priced out of the Vancouver city market.

Greg in Canada

[Guest AlCapone]

With all due respect possibly it was the manner in. Which it was sold. If it had been sold individually instead of collectively possibly many of the cars would have remained in North America. In the present economy cars are not the safest investment. It has been said many times even on this site that collector cars should be bought to be enjoyed because they are a poor investment. Just my opinion. Wayne

[1912Staver]

I agree completely. The number of possible buyers of a higher grade, 100 car collection must be a fairly small group. Even if you had the money it is unlikely all the cars would be cars you would wish to own. The group purchase price would need to be on the low side to cover the trouble and expense of marketing the "culls" from the collection. I doubt there is much of a vintage car support industry in mainland China if the buyer took them all home. Would they just become static display pieces?

Greg in Canada

[Buffalowed Bill]

Anyone know the reason behind the sale? Jim always seemed so dedicated to what he had put together.

[Buffalowed Bill]

I just Goggled Jim Ratsoy and realized that old age and lack of family interest precipitated the sale. Was I the only person in the old car world that hadn't heard about the collection being for sale? Was it advertised in any of the publications. It would seem to me that with the strength of the US dollar, there would have been some interested parties from south of the border!

That brings up a question that I have asked in the past, and not received an answer. With the strong dollar are any cars coming back to the US, or is it still a one way street with cars leaving, never to return again? I have heard that some countries consider antique cars to be an historical artifact and make it very difficult for their sale outside the country.

[8E45E]

I have noticed LOTS of American cars have also gone to England, Australia, and Sweden as well in the past few years.

Craig

[jajolee]

I have noticed LOTS of American cars have also gone to England, Australia, and Sweden as well in the past few years.

Craig

I think thats because in the us old cars get crushed and junkyards cleared

but thats my 2 cents

jan

[1912Staver]

If you think the U.S. is bad for collector car exports to other countries take a look at Canada. We don't have all that many to start with and the Canadian $ is very low. British sports cars and motorcycles have been leaving in substantial numbers for years, mainly to Europe and Australia. Many of the younger generation are in a economic quick sand pit due to the sky high Canadian real estate market, so there is little disposable income for frills like old cars. A few high end cars come in ; purchased by people who are very wealthy, but many of the bread and butter cars are being exported.

Greg in Canada

[John_S_in_Penna]

A weak dollar and strong European currencies certainly helped the

outflow of cars from America. That made them cheaper for foreign buyers.

Currency fluctuates, and the American dollar is currently

gaining some more value against the euro. A year or two ago the euro

was worth (I'm stating from memory) around US$1.36; it's currently worth

US $1.08 according to the latest Wall Street Journal.

Yes, that's a gain for the U. S. dollar, but in historical perspective,

the euro is still fairly strong.

Around the time that the euro first came out, I recall that it and the

dollar were about even (US$1.00). There was a period afterward

that the euro was worth substantially less than a dollar.

If we have a sustained period where the euro is worth US$0.80, say,

then we might see a lot of overseas American cars come back.

Whether that occurs in one year, 10 years, or 40 years, who knows?

We'll see!

[alsancle]

Unless it is a nation treasure, a certain weymann bodied Cord L29 hiding in the middle east comes to mind, I'm not going to get too upset over an Edsel and a V12 Caddy going to China.

[Bleach]

Times have really changed. It used to be that China just bought our junk cars as scrap metal just to make more junk.

[Bhigdog]

It's a world economy and money talks...............Bob

[Buffalowed Bill]

Jan,

I have to disagree with the statement that you made about cars being crushed in the US. Part of the process of maintaining a healthy auto industry is the eventual recycling of no longer useful vehicles. Cars in Western Europe are no less likely to be scrapped then are cars in the US. As a matter of fact lack of open space for storage in WE probably make it more likely. Unfortunately we are all aware that some cars that shouldn't be scrapped slip through the cracks, but realistically most cars that are crushed are crushed for a good reason.

I am quite sure that if anyone, from around the world, was inclined to scour the wrecking yards in North America, the wrecking yard owners would be only too happy to them sell some of their inventory. Unfortunately, I see no more propensity on the part of foreign car collectors to want to restore cars then anyone in NA. What this has meant is that the foreign buyer is after the very best car that he can get, and wants nothing to do with a car in the wrecking yard that he might have to restore. So most of the job of saving and restoring of cars falls on folks in North America. I am well aware of the efforts that some folks from Down Under and the Uk have made in saving and restoring cars that were imported into their countries when they were new, but the numbers are really quite small in comparison.

[earl e rizer]

The cars are going to a museum in China. They are not going to another planet. No one in Canada or elsewhere stepped up to the plate to pay what he wanted for the cars so obviously someone thought they were worth his price and paid. End of story. I have no problem with people in China getting to see and admire the vehicles we once built and owned here. It may give them a better understanding of us and our culture. Face facts, we have NO shortage of old cars, just buyers!!

[John_S_in_Penna]

If American cars go overseas, I'm a bit more comfortable

when they go to stable countries such as Finland, Sweden,

Australia, and so on.

Communists have had a historical tendency to seize private

property; some other countries have unstable regimes, have

less rule of law and order, have occasional uprisings. We can

be grateful for what we have, and hope the new Chinese owners

(and their government) will be as careful as we.

[Studemax]

It's a world economy and money talks.............

AMEN. And the sooner our hobby wises up to this, the better.

If an American wants to keep it here, pony up or shut up.

Right now the ChiComs have dollars burning holes in their pockets.

I don't fault them at all for buying them.

[Buffalowed Bill]

How was the sale advertised? Nobody has answered the question that I asked yesterday, who knew that it was for sale? When I Google Jim Ratsoy there is nothing that comes up that I would use for a resource that would have given me, or anyone that I know, a heads up that the collection was for sale. The Chinese buyer must have had some unadvertised information, and made an offer that Jim could not refuse. Of course it is his collection and he can has the right to do what he wants with it, but "pony up or shut up," seems inappropriate if nobody was aware of the impending sale. Who knew?

[John_S_in_Penna]

Good question, Bill.

I like to see collections like this, if they're not going to be

kept together, sold to hobbyists. I know of a situation

currently in an AACA region where a widow is thinking of

selling her husband's collection to a classic-car dealer--who

may have more affection for money than for the cars, and

who will likely put absurdly high asking prices on the cars

in the attempt to get the bottom dollar. The dealer may be

honest, but getting reasonably priced cars into the garages

of people who will enjoy them and show them doesn't need

a middleman!

[dictator27]

I live about half an hour from the Ratsoy collection and to the best of my knowledge the only "advertising" was word of mouth. The Chinese "nouveau riche" have been interested in buying anything and everything in the Vancouver area for years. As 1912staver says, they are singlehandedly forcing the price of real estate up to astronomical levels here. They will often make bids well above the actual asking price for a property.

My wife works with a woman from China. She and her husband are here for three reasons: complete their post secondary education, get around the Chinese one child policy (they have two Canadian born sons) and buy real estate. They live in a $2 million, 5000 square foot home in a nice, but not high end neighbourhood and she told my wife that to them that was a bargain price for something that big. She said two million dollars in Shanghai would buy them a 600 square foot one bedroom apartment.

I think someone from China heard about the collection and gave Jim Ratsoy an offer he couldn't refuse.

Terry

[jeff_a]

I don't know who Jim Ratsoy is and would have probably never have known he had a collection until this discussion. I'd have to see a complete list of the vehicles to see if it was a national treasure or not, like alsancle from Massachusetts says. I suppose if the Chinese businessman had bought a collection like Al Ferrara's*, I would have to say he had good taste, but I'd still feel a little like the Egyptians when Europeans started hauling ancient artwork away to display in London, Paris and Rome in the 1800s.

There was a discussion here just 2 or 3 years ago about someone wanting to sell a 50- or 60-year old American car to someone in China and the consensus was that it was impossible because of an import restriction forbidding used cars less than a hundred years old to come in. I can't remember the details...maybe new cars yes, but nothing between 5- and 100-years-old. Did they change the law, or is it like people here who bend the rules a little if they have enough influence?

*An important but little-known private collection in Ohio about five or ten years ago. Matt Harwood used to live two doors down from him.

[Restorer32]

Can anyone here honestly say they would turn down a significantly higher offer from a foreign national so they could sell their car to an American?

[Guest exbcmc]

I have noticed LOTS of American cars have also gone to England, Australia, and Sweden as well in the past few years.

Craig

I know my sons in laws don't give a darn about old cars.....I'm doing my best to get my grandsons involved, but they have to collect 73 Corollas....

[1937hd45]

Cars come and go, no big deal, I just wonder what it will cost to ship the collection to its new home. Bob

[8E45E]

If an American wants to keep it here, pony up or shut up.

Right now the ChiComs have dollars burning holes in their pockets.

I don't fault them at all for buying them.

Agreed! I guess if one wants to go see them, they'll have 'pony up' some cash to do so, and I don't have a problem with that.

I've been to some fantastic auto museums here in North America, and am looking forward to visiting some in Europe in a few years' time, and now, China will have to be on the list. http://www.shautocity.com/english/jcbl.htm

Craig

[Restorer32]

Cars come and go, no big deal, I just wonder what it will cost to ship the collection to its new home. Bob

Probably not as much as you might think. Thousands of containers come here from China and return empty because there isn't freight to fill them. Some are even sold after a single one way trip.

[vintagerodshop]

I had heard the Ratsoy collection was available and went to see jim to talk about a possible complete purchase. I was not new to this purchasing model but you have to understand who the seller was. Jim is a man in his 80's who through out the course of his career started numerous car dealerships in at least three different provinces. His dad owned at least one dodge brothers and one ford dealer. Jim is the perfect example of the car salesman. If any one is purchasing 100 plus cars in a bulk purchase plus a vintage music machine collection worth over 250,000 and a lot of vintage gas and oil collectibles you have to look at the logistics of handling and processing it. I approached the purchase from a business stand point and there would be no way to come to terms. If you were looking at it purely on a desire or i want / instant gratification then it would be different. I am confident the offshore purchaser paid at least 140% of value. don't get me wrong Jim is a great guy but he is a very shrewd business man.

Kirk

[vintagerodshop]

How was the sale advertised? Nobody has answered the question that I asked yesterday, who knew that it was for sale? When I Google Jim Ratsoy there is nothing that comes up that I would use for a resource that would have given me, or anyone that I know, a heads up that the collection was for sale. The Chinese buyer must have had some unadvertised information, and made an offer that Jim could not refuse. Of course it is his collection and he can has the right to do what he wants with it, but "pony up or shut up," seems inappropriate if nobody was aware of the impending sale. Who knew?

The potential players in this industry that could handle the sale new they were available.

[John_S_in_Penna]

That's good first-hand insight, Mr. Vintagerodshop!

[60FlatTop]

Nice to see a few bucks coming into the Untied States from another country. It seems like it has worked the other way more frequently. Sometimes the bucks go out and we get nothing in return. Any chance of talking them into some more stuff, a new car, a radio, TV, maybe a computer?

Can't begrudge them the good taste to buy the Limited, though. And they seem to be the drivers that keep Buick from following Olds and Pontiac down the tubes.

I just hope they don't run a pipeline across their western Canadian real estate and ruin my view of Lake Ontario. They need fresh water more than they need old cars.

Bernie

[vintagerodshop]

Nice to see a few bucks coming into the Untied States from another country. It seems like it has worked the other way more frequently. Sometimes the bucks go out and we get nothing in return. Any chance of talking them into some more stuff, a new car, a radio, TV, maybe a computer?

Can't begrudge them the good taste to buy the Limited, though. And they seem to be the drivers that keep Buick from following Olds and Pontiac down the tubes.

I just hope they don't run a pipeline across their western Canadian real estate and ruin my view of Lake Ontario. They need fresh water more than they need old cars.

Bernie

The car collection in question was a Canadian collection. So no money was to come into the us. I also feel you do not have a good grasp of Canadian Geography. How would a Pipeline in western Canada {which is needed by the way} ruin your view of lake Ontario? Also the western Canada fresh water supply has no bearing on lake Ontario?

[dictator27]

Nice to see a few bucks coming into the Untied States from another country. It seems like it has worked the other way more frequently. Sometimes the bucks go out and we get nothing in return. Any chance of talking them into some more stuff, a new car, a radio, TV, maybe a computer?

Can't begrudge them the good taste to buy the Limited, though. And they seem to be the drivers that keep Buick from following Olds and Pontiac down the tubes.

I just hope they don't run a pipeline across their western Canadian real estate and ruin my view of Lake Ontario. They need fresh water more than they need old cars.

Bernie

Beg pardon????? I agree with vintagerodshop. A lesson in Canadian geography is in order here. The Ratsoy collection is about as far west in Canada as it is possible to go - Richmond, British Columbia, south of Vancouver.

Terry

[John_S_in_Penna]

By the way, British Columbia is a beautiful part of the country!

It's amazing how temperate the weather is there, too.

[1912Staver]

John you are correct about the beauty, but the climate on the coast {where the bulk of people live} is very wet. Old cars rust badly unless kept in heated garages. Also we are a LONG distance away from many old car hobby events, Hershey, etc. I like living here, but from a car hobby point of view things could be better. We also live in a city that has been consistantly ranked as one of the least affordable in the world for several years now. Astonishingly high costs and ho hum wages. Very little money for old cars in most households after everything else is paid for.

Greg in Canada

Edited March 12, 2015 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Bleach]

Greg, it's not much better for car events here in the Portland, OR area. The only thing that happens here is the Portland Swap Meet.

[Guest AlCapone]

Nice to see a few bucks coming into the Untied States from another country. It seems like it has worked the other way more frequently. Sometimes the bucks go out and we get nothing in return. Any chance of talking them into some more stuff, a new car, a radio, TV, maybe a computer?

Can't begrudge them the good taste to buy the Limited, though. And they seem to be the drivers that keep Buick from following Olds and Pontiac down the tubes.

I just hope they don't run a pipeline across their western Canadian real estate and ruin my view of Lake Ontario. They need fresh water more than they need old cars.

Bernie

I think you misjudged by about 3000 miles between Lake Ontario and British Columbia ! Maybe you skipped Canadian Geography 101 ( lol ) !

Wayne

[1912Staver]

For many of us in B.C. the Portland Swap Meet is the crown jewel. I have been attending for 20 years or so. Unfortunately our $ situation is bleak. My regular group of swap meet friends were getting nervous the year my wife was due to deliver our son only a week before the meet. She managed the birth with a few days to spare and I was able to make the trek down I 5 as usual. He attended his first swap meet a month later {vintage motorcycles} but didn't seem too impressed. 15 years later he is still not really in to old cars but one always hopes.

Greg in Canada

Edited March 12, 2015 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[dictator27]

The fact that the buyer of the Ratsoy collection is Chinese might possibly be linked to something else. The collection is in the city of Richmond which has the highest concentration of Chinese immigrants in Canada, maybe North America. Chinese immigrants, (not Canadian born), make up 60% of Richmond's ethnic population, enough that there are two shopping centres which cater entirely to the Chinese speaking population and two stores (Yeohan and T & T) that probably are rarely seen anywhere else in North America, if at all.

Terry

[John_S_in_Penna]

Greg, what city are you near that has such an expensive

cost of living? Vancouver? I understand California isn't much better!

I visited Victoria and the area around it, and found it to be a very nice place.

Of course, I saw the area from a tourist's vantage, not a resident's.

And I can follow what you mean by rain: Not far up the coast is

a forest (one of the wettest places in North America) that has received

more than 300 inches of rain in a year!

Pennsylvania, as you may suspect, has numerous car activities.

As I put together the Calendar of Events for our club newsletter,

I see multiple car events every week-end, from very large swap meets

such as Carlisle to obscure firemen's car shows. One of the car-dedicated

couples in our AACA region regularly attends more than 50 car shows

locally a year.

[1912Staver]

Hi John, Victoria is definitely a nice place. And has a better climate than the Vancouver area. Housing costs are a little lower, but not that much. Access to the mainland is by ferry , hours of service and cost... well not so good. Last sailing is 9:00 PM. I am about 40 minutes east of Vancouver city proper in the Fraser Valley, all one stretch of suburbs really. Average house price in Vancouver is over a Million, by the time you get out to my area more like $600 -$700 thousand, but anything nice in my area is nudging that million mark. Where does all the money come from ? Most of us will only earn 1 to 2 million before tax and all other expenses in our lifetime, how can a city be filled with $600 thou to 4 Million houses ?

Greg in Canada