Taylormade

The Ressurection of Daphne - a 1932 DL

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The '32 water pumps came with either a zirc fitting (later production) or a grease cap (earlier production)...you know, the type you unscrew a cap, fill it up with water pump grease, put it back on and screw it down 1/4-1/2 turn every 300 or so miles. You might ask the rebuilder if you have a choice and let him know. Me? I like the caps, although many were swapped out by mechanics along the way.

Im confused, I thought you said just holes?

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Jason...Take another look at the photo of the water pump that Dick Taylor posted above. You'll see a zerk fitting on the right on top of the pump body, then you'll see the two oil holes in two "bumps" on top of the main casting above and behind where the bushings are for the shaft.

Edited by Phil 32DL6 (see edit history)

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Jason...Take another look at the photo of the water pump that Dick Taylor posted above. You'll see a zerk fitting on the right on top of the pump body, then you'll see the two oil holes in two "bumps" on top of the main casting above and behind where the bushings are for the shaft.

Sorry I was confused, yes I understand now. I have to say I am still struggling with the holes concept though, the picture you posted really does not show the close-up detail of the pump. Thanks though for the clarification

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According to their website and in talking to their people, they specalize in antique and special interest auto pumps. The person on the phone seemed unfazed by my pump. He said they had several on the shelf they could rebuild and exchange, but I preferred to have my original (maybe) pump rebuilt and that was no problem. Like I said, I'll show you the results when it gets back.

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I'll make a note of the waterpump rebuilder for my pump. I'm sure I need a pump rebuilt sometime soon. The modern seal sounds like a good idea to me.

As for the instruments, it might be that they are gold. I'm sure you'll see a closer representation of the original color once you disassemble your gauges and look along the edge of the dials if there's a portion that hasn't been exposed to sunlight. I haven't found where my instruments are hiding yet (I hope I have some!).

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Sorry I was confused, yes I understand now. I have to say I am still struggling with the holes concept though, the picture you posted really does not show the close-up detail of the pump. Thanks though for the clarification

Check post #129. I have a close-up photo of one of the oiling holes circled in red.

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According to their website and in talking to their people, they specalize in antique and special interest auto pumps. The person on the phone seemed unfazed by my pump. He said they had several on the shelf they could rebuild and exchange, but I preferred to have my original (maybe) pump rebuilt and that was no problem. Like I said, I'll show you the results when it gets back.

Thats sounds like a heck of a deal than, good luck with it and look forward to hearing how you made out

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Here you go...follow the arrows. Grease cap is at far right.

Thanks Phil, much better picture, so what do you think about sand, dirt and dust getting down inside there, if oil can enter so easily than what about the others, granted not many years prior there were such things as open valvetrains and such but things were changing/advancing rapidly.

Obviously my knowledge of this particular car is very small compared to your own but I just cant help but to wonder what the heck they were thinking if this was the case.

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The lack of something covering those holes probably contributes to the early water pump shaft/bushing wear often seen on these.

They should have put on spring caps like you find on starters and generators...or something!

Maybe I should jam in little tapered wooden plugs?

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Yes, what is throwing me is that my own car ( earlier than your own ) and earlier than my own Dodge Brothers autos had some sort of a fitting, there were no holes like you show here.

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Just something to think about the original oil filler caps that I mentioned in a prior post ( that my own car uses ) do not thread in, they are simply a push in/friction deal. I will snap a picture

EDIT: I thought I had some handy but a picture would require digging out a spare pump

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)

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Just something to think about the original oil filler caps that I mentioned in a prior post ( that my own car uses ) do not thread in, they are simply a push in/friction deal. I will snap a picture

EDIT: I thought I had some handy but a picture would require digging out a spare pump

Those caps sounds like a good idea to keep crud out of the lubrication ports. I would consider adding some to my DL.

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As you can probably tell from my lack of posting, not much has happened on the restoration over the last few days. I was involved in the 48 Hour Film Project over the weekend where teams make a complete 4 to 7 minute dramatic film in 48 hours. I got three hours sleep over the 48 hours, so I wasn't really able to concentrate my attentions on the Dodge.

I was planning to visit Ed tomorrow, but work got in the way and now it's a Friday visit. The good news- talking to Ed on the phone and he has both front fenders off the frame and nearly finished. On Friday he promises all four fenders done, cleaned of all paint and undercoating and ready for the painter. Another curve came up as he informed me that what we thought were rivets holding the fenders to the frame (discussed in one of the earlier threads) were actually just bumps on the fender to clear rivets UNDER the fenders on the frame. The fenders themselves came off with just a few bolts. The deeper you dig, the more you find out.

I'll have plenty of pictures after my visit Friday.

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A long 16 hour day at Ed’s shop on Friday. Reality is beginning to set in on this restoration. It took as long as the estimate
to do all four fenders to get the driver’s side front fender finished. Needless to say, my original budget is shot all to heck.

After working out the major damage on the front fenders, Ed removed them for the finish work. He discovered that the fenders
are not riveted on as we previously suspected and that what appeared to be rivet heads were domes stamped into the fenders
to clear rivets in the frame.

Here you can see them from the underside of the cleaned fender.

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Ed then sandblasted all four fenders. This is when the seriousness of the situation became evident. I had originally thought
the body work would have consisted of repair on the two pushed in front fenders, the area around the taillight on the rear
fender and the damage from the ice to the hood, area above the windshield and the hood.

But as it often happens, once I got the clothes off her, she turned out not to be the virgin I had expected. It turns out that
both Phil, the previous owner, and I were unaware that we were driving around a rolling pile of bondo. All four fenders are a mess!
The driver’s side front, which sustained the most original damage, was rippled, dented and twisted over at least 80 percent of the
sheet metal. Ed worked it for the entire day – and even now I will probably have to do more light hammer and dolly work after I
get a coat of epoxy on and do a 80 grit sanding to find the high spots.

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Several small patches had to be fabricated and welded onto areas along the edge of the fender where collision damage had
torn the metal beyond repair. The work was compounded by the fact that channels for the wire former had to be added and
the metal bent around the wire after welding the patches in. The size of the stamped edge trim also slowly became wider
around the curve of the fender, making accurate duplication very difficult.

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Ed finished off the fender with planisher and a metal finishing disk that flattened the high spots.

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Once that was finished, he had to replace the fender brace in exactly the right position to line up with the mounts on the frame and weld it in.

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The fender came out pretty good, especially when you look at before pictures, but it still needs a lot more finishing work on my part.

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The rest of the fenders will need a lot more work than we thought. Rust holes everywhere. I had assumed the passenger side
rear fender would need no work.

Wrong! Lots of metal will have to be replaced along the mounting surface. More damage along the outside bead that will require
complicated patches and more working around the wire bead. A long road lies ahead.

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Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)

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You may eventually find out that the braces were never originally welded or bolted in but instead riveted on, ( brass/steel rivets ) someone at one point may have ground the rivets off and filled the holes with bondo which is typical. I dont see anything that prob. should not have been expected, your not going to restore fenders that are this old and crushed that badly without adding some filler and making some fabrications. Looks good though what is being done.

Consider yourself lucky that you even have a spare wheel trough, the bottoms are usually rusted completely away at least.

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You may eventually find out that the braces were never originally welded or bolted in but instead riveted on, ( brass/steel rivets ) someone at one point may have ground the rivets off and filled the holes with bondo which is typical. I dont see anything that prob. should not have been expected, your not going to restore fenders that are this old and crushed that badly without adding some filler and making some fabrications. Looks good though what is being done.

Consider yourself lucky that you even have a spare wheel trough, the bottoms are usually rusted completely away at least.

In this case the fender braces were definitely welded on. No room for rivets where the top of the brace meets the fender and the original factory spot welds could still bee seen where the brace was attached around the headlight mounting holes.

I knew the collision damage was going to be a job, but I didn't see all the rust issues and small dents coming. The fenders looked pretty good from the damage back (70 percent of the fender) until the paint came off. Then the true condition of the metal became apparent. I was driving the car forty-five years ago and it was full of bondo and fiberglass then - and it looked smooth and shiny to all outward appearances.

I don't mind a very light coat of filler to cover minor imperfections, but these fenders vibrate - they are nothing but big wings hanging out there - and too much filler is inviting cracks down the line.

<quickprintreadystate style="display: none;"></quickprintreadystate>

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post-86357-143141963766_thumb.jpgTaylormade, Another consideration is that if it was not for the body work with bondo done back in the 1960's and 1970's than this car may well have been scraped or parted out. Restoration work back than produced some good looking results but many were not long lasting robust repairs. Having said that the bondo repair did look good on your car up until the time you discovered it. I have a similar thread going on the Plymouth section of this forum named "paint and color for 1933 PD Plymouth". This car is a late 1960's or 1970's fix it up restoration. My cowl section looked very, very presentable, but look at the above attached photo. The same "tin worms" are at work. Good body men know this will require sheet metal patch panels, etc as plastic just can't fill these holes. Our hobby has advanced a great deal and what were acceptable standards back in the 1960's are not today. I am not saying that some great work was not done than, but I am saying that many cars were preserved because bondo and fillers were used to repair them at a time when a modern day "frame off restoration" was not the norm. Looking at your fenders I am afraid of what mine will look like once the paint and bondo is removed. For Dodge and Plymouth cars of the early 1930's another serious rust area are the cowls, lower body in front of the rear fenders, wheel wells, and rear of body in cars with rumble seats. The rumble seat area rain gutters just drained into the back of the car and hopefully out of the body in some holes provided. I hope you stay encouraged and that the worst of the rust has been detected. Your 1932 Dodge deserves the restoration work it is receiving. Chris

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<quickprintreadystate style="display: none;"></quickprintreadystate>We won't know the true extent of the body damage until we get the paint off. The lower portion below the door sills definitely has to be replaced. The wheel weels a a little crusty, but I'm hoping they are okay. From what I can see from inside the body, the cowl may be okay. The upper body, rear section and doors look very good.

An interesting thing about the body construction of the 32 is that it precedes hot rod practice - the body is actually channeled over the frame.

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The channel then bolts to the SIDE of the frame via a covering strip that also holds on the running board splash shield and the back of the front fenders.<quickprintreadystate style="display: none;"></quickprintreadystate><quickprintreadystate style="display: none;"></quickprintreadystate>

The car is about as stripped down as i can get it, and the body comes off next for repairs.

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Although things get a bit discouraging at times, my old Dodge will return to her former glory. I just hope my finances allow for it to be done in time for the 100 anniversary next year.

Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)

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Looks like your body guy knows what he is doing, there is no miracle work here though no-matter how experienced they are, your going to have to possibly skim coat the entire fender if it is peppered with small dents or waves, I wouldnt worry about it cracking, think how many years you and Phil had the car and you guys never even knew it was there, I am a pretty good bodyman and all 4 of my fenders are bondo from bow to stern cause of all the minor imperfections, just whats done, thats whats its there for.

I also like all-metal, comes in a can, I am sure Ed knows what this is, might want to mention it to him.

28 I believe was the introduction of the body being channeled over the frame as a point of interest. Keep up the good work.

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It's been a dismal week in Southern Illinois. it just keeps raining - day after day. I was planning to give my finished fender a quick sandblasting to even things out and then lay on a coat of epoxy primer, but the rain and humidity make it impossible to do either. Plus the constant rain is just plain depressing - and the forcast is for more of it, all week through the holiday. I find myself sitting in the workshop staring at things that need to be done and then doing absolutely nothing.

I did manage to get all my removed parts sorted, labeled and up on shelves. I went through everything, took inventory and was pleased to discover I have most every part I need with the exception of one interior door handle. I'm off to Ed's sometime in the next week to pick up more fenders and help get the body off the frame. Everything seems to have slowed to a near halt, but I'm moving along no mattter how slowly.

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Not much progress for the last few weeks. I've been involved in the tedious process of stripping the seats down to the springs, cleaning off the rust - mostly surface, and not too bad - and painting everything. I also got the rust off the front seat frame and got that painted.

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Yesterday I made another 2 and a half hour jaunt to central Missouri to help Ed with the body on the DL. When I arrived he had the other front fender nearly finished and it's looking good.

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We removed the last bolts holding the body to the frame. It's an interesting mounting method, with two large bolts up front on each side bolted through a cast mount just
in front of the front door. Another large bolt is attached to a pressed steel flange on the firewall. This bolt also passes through the front fender and into the frame.

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At the rear, four bolts pass through the rear body pan, the stamped tray that covers the gas tank and into the frame via captured nuts. Earlier, we had removed the trim
strips that use captured bolts that hold the lower sides of the body and the running board splash shields to the side of the frame. A bit of rocking and the body came loose in a shower of rust dust and disintigrating body webbing.


We used Ed's lift to get the body up in the air. It's surprisingly light - we could easily lift the rear to get a 4X4 under it.

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Once it was up on the lift we got a good look at the rust and corrosion. It wasn't quite as bad as we expected. Looks like we will only have to replace some short
sections rather than the entire lower area. The worst section was on the passenger side under the front door where we found - guess what? - a mouse nest. So, our
original theory finally proved correct and after waffling on the cause of the rust out, mouse urine now presents itself as the leading factor, followed by many years of
upstate new York winters.

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With the body off, we got a good look at the frame. Lots of surface rust, but the frame itself is very solid with no rustouts or other visible problems. Check out the
size of that X-frame. No wonder Dodge figured there was no need for a center body brace.

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There was a ton of grease everywhere - some of which probably held the rust at bay - so we loaded the frame onto Ed's trailer and headed to the local carwash where I dropped 12 bucks in quarters trying to get everything clean. Some of the grease had apparently fossilized over the 81 year life of the car and refused to budge. I would say we removed about 70 percent of the crud. At the finish, the carwash looked like a grease storm had rolled in, with golf ball sized globs of grease all over the walls and ceiling. I'm sure the owner of the car wash went into cardiac arrest when he saw the carnage.

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A little less grease after the wash down.

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My DL has the same type of shackles as my old 29 Plymouth. They are a real pain to find. I will probably have to machine them (new pins, fill weld the cups and re-machine.) No fun at all.

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Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)

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Back at Ed's we decided to remove the motor and get it over to the rebuilder's shop. Probably a crazy idea considering it was just Ed and I doing all the work, but we went at it.
First we removed the head. Inside didn't look too bad, but ridges in the bores indicate new pistons are in order. The valves looked pretty good. I've got my fingers crossed that the bottom end won't look too bad.

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Loosening up the motor, We found the front mount was not attached to the motor by any mechanical means. The front mount that bolts to the frame has a separate part with a rubber pad vulcanized to it. A plate and flange bolted to the front of the motor sits on the rubber. We could find no way the rubber piece could have attached to the flange. The front of the motor seems to just sit on the rubber pad. When they say "Floating Power" they really mean it!

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The second "Floating Power" mount was between the oil pan and the flywheel cover. This was two strips of steel with mounting holes with a rubber pad sandwiched and vulcanized between them. The top of the mount is fastened by two bolts that also help hold the flywheel cover on. The bottom two bolts mount to a removable brace that straddles the frame.

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The transmission "floats" in a rubber mount attached to a removable cross frame that bolts to extensions on the frame with four bolts. I'll have to make these three rubber mounts as the original rubber has just plain fallen apart.

Lots of stuff to remove to get the engine free, including a half leaf spring that extends from the passenger side of the frame to a mount on the trans. We finally got everything loose, photographed and diagrammed. The engine easily lifted free at this point.

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Next we removed the tranny, clutch and the bell housing. The clutch plate looked almost new - don't ask me why. maybe it was replaced just before I bought it. I hope the interior of the transmission
looks as good as the clutch.

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Ed showed off his flywheel tool - something I'd never seen. Makes rotating the flywheel to loosen the bolts very easy.

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With the clock ticking, we loaded the motor into Ed's pickup and drove over to Loop 70 Rebuilders - highly recommended by Ed and other locals as experts in antique auto motor rebuilding - before they closed.

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My suspicions about new pistons were confirmed, but I got a good bit of news. They are going to let me disassemble the motor - under their guidance - and photograph and videotape the process. A great learning process and a good way to save some money. I'll be doing that a week from Monday and will post plenty of pix.

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We headed back to Ed's, where I loaded up the tranny, pressure plate, clutch plate, bumpers, body mounting strips, motor spring and bags and bags of bolts, and headed home. Plenty of stuff to clean and paint over the next few weeks!

Ed will start on the body tomorrow.

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Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)

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Taylormade,

Outstanding!

Were there rubber or steel pads between the top of the frame and the body, specifically where the body bolts passed through? If so how thick were they?

I am wondering if anyone does a "vulcanizing service" to these "floating power" engine and transmission mounts, my 33 PD Plymouth has similar ones in similar condition.

Will you be disassembling the clutch assembly or do you feel that this just needs a good cleaning and inspection?

Thanks for sharing these pictures. Chris

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Great pics and a good amount of progress, BTW the guy you sent your electrical to ( Jason ) does do re-winding evidently so it sound like you are in good hands.

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