The Ressurection of Daphne - a 1932 DL

[Taylormade]

Did some work on the front seat, stripping off the horrible black vinyl and getting it ready for the new upholstery. The metal seat frame looked pretty good - some surface rust on the inside back, but easily removed and repainted.



The bottom wood frame didn't fare so well. The fire frrom the tailpipe that burned a hole in the floorboard also got to the seat. Nothing too serious, but ugly just the same. Since I have all the woodworking tools I need: bandsaw, router, sanders, I may just make a new frame. The cardboard/fiber insert around the top of the seat is pretty torn up, but I assume you can still get this stuff, and it's easy to replace as it's just held in place by metal tabs.





Picking the fabric has been something of a challenge. We already determined that the color was originally brown that had been sun faded to tan. LeBaron Bonney has fabric that is the right shade of brown (or as close as I can get), and it came down to two choices. This one has the correct rib spacing - narrow - but the fabric is slightly thinner than the rest of the Broadcloth offered. But, I must admit, it is almost exactly the same thickness as the original fabric. The new stuff is obviously on the left. If you stand back from your screen a bit it's easier to pick up the pattern.




This one has ribs that are noticably too wide, but the fabric is a bit thicker and seems a bit softer. Then, again, the thicker fabric may not fold and crease the way the original did and may look a bit too "puffy."




I keep on going back and forth with this, but will probably go with the thinner, more original pattern.


The door and window trim material is an almost exact match to the original.




So lots going on. Looking forward to working at Ed's shop tomorrow.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Taylormade (see edit history)

[Phil 32DL6]

My shell has the mounting bolts placed horizontally, when, for a 32, they should be vertical.

Yep...here's the inside of a '32 bucket.

Drilling two new holes may be the easiest job you'll have to do with this restoration!

[RSayak]

I would modify the bucket that you already have. Aren't they thin stamped steel? The broken pieces and cracks could be gently welded in (find someone with a TIG welder that is good with it), and the extra holes filled in as well at the same time. Once everything is smoothed and readied for plating, it should be fine. So you did end up with that bucket I saw on eBay... Do you have any contact information for the tail light stalks?

[Taylormade]

Forum member RSayak asked for some information on converting his coupe to sidemounts. It turns out it's a bit more complicated than grafting a couple of wheelwells onto the fenders. Along with the wheelwells there is a brace that helps support the well and the tire and also provides a mount for the rod that extends up from the fender to hold the clamp for the tire.

Here is the configuration from the underside of the fender.




And from the top.



As you can see a brace comes off the upright support rod, passes through the body and bolts onto an inner support in the cowl. This inner support is designed to accept the brace. I don't know if all cars have this support, or if non-sidemount bodies used a different configuration.

To do this conversion, you need far more than just wheelwells. One could fabricate the brace with a little work, but the support rods, inner support and clamps would be a bit more of a problem.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Taylormade (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

I spent yesterday at Ed's shop working on the DL. I got a lot done, but none of it is very visual. Since the body is coming off the frame I realized it was time to disconnect everything that would prvent lift-off. There turned out to be a lot of things attached to the body and frame.

First I tackled the wiring. After getting a good look at it, I'm amazed this car didn't turn into a rolling fireball at some point in its life. Most of the original wiring still existed in place, but little of it was being used. Over the years, all of the wiring to the lights and ignition had been replaced with modern plastic wire in a very shoddy manner. Lots of twisted splices (no solder) with plastic electrician's tape. Wires taped to everything - struts, cables, old wires. It was a nightmare. With all the grease in the engine compartment it's a wonder an electrical fire didn't toast the old girl.


The wiring was obviously changed when the Clum Switch on the end of the steering box failed. I hope I can restore it to working order. But the result was a jury-rigged mess that I finally just cut away to get down to the orginal wire harness. Luckily, former owners had left it in place and I could get good photos and make up some diagrams that will help me get the replacement harness back in it's original position and configuration.

One thing that suprised me was the original harness was made up with fiber conduit rather than the expected wrapping in cloth tape.




If you can see through the grease, you can see the conduit. This is available, so the job of recreating the harness should be easy.

Once I removed all of the harness attachment points in the engine compartment - boy are there a lot of clips on the frame and firewall! - I tackled the dash area. It seemed the easiest way to approach this was to get the instrument pod loose to make access a bit simpler. Well, I can tell you getting the pod out is no easy job. I took out the heater to get more access and it's staying out - more room for Kathy and we're not driving in the winter, anyway. I got the three bolts along the bottom of the pod off, but something was still holding it in. I felt around the edge of the pod, but couldn't find any other bolts or nuts holding it in place. I finally got a mirror and tried to take a look at what was going on in the narrow area above the pod - this was no fun lying on my back (on a piece of plywood - no floor) and trying to get enough light up there to see what the problem was. I discovered that the three cables (throttle, choke and freewheeling) attached to three tabs that extended up from the back of the pod. Now I had to get those nuts holding the cable fittings in place loose. I would really like to know how the heck they did it at the factory. There is no room up there! Any wrench I could get to the nut would only turn it about a quarter of a turn. Ed helped out with a set of off-set wrenches that we finally used, but even then we could only turn the nut a half turn before we had to change the wrench out for one with a different angle off-set. After a half an hour getting the first two off - Ed doing most of the work - I reached around and found the last cable nut was finger tight and spun it off by hand!

Now the instrument pod could be lifted out of the back of the dash - not the front. Taking the wires off was a simple job at that point. I think the 32 dash is one of the best looking units I've ever seen.



You can see the three tabs that were clamped between the inner dash and the cable nuts. I have a temp gauge, but it has an incorrect black face. If anyone has a temp gauge (non working is fine), let me know. I took good photos of Phil Kennedy's gauge when I was at his place, so I can always have a printer make me up a new gauge face that should come close to matching.

I now had everything running between the frame and the body cleared away - wiring, cables. Ah, one more thing - the sidemount braces. They run from the fenders into the side of the cowl. (See the post above). So they came out and it's clear sailing when we lift the body.

Finally, I removed the starter and the generator. They'll be heading to Michigan for a full cosmetic and electrical restoration. Pictures when they get back in about three months.

All this took the better part of 10 hours. I was bushed, but managed to get the water pump off before I left. Questions about that in the next post.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Taylormade (see edit history)

[R.White]

Have you a plan on how to make the reinstatement of the instrument cluster cable fittings easier than they were was to get out? I would have thought perhaps you could make an alteration to the design to make the job less of an ordeal.

Ray.

[Guest 1930]

Who is doing the electrical work on starter and Gen, do they have experience with these particular units, (?) I am assuming they are both original Delco units (?) Do these 32 units have any of the pot metal we see in the earlier units like end plates ect, I am thinking by this time they got away from this but would like confirmation.

Any details on the work being done would be helpful, prices would also be nice.

[Buicknutty]

The wiring on my '41 Buick was in a similar condition, a fire just waiting to happen. The scariest thing was that the PO. actually drove it in that condition.

Great looking work on your car, and love the story. Keep it coming!

Keith

[Taylormade]

I have a few questions about my water pump for all the experts out there. it seems like a very simple unit. I'd like to rebuild it, if possible.



I have some pretty severe movement in the shaft fore and aft. You can see the extent of the movement in these side-by-side shots.



Since the fan mount and the belt pully are both pinned to the shaft and can't move along the shaft, the only thing that would cause this movement is the impeller being too far toward the rear of the shaft. Or am I mistaken about this? I looks like it's on about right and pushing it further onto the shaft would leave the shaft sticking out from the impeller.



So, what's the fix? How tough is the impeller? I don't want to damage it trying something I shouldn't.

Also, is this hole for lubrication, or does some sort of grease or oiling fitting go there?



And finally, it's still pretty greasy, but I wasn't able to move this nut, which I assume is the packing nut. It's tough to get a wrench in there. Am I doing something wrong?



Thanks for any help.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Taylormade (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

Have you a plan on how to make the reinstatement of the instrument cluster cable fittings easier than they were was to get out? I would have thought perhaps you could make an alteration to the design to make the job less of an ordeal.

Ray.

If I clean up the threads I can pretty well finger tighten them to where they'll just need a half turn or so more to finish the job. I always hate to modify things - it seems to come back and haunt me in ways I never saw coming.

[keiser31]

The only answer I can give to any of those questions is that you need a special wrench for the packing nut. I don't happen to have a photo of one at the moment. You may be able to alter a tool that you already have in order to do the job.

[Taylormade]

Who is doing the electrical work on starter and Gen, do they have experience with these particular units, (?) I am assuming they are both original Delco units (?) Do these 32 units have any of the pot metal we see in the earlier units like end plates ect, I am thinking by this time they got away from this but would like confirmation.

Any details on the work being done would be helpful, prices would also be nice.

I'm going with:

AER

16574 S. Baver Road

Grand Ledge, MI 48837

I talked to owner Jason Smith, who does all the work himself. He completely rebuilds the electrics, powdercoats the unit in the correct semi-gloss black finish, replates anything that was originally plated, and installs new Delco labels - the metal ovals, not sure of the correct terminology - with correct stamped numbers. He charges $350 per unit.

He told me that about the only thing remaining from the original unit are the exterior metal pieces. He specializes in rare and antique units. I'm not sure if the end pieces are pot metal or not. They were just too greasy for me to bother with when I got home. Jason said my parts are very common for the period.

[Taylormade]

The only answer I can give to any of those questions is that you need a special wrench for the packing nut. I don't happen to have a photo of one at the moment. You may be able to alter a tool that you already have in order to do the job.

I'm assuming it is a wrench that has very thin sides to be able to slip into the narrow opening and still turn. I may have to grind something down to fit.

[Guest 1930]

I am not familiar with the 32 pump ( but your pump looks nearly identical to my own ) but the earlier pumps have a flange on the backside of the impeller that once assembled properly dictates end to end movement, yours is prob. worn, maybe not so bad that simply taking up the slack by moving the fan side inward may correct the problem, chances are the shaft is worn from overtightening and overuse of packing material so it will have to be replaced.

There is a special water pump wrench that is used to loosen the nut, I do not believe they were reverse thread on your pump.

The earlier pumps had an oiler, it was a fitting that had a small ball that when pressed would allow the proper oil to seep down past the ball and go where it needed to go, I think by 32 they would have had a zerk fitting of some sort, should be in the instruction manual how to maintain the pump, maybe look and see if there are threads down inside of the opening for a fitting to screw into.

Attached picture is the special water pump wrench used on 29/30 Dodge maybe others. The two little notches on this wrench at the head were done long ago by someone just to give a bit more clearance. Not original to the wrench but often seen.

Edited June 8, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

I'm going with:

AER

16574 S. Baver Road

Grand Ledge, MI 48837

I talked to owner Jason Smith, who does all the work himself. He completely rebuilds the electrics, powdercoats the unit in the correct semi-gloss black finish, replates anything that was originally plated, and installs new Delco labels - the metal ovals, not sure of the correct terminology - with correct stamped numbers. He charges $350 per unit.

He told me that about the only thing remaining from the original unit are the exterior metal pieces. He specializes in rare and antique units. I'm not sure if the end pieces are pot metal or not. They were just too greasy for me to bother with when I got home. Jason said my parts are very common for the period.

Is he able to re-wind, I am thinking not but would like confirmation either way.

[Taylormade]

I'm not sure. You'll have to contact him - he's a real nice guy.

[Phil 32DL6]

There are 3 places to lubricate this pump. The two holes in the main casting each take a drop or two of plain motor oil from time to time. I do it every couple of months, or so. I actually also add a drop of oil where the shaft disappears into the casting in several places. That's more oiling than they ask for, but I figure it can't hurt.

Then there's that fitting towards the back of the casting. That takes grease...water pump grease is best and still obtainable from several sources. Me? I've still got 3/4 of a can of water pump grease I bought at a Western Auto back in the 70s!

Don't squirt in too much grease or it may end up in the cooling system.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Phil 32DL6 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

There are 3 places to lubricate this pump. The two holes in the main casting each take a drop or two of plain motor oil from time to time. I do it every couple of months, or so. I actually also add a drop of oil where the shaft disappears into the casting in several places. That's more oiling than they ask for, but I figure it can't hurt.

Then there's that fitting towards the back of the casting. That takes grease...water pump grease is best and still obtainable from several sources. Me? I've still got 3/4 of a can of water pump grease I bought at a Western Auto back in the 70s!

Don't squirt in too much grease or it may end up in the cooling system.

Phil, dont you think there would have been some sort of fitting here originally, if not than anything and everything would have the ability to get inside of there and screw up the impeller shaft quickly including sand. Does the instruction book show a fitting ?

[RSayak]

Thanks for the sidemount details. Now I know what I should be looking for when I dig through all these parts that have been collected over the years. There should also some other parts for attaching the wheel to the support.

As for your upholstery, I vote the thinner, more original material.

For the instruments, I have noticed that the instrument faces are currently a "gold", however, this gold was probably some other color originally before fading/yellowing to this current tint. The reason I mention this is that I've noticed the same/similar color on my 1938 Chrysler, and also on my 1965 Valiant (Dart instruments - it's a Canadian car). On the 1938 Chrysler, one gauge was replaced, and is showing a lighter color that is more silver than the other gauges which show gold, on the Valiant, one replace gauge shows silver vs the other's light gold, which leaves me to believe that perhaps all these gauges might have been some silvery or other lighter color vs the gold tint they currently are. The Valiant gauges look to be brushed aluminum that was clear coated, and the coating may have yellowed, but I haven't tried stripping any of my gauges to see. The 1938 Chrysler factory brochure (although hand illustrated) shows silver gauge faces.

Anyhow, I just thought I would point this out to say that restoring the gauges faces is probably a bit more work than just matching the existing paint color.

[Phil 32DL6]

Phil, dont you think there would have been some sort of fitting here originally, if not than anything and everything would have the ability to get inside of there and screw up the impeller shaft quickly including sand. Does the instruction book show a fitting ?

Just a fitting at the rear. The front two oil holes are open. (See attached diagram from manual.) BTW, '31s have only one oil hole.

[keiser31]

Thanks for the sidemount details. Now I know what I should be looking for when I dig through all these parts that have been collected over the years. There should also some other parts for attaching the wheel to the support.

As for your upholstery, I vote the thinner, more original material.

For the instruments, I have noticed that the instrument faces are currently a "gold", however, this gold was probably some other color originally before fading/yellowing to this current tint. The reason I mention this is that I've noticed the same/similar color on my 1938 Chrysler, and also on my 1965 Valiant (Dart instruments - it's a Canadian car). On the 1938 Chrysler, one gauge was replaced, and is showing a lighter color that is more silver than the other gauges which show gold, on the Valiant, one replace gauge shows silver vs the other's light gold, which leaves me to believe that perhaps all these gauges might have been some silvery or other lighter color vs the gold tint they currently are. The Valiant gauges look to be brushed aluminum that was clear coated, and the coating may have yellowed, but I haven't tried stripping any of my gauges to see. The 1938 Chrysler factory brochure (although hand illustrated) shows silver gauge faces.

Anyhow, I just thought I would point this out to say that restoring the gauges faces is probably a bit more work than just matching the existing paint color.

As far as the instruments go, all I have ever seen in a 1932 DB are gold faced instruments behind a light face plate. I am certain the gold is original.

[Guest 1930]

I also have only seen the gold and believe that to be original.

[Taylormade]

That's not to say that the gold has yellowed and become more gold over the years, but both Phil and my car have the same shade of gold instruments. But then, we both have the same shade of "tan" upholstery - that used to be brown.

[Phil 32DL6]

We all know how accurate those old sales brochures are...NOT!

But in light of this discussion on whether the silver dash really had gold gauge faces originally or not, I thought this was especially ironic.

[keiser31]

We all know how accurate those old sales brochures are...NOT!

But in light of this discussion on whether the silver dash really had gold gauge faces originally or not, I thought this was especially ironic.

The artist who did the rendering may have misheard the colors to be applied. Very common to see non-production items and colors on the sales literature.

[Taylormade]

<quickprintreadystate style="display: none;"></quickprintreadystate>And notice the entire dash is wood-grained in the brochure illustration instead of the correct wood-grained top and black bottom.

[Taylormade]

I'm going to send my water pump to:

Flying Dutchman Pump Rebuilders

200 Davis Creek Road Selma, OR 97538

They quoted me $95 for a total rebuild with a 24 month warrenty. They also use a modern seal rather than the style old packing, although you can't tell from looking at the pump.

I'll show you how it comes out when I get it back - supposedly a week or less turn-around.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Taylormade (see edit history)

[Phil 32DL6]

The '32 water pumps came with either a zirc fitting (later production) or a grease cap (earlier production)...you know, the type you unscrew a cap, fill it up with water pump grease, put it back on and screw it down 1/4-1/2 turn every 300 or so miles. You might ask the rebuilder if you have a choice and let him know. Me? I like the caps, although many were swapped out by mechanics along the way.

[Taylormade]

Thanks, Phil, I'll check it out. I like the caps, also.

[Guest 1930]

I'm going to send my water pump to:

Flying Dutchman Pump Rebuilders

200 Davis Creek Road Selma, OR 97538

They quoted me $95 for a total rebuild with a 24 month warrenty. They also use a modern seal rather than the style old packing, although you can't tell from looking at the pump.

I'll show you how it comes out when I get it back - supposedly a week or less turn-around.

Thats cheap, I hope they know what they are getting into. modern seal is the way too go in my opinion

[Guest 1930]

The '32 water pumps came with either a zirc fitting (later production) or a grease cap (earlier production)...you know, the type you unscrew a cap, fill it up with water pump grease, put it back on and screw it down 1/4-1/2 turn every 300 or so miles. You might ask the rebuilder if you have a choice and let him know. Me? I like the caps, although many were swapped out by mechanics along the way.

Im confused, I thought you said just holes?

[Phil 32DL6]

Jason...Take another look at the photo of the water pump that Dick Taylor posted above. You'll see a zerk fitting on the right on top of the pump body, then you'll see the two oil holes in two "bumps" on top of the main casting above and behind where the bushings are for the shaft.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Phil 32DL6 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Jason...Take another look at the photo of the water pump that Dick Taylor posted above. You'll see a zerk fitting on the right on top of the pump body, then you'll see the two oil holes in two "bumps" on top of the main casting above and behind where the bushings are for the shaft.

Sorry I was confused, yes I understand now. I have to say I am still struggling with the holes concept though, the picture you posted really does not show the close-up detail of the pump. Thanks though for the clarification

[Taylormade]

According to their website and in talking to their people, they specalize in antique and special interest auto pumps. The person on the phone seemed unfazed by my pump. He said they had several on the shelf they could rebuild and exchange, but I preferred to have my original (maybe) pump rebuilt and that was no problem. Like I said, I'll show you the results when it gets back.

[RSayak]

I'll make a note of the waterpump rebuilder for my pump. I'm sure I need a pump rebuilt sometime soon. The modern seal sounds like a good idea to me.

As for the instruments, it might be that they are gold. I'm sure you'll see a closer representation of the original color once you disassemble your gauges and look along the edge of the dials if there's a portion that hasn't been exposed to sunlight. I haven't found where my instruments are hiding yet (I hope I have some!).

[Taylormade]

Sorry I was confused, yes I understand now. I have to say I am still struggling with the holes concept though, the picture you posted really does not show the close-up detail of the pump. Thanks though for the clarification

Check post #129. I have a close-up photo of one of the oiling holes circled in red.

[Phil 32DL6]

Here you go...follow the arrows. Grease cap is at far right.

[Guest 1930]

According to their website and in talking to their people, they specalize in antique and special interest auto pumps. The person on the phone seemed unfazed by my pump. He said they had several on the shelf they could rebuild and exchange, but I preferred to have my original (maybe) pump rebuilt and that was no problem. Like I said, I'll show you the results when it gets back.

Thats sounds like a heck of a deal than, good luck with it and look forward to hearing how you made out

[Guest 1930]

Here you go...follow the arrows. Grease cap is at far right.

Thanks Phil, much better picture, so what do you think about sand, dirt and dust getting down inside there, if oil can enter so easily than what about the others, granted not many years prior there were such things as open valvetrains and such but things were changing/advancing rapidly.

Obviously my knowledge of this particular car is very small compared to your own but I just cant help but to wonder what the heck they were thinking if this was the case.

[Phil 32DL6]

The lack of something covering those holes probably contributes to the early water pump shaft/bushing wear often seen on these.

They should have put on spring caps like you find on starters and generators...or something!

Maybe I should jam in little tapered wooden plugs?