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The Ressurection of Daphne - a 1932 DL


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Yes, what is throwing me is that my own car ( earlier than your own ) and earlier than my own Dodge Brothers autos had some sort of a fitting, there were no holes like you show here.

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Just something to think about the original oil filler caps that I mentioned in a prior post ( that my own car uses ) do not thread in, they are simply a push in/friction deal. I will snap a picture

EDIT: I thought I had some handy but a picture would require digging out a spare pump

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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Just something to think about the original oil filler caps that I mentioned in a prior post ( that my own car uses ) do not thread in, they are simply a push in/friction deal. I will snap a picture

EDIT: I thought I had some handy but a picture would require digging out a spare pump

Those caps sounds like a good idea to keep crud out of the lubrication ports. I would consider adding some to my DL.

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As you can probably tell from my lack of posting, not much has happened on the restoration over the last few days. I was involved in the 48 Hour Film Project over the weekend where teams make a complete 4 to 7 minute dramatic film in 48 hours. I got three hours sleep over the 48 hours, so I wasn't really able to concentrate my attentions on the Dodge.

I was planning to visit Ed tomorrow, but work got in the way and now it's a Friday visit. The good news- talking to Ed on the phone and he has both front fenders off the frame and nearly finished. On Friday he promises all four fenders done, cleaned of all paint and undercoating and ready for the painter. Another curve came up as he informed me that what we thought were rivets holding the fenders to the frame (discussed in one of the earlier threads) were actually just bumps on the fender to clear rivets UNDER the fenders on the frame. The fenders themselves came off with just a few bolts. The deeper you dig, the more you find out.

I'll have plenty of pictures after my visit Friday.

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A long 16 hour day at Ed’s shop on Friday. Reality is beginning to set in on this restoration. It took as long as the estimate
to do all four fenders to get the driver’s side front fender finished. Needless to say, my original budget is shot all to heck.

After working out the major damage on the front fenders, Ed removed them for the finish work. He discovered that the fenders
are not riveted on as we previously suspected and that what appeared to be rivet heads were domes stamped into the fenders
to clear rivets in the frame.

Here you can see them from the underside of the cleaned fender.

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Ed then sandblasted all four fenders. This is when the seriousness of the situation became evident. I had originally thought
the body work would have consisted of repair on the two pushed in front fenders, the area around the taillight on the rear
fender and the damage from the ice to the hood, area above the windshield and the hood.

But as it often happens, once I got the clothes off her, she turned out not to be the virgin I had expected. It turns out that
both Phil, the previous owner, and I were unaware that we were driving around a rolling pile of bondo. All four fenders are a mess!
The driver’s side front, which sustained the most original damage, was rippled, dented and twisted over at least 80 percent of the
sheet metal. Ed worked it for the entire day – and even now I will probably have to do more light hammer and dolly work after I
get a coat of epoxy on and do a 80 grit sanding to find the high spots.

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Several small patches had to be fabricated and welded onto areas along the edge of the fender where collision damage had
torn the metal beyond repair. The work was compounded by the fact that channels for the wire former had to be added and
the metal bent around the wire after welding the patches in. The size of the stamped edge trim also slowly became wider
around the curve of the fender, making accurate duplication very difficult.

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Ed finished off the fender with planisher and a metal finishing disk that flattened the high spots.

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Once that was finished, he had to replace the fender brace in exactly the right position to line up with the mounts on the frame and weld it in.

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The fender came out pretty good, especially when you look at before pictures, but it still needs a lot more finishing work on my part.

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The rest of the fenders will need a lot more work than we thought. Rust holes everywhere. I had assumed the passenger side
rear fender would need no work.

Wrong! Lots of metal will have to be replaced along the mounting surface. More damage along the outside bead that will require
complicated patches and more working around the wire bead. A long road lies ahead.

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Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)
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You may eventually find out that the braces were never originally welded or bolted in but instead riveted on, ( brass/steel rivets ) someone at one point may have ground the rivets off and filled the holes with bondo which is typical. I dont see anything that prob. should not have been expected, your not going to restore fenders that are this old and crushed that badly without adding some filler and making some fabrications. Looks good though what is being done.

Consider yourself lucky that you even have a spare wheel trough, the bottoms are usually rusted completely away at least.

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You may eventually find out that the braces were never originally welded or bolted in but instead riveted on, ( brass/steel rivets ) someone at one point may have ground the rivets off and filled the holes with bondo which is typical. I dont see anything that prob. should not have been expected, your not going to restore fenders that are this old and crushed that badly without adding some filler and making some fabrications. Looks good though what is being done.

Consider yourself lucky that you even have a spare wheel trough, the bottoms are usually rusted completely away at least.

In this case the fender braces were definitely welded on. No room for rivets where the top of the brace meets the fender and the original factory spot welds could still bee seen where the brace was attached around the headlight mounting holes.

I knew the collision damage was going to be a job, but I didn't see all the rust issues and small dents coming. The fenders looked pretty good from the damage back (70 percent of the fender) until the paint came off. Then the true condition of the metal became apparent. I was driving the car forty-five years ago and it was full of bondo and fiberglass then - and it looked smooth and shiny to all outward appearances.

I don't mind a very light coat of filler to cover minor imperfections, but these fenders vibrate - they are nothing but big wings hanging out there - and too much filler is inviting cracks down the line.

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post-86357-143141963766_thumb.jpgTaylormade, Another consideration is that if it was not for the body work with bondo done back in the 1960's and 1970's than this car may well have been scraped or parted out. Restoration work back than produced some good looking results but many were not long lasting robust repairs. Having said that the bondo repair did look good on your car up until the time you discovered it. I have a similar thread going on the Plymouth section of this forum named "paint and color for 1933 PD Plymouth". This car is a late 1960's or 1970's fix it up restoration. My cowl section looked very, very presentable, but look at the above attached photo. The same "tin worms" are at work. Good body men know this will require sheet metal patch panels, etc as plastic just can't fill these holes. Our hobby has advanced a great deal and what were acceptable standards back in the 1960's are not today. I am not saying that some great work was not done than, but I am saying that many cars were preserved because bondo and fillers were used to repair them at a time when a modern day "frame off restoration" was not the norm. Looking at your fenders I am afraid of what mine will look like once the paint and bondo is removed. For Dodge and Plymouth cars of the early 1930's another serious rust area are the cowls, lower body in front of the rear fenders, wheel wells, and rear of body in cars with rumble seats. The rumble seat area rain gutters just drained into the back of the car and hopefully out of the body in some holes provided. I hope you stay encouraged and that the worst of the rust has been detected. Your 1932 Dodge deserves the restoration work it is receiving. Chris
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<quickprintreadystate style="display: none;"></quickprintreadystate>We won't know the true extent of the body damage until we get the paint off. The lower portion below the door sills definitely has to be replaced. The wheel weels a a little crusty, but I'm hoping they are okay. From what I can see from inside the body, the cowl may be okay. The upper body, rear section and doors look very good.

An interesting thing about the body construction of the 32 is that it precedes hot rod practice - the body is actually channeled over the frame.

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The channel then bolts to the SIDE of the frame via a covering strip that also holds on the running board splash shield and the back of the front fenders.<quickprintreadystate style="display: none;"></quickprintreadystate><quickprintreadystate style="display: none;"></quickprintreadystate>

The car is about as stripped down as i can get it, and the body comes off next for repairs.

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Although things get a bit discouraging at times, my old Dodge will return to her former glory. I just hope my finances allow for it to be done in time for the 100 anniversary next year.

Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)
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Looks like your body guy knows what he is doing, there is no miracle work here though no-matter how experienced they are, your going to have to possibly skim coat the entire fender if it is peppered with small dents or waves, I wouldnt worry about it cracking, think how many years you and Phil had the car and you guys never even knew it was there, I am a pretty good bodyman and all 4 of my fenders are bondo from bow to stern cause of all the minor imperfections, just whats done, thats whats its there for.

I also like all-metal, comes in a can, I am sure Ed knows what this is, might want to mention it to him.

28 I believe was the introduction of the body being channeled over the frame as a point of interest. Keep up the good work.

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It's been a dismal week in Southern Illinois. it just keeps raining - day after day. I was planning to give my finished fender a quick sandblasting to even things out and then lay on a coat of epoxy primer, but the rain and humidity make it impossible to do either. Plus the constant rain is just plain depressing - and the forcast is for more of it, all week through the holiday. I find myself sitting in the workshop staring at things that need to be done and then doing absolutely nothing.

I did manage to get all my removed parts sorted, labeled and up on shelves. I went through everything, took inventory and was pleased to discover I have most every part I need with the exception of one interior door handle. I'm off to Ed's sometime in the next week to pick up more fenders and help get the body off the frame. Everything seems to have slowed to a near halt, but I'm moving along no mattter how slowly.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Not much progress for the last few weeks. I've been involved in the tedious process of stripping the seats down to the springs, cleaning off the rust - mostly surface, and not too bad - and painting everything. I also got the rust off the front seat frame and got that painted.

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Yesterday I made another 2 and a half hour jaunt to central Missouri to help Ed with the body on the DL. When I arrived he had the other front fender nearly finished and it's looking good.

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We removed the last bolts holding the body to the frame. It's an interesting mounting method, with two large bolts up front on each side bolted through a cast mount just
in front of the front door. Another large bolt is attached to a pressed steel flange on the firewall. This bolt also passes through the front fender and into the frame.

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At the rear, four bolts pass through the rear body pan, the stamped tray that covers the gas tank and into the frame via captured nuts. Earlier, we had removed the trim
strips that use captured bolts that hold the lower sides of the body and the running board splash shields to the side of the frame. A bit of rocking and the body came loose in a shower of rust dust and disintigrating body webbing.


We used Ed's lift to get the body up in the air. It's surprisingly light - we could easily lift the rear to get a 4X4 under it.

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Once it was up on the lift we got a good look at the rust and corrosion. It wasn't quite as bad as we expected. Looks like we will only have to replace some short
sections rather than the entire lower area. The worst section was on the passenger side under the front door where we found - guess what? - a mouse nest. So, our
original theory finally proved correct and after waffling on the cause of the rust out, mouse urine now presents itself as the leading factor, followed by many years of
upstate new York winters.

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With the body off, we got a good look at the frame. Lots of surface rust, but the frame itself is very solid with no rustouts or other visible problems. Check out the
size of that X-frame. No wonder Dodge figured there was no need for a center body brace.

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There was a ton of grease everywhere - some of which probably held the rust at bay - so we loaded the frame onto Ed's trailer and headed to the local carwash where I dropped 12 bucks in quarters trying to get everything clean. Some of the grease had apparently fossilized over the 81 year life of the car and refused to budge. I would say we removed about 70 percent of the crud. At the finish, the carwash looked like a grease storm had rolled in, with golf ball sized globs of grease all over the walls and ceiling. I'm sure the owner of the car wash went into cardiac arrest when he saw the carnage.

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A little less grease after the wash down.

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My DL has the same type of shackles as my old 29 Plymouth. They are a real pain to find. I will probably have to machine them (new pins, fill weld the cups and re-machine.) No fun at all.

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Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)
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Back at Ed's we decided to remove the motor and get it over to the rebuilder's shop. Probably a crazy idea considering it was just Ed and I doing all the work, but we went at it.
First we removed the head. Inside didn't look too bad, but ridges in the bores indicate new pistons are in order. The valves looked pretty good. I've got my fingers crossed that the bottom end won't look too bad.

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Loosening up the motor, We found the front mount was not attached to the motor by any mechanical means. The front mount that bolts to the frame has a separate part with a rubber pad vulcanized to it. A plate and flange bolted to the front of the motor sits on the rubber. We could find no way the rubber piece could have attached to the flange. The front of the motor seems to just sit on the rubber pad. When they say "Floating Power" they really mean it!

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The second "Floating Power" mount was between the oil pan and the flywheel cover. This was two strips of steel with mounting holes with a rubber pad sandwiched and vulcanized between them. The top of the mount is fastened by two bolts that also help hold the flywheel cover on. The bottom two bolts mount to a removable brace that straddles the frame.

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The transmission "floats" in a rubber mount attached to a removable cross frame that bolts to extensions on the frame with four bolts. I'll have to make these three rubber mounts as the original rubber has just plain fallen apart.

Lots of stuff to remove to get the engine free, including a half leaf spring that extends from the passenger side of the frame to a mount on the trans. We finally got everything loose, photographed and diagrammed. The engine easily lifted free at this point.

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Next we removed the tranny, clutch and the bell housing. The clutch plate looked almost new - don't ask me why. maybe it was replaced just before I bought it. I hope the interior of the transmission
looks as good as the clutch.

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Ed showed off his flywheel tool - something I'd never seen. Makes rotating the flywheel to loosen the bolts very easy.

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With the clock ticking, we loaded the motor into Ed's pickup and drove over to Loop 70 Rebuilders - highly recommended by Ed and other locals as experts in antique auto motor rebuilding - before they closed.

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My suspicions about new pistons were confirmed, but I got a good bit of news. They are going to let me disassemble the motor - under their guidance - and photograph and videotape the process. A great learning process and a good way to save some money. I'll be doing that a week from Monday and will post plenty of pix.

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We headed back to Ed's, where I loaded up the tranny, pressure plate, clutch plate, bumpers, body mounting strips, motor spring and bags and bags of bolts, and headed home. Plenty of stuff to clean and paint over the next few weeks!

Ed will start on the body tomorrow.

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Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)
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Taylormade,

Outstanding!

Were there rubber or steel pads between the top of the frame and the body, specifically where the body bolts passed through? If so how thick were they?

I am wondering if anyone does a "vulcanizing service" to these "floating power" engine and transmission mounts, my 33 PD Plymouth has similar ones in similar condition.

Will you be disassembling the clutch assembly or do you feel that this just needs a good cleaning and inspection?

Thanks for sharing these pictures. Chris

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Taylormade,

Outstanding!

Were there rubber or steel pads between the top of the frame and the body, specifically where the body bolts passed through? If so how thick were they?

I am wondering if anyone does a "vulcanizing service" to these "floating power" engine and transmission mounts, my 33 PD Plymouth has similar ones in similar condition.

Will you be disassembling the clutch assembly or do you feel that this just needs a good cleaning and inspection?

Thanks for sharing these pictures. Chris

Don't recall rubber pads between the body and frame on my '33 PD but there was a canvas type webbing.

Antique Auto Parts Cellar (a.k.a. Then & Now Automotive) has, or at least had, a revulcanizing service for floating power engine mounts.

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Ian - that fender looks great! Can't wait until mine look like that.

Chris - along the top of the frame, for the fenders and the body, there is a canvas webbing. It was also on the side of the frame between the frame and the "channeled" body. This is on a back crossmember.

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The stuff on the top of the frame rails seemed more like a felt padding, not webbed. It was thicker than the webbing.

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On the back section of the frame over the gas tank were thin hard rubber pads with the cover over the pads. There was also a double rubber pad up front on the cowl flange that attached the body to the frame through the fender.

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You can see them in this pix. The one closest to the camera came off with the cover.

Here's the one up front. The fender was in the space between the rubber and the frame.

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Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)
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  • 2 weeks later...

Some great work going on here! Your rear fender conundrum reminds me of my Packard fenders, which I took off last fall. Once I removed the paint, a whole can of worms was opened. Rust AND body damage.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but any Chrysler built after July 31, 1931, is was sold as a 1932 model????

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Some great work going on here! Your rear fender conundrum reminds me of my Packard fenders, which I took off last fall. Once I removed the paint, a whole can of worms was opened. Rust AND body damage.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but any Chrysler built after July 31, 1931, is was sold as a 1932 model????

That was pretty much the way it was for the Chrysler products of the '30s. Then there was the "finally sold it" scenario of the depression where the car was titled the year sold.

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)
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If anyone else is interested in the woodgraining process, I have lots of pictures of various parts going through the process at Under Cover Upholstery - Past Projects - Woodgraining

Thanks Dick for posting the pictures - why didn't you tell me I'm so good looking ... ;)

-Crin

I checked this out. WOW! Thas guy is good! Wonderful thread. I'll be sure to follow. Edited by Landman (see edit history)
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Taylormade, thanks for alerting us to this thread, you are a great documentarian. I have always thought that 1932 produced some of the most beautiful cars ever made, and this is one of them. I will be following from now on, keep up the good work.

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This week I headed over to Loop 70 Auto to work on the motor. Ed and I had dropped it off on my last visit. The shop is about four miles from Ed's place, so I could do a two-for-one day. The guys at Loop 70 had graciously suggested that I could save some money by disassembling the motor by myself - in their shop and under their supervision. Hard to refuse that! They had the motor on a stand and ready for me when I arrived.

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My first job was to remove the head studs. One of the things that really worked for me was that the shop obviously had all the correct tools for disassembly - stuff that would have cost me a fortune to buy or rent. All the studs but one came out easily. There's always one. It snapped before I even put any real pressure on it, so I suspect it was already damaged. They told me not to worry, they'd put the block on their drill press and get the broken stud (snapped below the level of the deck) out with no problem. If I'd done it at home, God knows how I'd have ever gotten it out!

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I removed the distributor and the oil pump. It turns out that both Phil and I had taken good care of the lubrication chores on Daphne. The entire motor - inside and out - was coated with a film of oil. It was everywhere! I wore rubber gloves and still ended up an oily mess at the end of the day.

Next, I flipped over the motor and removed the oil pan, getting my first look at the innards.

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Check out the copper oil lines. Not my favorite engineering method of delivering oil, but they were in good shape and the guys said if I was careful and didn't twist or crush them during removal, I'd be fine.

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Thanks to the coating of oil, the fasteners came off easily using two wrenches and both lines came free with no damage. It was kind of like loosening a huge brake line. The oil pickup and screen were very clean. Phil had drained the oil and cleaned up the oil pan at some time in the recent past, so there was no crud or debris coating the bottom. That was a welcome sight - thanks, Phil!

As I mentioned in a previous thread, there was some cylinder bore wear and a slight ridge at the top of the bore. It was slight enough that the guys recommended that I not bother with a ridge reamer and just pop the pistons out. I carefully removed the rod caps one at a time, then tapped each piston and rod out of the bore through the top. I used a thin metal rod on the bottom of the piston to tap on. This proved to be a two man job as there was danger of the rod getting caught on the cam or the piston falling out of the black and hitting the floor. I held the piston in the bore as one of the guys tapped and kept the rod straight and away from the crank and the cam. Despite the ridge, it took very little tapping to get each piston and rod out.

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At this point we could examine the babbitt rod bearings and the rod journals on the crank. Everyone was amazed! They were in very good condition. Some measuring revealed that the motor had been rebuilt at some time in the past. The rod journals had been turned and were slightly under the original specs. The guys told me that if I intended to use the car for parades and Sunday drives, they would use the rods as they were. They were in that good shape. They said there was usually checking and stress cracks in babbitt this old, but mine looked almost perfect. However - and there is always a however in car restoration - when I told them I intended to drive Daphne to Michigan for the 100th Anniversary Meet, the room went silent. Finally, I was told, "Well, they're good, but maybe not that good."

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We decided that discretion was the better part of valor and chose to rebabbitt the rods and turn the crank.

At this point it was about noon and I headed over to Ed's to see how the metal work was coming.

Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)
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I arrived at Ed's and was delighted to see my passenger side front fender primed and ready to go.

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He then showed me progress on the rear fenders, which we originally thought would need little work. WRONG! They were almost as big a mess as the fronts. Lots of rustout where the fender met the body. Mucho cutting and replacing sections of metal,
all carefully shaped to fit.

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Ed had also sandblasted the lower sections of the body and we got our first look at the rust damage in that area. As usual, the blasting revealed all the hidden secrets the paint had been hiding. The good new was, that despite the rust holes in the rear fenders, the wheelwells themselves didn't need any metal replacement around the top - just a few small flat sections along the bottom.

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The lower driver's side turned out to be very solid - only one small section that will be easy to patch and a few pinholes that will weld up with no problem.

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Ed blasted the inside and everything looked good there, too. He will make sure all the rust is blasted out after the repair is done and then use a wand sprayer to coat the entire inside of this section with epoxy primer. This should make things good for the next eighty years.

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The passenger side was much worse. The entire lower section - inside and out - will have to be fabricated and used to replace the rust carnage. It will then get the same primer treatment. The sills and door bottoms on both sides look great. more good news.

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There were a few soft spots at the very bottom back of the body, but nothing major and patch panels will be easy to fabricate. The cowl and firewall look brand new - no corrosion at all. Very good news.

I can't wait to get everything back home so I can work on the frame and get the body and fenders over to the painter.

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By the way, does anyone know what this rubber mount/pad/damper is? It's a rubber piece bolted to the frame X-member, but nothing was attached to it and I can't figure out what it's supposed to do. Phil, crawl under your DL and let me know!

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By now it was almost two, so I headed back to Loop 70 to work some more on the motor.

Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)
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Back at Loop 70 it was time to take out the crankshaft. The 32 Dodge was the last year for babbitt bearings. The four main bearings are removable bronze-backed with a babbitt surface, sort of an insert bearing on a grand scale. The main caps were a bear to get off as they are attached with studs in the block and very difficult to pull straight off. If they get cocked at all when you're removing them, they'll bind against the threaded stud. It was a royal pain getting them off!

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Once exposed the main crank journals looked as good as the rod journals. The babbitt inserts also looked very good, but since we decided to grind the crank, they will get new babbitt also. Loop 70 doesn't pour babbitt, so the rods and bronze inserts will be sent to Harkin Machine Shop in Watertown, South Dakota. They will pour new babbitt in the rods and finish the inside diameter to the specs Loop 70 will send them once they grind the crank. Harkin will also pour new babbit in the bronze inserts. This will be done oversize and then Loop 70 will line bore the mains in place in the block to match the newly ground crank main journals. Harkin charges $65 per rod and $55 per main.

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We plan to get new pistons from Egge, new valves and a new timing chain and gear.

My final chore was the tedious task of removing the valves, springs and lifters. Nothing exciting there. I used a typical L-head valve spring tool and fished the keepers out with a magnet. Everything came out with no problem except for one valve that had to have its head filed to remove a bit of mushrooming. The area was pretty clean, without the gunk I expected, and that made things a lot easier.

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With the valves out, I removed the camshaft, which looks very good.

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With that, the motor was totally disassembled and ready for cleaning and machine work.

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The folks at Loop 70 were great and there was a constant influx of customers having work done there - guys with model As, thirty era Chevys, Mopar and others, all ready to talk cars. It was a fun day.

Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)
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Excellent progress and coverage of the progress! Thanks for the detailed shots and text. I will definitely be using this information when I do my DH6 engine. You are very lucky to be able to do some of the work yourself. It makes it less expensive and you get to learn and have pride in knowing you did a lot of it yourself.

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)
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By the way, does anyone know what this rubber mount/pad/damper is? It's a rubber piece bolted to the frame X-member, but nothing was attached to it and I can't figure out what it's supposed to do. Phil, crawl under your DL and let me know!

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That's going to remain a mystery for now. I squirmed under my DL and found I have exactly the same thing as you do: an empty bracket with no obvious function. Anybody else have a clue?

Before I took a look I was guessing it might have been something to do with the mounting of the original exhaust system since I know for a fact your exhaust system is not original. I had a new system installed around 1968 at Midas or Sears. A round muffler (like on my present DL) is the original style.

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I am wondering if that rubber block that is fitted to the frame is to eliminate harmonics or droning that can come from a vehicle I say this as there doesn't seem to be any way of attaching anything to it In short the rubber absorbed the noise Just a wild guess Ron

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It looks as though it is aligned with the exhaust pipe which seems to now be touching the frame member. I am suspecting it is part of an exhaust pipe hangar bracket. I have no further info. Just a thought because of the proximity of the exhaust pipe joint proximity to the rubberized mounting.

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It was Midas - it's stamped on the muffler. I, too, suspect it has something to do with the exhaust, but I sure can't figure out what.
I'm sure the resident mouse appreciated the roomier oval Midas muffler...'till I blew her nest out the tailpipe while waking up your DL!

What a smoldering mess all over the driveway! :eek:

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The distributor is at the engine re-builders at the moment. I'll check for you next time I'm there. It is a tiny little thing.

Yep. That sounds about right. Same as mine. Has the U shaped points.

Cheers.

Manuel in Oz

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