Tires and dealers

[Barney Eaton]

Move or erase this if it is i the wrong place or inappropriate. 

Today I went shopping for tires for my granddaughters 2020 Yukon. 

First they are not monster tires... 265/65r18 pretty common size for that type of vehicle. 

First it the price of the tires,  then the options and services including new TPM (tire pressure monitors)

which should be replaced when you get new tires.... if you don't the battery fails, the dash light stays on etc. 

The out the door price ranged from $1300 to $1500 range with TPM at different sources. 

I have purchased several sets of tires from the Tire Rack... I check their available tires before going to 

the big tire installers.   New news to me... the same private company owns both Discount Tire and The Tire Rack.   That became apparent when both companies offered the same tire at almost exactly the same price. 

TPM became standard in 2007.... one installer wanted $60 each ($240) while COSCO wanted $74.75 each,

I was under the impression your COSCO membership got you discounted merchandise.  COSCO also wanted more for the same tire.   

My final decision....... I ordered tires from the Tire Rack that none of the above carried or said they could get. 

Tire Rack will ship to retailers including Discount Tire.   I ordered 4 TPM from Amazon for under $30 for all 4

even if Discount Tire were to charge for installing customer supplied TPM I will have 4 tires installed for under

$1000.   Little wonder people are buying more online, I ordered the tires and TPM in about 15 minutes. 

I spent 3 hours in the morning going to tire stores, waiting in line to get pricing.   

[plymouthcranbrook]

Buying tire on line seems to be the option of choice today. I just bought the first set of new tires for my 1980 Plymouth Volare since 2007. First finding 14 inch tires is getting more exciting each year. And being that the car is a summer driver that will no doubt have these tires dry rotted long before the tread wears out means I really didn’t want to buy super expensive fancy tires either. So after shopping around I also finally  chose Discount Tire. I bought 4 Nexus 215 70 14 and one Milemaker(I think that is what it’s called)($20 cheaper) for the spare, the original spare now being 44 years old) and the cost all in was $756.00.  I hate to think what 5 Michelin tires would have cost. And as far as monitoring sensors go, I have a tire gauge and know how to use it.  And a roll of black tape as well.

Edited May 10 by plymouthcranbrook (see edit history)

[ABear]

3 minutes ago, Barney Eaton said:

First it the price of the tires,  then the options and services including new TPM (tire pressure monitors)

which should be replaced when you get new tires.... if you don't the battery fails, the dash light stays on etc. 

Yeah, tire prices are out of this world, not much you can do about that when you need them, you need them. Needed a couple of tires for my 2020 F250 last fall, $330 each mounted and balanced.

 

However, The TPMS transmitters DO NOT NEED replaced at every tire change, that IS a waste of your money. Who ever told you that was simply stealing money out of your pocket. The batteries in the TPMS transmitters are little Lithium coin batteries with a shelf life of 10 - 12 YEARS..

 

What DOES need to be done is to "retrain" the vehicle to the sensors as often what happens is the shop takes all the tires off at the same time and one by one puts them back on and often the rims get mixed around setting the TPMS light.. Each vehicle has a retraining method outlined in the owners manual. Tire shops should have a retraining tool that they simply place right at the valve stem of each tire to wake up the TPMS transmitter so the vehicle can identify the position.

 

Many newer vehicles actually are able to retrain on the fly while you are driving but you can retrain them yourself without a tool by looking up the info in the owners manual.

 

You can also buy a retraining tool, they are not expensive, can be often had for $20 or so.

 

In use, your sensor batteries should easily last 10 yrs before intermittent TPMS  errors and that tends to happen when the outdoor temps get around 32F or less like in the winter time.

 

I have a 2013 with original TPMS sensors, they started acting up a couple of yrs ago in cold weather but in the Summer work fine.

 

By the way, your generic TPMS sensors may need to be setup for your vehicle, may require a specialized tool for that which is different from a retaining only tool.

[TAKerry]

Not relevant to the AACA forum but I will chime in. I guess I got snookered as the last time I had a tire replaced the shop charged me $100 for the sensor!  Until that tire change I have been buying from the tire rack. Always cheapest price, and they have a shop near me that they will ship to free. I also had them do a few cars in my driveway with their tech guy delivering the tires I bought online, and changing them for a minimal fee. He had a sprinter van with a full compliment of tire changing tools, mounting and balancing. When I need tires I always check there first.

[Barney Eaton]

The big stores like NTB, Discount, Walmart and others will not honor road hazard warranty if you do not replace the valve stem/TPM

another way for them to make more $$$.    My story above is for my granddaughters car and she does not live near me.

If I had the car on my own turf,  I have resources like most of you to get a better deal.   I have purchased several sets of tires from the Tire Rack and like them because of the much greater selection of brands, type and price.    I am replacing the TPM on the granddaughter car only because I do not want the old TPM battery to go out in a couple of years and they are faced with dealing with it.   They may be trading vehicles in a couple of years but I am not involved in that decision making.

I know this site is for mostly collectable cars but we all own newer vehicles also, so I thought I would tell my tire story. 

[Laughing Coyote]

Since my new neighbor has his own tire machine and balancer it's just click, buy, mount, and balance. And he is just around the corner from me. Last time I went to Discount they wanted to sell me wipers too.

[Lahti35]

23 minutes ago, Laughing Coyote said:

Since my new neighbor has his own tire machine and balancer it's just click, buy, mount, and balance. And he is just around the corner from me. Last time I went to Discount they wanted to sell me wipers too.

I've been considering a tire machine myself recently... It's starting to look pretty good with the $$$ I spend on install and balancing these days. Moving auto related services in house definitely has advantages!

[29 Chandler]

I guess I am fortunate to have a good local tire store. the last time I needed tires for my truck I did my own research, found the tires I wanted and then went to my local store. They were able to order them for less than I was able to purchase them online. I am able to do the same with some of my classic cars from the 60's. The early cars I take care of at home.

[ABear]

1 hour ago, Barney Eaton said:

I am replacing the TPM on the granddaughter car only because I do not want the old TPM battery to go out in a couple of years and they are faced with dealing with it.   They may be trading vehicles in a couple of years but I am not involved in that decision making.

Understandable to a certain point.

 

Personally, I would have left that alone, especially considering that there is likely a good chance if they keep it another 4 yrs, there WILL be a need to replace the tires again before trading/selling.

 

Not to mention no one is going to pay more for a vehicle if you mention that you put new TPMS sensors in 2 or 4 yrs ago as those are considered consumables like tires and brakes..

 

But as I mentioned, the coin batteries in the sensors have pretty good life which outlasts quite a few sets of tires.

 

People have also been lulled into thinking that there is no need to manually check pressures with the TPMS requirements.. I taught my Daughter to at a minimum visually check the tires once and a while, that paid off big one day when she noticed a tire that had more pouch than the others before leaving for school.. I found a nail in between the tread.. The pressure was still above the TPMS trip point when she got home the day before.. She would have been an hr away at school with a flat tire by after noon..

 

Have had a few false TPMS errors also, one while towing a trailer 500 miles from home, trying to find a place to pull off with 26ft trailer in tow isn't always easy but after a few miles found a place to shoe horn it in.. Couldn't find anything wrong, air pressures via manual gauge were fine.. Drove it that way for 500 miles with the TPMS lit. Didn't go out until after I got home.

[joe_padavano]

I stopped going to tire stores when they started the whole "we can't just sell you one tire, you have to buy all four" BS. The final straw was when I tried to get two tires for my crewcab dually 4x4 to put on the front. The sales person had no clue about the difference between part-time 4WD and full-time AWD (or the fact that the transfer case didn't have a center differential, so I CAN'T drive it in 4WD on pavement very long). Even worse, he insisted that he had to sell me four tires. I pointed out that by his logic, wouldn't he have to only sell my SIX tires, since the truck was a dually. His response was "No, we'll put all four on the back."

 

 

I went out to the parking lot, jacked up the truck myself, and rolled the two wheels and tires into the shop, telling them "You don't know what I am putting these on." Right after that, I purchased a used rim clamp tire machine and spin balancer and haven't looked back. I refuse to own anything new enough to have TPMS, so that isn't an issue. I buy tires from whichever online source is cheapest. It takes only a few minutes to compare Tire Rack, Amazon, Discount Tire, and even vendors on Ebay for the lowest price delivered to my porch. I recently bought four BFG T/As for my new 1969 Cutlass wagon and a vendor on Ebay from the west coast was by far the least expensive. The tires showed up a few days later. I have to say that the best part about owning my own tire machines (aside from not having to deal with idiots) is that I can use them at times that are convenient for me.

Edited May 10 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[Barney Eaton]

Now I am drooling over having my own tire machine....... 

[JACK M]

I have owned my own tire machine for at least 40 years. And it was used when I bought it.

Don't use it much lately since I don't race much anymore.

The other day I scored a set of 18 inch wheels for a current project and bought some new tires online.

Thinking, this should be easy. Mount em up and drop in to the tire shop for a quick balance. Its not legal to put weights on the race cars.

Turns out the old machine didn't like the 18 inch wheels. 

I was able to get one mounted up and decided to take the whole pile to the shop and pay the hundred bucks.

I see modern tire equipment for sale and I am tempted. But the older I get I am not sure that it would be really cost effective over time.

[ABear]

I am with you Barney, have passed up a few used tire machines and wished I had bought one of them..

 

Did buy a HF manual tire changer to use for small tractor and 14" and 15" tires, but it is a workout, not sure I have the moxie to tackle 17" and 18" rims. As it was, have had to resort to using my log splitter to break the beads on some very old tires..

 

Tire shops in my area are killing me with junk fee's, $30 per tire mount/balance plus $25 charge to remove/install because it is a F250.. Small cars/SUVs are still no charge for remove/install, YET.. Yeah I realize the shop and employees must make some money but $120 plus $25 extra and we are now up to half the price of a 5th tire..

[zepher]

All those extra fees can add up real quick.

Throw in all of the nonsense fees Calif tacks on and you're way over the initial cost of just the tires.

[Andy J]

I agree with Zepher. I tried the discount tire route a couple of times to no avail. After mounting and balancing,new valve stems,and trying to sell you things you don't need or want,I didn't save a dime.

 

I'm like some of the others;I may try to find a used tire machine and do it myself. I changed out many tires with a manual machine.If you bolt it to the floor and use plenty of soapy lube,it ain't too bad.

[joe_padavano]

The nickel and dime fees are only part of it. I've also recently run into a problem where I had picked up a nail in one of my trailer tires. I managed to limp it to the nearest tire store (a Pep Boys). I asked it if they could repair it. They said sure, bring the tire in. I went out, removed the tire, brought it in, and was told by the manager that they don't work on trailer tires. 🙄

[joe_padavano]

2 minutes ago, Andy J said:

I'm like some of the others;I may try to find a used tire machine and do it myself. I changed out many tires with a manual machine.If you bolt it to the floor and use plenty of soapy lube,it ain't too bad.

I think I paid about $300 or so for my rim-clamp machine. Just the pneumatic bead breaker is worth it. The only downside is that it is getting more difficult and more expensive to properly dispose of the old tires. And the local government wonders why it has to pay people to pick up tires discarded on the side of the road.

[Andy J]

I had a similar experience years ago at a Sears auto shop.My wife's car had a flat on a Sunday.I took the tire off and took it to Sears. All I wanted was them to plug it,for the tire had about 50% tread left. They asked me,"is it a Sears tire?" I said,"no,but what difference does that matter?"  This was at least 25 years ago and they wanted $20 against $5 for plugging a Sears tire. I told them to shove it and I drove to Walmart and bought a cheap tire plugging kit and have been fixing my flats ever since.Of course,I have better tools for this today. Never had one fail yet and I have plugged probably 150 tires since that day.

[Dr B]

5 minutes ago, Andy J said:

have plugged probably 150 tires since that day.

Wow, that's a lot of flat tires! 😱 

Do you drive through piles of nails! 🤣  

 

Robert

[Rusty_OToole]

1 hour ago, Dr B said:

Wow, that's a lot of flat tires! 😱 

Do you drive through piles of nails! 🤣  

 

Robert

A couple of years ago I needed some tires to move a junk car around. Bought a set from a junk yard, complete with wheels. 3 held air, one would not. I had to plug FOUR nail holes to get it to hold air. Never saw anything like that before.

[39BuickEight]

With the sensors, like the tires, they come in all sorts of brands and prices.  At least if you buy them yourself you know what you are getting.  COSCO might have been using a different part.  You can spend $1000 on sensors if you try hard enough. 😆

[zepher]

With TPMS sensors, you do need to do a bit of research to make sure you get ones that will work with your vehicle.

Often even the same manufacturer will have sensors that operate on different frequencies depending on exact year and model of vehicle they are going into.

So you can't just buy some sensors for a 'GM' of whatever year and be sure they will work.

Of course, having an old sensor in your hand so you can read the numbers and frequencies does help a lot but most of us go hunting for new TPMS sensors before the old tires have been removed from the wheels.

[Larry Schramm]

On 5/9/2024 at 5:35 PM, ABear said:

However, The TPMS transmitters DO NOT NEED replaced at every tire change, that IS a waste of your money. Who ever told you that was simply stealing money out of your pocket. The batteries in the TPMS transmitters are little Lithium coin batteries with a shelf life of 10 - 12 YEARS..

 

You can also buy a retraining tool, they are not expensive, can be often had for $20 or so.

 

In use, your sensor batteries should easily last 10 yrs before intermittent TPMS  errors and that tends to happen when the outdoor temps get around 32F or less like in the winter time.

 

Absolutely true.  They have a 10 year life design.

[JFranklin]

Just saw this tire machine.

 

https://eugene.craigslist.org/for/d/cave-junction-tire-changer-by-coats/7741652729.html

[joe_padavano]

12 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

With the sensors, like the tires, they come in all sorts of brands and prices.  At least if you buy them yourself you know what you are getting.  COSCO might have been using a different part.  You can spend $1000 on sensors if you try hard enough. 😆

FYI, COSCO makes and sells stepladders (and other office products). COSTCO (with a "T") sells tires (and ginormous packages of stuff you usually don't really need).

 

https://www.coscoproducts.com/collections/ladders

 

https://www.costco.com/

[joe_padavano]

5 hours ago, JFranklin said:

Just saw this tire machine.

 

https://eugene.craigslist.org/for/d/cave-junction-tire-changer-by-coats/7741652729.html

Coats 1010 machines go for less than that. This one is $300.

 

[TAKerry]

I used to have a big truck. We used a local tire guy for tire service. They do a great job, had road trucks that would do onsite service for our backhoes and such. When those guys changed tires they worked their butts off. I have nothing but respect for tire changers. Buying a machine and doing it myself seems like punishment!! I bought a tire for my motorcycle online a few years ago and figured no biggie. I fought with that thing for a couple of days before I took it to a motorcycle shop, he had it mounted and balanced in about 5 minutes. I will let the pros do the job!

[ABear]

7 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

I used to have a big truck. We used a local tire guy for tire service. They do a great job, had road trucks that would do onsite service for our backhoes and such. When those guys changed tires they worked their butts off. I have nothing but respect for tire changers. Buying a machine and doing it myself seems like punishment!!

Tire shop I go to handles tires from lawn and garden tractors, to cars, to pickup trucks and semi tractor/trailers.

 

The machines they have in the car bays do not handle semi tires, they have a separate bay for that which can even handle spilt rims. Even with that equipment, I have watched their mechanics change two front steer tires by hand outside in front of the semi tractor. All they used was two 4ft tire spoons with one mechanic on each spoon.. Had old tire off, new on and back on the semi in about 20 minutes..

 

While I would agree changing tires is a lot like punishment, but when you start adding up the excess fees and you can almost buy an 5th tire with those fees it is becoming a much more of a cost cutting need to cut down the costs where ever you can..

 

I bought a manual tire changer from HF to fix a tire on a 70's car I am working on that had been going flat in a few days.. I broke even on the cost of that manual changer just fixing that leak myself, otherwise I would have had to shell out $30 to have them dismount, clean the bead, then remount. Yeah, the bead was stuck, but was able to free it with my log splitter plus a few boards to prevent damage to tire and rim.. Once the bead was broke, lots of soapy water is used to encourage the tire to come off.

 

The next 14" tire I need to deal with is free..

[LARRYCAROL]

Vw first installed sensors in 2003 Touareg’s, 5 yr batteries, but after 4 they would start acting up. 4 sensors at $125 each 2 hours labor to install and reset( 10 to 15 mile drive) bill with tax close to $1000! Most people said NO. Those early systems were nightmare!! 😳took hours to diagnose intermittent problems. 

[Andy J]

Some have asked how I've had so many flats.For 25 yrs we live in a very rural area with at least 2 miles of dirt/gravel road in any direction to get to our house.Our county supervisor bought ballast rock from an abandoned RR track and had it spread on our roads.Every time the road was graded,all the things that got into tires came to the surface.Nails,screws,wire,glass,rocks,large thorns,staples,even RR spikes have gotten into my tires.I averaged two flats per month,some fixable,others were not.Anything that can stick in a tire,I've had it.Cheap tires,expensive tires,none hold up under those conditions.

 

We sold that place 5  1/2 yrs ago and moved closer to town on paved roads.Since then,I have fixed 3 flats,one each on my wife's car,my trailer,and my zero turn mower.I had never worn out a set of tires until then.

[playswithbrass]

We bought our truck tires at Costco. Fantastic after sales service. 
Our 2008 Sierra is working its way through needing its TPSs replacing. And yes, they need to be programmed so that they talk to the trucks main computer. Only way they can provide the information 

[ABear]

3 hours ago, playswithbrass said:

We bought our truck tires at Costco. Fantastic after sales service. 
Our 2008 Sierra is working its way through needing its TPSs replacing. And yes, they need to be programmed so that they talk to the trucks main computer. Only way they can provide the information 

Don't try that with Sams club.

 

They refused to order and install the tires I wanted to buy, the tires I wanted had a 7MPH lower speed rating than the OEM tires.. The OEM tires were rated 112 MPH, the replacements I wanted were speed rated at 105 MPH, the F250 I have is factory speed limited to 92 MPH..

 

As far as programming TPMS units, there is two different distinct types of programming involved.

 

The first type is simply retraining the sensors to the new positions which happens when you move the rims from the original positions that they were trained to. You can retrain your vehicle to learn the correct sensor positions without any tools. Details on how to retrain will be outlined in your owners manual. While a retrain tool is not needed, having one does make this a snap to perform the retraining.

 

I know on Fords, it is a lot like the old days of removing or installing a car stereo upsidedown..

 

On the Fords, you have to drive the vehicle above 20 MPH for at least 5 minutes before the sensors wakeup.. Then you have to go through a bunch of gyrations with key on off, brake pedal and few other buttons all done within 30 seconds to get into training mode.. Once in training mode you have 30 seconds to let out the air below alarm pressure point to get a horn beep, move to the next tire and repeat until all positions have been accepted.. Of course after all that you have to air up your tires..

 

Having a training tool, you can skip the drive and the need to let air out, just enter training mode (yeah, still have to go through the key and brake gyrations) and then place tool against the valve stem and push the tool button until you get horn beep, repeat for all positions and done. The training tool wakes up and activates the sensor to send the proper low pressure signal for retraining mode.

 

The second type of programming has to do with programing the sensors to match your specific vehicle manufacturer when buying generic replacement sensors. Generic sensors unlike factory OEM often have the ability to be programmed to use one of several frequency ranges. For those sensors there is a specific programming tool that you have to use to set the sensor to your vehicles frequency requirements before installing the sensors into the tire.

 

If you buy the factory OEM sensors specifically for your vehicle, you do not need to program or set the transmit frequency.

Edited May 11 by ABear (see edit history)

[Dr B]

11 hours ago, Andy J said:

Some have asked how I've had so many flats.For 25 yrs we live in a very rural area with at least 2 miles of dirt/gravel road in any direction to get to our house.Our county supervisor bought ballast rock from an abandoned RR track and had it spread on our roads.Every time the road was graded,all the things that got into tires came to the surface.Nails,screws,wire,glass,rocks,large thorns,staples,even RR spikes have gotten into my tires.I averaged two flats per month,some fixable,others were not.Anything that can stick in a tire,I've had it.Cheap tires,expensive tires,none hold up under those conditions.

 

We sold that place 5  1/2 yrs ago and moved closer to town on paved roads.Since then,I have fixed 3 flats,one each on my wife's car,my trailer,and my zero turn mower.I had never worn out a set of tires until then.

DOUBLE WOW! 😱

 

Glad you moved. You must be savings thousands of dollars a year just on tires alone!

 

Robert

[TAKerry]

Abear, the guys that changed the big truck tires would use a 12lb sledge with a wedge on one side. I assume it is an 'official' tire changing tool. They would overhead swing and hit the tire in the right spot everytime. Never hitting the rim. Once the bead was loose an enormous pair of spoons. Like I said, those guys worked their tails off. NO THANKS.

[ABear]

3 hours ago, TAKerry said:

Abear, the guys that changed the big truck tires would use a 12lb sledge with a wedge on one side. I assume it is an 'official' tire changing tool. They would overhead swing and hit the tire in the right spot everytime. Never hitting the rim. Once the bead was loose an enormous pair of spoons. Like I said, those guys worked their tails off. NO THANKS.

Yeah, that is pretty much spot on for what I witnessed with watching the tire shop change some semi tires, was a bit surprised they were doing it that way as that shop is equipped with pretty much any tire related machines as possible.. They even have their own recap equipment and still do recaps there.

 

But changing car tires with the fully automated tire changers isn't much labor like it used to be, they drop the tire assembly on the machine, it clamps the rim they hit the bead breaker pedal and rotate pedal, then lower the spoon.. Doesn't take more than 5 minutes per tire to remove and remount new tire.. Then off to the automated tire balancer which displays exact weight and location the weight needs to be.

 

Doubt they spend more than 10 minutes per tire in a good well oiled shop.. Two guys working on one vehicle should be able to change all four tires in 30-40 minutes.. with the worst of the work is just removing and reinstalling on the vehicle.