Engine straps

[BlueDevil]

I had to remove a freshly painted and assembled engine and didn't want to take the head off to use the studs with my engine hoist.

 

I went to Harbor Freight and got 2,  6400# WLL (working load limit) straps. Cost was under $10 each if you are a member of their club.

 

I like them a lot better than the chains and I could still use my leveler.

 

 

[ABear]

A+ for creativity

 

However F- for safety.

 

That could get real ugly in a hurry if for any reason the engine shifted inside the straps.

 

You have something like 10,000 bolts on that engine you could choose from to lift with that would increase the safety factor greatly..

 

I would have tried to find a few bolt locations to securely bolt a chain to..

[avgwarhawk]

15 hours ago, ABear said:

A+ for creativity

 

However F- for safety.

 

That could get real ugly in a hurry if for any reason the engine shifted inside the straps.

 

You have something like 10,000 bolts on that engine you could choose from to lift with that would increase the safety factor greatly..

 

I would have tried to find a few bolt locations to securely bolt a chain to..

F for safety?  Crane companies use similar straps everyday! 

 

 

[nearchoclatetown]

I was a millwright for 20 years. We lifted like this every day. With no oil pan the back strap would have been between crank throws, the front was at a good place. In a " basket" as this is he had the full 6400 load of each strap to his advantage. Ease up, Bluedevil did good. 

[BlueDevil]

Thanks nearchocolatetown.

 

Are you ex Bethlehem? I was at Pittsburgh, Aliquippa, and Cleveland works.

 

I am finishing my 50th and last year in the steel industry and this is how we changed the rolls in the rolling mills, at least the smaller ones.

[ABear]

1 hour ago, avgwarhawk said:

F for safety?  Crane companies use similar straps everyday!

Crane companies and pretty much any other company that does overhead lifting also uses more care when securing said straps. Not to mention Crane companies and pretty much any other company to stay in business require the use of PPE plus proper safety protocols that just plain does not happen in a home shop.

 

It isn't the strap that is the problem, it comes down to how the load is not really secured. As it is, the front strap is not far from popping out and away from the FRONT of the block.

 

When you go to install said block into a vehicle, you tend to have to tip the back of the block down. That shifts the center of gravity, the front becomes lighter, that action reduces the weight on the front strap. Once you reduce the weight on the front strap, there is less gripping force and the block can slip at the top. Sure the bottom of the block at the front has some iron that may keep block from falling completely out.. But is that really a good idea? You are using nothing but gravity and friction and that works fine in static modes, but gravity (COG) and friction change once you start moving the block around to position it in a car.

 

Not to mention, you are using the straps as a sling, block depending on how it is made can be heavier on one side, making it a bit less stable.

 

I would hate to be the one that gave advice to less knowledgeable folks which results in loss of fingers and toes..

 

Make a couple of lift plates for attaching mechanically to the block or head and be safe.

 

And yes, I HAVE worked in a industrial manufacturing company for over 20 yrs with a lot of metal much heavier than that engine block. Slinging things wasn't typically used, every thing that was lifted had to use proper attachment points and methods. If no attachment point, then call in the safety team and engineering team to check and double check the setup.

 

 

[c49er]

Me....I'll use the chains/L brackets always...each to their own...be safe for sure.

I don't want to drop an engine.

[dodge28]

Go to most trucking shipping companies and get them for free. They throw them out after use by their customers. 

[TTR]

Only safety related worry I read/see is straps having been acquired from “Horrid Fright” for $10 a piece, which itself should be more than alarming about their “quality”(?), if that’s even a right word to use with anything they  sell.

[BlueDevil]

Don't worry, I had my neighbor get under the engine to inspect it.

[ABear]

For those that don't, can't or are just ignoring seeing the problem..

 

Unless you are going to put this in a open frame with no body on, you will typically have to change the angle of the engine.. That is what the adjustable spreader is for.

 

In some cases small angle, in some cases to clear everything in the engine bay a drastic angle of attack will be needed.

 

So, number one arrow, you drop the rear of the engine.

 

That leads to the front of engine moving up (number 2 arrow), moving up also means center of gravity has moved towards the rear of the engine (number 7 arrow). This means you now have less weight on the front strap which in turn reduces the friction at the top of the front strap, that leads to number 6 arrow in red circle wanting to slip off the head. Number 5 arrow in red circle is another problem waiting to happen, when more weight shifts to the back strap, the strap will easily slide right off the end of the starter.. I suspect even though rear strap will have more weight and hence a bit more friction, the jolt in strap dropping off the starter lead to rear strap also moving forward (arrow number 3).. If you have a finger, hand arm or any other body part between the engine and engine bay or even the floor, good chance you might not have that body part attached to long..

Edited March 28 by ABear (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

I think the thing that impresses me most about this thread is that it took nine whole posts before someone crapped on Harbor Freight... 🙄

[TAKerry]

I guess any safety officer and many an engineer would scoff, but I dont see that big of a deal with the lift. The scarier thing to me is the motor sitting on those jack stands!

 

Abear, you would have had a field day with the motor stand I built out of scrap lumber, And no one was hurt!

Edited March 28 by TAKerry (see edit history)

[BlueDevil]

Hence still being attached to the hoist. Work is done, goes back in Saturday.

[avgwarhawk]

9 hours ago, ABear said:

Crane companies and pretty much any other company that does overhead lifting also uses more care when securing said straps. Not to mention Crane companies and pretty much any other company to stay in business require the use of PPE plus proper safety protocols that just plain does not happen in a home shop.

 

It isn't the strap that is the problem, it comes down to how the load is not really secured. As it is, the front strap is not far from popping out and away from the FRONT of the block.

 

When you go to install said block into a vehicle, you tend to have to tip the back of the block down. That shifts the center of gravity, the front becomes lighter, that action reduces the weight on the front strap. Once you reduce the weight on the front strap, there is less gripping force and the block can slip at the top. Sure the bottom of the block at the front has some iron that may keep block from falling completely out.. But is that really a good idea? You are using nothing but gravity and friction and that works fine in static modes, but gravity (COG) and friction change once you start moving the block around to position it in a car.

 

Not to mention, you are using the straps as a sling, block depending on how it is made can be heavier on one side, making it a bit less stable.

 

I would hate to be the one that gave advice to less knowledgeable folks which results in loss of fingers and toes..

 

Make a couple of lift plates for attaching mechanically to the block or head and be safe.

 

And yes, I HAVE worked in a industrial manufacturing company for over 20 yrs with a lot of metal much heavier than that engine block. Slinging things wasn't typically used, every thing that was lifted had to use proper attachment points and methods. If no attachment point, then call in the safety team and engineering team to check and double check the setup.

 

 

This engine lifted with straps does not require gaffers. It's not 20 tons.  OSHA is not required.  The straps replaced chains. The engine can still be tilted and maneuvered into place.  Sorry, simply not with you on this one. 

Edited March 28 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

3 hours ago, ABear said:

For those that don't, can't or are just ignoring seeing the problem..

 

Unless you are going to put this in a open frame with no body on, you will typically have to change the angle of the engine.. That is what the adjustable spreader is for.

 

In some cases small angle, in some cases to clear everything in the engine bay a drastic angle of attack will be needed.

 

So, number one arrow, you drop the rear of the engine.

 

That leads to the front of engine moving up (number 2 arrow), moving up also means center of gravity has moved towards the rear of the engine (number 7 arrow). This means you now have less weight on the front strap which in turn reduces the friction at the top of the front strap, that leads to number 6 arrow in red circle wanting to slip off the head. Number 5 arrow in red circle is another problem waiting to happen, when more weight shifts to the back strap, the strap will easily slide right off the end of the starter.. I suspect even though rear strap will have more weight and hence a bit more friction, the jolt in strap dropping off the starter lead to rear strap also moving forward (arrow number 3).. If you have a finger, hand arm or any other body part between the engine and engine bay or even the floor, good chance you might not have that body part attached to long..

Paralysis by analysis.

By the time all the hand wringing, harrumphing, and doom saying is said and done the engine will have been safely nestled in it,s motor mounts and the job washed down with a nice cold beer...bob

[TTR]

2 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

I think the thing that impresses me most about this thread is that it took nine whole posts before someone crapped on Harbor Freight... 🙄

Do I win something ?

A merit badge or star sticker at least ?

[ABear]

1 minute ago, avgwarhawk said:

This engine lifted with straps does not require gaffers. It's not 20 tons.  OSHA is not required.  The straps replaced chains. The engine can still be tilted and maneuvered into place.  Sorry, simply not with you on this one. 

Doesn't have to be 20tons, 200 lbs worth of iron dropping even inches can and will smash fingers or toes to the point they need removed.

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with the straps, I don't have a gripe about the use of straps.

 

The problem is the straps are not attached in any way shape or manner that will not allow the engine to shift or the top of the straps shift once you start tilting the rear down. No matter how much you try to justify poor rigging, you can't outsmart or change gravity.

 

I hope and wish all goes well to the OP and others that may do the same manner, but myself, well I HAVE different lifting plates that can be bolted on to the top or sides of engines which really is the better, more secure way to handle a chunk of iron. Doesn't take much to make a couple of lifting plates, some angle steel, drill a couple of holes and you have lifting solid lifting points.. OP has a flat head, lots of spots there to attach, take nut off, install lift plate, put nut on.

 

Not sure why it is so hard to make it safer but go ahead and do it your way.

[ABear]

4 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Paralysis by analysis.

By the time all the hand wringing, harrumphing, and doom saying is said and done the engine will have been safely nestled in it,s motor mounts and the job washed down with a nice cold beer...bob

Or when the job goes sideways might be in the ER sipping on a few units of blood instead..

 

I try to find ways to stay out of the ER and keep my blood and body parts intact.

 

I think perhaps this thread should be nominated for Darwin awards for at least an "honorable" mention, someone is going to follow it and eventually get hurt..

[Frank DuVal]

15 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

Crane companies use similar straps everyday! 

Yes! And picking up way heavier and expensive stuff too.😉

[Frank DuVal]

4 hours ago, ABear said:

200 lbs worth of iron dropping even inches can and will smash fingers or toes to the point they need removed.

Simple, don't put your body parts between heavy things and immovable objects. Rule 1. Never ignore rule 1.

 

 

4 hours ago, ABear said:

OP has a flat head, lots of spots there to attach, take nut off, install lift plate, put nut on.

I've seen head gaskets go bad from this approach, well if the nut is on a head stud, as most of those in the picture are.

 

I do agree a more rearward placement of the rear strap would be better. If the strap is held by a crank main then it isn't going anywhere. I would still follow rule #1!

[c49er]

10 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

I think the thing that impresses me most about this thread is that it took nine whole posts before someone crapped on Harbor Freight... 🙄

I hate Horrow Freight...only thing I ever bought there was some lead cotter pins....they imediately wilted on my rear brake drum castilated  hub nuts.

Cheap crap.

[Oz Dodge 4]

ABear is spot on with this, the straps are fine for what they were intended, but lifting a top heavy engine in this unsupported way is just plain "dangerous"

If that engine starts to move because the tension has lightened on the straps and the heavy top tries to turn the whole thing can turn and if your arm is between the engine and whatever you could loose it. If I did this where I worked, (and I used straps, chains, engine cranes, forklifts ect at the industrial place I worked) the forman would at best have reamed me a new a#####e, but if anything had happened, I would have been shown the door!

[hook]

For safety sake.....................please stop working on cars! Don't drive cars, they may break and hit something! Don't even look at them, you might hurt your eyes! Don't use straps, they might slip! Don't use bolts through chains, they might strip threads or break! Be sure to wear suspenders and belt so your pants won't fall and expose what you don't have! Just put on you bubble suit and try to survive!

[hook]

They need to use chains bolted through the hull! Doesn't the Coast Guard know anything?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

5 hours ago, c49er said:

I hate Horrow Freight...only thing I ever bought there was some lead cotter pins....they imediately wilted on my rear brake drum castilated  hub nuts.

Cheap crap.

 

 180*.   For the price, I find them not too bad. Not the best. They have stuff others do not. Gets the job done.

 

  Ben

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, hook said:

For safety sake.....................please stop working on cars! Don't drive cars, they may break and hit something! Don't even look at them, you might hurt your eyes! Don't use straps, they might slip! Don't use bolts through chains, they might strip threads or break! Be sure to wear suspenders and belt so your pants won't fall and expose what you don't have! Just put on you bubble suit and try to survive!

 

 BRAVO!!!

 

  Ben

[hook]

3 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 180*.   For the price, I find them not too bad. Not the best. They have stuff others do not. Gets the job done.

 

  Ben

I agree. Most importantly, know what you're buying and steer clear of those items that are crap. If you can't tell the difference, then you have no business doing the job.

[TAKerry]

I am all about safety, and could the original lift have been done safer? probably. However I am sure that Bdevil had shifting and dropping etc. in his sights when he was doing so. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do!  I will not take short cuts anymore. I have done so more times than I would like to think about. For this particular lift I probably would have done the same or similar. When I lifted my motor into place (about 700#) I had it rigged up about 5 different ways before I was ready to do the job. In the end it was perfectly safe but I was still extra carefull. Lifted it about inch off the stand and let it sit for a bit, then another inch until I was finally comfortable. I kinda laughed at myself and thought that a seasoned person doing this would have not had a problem at all.

[ABear]

14 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Simple, don't put your body parts between heavy things and immovable objects. Rule 1. Never ignore rule 1.

Unfortunately, not in ALL cases when messing around in an engine compartment do you have the luxury of working space. So while your rule number one is a fantastically overly optimistic take on life, in reality not ALWAYS applicable.

 

Have had some engines drop right in, but also have had lots that getting them to fit and mate with engine mounts and clear the firewall at the same time is like trying to stuff 50lbs of potatoes into a 5lb sack.

 

Number 1 rule actually should be SECURE the stupid thing well to avoid the inevitable of gravity and friction no longer deciding to play well with a unsecured load.

 

Depending on friction is a fools errand, plain and simple, friction of the strap webbing, the paint, the surface of an item.. Unless you are a professor in friction coefficients and have the means to verify the friction is going to exceed the load you might want to refer back to my number one rule.

 

By the way, the OP WILL want to re torque the head after a heat and cool cycle (and I am sure that there will be many opposing opinions to that). Never lost a head gasket re torquing after one or two heat up and cool down cycles.

 

And, yes, I have re torqued engine heads from 100+ yr old hit and miss engines, air cooled engines, 1960s. 1970s, 1980s 6 and v8s that I have worked on.

Edited March 29 by ABear (see edit history)

[Jim Bollman]

I hesitated if I should post my strap engine install, with all the negative comments. Much lighter straps and much lighter engine.  Front strap is a tie down strap for motorcycles or axle strap for light cars like Crosleys, back, I don't remember where I got. Engine as it is hanging probably around a 100lbs.  The straps go around the engine in places they can not slip.  The front strap goes through a space in the block, the back is between the flywheel and an offset in the pan.  It is a tight fit into the engine compartment and the picture doesn't show rotating the engine a little yet to fit.  It is back in and running as of a few days ago.  I use to use chains but this worked so well it will be my new system.  First time I used a leveler, worked good.

[c49er]

I appreciate your post! Your picture was great...thanks for posting it!👍

 

I use a single chain and "L" bracket attached by one head bolt when pulling straight eights and other flat heads out of my Chrysler/MoPar parts cars with a full size backhoe.

Kinda brutal but have never dropped one.. the  Chrysler 8's are around 850lbs.

I never would use a single chain installing one in a car though.😯

Over the years have done many many engine R&R's of all types.

We all have our own  ways of getting things done.

[joe_padavano]

On 3/29/2024 at 9:38 PM, Jim Bollman said:

I hesitated if I should post my strap engine install, with all the negative comments. Much lighter straps and much lighter engine.  Front strap is a tie down strap for motorcycles or axle strap for light cars like Crosleys, back, I don't remember where I got. Engine as it is hanging probably around a 100lbs.  The straps go around the engine in places they can not slip.  The front strap goes through a space in the block, the back is between the flywheel and an offset in the pan.  It is a tight fit into the engine compartment and the picture doesn't show rotating the engine a little yet to fit.  It is back in and running as of a few days ago.  I use to use chains but this worked so well it will be my new system.  First time I used a leveler, worked good.

I'm thinking that the cast iron intake manifold for my big block Olds motors weigh more than that Crossley. 😁

[Gronk]

I will try that. I'll just double up on the straps!😁

[Lahti35]

I had a guy give me a set of straps like that once, 1/2 the width of BlueDevils, while lifting a 1600lb milling machine onto my trailer. Told me to keep them for unloading. I've since used them with my hoist to life engines, transmissions, etc, more often than I can remember. Handy they are!