James Matthews Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 I am building a garage and I would like to install a garage lift. In researching a lift there seems to be a lot of choices. At the moment, I am thinking about installing a Backyard Buddy Classic or an Advantage lift. One thing that I am having a hard time understanding about the BYB and Advantage lifts is the company recommends leaving the lifts free standing because of their construction as opposed to anchoring the lift but it is an option. In my research, I have found nothing but positive comments on both lifts. I plan to use the lift to help restore a 1981 corvette. I would appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts, ideas, suggestions and if anyone has any experience with BYB or Advantage lifts. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 I have a Direct Lift 4-post lift. I went with it because it is ALI certified and has (relatively) local parts and service support. The one thing I did and HIGHLY recommend is spending the extra $ to buy the sliding hydraulic jack. Mine came with the usual steel jack tray (supply your own jack), but the accessory axle jack is much more convenient, capable and safer. I have no complaints. Make sure that you have at least 10 feet of floor to ceiling height. I have 10 feet and though it's OK, 12 would be better... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 No hoist works for every job. The different types have advantages and disadvantages, big advantages and disadvantages. The most useful type of hoist BY FAR is an offset 2-post floor mounted hoist. There is a reason you will see several of them in a typical service shop for every one four post hoist. The reason to get an offset 2-post hoist rather than a symmetrical one is that it is impossible to open a door once the blocks are set. It is a problem even on offset hoists, but not as big of a problem. The typical thing to do with either type is to get out with the car in neutral and roll it into position to set the blocks. We have had threads like this before, and 2-post doesn't get any love around this forum. It is because you have to get down on your knees about 4 times, maybe more if you are inexperienced, just to set the blocks on one car. It is a valid point. I used to do it all day long, and it just kills my knees now. I feel their pain... literally. I'd still get a 2-post hoist. There are some jobs you can't do on a 2-post hoist. That is why many shops have one four poster in addition to all the 2-posters. The difference is the car sits on it's wheels. for instance, it is necessary for exhaust work, alignment, and suspension work. The trouble is for most jobs the hoist will be EXTREMELY in your way. You will find that your hand is too big and that your arm is too short and does not have enough joints in it to reach whatever it is you are trying to reach. How old the car is has an effect, as really old cars have most of the mechanical stuff right down the center, and the engines tend to be inline. That makes it less bad. With the Corvette, I think you will hate it. On anything much newer than the Corvette, or anything front wheel drive, you will still be working on the floor with jack stands about 3/4 of the time. The "bring your own jack" accessory @EmTee mentioned I am not sure I have ever seen. A common setup on 4 post hoists is a pneumatic jack setup you can roll back and forth. You DEFINITELY want this if you get a 4-post. In fact you want two of them, which is the most common setup. With 2 you can lift both ends of the car at the same time. These have movable blocks that let you widen it out and lift from points blocked by the part of the hoist you drive on. These are optional when you are shopping, but are not optional in real life. If you don't have a compressor, or yours is tiny, or has no tank, plan on getting a better one. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 The deciding factor for me on the 4-post lift was I use it to store my GP during the winter months. There are compromises as Bloo noted, however, I haven't run into anything yet that I couldn't do because I don't have a 2-post lift. The optional axle jack helps offset some of the inherent limitations, at least for me. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matthews Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 Hi EmTee and Bloo, thank you both for your advice and comments. I appreciate it. You both brought up some good points that I will consider. EmTee, thank you for posting a picture of your lift and garage. I really like your GTO, very nice. Bloo, I figured that I will probably be getting a set of Jack Stands as well. Also, the more I read, it seems everyone suggest going bigger with a compressor. Thank you for the good advice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avanti Bill Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 I have a Bendpak which seems to be well built and is certified. I got a 9000 lbs lift as the ratings are with the wheels on the cross arms so a short heavy vehicle could exceed the rating of a 7000 lift. I do believe the two post lifts are the best for working on the car and the Rotary brand is one of the best but expensive compared to others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Peck Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 The Automotive program in which I studied had both 2 and 4 post lifts. I suppose I should be better prepared to discuss the pros and cons of each. I get the impression that the two post lifts would be easier to move, if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 2 posts lifts are bolted to the floor. Some 4 post lifts are too, but 4 post lifts that do not have to be attached to the floor exist. Some can even be rolled around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avanti Bill Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 2 post lifts have to be bolted to the floor and the floor really needs to be reinforced where they bolt down. The four post mostly sit on the floor and are very stable even without bolting down and no reinforcement is needed. I would have prefered a two post but the floor was already poured and I didn't want to break it up and put the pads in for the two post. The four post mostly come with rollers which you can lower the lift down on and that will lift the feet off the floor to allow some easy movement though I have never tried doing that. For most hobbyist doing light mechanical work the 4 post work fine and are cheaper than a good two post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 There are lots of threads on this subject. If I only had one lift, it would be a 4 post. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Peck Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 So, if you were designing a garage floor from scratch you might want to include pads for two post lifts in case you wanted to go that route in the future. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 James Peck,that is what I did when building my shop. It has a 4'X4'X6" extra concrete footing under each post. I have an Atlas 2 post lift rated at 9000 lbs. It isn't a commercial grade lift,but it is just fine for what I'm doing. I paid $1800 for it,plus shipping.One year later the price doubled.I installed it myself. It is true that you have to get on the floor to get the lift arms adjusted to the car.I'm 71 with no physical problems,so it isn't a big deal for me to get everything situated.I have marks on the floor and on the lift arms to tell me exactly where I need to put everything before I lift. I have marks for each car I have that helps me get everything lined up quicker.Of course,I check everything before I lift.This has been the greatest thing ever when working on brakes.I hardly ever use a creeper anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Century Eight Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 When I poured my floor, I wasn't sure what lift I would get and still haven’t, but in the general vicinity of where the lift is to go, I dug deeper holes for a two post lift and also holes for a four post lift. Then,, when the concrete was poured, all the holes were filled in deeper, with additional inches of concrete ready for either scenario. Just measure from the wall, the point where you deepened the floor so you don't forget. Also spend the extra money for another inch or so of concrete and put in key ways or expansion joints so it never cracks. You’ll love your floor. It would also be better for a roll around lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 5 hours ago, Century Eight said: When I poured my floor, I wasn't sure what lift I would get and still haven’t, but in the general vicinity of where the lift is to go, I dug deeper holes for a two post lift and also holes for a four post lift. Then,, when the concrete was poured, all the holes were filled in deeper, with additional inches of concrete ready for either scenario. Just measure from the wall, the point where you deepened the floor so you don't forget. Also spend the extra money for another inch or so of concrete and put in key ways or expansion joints so it never cracks. You’ll love your floor. It would also be better for a roll around lift. I have been working construction for 40+ years. Have readied, placed and rubbed more than my share of concrete. 2 things I can guarantee: 1. Wet concrete will get hard 2. It will crack 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Century Eight Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Agree 100%, it’s guaranteed to crack but you can control the crack, no? The last time we poured at my place, the guy said about 9 x 13 is about as big as you can pour without a crack. What he said worked. Earlier pours, that guy didn’t put enough joints in, and it cracked all over the place. Looks terrible. I have a farm and we pour occasionally. Of course all the other stuff matters, temp, thickness, mix etc. In my limited experience, enough joints make all the difference.. I love my floor, and hate my drive (not enough joints). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 Bill your 4 post situation sounds similar to what I ran across. My neighbor tragically passed away. He was a car guy, and did restoration in his shop next to his house. He had a really nice 2 post lift. I was friends with his wife and eventually asked if she would sell the lift to me. She said I was too late as she had already made a deal with someone else, and was just waiting for the guy to pick it up. I watched for literally a year and it was still there. She put her house for sale, I was helping her clean the shop and again asked about the lift. Same story. Someone else bought it and was supposed to come and get it. She sold the house about 5 years ago and the lift is still there! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbinator Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Everyone has a good reason for the 2 or 4 post. Id have to agree the 2 post sure makes it easy to work on the wheels and other as well. I bought a Challenger 9000 lb 4 poster. I bought the 4 poster mostly for my PERCEIVED better safety. Id surmise the two poster when loaded right is safe. My heart and gut over rides my brain a nd says get a 4 poster. I got 4500 lb concrete about 8” thick. I did anchor my 4 poster. I got the sliding jack, but I wish Id purchased two. Oh, the 4 poster makes you do goofy positioning of the car when you replace the ball joints. If I had to do it over id still get the 4 poster. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model56s Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 I bought an Atlas 8,000 lb 4-post lift in May of 2021. The only two complaints I have are that 1) the pulley shafts are not drilled for a zirk and grease channels and must be removed for greasing and 2) the Atlas plastic guide blocks have too much play in them for my comfort. Most lifts have 2 plastic “guide blocks” that attach to each end of the crossmember (gantry), 8 total, and serve to guide them snugly during travel within the respective upright channel. I ordered a replacement set from Atlas under their tech support advisement (over $250 with shipping) because I noticed this year that I could get the lift to sway as much as an inch with a car on it. When I removed the old guide blocks, their measurements were the same as the new ones, indicating no wear. The lift has the same give with the new ones. The Atlas hydraulic pump, motor, hose and ram have been reliable and are almost leak-free - just an occasional drop of hydraulic oil at the junction of the supply hose fitting and the ram cylinder. The steel uprights, runways and crossmembers are powder coated and appear to be of sufficient quality steel with good welds. I didn’t anchor the lift since it was shipped with casters for each corner and I can move it between bays with very little trouble. Today’s price for the same lift is about $3800 vs $2600 I paid in May ‘21. Overall - it’s an OK lift. With no guide block play and drilled pulley shafts, it would be a great lift. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 If you only have one......the 4 post is probably the best choice. (1) it does not need to be bolted down so if you want to move it to a different bay it can be done easier than a 2 post. (2) I have an older 2 post and i must drive in further than needed so the front arms will swing past the front tires, then back up after the arms are in place for proper weight distribution, this has been addressed on most newer 2 post. (3) the second part of putting a car on a 2 post is you must locate and move the arms to the proper lift points.... you just drive on the 4 post and you are done. (4) the post on a 2 post can interfere with opening the doors on your vehicle.... sometime you must squeeze into the car because the car door will hit the post. One additional consideration is the footprint of the lift.. if you have a normal 2 car garage, either lift may greatly reduce the space in the other bay. I purchased my lift before starting construction and chose to increase the size of the bays because of the lift footprint. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 (5) A 4-post lift makes the most sense when storing two cars in one bay is an objective. (6) I found that purchasing the accessory sliding axle jack mitigates most of the disadvantages of the 4-post vs. 2-post with regard to access. I can conveniently (and safely) raise one axle at a time with the car on the lift, which makes tire changes, brake jobs and suspension work much easier. I have really had no insurmountable undercar access issues with my 4-post Direct Lift. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadGoat Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 I had the same questions when I built my shop as to if I went with a four post or two post so I did both. The four post's are difficult at best for me being 6',2" as I have a tendency to hit my head on rails and the sliding jack working under them. So my 9000-four post is generally only used for storing two cars in one spot, (sometimes three, one full size on top and two MG Midgets down below) the 10,000-two post is the one that gets a lot of use as my neighbor's and friends found out that I put them in and it amazed me how they thought it was a "free" garage. kind of like a neighborhood garden... The two post is also used for storing one on top and one down below in the winter time when I am working on another project in the main area. When I built the shop the code enforcement said that I could not build the 1400 sqf shop of my dreams, and that all I could build was 900 sqf. so it can be a little tight at times however it does work. I poured the concrete at 6" in only the area that I knew I was going to install the two post even though the code states 4" as sufficient. Both my lifts cost me about what one new four post would as I found a local Bend Pak distributor/inspector that sold me both of them when he took them on trade for the new replacements. They were only 4 years old when I bought them and he had serviced them every year with the state inspections. It is highly recommended that you go with the largest weight capacity that you can afford as it is true they hold up better. If you purchase a four post do not forget the drip pans and the sliding jack as a "package" because they make a difference. when I store two on my two post I have a tarp that I put under the upper car with magnets that catches all the leaks, as every one knows Pontiacs leaks like clock work. so with all that if you do have room for both it can make your life much easier and no more floor creepers a laying on your back. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Szymkowski Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 I love my Bendpak. Top quality throughout, not a problem with it in 4 years. 4 post narrow doe consumer garages 9000 lb unit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 Great thread....I'm thinking about a 4 post as well....Bendpak, Atlas, Direct lift, are there other brands out there that would be recommended as well ? Considering price, I'm guessing that they are all comparably priced with each other. Thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewOldWood Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 I was originally looking for a standard 8000# lift but ended up with this one because it's what they had in stock at the time. It's 9000# but is also 6" wider than the 8000# lifts. After using it a while I am glad I have the extra width. https://liftsuperstore.com/product/quatro-stacker-heavy-duty-9000-lb-4t/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 I chose my Direct Lift because it was ALI certified and had local support. I paid for installation/setup and haven't regretted it. So far, I've had no cause to test the dealer support... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagefinds Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Has anyone used the cement that has fiberglass fibers in it? I'm getting ready to pour a shop floor and have that option that is supposed to be better support for a lift. One concern is hairs sticking out of the cement that get broken off,then go airborn as you sweep or move around. I inhaled enough welding smoke,vaporized acidic solder flux,asbestos and anything the refinery put out in the plumbing and pipefitting trade for 50 plus years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I've not heard of that. I wouldn't want to be wallowing around in it setting the hoist blocks if there are indeed loose fibers on top. That would be like working in insulation all the time. Yuck. Just epoxy it, whether it's fancy concrete or just the normal concrete. Epoxy coated floor is so much more user friendly than bare concrete you won't believe the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I have poured more concrete in my life than I care to think about. Nothing wrong with fibre in concrete. I think statistically its just as strong as putting welded wire in. Rebar serves another purpose. Depends on the mix and the finish. I have never seen it with the 'hairs' exposed so badly to be a concern. 4" is fine for just about any slab, I would put in a spread footer 6" deep, maybe 4'x4' in the area where the lift will be. IF at all possible I would make a template of the base mounting and install some anchor bolts during the pour, but I think you can drill and epoxy set something after the fact easier. For a garage with car parking you dont really need a lot if any rebar. The fibre should be enough. You do want to make sure you have one or two control joints cut in to tell the concrete where it will want to break. I tell people that I can guarantee 2 things about concrete. It will get hard, and it will crack. That being said my shop is 30 x 40 with fibre mesh only. The finisher (against my better judgement) did not put any control or expansion joints in. 5+ years on not a single crack. Same with my house garage that is 32 x 40. No rebar in either one. You want to make sure the base is compacted and put in correctly, that will help the finished concrete more than anything else.\ We specialized in building firehouses, in the many I built we would always pour 6" in the engine bay with a plethora of rebar and wire. Then again they had 80,000k lb trucks sitting in them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 You can buy moveable 4 post lifts with extra height........even if you don't have the head room for a car on top of it at 7 feet off the floor......you can use it as a storage platform as well........... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) I have the fiber-reinforced concrete in my pole barn. Seems fine; mine is 5 inches thick and no issue with my 4-post lift. I do not have it bolted to the floor, as it has wheels that allow me to move it if I want to. I marked the floor when it was originally set ~3 years ago and it hasn't moved... Also, I had control joints cut and have had no cracks since it was poured in 2010. There are a few areas where fibers are near the surface, but aside from a little surface texture, there has been no problem. Edited January 22 by EmTee (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Bollman Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Since I'm think of having another garage built I have been watching for ideas. One comment from my old place on concrete. When the basement floor of my old place was powered I asked the mason if it didn't need seams he said no, it had numerous cracks after a few years. My shop at the old place without asking a different mason he put seams every 12' front to back by pressing in this plastic piece that once they were done smoothing was completely invisible. After a few years a very fine straight line was visible every 12' hardly noticeable and no cracks. The other thing that the shop mason suggested and did was put a piece of angle iron with some holes that he put flat head bolts in and pushed into the concrete at the door openings. Made for a clean edge and prevented any chipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Peck Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I am getting very leery of living without a safe and healthy space to work on cars. One possible concept is a sump that the garage floor drains into. This would allow gentle washing of the floor into the sump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Check with your jurisdiction. In a lot of places a floor drain in a residential garage is forbidden. If allowed it may need an oil separator (expensive). I thought about putting a drain in both of my garages when I built them, but after many years have never really had a need for one. It sounds like a good idea but most likely not worth the effort. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Just pour a nice pitch in your garage....no need for a floor drain. I did it when I built my place........works great. I used a 4 inch pitch over 30 feet........probably too much for a commercial application, but it sure is easy to keep the floor clean, and the melted snow runs out the door with no effort. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 You dont need a lot of pitch for water to run out. The floor is level in my shop, I have one bay with an overhead door for a vehicle. That bay I put a slight pitch in the floor. Looking and walking across it is not noticeable at all but any liquid at that point drains out easily. Much easier than the trouble and expense of a drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, edinmass said: Just pour a nice pitch in your garage....no need for a floor drain. Ugh, that's what I asked for when I had the garage attached to the house built in 2010. What I got was essentially dead-level, with a couple of shallow low spots that collect water from melting snow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 The other thing nice about a decent pitch on your garage floor.......in the event of a fire, you can let gravity roll the car out to a safe spot. My driveway was actually designed to let the cars roll out of the garage and then come to a stop without any damage. I have had several friends have garage fires over the years......my three collector cars in my home garage can all come out by releasing the E brake. My neighbors are familiar with the set up........so in the event of an emergency the cars can all be out of the garage in less than 30 seconds without starting an engine. Yes........overly anal and overkill, but I sleep better at night. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 8 minutes ago, edinmass said: The other thing nice about a decent pitch on your garage floor.......in the event of a fire, you can let gravity roll the car out to a safe spot. My driveway was actually designed to let the cars roll out of the garage and then come to a stop without any damage. I have had several friends have garage fires over the years......my three collector cars in my home garage can all come out by releasing the E brake. My neighbors are familiar with the set up........so in the event of an emergency the cars can all be out of the garage in less than 30 seconds without starting an engine. Yes........overly anal and overkill, but I sleep better at night. That's farking brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2018-06-20_04-30-41 by Kerry Grubb, on Flickr 2018-06-20_04-30-17 by Kerry Grubb, on Flickr I wouldnt wish this disaster on anyone. But this was fully engulfed in less than 5 minutes. No way I was running in to save a car! If fire is a big concern keep plenty of extinguishers around and explore the possibilities of a sprinkle system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: That's farking brilliant. Guilty as charged! 😎 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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