Rare and desirable carburetors discussion

[carbking]

Started this thread because a similar thread (the "holy grail" thread) piqued my interest. What would be your list? As these lists would be personal, there are NO wrong answers. I am curious to see other response. Note that I am in the carburetor business, and my list are carbs that all I would need to do to sell one is place it for sale. Before I had finished listing, the phone would be ringing off the table. Price on several of these would run into 5 figures. All of them would be 4 figures.

 

My list of top 20 rare and desirable carburetors:

 

Stromberg UU-3 (Duesenberg race only)

Carter 3636s (trap door NASCAR Pontiac

Rochester 7029273 (1969 RA IV Pontiac)

Rochester 7041273 (1971 Pontiac 455 HO)

Stromberg EE-3 1 3/8 (Duesenberg)

Stromberg EE-3 1 5/16 (Packard 12)

Stewart Model 25 for the 1928 Victory 6

Detroit Lubricator dual for Packard 734

Carter 3593s (NASCAR Chevrolet)

Rochester 7040256 (Olds W-30)

Holley R-1536 and R-1599 (supercharged Ford / T-Bird)

Rochester 7010600 (Pontiac 2x4)

Carter 407s, 408s, 488s (Graham)(488s is so highly sought after, I reproduced 2 of them)

Autolite inline 4-barrel (Ford racing)

Stromberg EX-32 1 3/8 (supercharged Auburn)

Zenith brass 105D (Stutz)

Riley (aftermarket sidedraft)

 

Jon

[Layden B]

Rayfield D-5 in aluminum

Couple of applications shown.

[TTR]

I would think any or at least most 4 barrel Webers qualify as rare and desirable, not to mention likely quite valuable.

Edited August 10, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[Lee H]

The Pogue 200 MPG carburetor that was suppressed by the oil companies🤫

[K8096]

How about the Stromberg UUR2 and Stromberg EE 22.   

[1937hd45]

I made all the "Big Bucks" selling MILLER and Winfield carburetors. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, K8096 said:

How about the Stromberg UUR2 and Stromberg EE 22.   

Always felt bad for the guy that needed the UUR2 for a White truck.

Edited August 10, 2023 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

And you've not even touched on the brass era cars.

Terry

[TAKerry]

Surely not in that class, but the carb for my Trans Am is a bit hard to find. 1979 Q jet 4 speed. I was lucky to find one after an exhaustive search and the guy only wanted $700! And it was clapped out. This was April 2020 and I had no idea what covid had in store and figured with the uncertainty not a good idea to spend that kind of money on a car part. I let it sit for a week then changed my mind. By the time I got back to him it was sold.  Forward a year or so of continued looking, just so happened to ask a parts supplier that I knew of that I met at Carlisle a few years earlier. He said he would get back to me. A week later, figuring another lost search he called me and said 'sure I have one, $125.' I was at his place the next afternoon. The numbers on this particular carb are similar to the auto's which are much easier to find and I figured that was what he had. But lo and behold it was the right part!! My holy grail for the restoration!!

 

Just a few hours ago I saw an add for a GTO carb, it may have been for a 455, the price was over $6,000.!

[carbking]

Love the comments, keep them coming!

 

Layden - Several of the carburetor companies would do aluminum castings at extra cost; it was special order, but catalogues gave the process.

 

TTR - I purposely omitted carbs not made in the U.S.A. from my list; I know nothing about 4 barrel Webers, but would guess you are right.

 

Lee - the Pogue is scarce but not appreciably desirable (no one can make it work  ). One sat on ebay for a couple of months at $2500. and never sold. The other "high mileage" carburetor (Fish) is neither rare nor desirable.

 

K8096 - both the Stromberg UUR-2 (passenger) and the EE-22 could easily be on the list; as could the E-2, EX-2, EE-25, and AA-25.

 

1937hd45 - you have had MUCH better luck with the rotarys than have I. Rare, but difficult to sell. And the UUR-2 for the White truck is not rare. If you need one, check the military surplus suppliers. And before anyone asks where, they are exceptionally expensive to convert for passenger use!

 

Terry B - There are probably a few brass era carbs that would fit the list. However, I find that virtually all brass era owners have at least 2 spares. Most are rare, but not overly desirable. In a different lifetime, well 25 years ago, I reproduced a Zenith O4D for the early V-8 Chevrolet; which was, and is, rare and desirable.

 

TAKerry - there are dozens of muscle car carburetors that could easily make the list.

 

Jon

[Layden B]

Zenith O4D as has been said came on V-8 Chevrolet but racers put them on DOHC Frontenac heads on Model T Ford blocks.

[MochetVelo]

My 1911 Renault AX was missing it's original carburetor (as many are). It's a strange Renault-made brass carb that's about 18 inches tall. I put up an internet wanted ad in PreWarCar.com and immediately got a response from France. I was half certain it was a scammer since he had just what I wanted, and this is a rare one. I sent the payment anyway and hoped for the best. Sure enough, it arrived and fits perfectly.

 

Phil

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by MochetVelo (see edit history)

[Guest]

I'm happy with my new Winfield, 20's barrel that can be run up down or side

 

[Stude Light]

I will have to say that the Penberthy Ball and Ball DV-14 carburetor on my 1921 Oldsmobile with the Northway 209 V8 is one of the best early carburetors I have driven with. It is what is called a two-stage carburetor.

Basically a two “barrel” design that pulls air through two venturis from the single port on the right that contains the choke but has another set of venturis with air ports on the bottom of the carb that open at full throttle.
 

The carb was easy to set up and runs quite well through all ranges but provides a significant boost of power at wide open throttle along with a throaty sound like a four barrel when the secondaries open. It uses air metering for the idle jet which is controlled by the large screw ports on top that act on very light springs and valves. It also has a decent accelerator pump design.

 

I would say rather advanced for the time (1916-1921).

Edited August 11, 2023 by Stude Light (see edit history)

[Hans1]

6 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I made all the "Big Bucks" selling MILLER and Winfield carburetors. 

 

What do they look like?  any pictures for us without experience ?

 

6 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

 

 

 

 

 

Always felt bad for the guy that needed the UUR2 for a White truck.

w

[Layden B]

New Miller carburetor

[30DodgePanel]

13 hours ago, carbking said:

Terry B - There are probably a few brass era carbs that would fit the list. However, I find that virtually all brass era owners have at least 2 spares. Most are rare, but not overly desirable. In a different lifetime, well 25 years ago, I reproduced a Zenith O4D for the early V-8 Chevrolet; which was, and is, rare and desirable.

 

Jon

 

Just playing the devils advocate here, not trying to stir up anything...

I understand you have worded it rare and desirable but it has me curious what the definition for desirable is...

I have zero experience with any of the brass era cars, but it seems to me that anyone who owns a brass era carb would see some of their carbs as both rare and desirable. 

So by desirable the definition would be what, built for higher speeds or is it a monetary thing? 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Hans1 said:

 

Model T era Winfield carbs.  Left is your common updraft model "v" (vertical), in the middle are your much more elusive "h" (horizontal) and model "n" that could be configured as an up, down, or side draft.  Later came the "m" which is much more common but due to it's potmetal build rare to find unbroken.  Then the well known S and SR.  Basic Winfield carb info.  Oh and if anyone has a mate to the 180 airhorn pictured . . .

Your basic Miller Master carb, small and large.

[Hans1]

Very interesting to see the pictures you gentleman provide.

Things I virtually never see, but teach about the progression of the development of cars and parts.

Thank you

Hans

[carbking]

5 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

 

Just playing the devils advocate here, not trying to stir up anything...

I understand you have worded it rare and desirable but it has me curious what the definition for desirable is...

I have zero experience with any of the brass era cars, but it seems to me that anyone who owns a brass era carb would see some of their carbs as both rare and desirable. 

So by desirable the definition would be what, built for higher speeds or is it a monetary thing? 

I guess, in my case, it would be monetary.

 

If it rare, but no one wants it???? Being in the business, I have way too much dead inventory that was purchased in large lots (cleaned out several salvage yards, taking every carburetor they had).

 

The carbs on my initial list would, if advertised, ALL sell within a week (many the same day).

 

Brass carbs are a HARD SELL (no, I don't have any Flechters). I do sell an occasional Schebler D, or a Stromberg OF (an OF core easily brings more than a Miller or a Winfield core). Like I posted earlier, it seems that every brass car owner has at least 2 spares already.

 

There are probably some really rare brass carbs, but maybe only one person is looking for it, and you have to find that person.

 

The only brass carbs that sell well are for tractors. Bennett would have been on my list if I had included tractors.

 

Other brass carbs that sell, although not really well, are Strombergs (L's, M's, and O's) to replace some of the really rare stuff that doesn't work, and the owner wants to at least drive in a parade; and still wants a brass carb under the hood. The best selling O.E. brass carb was the Stewart used on the Dodge Victory 6. The other carb for that model was a diecast Stromberg.

 

Like I said in my first post, there are no wrong answers; I have really enjoyed reading the responses.

 

And Layden, that is a nice Miller.

 

Jon

Edited August 11, 2023 by carbking (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

Def agree, regardless of the part, or vehicle rare does not equal value. Desirability equals value.

[Lee H]

43 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

Def agree, regardless of the part, or vehicle rare does not equal value. Desirability equals value.

Also agree, otherwise, finding a Variable Venturi carb that will go more than 500 miles between repairs would be worth a million bucks!

Edited August 11, 2023 by Lee H (see edit history)

[Layden B]

Maybe someone can put a name on this big 2+" variable venturi carb. I have always assumed it to be experimental aircraft as the venturi ( made of 2 counter rotating cylinders) seems to be operated by the difference in pressure across the throttle butterfly.

[lump]

Rochester Quadrajet, number 7040205, for manual shift 1970 Chevrolet big block Chevelle, Nova, Camaro, or full-size Chevy passenger car. 

[Stude Light]

9 hours ago, carbking said:

I guess, in my case, it would be monetary.

 

Ahhh. I was going for rare and excellent functionality (functionality being the important trait for me) so, nix the Ball and Ball.

 

If monetary then I would go for the entire tri-power setup for a 1966 GTO with the mechanical linkage to the secondaries in lieu of the vacuum pots. I had one installed on my 1967 400 cu in GTO when I was in high school.

[John E. Guitar]

This is a Krebs carburettor from 1913. I think it was the world's first twin barrel caburettor. They were fitted to the "Sport" version of the 20CV Panhard et Levassor.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by John E. Guitar (see edit history)

[carbking]

That Krebs IS interesting, thanks for the picture.

 

Jon.

[30DodgePanel]

19 hours ago, carbking said:

I guess, in my case, it would be monetary.

 

If it rare, but no one wants it???? Being in the business, I have way too much dead inventory that was purchased in large lots (cleaned out several salvage yards, taking every carburetor they had).

 

The carbs on my initial list would, if advertised, ALL sell within a week (many the same day).

 

Brass carbs are a HARD SELL (no, I don't have any Flechters). I do sell an occasional Schebler D, or a Stromberg OF (an OF core easily brings more than a Miller or a Winfield core). Like I posted earlier, it seems that every brass car owner has at least 2 spares already.

 

There are probably some really rare brass carbs, but maybe only one person is looking for it, and you have to find that person.

 

The only brass carbs that sell well are for tractors. Bennett would have been on my list if I had included tractors.

 

Other brass carbs that sell, although not really well, are Strombergs (L's, M's, and O's) to replace some of the really rare stuff that doesn't work, and the owner wants to at least drive in a parade; and still wants a brass carb under the hood. The best selling O.E. brass carb was the Stewart used on the Dodge Victory 6. The other carb for that model was a diecast Stromberg.

 

Like I said in my first post, there are no wrong answers; I have really enjoyed reading the responses.

 

 

Jon

 

Thanks for your clarification, Jon. It helps a novice like myself who enjoys hunting and picking rare parts know what to look for in hopes that some end up back on the road. 

 

Would you have added the U2 Stromberg if it wasn't godforsaken potmetal but made of brass instead? Or any other pot metal carbs for that matter (IF they were made of brass).

 

Thanks again

Dave

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[metalbender]

the beauty of the five ball kingston is my favorite

[Layden B]

Metalbender

 

Am pretty confident that the Kingston 10 ball is not double beautiful, just complex.

[carbking]

The Ford folks probably won't believe it, but the "10 ball" (it is a tractor carb) will sell for more than twice the Ford "5 ball".

 

The "5 ball"  is a variety of the Model E. There are 5 different varieties: E, E-1, E-2, E-3, and E-4. It would be special order, but one could acquire one of these (memory says the E-2) in a 5 inch size! The types vary as to the configuration of the flange, air intake, etc. All have the 5 balls, but there are several different sizes of the balls, depending on the size of the carburetor.

 

The "10- ball" is the Model E Dual.

 

Dave - the Stromberg U-2 is not rare (118 different applications), or it would not be if it were not zinc alloy. Fortunately, the castings have been reproduced in aluminum. I personally consider the zinc alloy U-2's as "donor" carbs for floats, shafts, jets, etc. for finishing the new casting; never as being useable as is. There is also a cast iron version of the U-2 which is rare.

 

Jon

Edited August 12, 2023 by carbking (see edit history)

[Hemi Joel]

How about the Autolite inline 4 barrel?

Edited August 12, 2023 by Hemi Joel (see edit history)

[joelj]

I baught baught this 2x4 bbl setup for my 64 Riviera. Never did get around to installing it. KW code 425 nailhead has been running fine with it's single afb and I guess I hate to mess with it. 

[tcslr]

IMHO, the most desirable carburetor … the one that works for my cars. 
 

sorry.

 

id like to hear from carbking and others about the carbs used on dual-fuel tractors. That started on gasoline and switched to kerosene. 
 

[mechanician]

 

[edinmass]

On 8/10/2023 at 12:58 PM, carbking said:

Started this thread because a similar thread (the "holy grail" thread) piqued my interest. What would be your list? As these lists would be personal, there are NO wrong answers. I am curious to see other response. Note that I am in the carburetor business, and my list are carbs that all I would need to do to sell one is place it for sale. Before I had finished listing, the phone would be ringing off the table. Price on several of these would run into 5 figures. All of them would be 4 figures.

 

My list of top 20 rare and desirable carburetors:

 

Stromberg UU-3 (Duesenberg race only)

Carter 3636s (trap door NASCAR Pontiac

Rochester 7029273 (1969 RA IV Pontiac)

Rochester 7041273 (1971 Pontiac 455 HO)

Stromberg EE-3 1 3/8 (Duesenberg)

Stromberg EE-3 1 5/16 (Packard 12)

Stewart Model 25 for the 1928 Victory 6

Detroit Lubricator dual for Packard 734

Carter 3593s (NASCAR Chevrolet)

Rochester 7040256 (Olds W-30)

Holley R-1536 and R-1599 (supercharged Ford / T-Bird)

Rochester 7010600 (Pontiac 2x4)

Carter 407s, 408s, 488s (Graham)(488s is so highly sought after, I reproduced 2 of them)

Autolite inline 4-barrel (Ford racing)

Stromberg EX-32 1 3/8 (supercharged Auburn)

Zenith brass 105D (Stutz)

Riley (aftermarket sidedraft)

 

Jon

I can only comment on a few of the above. Having spent my life shouting from the top of my lungs…..the only correct carburetor is an identical direct factory replacement ……….these are the following I consider difficult to impossible.

 

 

UU-3 have been reproduced and I have actually played around with one………you too can have a new one in hand for 25k last I knew. Hurry…….the project is over after a top collector decided to do the project.

 

Stromberg EE-3 1 3/8- Model J item. How rare? Three or four are known to exist after a few of us looking at almost all known J’s. Maybe one or two more possibly out there on a car that escaped us. I actually did a comparison of the 1 3/8 to the 1 5/16 and can say there was a difference between the two…..only slightly and at the upper end of the spectrum. Of the few known, I have had two of them through my hands. As to value……..impossible to reproduce one unless you plan to invest 100k plus. I will take two or three right now if you have them. I think 20-30k is the top of the market for one. And there are fakes out there……..be careful!

 

Stromberg EE-3 1 5/16…….Packard 12. I don’t consider them rare, just expensive. True value? I will sell you one for 3500 dollars. Or two or three if you like. Seems most guys are too cheap to pay anything more than 1500. So they drive around with the wrong carb on their car.

 

Stromberg UUR-2 for a DV-32 Stutz…………impossible to find. I sold one back in the 90’s for five thousand. Bought it back for twice that twenty five years later. Probably only five known correct units survive. 
 

Stromberg EX-32 1 3/8 Supercharged Auburn. Very rare, most owners won’t throw down for a correct unit. Most get damaged by tractor mechanics snapping off the casting. I have seen three or four for sale in the last thirty years. As to value today…….5-7k if you have a guy who really wants one. The purchaser is rarer than the carb in my opinion.

 

My comments only apply to Stromberg, as that I all I have ever really made a pursuit of.

 

The strange Duesenberg supercharged unit with a funky name that escapes me………probably would sell for 25k if you can get your hands on one. Less than five are known, only one is not on a car. Can somebody please post the name?

 

[edinmass]

Converting a White UUR-2 truck carb to a correct application for a Pierce, Stude, or Type 57 is possible if you have a bunch of spare available parts with time and knowledge. I’m thinking three guys on the planet can do it……..and two of them won’t do it now due to time/cost/age. Figure a NOS donor carb and 5k to get it done right………..and 12-18 months. There are a handful of castings for the UUR-2 and they look the same to an untrained eye. Most people think they know what they are doing……..and are wrong. Probably 2/3 of the cars driving around with a UUR-2 are incorrectly set up and don’t run, idle, or start correctly. Ok, to be fair……it’s probably 90 percent. With good correct castings figure 5k to make it right for a Pebble application. 

[30DodgePanel]

What's this one on the Duesenberg Sprint car at the Revinstitute, a Winfield?

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

What's this one on the Duesenberg Sprint car at the Revinstitute, a Winfield?

 

 

Yup, model N.  Same carb as I just found.  The float bolts on so it can be run in a different configuration.

[30DodgePanel]

Amazing. 

Carbs are so interesting, I see how someone (like Jon and others) could be challenged daily if in that line of business. Very interesting history and the list is endless.

 

"Honey! Remember all those stinky carb books I bought in the last year that you hate so much? I'm gonna need to buy some more!!!!"

 

 

[carbking]

Ed - are you thinking of the Juhasz?

 

I think, by adding values, you also added to my definition of "dsirable"; thanks.

 

I have to mildly disagree on the best carb is always the original. If you are dealing with quality products like Stromberg, in most cases totally agree. However, there was that DDR-3 Duesenberg carb.

 

But if you look at some of the lower priced carburetors; there are often better options. How would you compare a Kingston L4 (not rare, but original) to a Stromberg OF?

 

And today, there are some zinc alloy carbs that have plain disintegrated over time; and were used on cars that will not sell for enough to justify reproduction of the carburetor. In cases such as these, replacements can be a good idea.

 

Jon