Dietrich Individual Customs - 32/33/34

[edinmass]

4 hours ago, Cadillac Fan said:

1994 Packard Experience, CCCA Museum/ Gilmore Car Museum

 

photo: Richard Spiegelman, flikr

 

 

 

 

New restoration a few years ago and displayed at Pebble............now a bronze/brown color.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

38 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Perhaps my favorite Packard of them all. Even though it is “only” a straight eight.

I will agree with you. Plus, being an eight, I think I'd feel a lot more comfortable about driving it the way I like driving. A mishap in a 12 could cause bankruptcy in my household.

[West Peterson]

32 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

New restoration a few years ago and displayed at Pebble............not a bronze/brown color.

 

 

 

 

 

I've not seen it in person, and I know you have, but it sure looks like khaki to me. I LOVE it. A good friend owned this car for many years. He introduced me to the woman I married 36 years ago. He died last February.

 

The car had the nickname "Dozen" when it was owned by a fellow in the northeast many, many years ago.

 

[alsancle]

Restoration and colors were fantastic.   First in class against very very tough competition at Pebble.

[West Peterson]

Changes colors depending on who took the photo and in what light. Still looks somewhat khaki to me, tho.

[edinmass]

 

The color shifts with the light.............Personally I'm a side mount guy.......I would have done more contrast with the top material. Current owner is a friend, and he only has great stuff. 

[Cadillac Fan]

1 hour ago, packard12man said:

34 Dietrich Stationary Coupe (1 or 4 or maybe 5 survivors)- photos taken in the mid 60's by Tom Kirn.   Found in a field near Mohawk New York - price was $1,600.  Just tracked recently that the car was sold new by the Packard Dealer - Fonda Motors in Syracuse New York.  The car is fully restored and is used and driven extensively by the owner  When the car was new it was delivered with a trunk instead of a rumble seat.  I guess if you had $6,500 in 1934 Packard would build you exactly what you wanted.  Even in this derelict condition the lines of the car are just stunning.  

 

[Walt G]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

..Personally I'm a side mount guy

For me it depends upon the body style. All big 4 door sedans, ( the ones with rear quarter windows next to the rear seat area) especially if 7 passenger or limousines look better with the side mounted spare tires plus covers .  Most all other body types can be pleasing to see either way. Some town cars like the faux wicker painted  RR Newport town cars can look really great with a rear mounted spare. I had a custom bodied `1931 Franklin with a Derham body that I restored and owned for nearly 50 years. Had a rear mounted spare and would have looked awkward with side mounts , would have made the 132 inch wheelbase car look stubby.

So much depends upon wheel size as well - and if it is disc, wire, wood - larger hub, short spoked on the wood wheel , diameter ( 20 inch, 16 inch ??) . Biggest factor is color - "painted fenders" ( ie not painted black but body color)  I do not judge cars anymore and did not like to at all ever, as I am very critical that the period colors be used - not circus wagon colors, P.T. Barnum was not an artist and did not design/style cars. I used to get car owners upset because if I judged a car , authenticity and historic value to appear when built used to influence my judgement . 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Walt G (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

I can see the auction catalog now……….restored from an honest solid used car. Never abused going down the road. Car has a real presence………..blah,blah, blah………..none better.

[Gunsmoke]

This thread is so interesting, educational, and humorous at times and the photos are wonderful, I'm almost turning into a Packard Fan. Such a welcome relief from some of the provocative nonsense of many recent postings. I could read this type of stuff all day. 

[Cadillac Fan]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 

I can see the auction catalog now……….restored from an honest solid used car. Never abused going down the road. Car has a real presence………..blah,blah, blah………..none better.

Looks pretty good to me.  You would sell your wife to find one in this condition today.  

[alsancle]

I will contribute one.

[Cadillac Fan]

Is there a definitive total number made?

[packard12man]

5 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said:

Is there a definitive total number made?

Are you referring to a specific body style from a specific year or all inclusive. 

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, Cadillac Fan said:

Looks pretty good to me.  You would sell your wife to find one in this condition today.  

Don't have a wife……as far as wanting it, I have a smart and funny answer, but it’s inappropriate to post here. Take away the stunning good looks, perfect lines, and fantastic chassis………It’s just another car. And since they tip the scales in the middle seven figures……….we don’t need to concern ourselves with owning one till we hit the lotto.

[alsancle]

[Cadillac Fan]

11 minutes ago, packard12man said:

Are you referring to a specific body style from a specific year or all inclusive. 

All inclusive.  1932-34, 8 and 12s.  

Edited January 10, 2023 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

AJ:

Maybe more like this?

[Tph479]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

This is probably my most favorite Packard design. I know that it it a sedan and by default a sedan can’t be one’s favorite car in the collecting world but this car breaks all of the rules. This car has everything going for it, engine, chassis, custom body, design lines, interior … it just checks all of the boxes with big x’s. I remember seeing the car of the dome at a show, maybe it was the centennial, and was just blown away seeing the car in person.
 

The rear slope of this car is very similar to the 1932 900 and 1933 1001 coupe sedan that was penned by Werner Gubitz, who previously worked for Dietrich. I have always wondered if there is any Gubitz connection in this body, or vice versa with Dietrich with the 900 design.

 

Cool thread. Dietrich’s rock.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Tph479 (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

i agree also on the great style......and no quarter windows always looks great......some of the very valuable 2 and 4 door convertible big models almost look like a sedan with the roof cut off,when the top is down 

[Tph479]

Some Dietrich photos from the centennial by yours truly. The coupe was Chicago owned at that time. Now in San Francisco.

[John Bloom]

10 minutes ago, Tph479 said:

Some Dietrich photos from the centennial by yours truly. The coupe was Chicago owned at that time. Now in San Francisco.

 

 

 

That coupe................  A car to make others wilt when it pulls up.....

 

 

[edinmass]

The San Francisco coupe has endured a color change since the Packard show. I don’t think it’s been seen publicly and no photos in the new scheme have leaked out. You know what your parents taught you………it applies to the new paint job. In my humble opinion. Certainly my favorite collection on the globe. Followed closely by Maine, and Petaluma.

Edited January 10, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Its interesting having experienced the split windshield Dietrich Individual Customs……….slowly over time, my preference for performance has edged out fantastic styling in my world of car joy. I would have never predicted that ten or twenty years ago. Dump a split window on a Model J chassis……….and true perfection will be achieved. Now we just need someone who wants to dump 8 mil into the project to see it come to fruition. Any takers?

[edinmass]

The 1931 Flat Windshield Individual Customs Dietrich’s are also like many of us here………exceptionally well done and handsome. Unfortunately only three were built.  Nothing better than a “poor man’s” Dietrich Custom to fill the void. Two of the three current caretakers are reading this thread……….I won’t “out them”. One is a nice guy from the mid west, another is one of my best buddies.

[Tph479]

9 hours ago, Cadillac Fan said:

1994 Packard Experience, CCCA Museum/ Gilmore Car Museum

 

photo: Richard Spiegelman, flikr

 

 

 

The blue 32 904 Victoria in the background in the 3rd picture used to be owned by a one of my old car buddies who is now deceased. Car was top notch when he owned it and it took a bunch of awards in the late eighties/ early nineties at all of the top shows. He used to occasionally bring it up to the local cruise in at the hot dog stand and it would be surrounded by hot rods and muscle cars. His wife let me sit in it when I was a teenager and the hood seemed a mile long from behind the windshield.

She also let me go for a ride in his 68 barracuda bo29 from the same hot dog stand to the trailer. It was by far the loudest and most exhilarating car I was ever in. Going through the crowd was like Moses spreading the sea with everyone covering their ears. It was loud and it rumbled.

[edinmass]

There are no superlatives that can describe a well sorted Individual Custom Dietrich Twelve from 1934. Having been fortunate enough to drive some of the absolute worlds best pre war cars………I can state definitively, that a 1934 Packard 1108 Sport Sedan is the best closed car in the world. I can think of two other similar cars……….that are a very close second. One is a Model J, the other a PII. 

[Tph479]

17 minutes ago, edinmass said:

The San Francisco coupe has endured a color change since the Packard show. I don’t think it’s been seen publicly and no photos in the new scheme have leaked out. You know what your parents taught you………it applies to the new paint job. In my humble opinion. Certainly my favorite collection on the globe. Followed closely by Maine, and Petaluma.

I seen it out  San Fran in 2018. It was still sinister black at that time. It looked fine to me, but to each their own. The curator was shocked that I knew of the car. I also pointed out their 900 coupe sedan and told him that the last time I seen it I had to help push it onto the trailer because it was out of gas and the local cruise night. I should have bid more on that one…Small world.

[Tph479]

10 minutes ago, edinmass said:

There are no superlatives that can describe a well sorted Individual Custom Dietrich Twelve from 1934. Having been fortunate enough to drive some of the absolute worlds best pre war cars………I can state definitively, that a 1934 Packard 1108 Sport Sedan is the best closed car in the world. I can think of two other similar cars……….that are a very close second. One is a Model J, the other a PII. 

Twenty grand and Newmarket sport sedan? There was a p1 Newmarket sport sedan on the Chicago Craigslist for sale a few years back.. seriously Craigslist-

[1935Packard]

The 1934 Individual Custom Dietrich Twelve cars are my ultimate of ultimates, a view shared by many a Packard fan.  In light of that, thanks to everyone for the thread.  

 

P.S. I was also wondering about the total # made, as well as the # still around.  I was fortunate to see the John Mozart collection last year and he had, what, five, just for himself?  He should really share.  

Edited January 10, 2023 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[edinmass]

5 hours ago, Tph479 said:

Twenty grand and Newmarket sport sedan? There was a p1 Newmarket sport sedan on the Chicago Craigslist for sale a few years back.. seriously Craigslist-

There are better and more refined examples of closed cars on both the J and Rolls platforms. The split windshield PII Special Newmarkets smoke the PI’s……….there is no comparison. As to the Arlington……..it’s a circus wagon in its current livery, and it has competition from other J’s as to which one is the king of closed Duesenbergs.

[edinmass]

This car was recently offered for sale at auction, and if memory serves me it sold after the sale. The open fender look of 1932 appeals to me more than the skirted fender cars. The unfortunate color was a product of the circus wagon era of the 80’s and 90’s. It was a very well,done restoration. It was owned by a good friend from the mid west. I wonder where it went…….and if we will see it in a color change?

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

I really enjoy reading the stories of the old days in the hobby. The old friends whether still around or gone. The great cars how they were then, and sometimes follow-ups of how they are now (often in spite of "no photos allowed!).

 

Thank you to all who share those wonderful tales of days long gone.

[Walt G]

Unfortunate as Ed mentions that the convertible victoria was painted all red - add in the plated wheels, mesh stone guard and you visually loose the who appearance of the styling and design. It becomes a blur with shiny fringes. Very sad  for the car and for all of us who want to see something "of the era/period"

I compare it to someone who owns a great home in the English Tudor style design that gets painted orange stucco, and all the timber framework that defines the Tudor style is painted purple , all windows ( usually casement) are changed to plastic and full panes of glass with not pattern or division. BUT as with the cars the owner makes the decision.

But with homes some villages have rules set and guidelines for laws passed to have residents follow to keep the spirit and integrity of the original design.  My village has that  and you can't "paint it your way , cause you own it" not terrible or to restrictive laws just realistic and concerned so the circus affect doesn't take place. Yes, I am aware of who made the noise , wrote the law, and established the committee  to have the Architectural Review Board created - it is the same person that just typed this. It was decades ago.

[packard12man]

13 hours ago, alsancle said:

I will contribute one.

Al, I've been patiently waiting for you to join in.  I've always enjoyed your insights and comments.   Do you happen to know where and when this photo was taken?  I understand there is a story of this car being hidden away somewhere on the east coast many years ago and would love to hear the rest of the story.  I heard rumours about the car for many years and I seen the owner when he showed the car at Meadowbrook.  I'm not the most outgoing personality and he always seemed to be chatting it up with someone so I didn't want to intrude and therefore missed my chance.  Hoping you can fill in the blanks.

 

[CD9591]

Which of the '34 Customs were better quality, the Dietrich's or the LeBaron's such as the former Fred Hussey LeBaron Phaeton ?

[arcticbuicks]

wow ! $11,000 .....what year was that listed ?

[alsancle]

3 hours ago, packard12man said:

Al, I've been patiently waiting for you to join in.  I've always enjoyed your insights and comments.   Do you happen to know where and when this photo was taken?  I understand there is a story of this car being hidden away somewhere on the east coast many years ago and would love to hear the rest of the story.  I heard rumours about the car for many years and I seen the owner when he showed the car at Meadowbrook.  I'm not the most outgoing personality and he always seemed to be chatting it up with someone so I didn't want to intrude and therefore missed my chance.  Hoping you can fill in the blanks.

 

 

 

The picture I posted was from the early 1990s.    "Doc" Clemens owned it for decades.   He was a NY City Ophthalmologist who was very private. He maintained his cars in Massachusetts and very few people got to see them.  He was an interesting man with good taste in cars.   His old Duesenberg brought 4 million at Amelia last year.    He was also very private with no children.  When he died the car when  to the current owner in Michigan.

[58L-Y8]

Since this subject has been presented and generated so much discussion, interest and enjoyment, here is perhaps the 'one that got away from Packard'.    It is the most elegantly styled sport sedan of all Classic KB model Lincolns:  The 1932 Sport Berline by Dietrich, Model 240, of which only eight were built.  Look closely at the cowl and doors, you'll see they are virtually the same as the Packard V-windshield Individual Custom Dietrich convertible sedans.  A victoria-coupe-style bustle back panel imparts more close-coupled proportions compared to the Packard convertible sedans.  Enhancing this application, the convertible-style half-doors with thin chrome window frames lending a lightness not seen even on the Car of the Dome. The flat windshield was likely selected to simply differentiate the style from those supplied to Packard.  The other two 1932 Dietrich-bodied Lincoln KB's, the 2-passenger coupe and convertible sedan were carried over from 1931 albeit both with V-windshields differing in detail from those of the V-windshield Packards.  With its metal roof, convertible-style body structure, and close-coupled proportions, Packard should have demanded to have this sport sedan among their Individual Customs.  The three small images were posted by A.J. on the 'Great Classic Sedans' topic, bear reiterating for this discussion.

[K8096]

The grey primer & polished aluminum bodied ‘32 KB Lincoln above is a repro body.   It’s on the west coast now.   

Edited January 10, 2023 by K8096 (see edit history)