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140 gear oil recommended

timecapsule

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timecapsule 2,500+ Points

timecapsule

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My recently purchased 1930 Hudson calls for straight 140 Gear oil for the differential.  I can't seem to find that stuff anywhere in Canada.  Not available in Canada through Amazon.  So I may have to use 85/140. I'm curious on any thoughts about that compromise?  

I'm not sure if the temperature specs refer to ambient or differential internal temperature.  I'm on the west coast of BC so the temperatures are pretty moderate.  I plan on using the car as a 365/daily driver not nothing more than maybe a few hour drives without stopping.  Mostly 30 minute drives. 

I've heard that many guys use the 140 because it's thicker and has a tendency to leak out less. 

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Gunsmoke 10,000+ Points

Gunsmoke

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My 1931 Chevrolet called for 600W (W does not stand for weight but is just a code) oil in steering box, transmission and differential. I bought a 5 gallon pail from ESSO about 10 years ago for $110Can at the time., referred to as a cylinder oil. I suspect it would work great in any of these cars, a good heavy cylinder oil, with the modern equivalent of about a 300 weight. The thickness helps prevent it from seeping past lightly worn bushings, seals etc. Since most cars are not cold weather driven, it should not be a problem.

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West Peterson 25,000+ Points

West Peterson

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2 minutes ago, Gunsmoke said:

My 1931 Chevrolet called for 600W (W does not stand for weight but is just a code) oil in steering box, transmission and differential. I bought a 5 gallon pail from ESSO about 10 years ago for $110Can at the time., referred to as a cylinder oil. I suspect it would work great in any of these cars, a good heavy cylinder oil, with the modern equivalent of about a 300 weight. The thickness helps prevent it from seeping past lightly worn bushings, seals etc. Since most cars are not cold weather driven, it should not be a problem.

 

Corn Head Grease for steering boxes is perfect.

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timecapsule 2,500+ Points

timecapsule

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9 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

https://www.amazon.com/Sta-Lube-SL24238-Multi-Purpose-SAE-Gallon-Fluid_Ounces/dp/B000M8IHI2/ref=sr_1_2?crid=J93PXFFEN35S&keywords=sta-lube+gl4&qid=1657725250&sprefix=sta-lube+gl4%2Caps%2C68&sr=8-2

Thanks for the link.  Yes I saw that previously but that's in the US.  Not available in Canada.  Plus it's out of stock in the US.

3 minutes ago, Gunsmoke said:

My 1931 Chevrolet called for 600W (W does not stand for weight but is just a code) oil in steering box, transmission and differential. I bought a 5 gallon pail from ESSO about 10 years ago for $110Can at the time., referred to as a cylinder oil. I suspect it would work great in any of these cars, a good heavy cylinder oil, with the modern equivalent of about a 300 weight. The thickness helps prevent it from seeping past lightly worn bushings, seals etc. Since most cars are not cold weather driven, it should not be a problem.

Thanks.  So if I walk up to the counter at Napa ( Canada) and ask for 600W cylinder oil, do you think they'll know what I'm talking about?   I'm not sure how to purchase for an oil company such as Esso.  Obviously the guy at the gas pump counter won't have a clue.

 

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Grimy 25,000+ Points

Grimy

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I agree with Corn Head Grease for steering boxes.

 

Hypoid differentials require Extreme Pressure (EP) lubricants which for pre-war cars should be GL-4 rather than the more common GL-5 because GL-4 is much more friendly to yellow-metal components.  Do I have a hypoid differential?  If your pinion enters the bottom of the "pumpkin" you have a hypoid differential.  Non-hypoid (usually pre-1929 plus a few in early 1930s) diffs have the pinion entering toward the center of the pumpkin, and usually require 600-W, perhaps with a corn head grease supplement.

Edited by Grimy (see edit history)
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timecapsule 2,500+ Points

timecapsule

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1 minute ago, Grimy said:

I agree with Corn Head Grease for steering boxes.

 

Hypoid differentials require Extreme Pressure (EP) lubricants which for pre-war cars should be GL-4 rather than the more common GL-5 because GL-4 is much more friendly to yellow-metal components.  Do I have a hypoid differential?  If your pinion enters the bottom of the "pumpkin" you have a hypoid differential.  Non-hypoid (usually pre-1929 plus a few in early 1930s) diffs have the pinion entering toward the center of the pumpkin.

Thanks for that info.  I have the back plate off the differential and I'll be heading over to my shop in a few minutes and I'll check.  So if it's Hypoid or non-Hypoid, will Corn Head Grease still perform ok for both types?

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Gunsmoke 10,000+ Points

Gunsmoke

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Back 10 years ago, I called the local Imperial Oil (ESSO/EXXON)oil company distributor here in Halifax Nova Scotia and asked in they knew of an oil product called 600W. They said they sold a product "Mobil 600W Cylinder Oil", and the 5 gallon jug I still have says product code 98K814, followed by 601260. Anyway, you might try googling that product code. BTW, the jug says "Official Lubricant of NASCAR"!  

Edited by Gunsmoke (see edit history)
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Grimy 25,000+ Points

Grimy

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1 minute ago, timecapsule said:

Thanks for that info.  I have the back plate off the differential and I'll be heading over to my shop in a few minutes and I'll check.  So if it's Hypoid or non-Hypoid, will Corn Head Grease still perform ok for both types?

On my earlier (non-hypoid) cars I use 600-W (Lubriplate SPO-299 as Larry says is good and pretty much available) with some added CHG for those with a tendency to leak.  The CHG is very sticky and I would not use more than about 10-20% of it in any early car.

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Larry Schramm 25,000+ Points

Larry Schramm

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4 minutes ago, Grimy said:

On my earlier (non-hypoid) cars I use 600-W (Lubriplate SPO-299 as Larry says is good and pretty much available) with some added CHG for those with a tendency to leak.  The CHG is very sticky and I would not use more than about 10-20% of it in any early car.

 

What does CHG stand for?

 

Acronym Definition
CHG Change
CHG Changed
CHG Charge
CHG Compressed Hydrogen Gas (fuel type)
CHG Chlorhexidine Gluconate (aka chloraprep)
CHG Centre Hospitalier de Granby (French: Granby Hospital Center; Granby, Canada)
CHG Confederación Hidrográfica del Guadiana (Spanish: Guadiana Hydrographic Confederation; Guadiana, Spain)
CHG Coyle Hospitality Group (est. 1996; New York, NY)
CHG Centre Hospitalier Général (French: general hospital)
CHG Constellation Hotel Group (Australia)
CHG Certified Hydrogeologist
CHG Compass Hotel Group (Australia)
CHG Come Holy Ghost (Catholicism)
CHG Catalytic Hydrothermal Gasification (fuel production)
CHG Critical Hydraulic Gradient
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Larry Schramm 25,000+ Points

Larry Schramm

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4 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Sorry, Larry, I thought we were discussing Corn Head Grease.

No problem.  Sometime we all get so caught up in our acronyms that we forget that many others might not be on the same wave length.

 

When I worked for General Motors the company actually had a book with all of the different acronyms used within the company.  There were the same acronyms in finance and engineering as an example that were very different things.

Edited by Larry Schramm (see edit history)
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West Peterson 25,000+ Points

West Peterson

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42 minutes ago, timecapsule said:

Oh really!!  I use that in the steering box on my 48 Chrysler.  It works great for that.  But I wasn't sure if it would be ok in a differential.

My comment was that it was perfect for steering boxes. I wasn't recommending for differential, or transmissions. 

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Dave39MD 5,000+ Points

Dave39MD

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There have been a few discussions on the Corn Head Grease (chg) in the steering box question on the VCCA site. The consensus seems to be the chg does not get hot enough in a steering box to liquefy and not channel away from the parts that need lubrication.  Most mix chg with a small amount of 600w so it is a semi liquid grease. Something like 90/10%  chg/600w.

 

Dave

Edited by Dave39MD (see edit history)
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Larry Schramm 25,000+ Points

Larry Schramm

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3 minutes ago, Dave39MD said:

There have been a few discussions on the Corn Head Grease (chg) in the steering box question on the VCCA site. The consensus seems to be the chg does not get hot enough in a steering box to liquefy and not channel away from the parts that need lubrication.  Most mix chg with a small amount of 600w so it is a semi liquid grease. Something like 90/10%  chg/600w.

 

Dave

 

Like this?

 

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/super-s-cotton-picker-spindle-grease-00?cm_vc=-10005

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Paul Dobbin 25,000+ Points

Paul Dobbin

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7 hours ago, West Peterson said:

My comment was that it was perfect for steering boxes. I wasn't recommending for differential, or transmissions. 

     I've been using it for years in my steering box.  I've used a putty knife to get it in the steering box, but recently a friend 

     told me it goes through his grease gun, so he can use it anywhere.  Anybody else do it that way?

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Grimy 25,000+ Points

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1 hour ago, Paul Dobbin said:

     I've been using it for years in my steering box.  I've used a putty knife to get it in the steering box, but recently a friend 

     told me it goes through his grease gun, so he can use it anywhere.  Anybody else do it that way?

Try a feeding syringe from the pet store.

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timecapsule 2,500+ Points

timecapsule

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11 hours ago, Grimy said:

I agree with Corn Head Grease for steering boxes.

 

Hypoid differentials require Extreme Pressure (EP) lubricants which for pre-war cars should be GL-4 rather than the more common GL-5 because GL-4 is much more friendly to yellow-metal components.  Do I have a hypoid differential?  If your pinion enters the bottom of the "pumpkin" you have a hypoid differential.  Non-hypoid (usually pre-1929 plus a few in early 1930s) diffs have the pinion entering toward the center of the pumpkin, and usually require 600-W, perhaps with a corn head grease supplement.

I checked today and my car is a non-hypoid.  Thanks for that tip

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Bloo 25,000+ Points

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On 7/13/2022 at 9:47 AM, Dave39MD said:

There have been a few discussions on the Corn Head Grease (chg) in the steering box question on the VCCA site. The consensus seems to be the chg does not get hot enough in a steering box to liquefy and not channel away from the parts that need lubrication.  Most mix chg with a small amount of 600w so it is a semi liquid grease. Something like 90/10%  chg/600w.

 

Dave

Penrite make a dedicated steering box grease for the sort of steering gears some people like to use corn head grease in. It is semi-fluid. I have been very happy with it. Restoration Supply (of California) stock it.

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MochetVelo 10,000+ Points

MochetVelo

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On 7/13/2022 at 12:47 PM, Dave39MD said:

There have been a few discussions on the Corn Head Grease (chg) in the steering box question on the VCCA site. The consensus seems to be the chg does not get hot enough in a steering box to liquefy and not channel away from the parts that need lubrication.  Most mix chg with a small amount of 600w so it is a semi liquid grease. Something like 90/10%  chg/600w.

 

Dave

Corn Head grease does not liquefy with heat, but with agitation. I made a short video showing how it works (see below). The disadvantage is that it will not drain out because in its rest state, it is too thick.

 

:

Edited by MochetVelo (see edit history)
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nat 2,500+ Points

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      It's the sulphur in hypoid oil that makes it harmful copper and it's alloys.  140W without sulphur is often labeled/numbered with an "MT" for manual transmission.

     600W and heavier cylinder oil is known as "steam cylinder oil".

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timecapsule 2,500+ Points

timecapsule

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16 hours ago, MochetVelo said:

Corn Head grease does not liquefy with heat, but with agitation. I made a short video showing how it works (see below). The disadvantage is that it will not drain out because in its rest state, it is too thick.

 

:

That's interesting, thanks for that video.  So with that in mind, I'm curious why it wouldn't be recommended (by some people)for early differentials? 

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7 hours ago, timecapsule said:

That's interesting, thanks for that video.  So with that in mind, I'm curious why it wouldn't be recommended (by some people)for early differentials? 

It should work in differentials or transmissions, as in my video. It's definitely not prone to leakage. Should you ever wish to remove it, however, you may need to scoop it out. It doesn't seem to be affected by heat or any solvents I've tried.

 

Phil

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timecapsule 2,500+ Points

timecapsule

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1 hour ago, MochetVelo said:

It should work in differentials or transmissions, as in my video. It's definitely not prone to leakage. Should you ever wish to remove it, however, you may need to scoop it out. It doesn't seem to be affected by heat or any solvents I've tried.

 

Phil

Well so far I'm pleased with the 600-W. I'm not concerned with the Pinion seal, since it is the modern style.  It did show signs of leakage when I bought the car, but no sign of leakage since I put in the 600-W.  But in this old 1930 Hudson the axle seals are just thick felt washers.  Apparently there is a place in Florida that sells new ones.  However for now, I cleaned the felts with brake cleaner over and over again.  That helped expand them a bit once they dried.  I also installed speedie-sleeves on the axle to make an even tighter seal.  I intend on pulling the rear wheels to have a look and see if the 600-W is starting to seep past the felts, as soon as the weather get a bit nicer. I've got maybe 1000 miles on it since I filled it with the 600-W.

I would think that towards the outer end of the axle where those felt seals are, that there would be very little agitation so I would think the felt seal would not have a tendency to absorb the Corn Head Grease.  As for adding it, I'd pull the inspection plate off the back anyways to help extract the 600-W, so I'd spoon in as much as possible from there.  Then I would just use a large horse syringe through the add plug hole.  Which is the way I filled the steering box on my '48 Chrysler with the Corn Head Grease. 

In case anyone is wondering, no I can't just upgrade to modern axle seals.  The felt seal sits in a U channel, so there is no way to get a modern style seal in there.  

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timecapsule 2,500+ Points

timecapsule

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2 hours ago, Oldsoul58 said:

What is corn head grease and where can one purchase it? I am located in western Mass.

Corn Head grease can be purchased from a John Deere parts supplier.  It comes in grease gun tubes, at least that's the way I bought it.  It's really not that expensive.  I think I paid about $6 a tube CAN. The steering box takes about two tubes.   It's the consistency of peanut butter.  It's used on the John Deere Corn Head harvesting machine.  I've tried you-tubing that to see exactly the reasoning behind it, but unsuccessfully.  Apparently there is an inherent leaking problem in the gear box of that machine that can't be fixed, so they designed a grease that is super thick, until it is agitated.  At least I think it's the gear box.  That machine is pretty complex. 

The down side of it is that it's really time consuming to get it in the steering gear box.  What I did was to remove the top and push in as much as possible with a narrow putty knife.  Then after I put the top back on, I used a large horse syringe and pushed the rest in through the top filler hole.   But that stuff defies gravity.  So the trick is to get as much in as possible, then put the filler plug back in.  Then crank the steering wheel back and forth about a dozen full turns, which the wheels off the floor/ground.   Then top it off again, then crank the wheel  again, and repeat the process over and over again.  Best to do this during the winter, when you can leave the front wheels free to turn, and then do it in your spare time once in awhile.  Because this process will take a month of Sundays.  Not a job for a nice sunny day when you'd rather be out cruising.   It does work though.  The steering box on my '48 Chrysler was dripping out of the bottom at the pitman arm and I really didn't want to replace that leaking seal.  I've had the Corn Head grease in there for over a year now and it hasn't leaked a drop.  

Edited by timecapsule (see edit history)
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nat 2,500+ Points

nat

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1 hour ago, timecapsule said:

The down side of it is that it's really time consuming to get it in the steering gear box. 

     If the plug is pipe thread take the plug out and screw a grease fitting in.

     

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Grimy 25,000+ Points

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1 hour ago, nat said:

     If the plug is pipe thread take the plug out and screw a grease fitting in.

     

...and risk blowing a seal even worse than it is, meaning it now requires corn head grease.  Series 80 Pierces came from the factory with grease fittings on their steering boxes rather than pipe plugs but the tools included a "compressor, grease" which was a push-to-dispense-a-dollop OF 600W WHICH WAS CALLED 'GREASE.'  I can't tell you how many S80 boxes I've seen with blown seals because somebody post-WW2 used the fitting to add *chassis* grease at 3000 lbs psi.  Now the push-to-dispense gun would be appropriate for either 600W or corn head grease.

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