Does anyone know how many Sears Allstate cars exist today?

[Tom999w]

I found a Sears Allstate car junker in the woods and was wondering if anyone knows how many of them may exist today. I know that's a difficult question to answer, but I was hoping someone had one of those offline registry databases that no one else is allowed to access. There is a registry of the first Sears cars (from 1908-12) somewhere out there, so maybe the same group has a count for the newer Allstates (from 1952-53). 

   The internet says there were 2363 Sears Allstates manufactured for 1952-53, but it seems that they were not popular sellers and were also of poor quality, so were junked and rodded. The few I see on the internet (that haven't been destroyed with gasser modifications) are in museums although their value is next to worthless. Does anyone have any idea? 

[8E45E]

There is one in the National Car Museum in Reno.

 

Craig

[misterc9]

The KFOCI  Kaiser Frazer Owners Club International maintains a registry of known Kaiser Frazer cars. You can go to their website and inquire.

[Tom999w]

Funny, that car has no trunk and reverse light blank-out covers. Very low cost cars.. 

[8E45E]

5 minutes ago, Tom999w said:

Funny, that car has no trunk and reverse light blank-out covers. 

Reportedly, those blank-out covers are impossible to find.  Henry J's have a 'K' stamped on them from what I've been told.

 

And so is the chrome 'Allstate' emblem on the rear also unobtanium.  Its larger than the emblems used on Allstate motorcycles, and won't correctly interchange.

 

Craig

[nick8086]

They had one at the uptown cafe for years. He sold it on Craigslist.

 

I will have to look for pictures.. It was a cool car..

 

https://www.bransonuptown.com/

 

[George Cole]

6 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Reportedly, those blank-out covers are impossible to find.  Henry J's have a 'K' stamped on them from what I've been told.

 

And so is the chrome 'Allstate' emblem on the rear also unobtanium.  Its larger than the emblems used on Allstate motorcycles, and won't correctly interchange.

 

Craig

If either of those or any other 'Allstate' unique trim are on the car in the woods, it might be rusty gold.  Then again, they're only worth something to someone who needs them.

[Dave39MD]

I believe there is also one in the Savoy museum in Cartersville, Ga. It is in one of the rotating exhibition galleries so it may be on loan.

 

Dave 

[rocketraider]

12 hours ago, Tom999w said:

Funny, that car has no trunk and reverse light blank-out covers. Very low cost cars.. 

Backup lamps were extra-cost optional equipment on most cars thru the 1960s.

 

Do a little research on the Kaiser Motors "Henry J" which is what the Allstate really is, just badged and sold thru Sears Roebuck.

 

The Henry J/Allstate was a good idea on paper, but it hit the market at a time when larger cars with OHV V8s were ascendant. A bottom-line Chevrolet was only a couple hundred dollars more and had roll-down rear windows and a trunk lid, plus an OHV six and GM marketing.

 

The Nash Rambler ate the Henry J's lunch too, because for those wanting a small economical car the Rambler was well equipped compared to Henry J, and came as a stylish convertible.

 

Shame, because the Kaiser and Frazer products were good cars. Like most independents they just couldn't compete with GM, Ford and Chrysler, and what worked in wartime shipbuilding and aircraft production didn't necessarily transpose to building postwar automobiles.

 

A Kaiser Dragon with an OHV V8 could have shut some of that GM arrogance up. Beautifully styled and appointed but critically underpowered for its price point. The Kustom crowd liked K-F styling cues, especially their bumpers and guards.

[Tom999w]

12 hours ago, nick8086 said:

They had one at the uptown cafe for years. He sold it on Craigslist.

 

I will have to look for pictures.. It was a cool car..

 

https://www.bransonuptown.com/

 

That looks like it in the main picture on the website, in yellow..

[keiser31]

I have said it before and I will say it again....there is absolutely no way to tell how many of one model are still around unless it is low production (like Duesenberg or Chrysler Turbine car) and all were kept track of. There could be some languishing in some barn or shop or garage that the public has no knowledge of.

[m-mman]

As mentioned the Henry J was a  "lessor" car compared to its competition but Sears' marketing for the Allstate car doomed it from the start.  

Sears was the #1 retailer in the 1950s. They could move clothing, tools and appliances like nobody else BUT. . . cars are NOT appliances. 

Sears insisted that the Allstate be marketed the same way everything else in the store was.

 

This meant NO TRADE INS(!)  Sears was not an auto dealer and had no mechanism to dispose of used cars.

And they were sold with the Sears guarantee "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back" <yikes!>  How are you going to sell (keep sold?) automobiles with a guarantee like that?

 

They were only (test?) marketed in the southwest so no wonder they are scarce. 

 

The fact that they were sold/delivered with ALL the Sears-Allstate branded auto parts (Spark plugs, cap, wires, battery, etc.) factory installed was a neat marketing idea, but must have been a headache for Kaiser production. 

 

 

[JACK M]

I don't remember if it was Tacoma or Seattle Sears store as I would have been about four years old and we had family in both cities.

But there was an Allstate car right beside an escalator that I also recall enjoying . So the car would come into view as one rode the down escalator.

 

I wish I could remember what I had for breakfast.

[Harold]

I remember reading somewhere that Allstate cars didn't have a trunk lid but Henry the J's did.  I never checked into this but it might be true.

[Marty Roth]

1 hour ago, Harold said:

I remember reading somewhere that Allstate cars didn't have a trunk lid but Henry the J's did.  I never checked into this but it might be true.

As I recall, the opening trunk lid was an option -

absolutely and certainly on the Henry-J,

and possibly on the Allstate.

My trumpet teacher, well over 6 feet tall, drove a Henry-J back in the mid to late 1950s. The trunk was accessed by reaching over the back seat which, as I recall, folded down for access.

2 hours ago, m-mman said:

They were only (test?) marketed in the southwest so no wonder they are scarce. 

 

The fact that they were sold/delivered with ALL the Sears-Allstate branded auto parts (Spark plugs, cap, wires, battery, etc.) factory installed was a neat marketing idea, but must have been a headache for Kaiser production. 

2 hours ago, m-mman said:

 The fact that they were sold/delivered with ALL the Sears-Allstate branded auto parts (Spark plugs, cap, wires, battery, etc.) factory installed was a neat marketing idea, but must have been a headache for Kaiser production. 

 

 

 

They were marketed in New Jersey and the surrounding areas - not only in the Southwest.

 

In addition to Spark plugs, cap, wires, battery, they also came with Sears Allstate tires and if you wanted a radio, a Sears Silvertone radio was installed or sold separately for you to DIY.

I've even been told that sears brand oil was in the crankcase, but cannot verify this.

 

 

[Tom999w]

5 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

They were marketed in New Jersey and the surrounding areas - not only in the Southwest.

These cars were way before my time but based on an in-depth internet search I'm seeing people from all over the country say that they've seen these cars on display in their local Sears store when they were kids.

[Tom999w]

8 hours ago, keiser31 said:

I have said it before and I will say it again....there is absolutely no way to tell how many of one model are still around unless it is low production (like Duesenberg or Chrysler Turbine car) and all were kept track of. There could be some languishing in some barn or shop or garage that the public has no knowledge of.

I agree. And if thats the case, I wonder how many of the 2363 sold cars we're returned to Sears for the money back guarantee, and would those count towards being of the 2363... Were ALL the cars sold or were/are there "new old stock" Allstates sitting in a closed Sears warehouse somewhere... We may never know...

[Tom999w]

22 hours ago, misterc9 said:

The KFOCI  Kaiser Frazer Owners Club International maintains a registry of known Kaiser Frazer cars. You can go to their website and inquire.

Thanks very much for the info. I've been poking around that site and it appears that there is a non-public Allstate registry... I've signed up to join for more info...

[nick8086]

The All state was blue.. It must be on my backup hard drive..

 

I did find this Henry / J in my father collection or his brothers.. Not sure it is gone..

[Bloo]

I doubt there are many left. I remember a feature in some car website about an Allstate insurance agent who restored one and had it painted Allstate blue. I also saw one on Craigslist years ago when I was in no position to buy it. It may have been the same car at a different time. Those are the only two I have ever seen.

[Frank DuVal]

Tom, were you snooping around the woods in Lanexa Virginia? There was an Allstate in Philbates used parts emporium (just couldn't call it a junk yard 😁) for many years. It was still there on my last trip, which was 10 years before he passed on.

 

When it was operating:

https://www.traaca.org/JYD 1 Phil Bates.htm

 

He passed on December 22, 2013.

[8E45E]

18 hours ago, m-mman said:

As mentioned the Henry J was a  "lessor" car compared to its competition but Sears' marketing for the Allstate car doomed it from the start.  

Sears was the #1 retailer in the 1950s. They could move clothing, tools and appliances like nobody else BUT. . . cars are NOT appliances. 

Sears insisted that the Allstate be marketed the same way everything else in the store was.

 

This meant NO TRADE INS(!)  Sears was not an auto dealer and had no mechanism to dispose of used cars.

And they were sold with the Sears guarantee "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back" How are you going to sell (keep sold?) automobiles with a guarantee like that?

 

They were only (test?) marketed in the southwest so no wonder they are scarce. 

 

The fact that they were sold/delivered with ALL the Sears-Allstate branded auto parts (Spark plugs, cap, wires, battery, etc.) factory installed was a neat marketing idea, but must have been a headache for Kaiser production. 

 

IF Sears actually had hired someone who specialized in marketing automobiles, he would have suggested the Auto Centers make showroom space for one, and have one trained Henry J/Allstate mechanic to service them. 

 

It could have been somewhat successful for Sears as the shopping center concept was starting to take shape in the immediate postwar years, where the neighborhood shopping malls with a Sears anchor tenant always had an Auto Center.  Of course, the only hinderance to it becoming success was the fate of the car line it was based on.

 

Craig 

Edited March 7, 2022 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

I thought the Henry J had the pointed roof on the front above the windshield or am I confused?  Always reminded me of the haircut the kid from That Adams Family had.

[Tom999w]

2 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

I thought the Henry J had the pointed roof on the front above the windshield or am I confused?  Always reminded me of the haircut the kid from That Adams Family had.

The back of the car has the Eddie Munster window.

[rocketraider]

2 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

I thought the Henry J had the pointed roof on the front above the windshield or am I confused?  Always reminded me of the haircut the kid from That Adams Family had.

Full-size Kaiser line had the Eddie Munster windshield.

 

Back in 60s a horse farm here had a Henry J, might have been an Allstate, I was a grade school kid and just knew it was an oddball car compared to what else was around here. They had somehow rigged up dual wheels on it and used it to pull a hay trailer around the farm. The house was half a mile off the road and their teenage kids drove it out to meet the school bus every day.

 

The daughter still lives in this area. I ought to ask Suzanne about the dually Henry J and whatever happened to it.

[Tom999w]

11 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Tom, were you snooping around the woods in Lanexa Virginia?

No, I found this car in another state. 

I do love junkyards though.. I'd like to have one sometime but it would have to be hidden from the road so the code officer doesn't give any fines...

[Tom999w]

3 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

They had somehow rigged up dual wheels on it and used it to pull a hay trailer around the farm.

Reminds me of the Crosley Farm-O-Road, dual rear wheels = "four wheel drive"... I just sold a Farm-O-Road to a Crosley national club member for the big show in Wausau Wisconsin..

[Tom999w]

14 hours ago, nick8086 said:

 

I did find this Henry / J in my father collection or his brothers.. Not sure it is gone..

Very cool pictures, even the pictures themselves look old....

Edited March 7, 2022 by Tom999w (see edit history)

[DLynskey]

3 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

I thought the Henry J had the pointed roof on the front above the windshield or am I confused?  Always reminded me of the haircut the kid from That Adams Family had.

This is the one you're thinking about, a full-sized Kaiser  in this case a 1951 "Dragon" at Hershey, 2018.

 

 

And here are some Henry J's in an Iowa collectors field about 20 years ago --- some with trunk lids, some without.

 

Don

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom999w]

41 minutes ago, DLynskey said:

 

And here are some Henry J's in an Iowa collectors field about 20 years ago --- some with trunk lids, some without.

Hmm, some of those might be Allstates..

[TerryB]

Sears also sold a rebranded Vespa scooter as an Allstate scooter and rebranded European motorcycles from Puch and Gilera. The motorcycles I remember best were two cycle, twin cylinder machines.

[8E45E]

Curbside Classic must have AACA Forum spies:

 

Vintage PR Shot: 1952 Allstate – Trying Hard To Distract The Viewer | Curbside Classic

 

Car Show Classic – 1952-54 Sears Allstate: The American Dream, As Sold Through A Sears Store | Curbside Classic

 

Craig

[8E45E]

3 hours ago, TerryB said:

Sears also sold a rebranded Vespa scooter as an Allstate scooter and rebranded European motorcycles from Puch and Gilera. The motorcycles I remember best were two cycle, twin cylinder machines.

A Steyr-Puch under the Allstate name.

[nick8086]

8 hours ago, Tom999w said:

Very cool pictures, even the pictures themselves look old....

Or older 1968  to 1974

Edited March 8, 2022 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[TerryB]

Sears motorcycle

 

[Tom999w]

Very cool pictures... Looks like a garage full of Henry j's and/or Allstates.

 

Vulcanizing compound, wow...

[Tom999w]

It looks like Sears rebranded a hell of alot of things. 

[Tom999w]

2 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Curbside Classic must have AACA Forum spies

Hmm, maybe the Allstate is climbing in popularity due to covid, supply chain issues, exploding real estate sales, Biden's blank check spending, and Russia once again invading another country... It's the perfect storm that will instantly make this a six-figure car... All we need is one to sell on BJ or Mecum for $100k, and then money  vultures all over the internet who typically scour the country looking to buy old Mustangs and Camaros will soon switch over to flipping Allstates... 

[8E45E]

13 minutes ago, Tom999w said:

Hmm, maybe the Allstate is climbing in popularity due to covid, supply chain issues, exploding real estate sales, Biden's blank check spending, and Russia once again invading another country... It's the perfect storm that will instantly make this a six-figure car... All we need is one to sell on BJ or Mecum for $100k, and then money  vultures all over the internet who typically scour the country looking to buy old Mustangs and Camaros will soon switch over to flipping Allstates... 

So THAT'S the real reason why this Model T sold for so high!! 

Now that the bloom is off the rose for Model T's, Allstates will be the next best thing for baby boomer mall rats who hung out at Sears in their youth!

 

Great wisdom you have!!

[Bryan G]

I know of a local shop that restored an Allstate for someone in the 90s or early 2000s but I never had the chance to see it. In rural areas like where I live they couldn't have sold well, since Sears only had small catalog stores. Thought: suppose they'd waited 10 years to try their hand at the car business. By then Sears was anchoring more and more shopping malls nationwide. They could have offered rebadged Larks...