How You Charged Your Electric Car 100 Years Ago

[Trulyvintage]

I picked up a Milburn Electric Car today.

This is supposed to be a period electric

charger for the batteries.

 

Jim

 

 

 

[TerryB]

Cool generator to make your own charging station.  I wonder what powered it?  Looks like it runs at 1750 RPM.

[ply33]

Is it a motor-generator? (That is, is half a AC motor driving the other half a DC generator?)

[Trulyvintage]

It looks like a TransVerter:

 

@ http://frank-dutton.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-hertner-transverter.html?m=1

 

 

 

 

Jim

 

[ply33]

Interesting that it was to provide power for a movie projector. I would never have guessed that the movie house projectors needed DC power.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

It appears it is for ARC lights, like carbon arc searchlights which would require DC. I think it would be easier to just get a charger for the Milburn car

[Trulyvintage]

Because the TransVerter generated DC voltage - it could have been used to charge an electric car back in the day.

 

 

Jim

[TAKerry]

I know nothing about electric, but after seeing the ad for 'movie projectors' I would guess that its pure speculation that this thing was used as a car charger. I have seen a few others in this forum and they have no similarities. 

[Mikefit]

Movie projectors used carbon ark at least up to the early 70s 

[TerryB]

AC lighting has a 60 cycle strobe effect on light bulbs.  With DC power it’s continuous light with no strobe effect.  Add in the motion of film frames to the mix to best option is a DC light to keep screen brightness constant.  The generator pictured is 90v DC out which was a common voltage for early electric cars.

[Rusty_OToole]

See if there is a fork lift repair shop in your area. They should be able to find you a modern charger of the type used for electric fork lifts.

[Trulyvintage]

Thanks but I don’t need a charger.

 

I am transporting this Milburn Electric

Car from Washington to the Hershey Swap Meet - then possibly to Florida.

 

 

 

The TransVerter is thought by the Seller to possibly be a period correct charger.

 

Pretty cool if it could get rebuilt and actually charge the car when it was restored 😎

 

 

Jim

[Restorer32]

Charging is no problem.  Just order an 84 volt charger.  Readily available, cost about $500.  This is what we did with the Rauch and Lang we restored and what we will do with the Milburn we are currently restoring. We found it interesting that with the R&L the headlights, taillight, dome light and horn were all 84 volt!

[Frank DuVal]

16 hours ago, TerryB said:

 I wonder what powered it?  

110 or 220 single phase house power per the second data plate picture.👍

 

Carbon arc did much better on DC, as the electrons never stop flowing in one direction. No need to re-strike the arc 60 times a second....

There were setups to advance a carbon rod to keep the arc steady during the picture. Then there is the nickel trick. Learned that on Columbo, later confirmed by a co-worker who used to run projectors.😉

 

While that could be used to charge batteries, much better to use modern charger with safety features.

[JimKB1MCV]

  To charge a bank of batteries the machine probably would need some kind of load regulation, full output to a bank of batteries could be exciting.

  My experience is with DC to AC converters is on ships with DC systems (Usually 120 or 240 DC) that required AC for modern electronics. By ~ 1962 most, probably all, newbuilds were 440 3ph AC.

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

110 or 220 single phase house power per the second data plate picture.👍

 

Carbon arc did much better on DC, as the electrons never stop flowing in one direction. No need to re-strike the arc 60 times a second....

There were setups to advance a carbon rod to keep the arc steady during the picture. Then there is the nickel trick. Learned that on Columbo, later confirmed by a co-worker who used to run projectors.😉

 

While that could be used to charge batteries, much better to use modern charger with safety features.

 

Well don't keep us hanging. I used to run carbon-arc projectors and I don't remember any nickel trick. What was it?

 

These projectors were from 1946, and the lamphouses had automatic feed motors. The adjustments had been so dialed in over the previous decades that they hardly ever needed any intervention during a reel.

 

 

[TexRiv_63]

This is my favorite early electric car charger from 1908 - with the "Mercury Arc Rectifier". This had to have been used when they brought the monster to life in Frankenstein!

 

 

[TerryB]

35 minutes ago, Bloo said:

 

Well don't keep us hanging. I used to run carbon-arc projectors and I don't remember any nickel trick. What was it?

 

These projectors were from 1946, and the lamphouses had automatic feed motors. The adjustments had been so dialed in over the previous decades that they hardly ever needed any intervention during a reel.

 

 

You have to watch the Colombo episode to find the relationship to the nickel.  Think buffalo nickel, not the metal.  Very cool projectionist trick!

[Restorer32]

We restored one of those chargers to go along with the 1918 Rauch and Lang we restored.  We actually found several of those glass tubes NOS. 

[Studeous]

One or two carbon arcs and nitrocellulose film in the same room…… how exciting!

[Trulyvintage]

Nitrate based film is more stable than 

you think - I researched transport of it

earlier this year when I was asked to haul

donated ephemera to a museum.

 

 

Jim

Edited September 8, 2021 by Trulyvintage (see edit history)

[JimKB1MCV]

3 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said:

This is my favorite early electric car charger from 1908 - with the "Mercury Arc Rectifier". This had to have been used when they brought the monster to life in Frankenstein!

 

 

 

Seal Cove had one of these rectifier tubes on display with a Detroit Electric when I visited there last year.

 

  My WW2 vintage radio transmitter used in heavy aircraft is a Collins ART13 with a 900 to 1500 V variable power supply with a pair of (much smaller) mercury rectifier  tubes which have a purple glow that modulate with voice peaks. Calling Dr. Frankenstien.

[TAKerry]

When my dad was a young man he worked several jobs to support his large family. One was as a projectionist. Unfortunately he is gone now and I know nothing other than where the theatre was. Would be neat to know if he did the nickle trick (Columbo is a staple in my household!)

[prewarnut]

This brings back memories...I'm post carbon bulbs but I did some projecting in college. What a bit of work: inspecting reels, finding marks, occasional splicing, fighting the machine, loosing the film all over the floor.... We'd sometimes get a bit sloppy cueing things up. One night I was showing something G-d awful, can't remember what but showed it in order 1-3-2-4. I don't think the audience knew! At least I didn't lose my job that night *laugh*.

[Frank DuVal]

OK, I threw out a red herring there, as the nickel trick has nothing to do with the carbon arc lamp, just the film. And it might have been a quarter, been a while since I saw it.😉

[8E45E]

This MAR was used for some of Edmonton's trolley buses up until the 1970's.

 

Craig

[Bloo]

4 hours ago, Studeous said:

One or two carbon arcs and nitrocellulose film in the same room…… how exciting!

 

There were flame traps in the projector heads, and the reels ran in closed reel houses that also had flame traps. In a typical booth, there were weighted sheet metal doors over the holes out into the house. They could be tripped by a string next to the door. The booths were fireproofed with god knows how much asbestos, and a fire door. In some cases there may have been automatic carbon tet fire extinguishers in there. If things went really sour, you were supposed to pull the string that shut the holes in front of the projectors, slam the door and sound the alarm. The booth was designed to keep the fire inside long enough to get everybody out of the building, maybe 20 minutes.

 

In my day, the nitrate film was long gone. We had acetate (safety) film, and ran with the reel house doors open.

 

[wws944]

The Lincoln welder folks used to manufacture similar motor-generators for EV charging back then.

 

In one of Lenos Baker Electric videos, he shows his period charging stand - complete with mercury arc rectifier on display.  But as with the Detroit Electric that we have at the Trolley Barn, modern batteries and charging electronics are used.

Edited September 9, 2021 by wws944 (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

15 hours ago, 8E45E said:

This MAR was used for some of Edmonton's trolley buses up until the 1970's.

 

Craig

WOW!! I'd love to see that in action...

[ply33]

58 minutes ago, TexRiv_63 said:

WOW!! I'd love to see that in action...

Me too. But reading up on how they worked and how much UV they radiated, I think I’d want to have some pretty good UV protection between it and me.

[wws944]

1 hour ago, ply33 said:

Me too. But reading up on how they worked and how much UV they radiated, I think I’d want to have some pretty good UV protection between it and me.

 

Typical trolleys of the era ran the overhead power lines at 600V DC, though some interurbans ran at 1200V DC and even higher.  IIRC, the motors in the bigger trolley we run at the Trolley Barn can draw up to about 75 kW.  So the rectifier has to be able to support over 100 amps on the DC side - just for the one car.  That is quite a lot of current for vacuum tube technology - especially 100 years ago.

 

It is interesting that Edmonton used mercury arc rectifiers.  Typically rotary converters, basically motor-generators, were used.

Edited September 9, 2021 by wws944 (see edit history)

[8E45E]

2 hours ago, wws944 said:

 

Typical trolleys of the era ran the overhead power lines at 600V DC, though some interurbans ran at 1200V DC and even higher.  IIRC, the motors in the bigger trolley we run at the Trolley Barn can draw up to about 75 kW.  So the rectifier has to be able to support over 100 amps on the DC side - just for the one car.  That is quite a lot of current for vacuum tube technology - especially 100 years ago.

 

It is interesting that Edmonton used mercury arc rectifiers.  Typically rotary converters, basically motor-generators, were used.

More here---------->  Mercury Arc Rectifier| EPHF

 

Craig

[1935Packard]

On 9/8/2021 at 2:09 PM, Restorer32 said:

We restored one of those chargers to go along with the 1918 Rauch and Lang we restored.  We actually found several of those glass tubes NOS. 

 

Slightly off-topic, maybe, but I'd be interested to know how restoring these electrics cars (either the R&L, or the Milburn) compares to restoring a gas-powered car.  Perhaps easier because there are fewer moving parts?

[Restorer32]

Yes, generally less expensive. Fewer moving parts, generally less brightwork, no exhaust, no coolant system.  On the other hand electrics have lots of wood in their bodies and upholstery can be complicated.  Figure $6000 + or - to have an electric car motor completely rebuilt.  Controllers can be time consuming to make right.

[Restorer32]

And if the car has curved glass windows...We spent $5k to have 4 curved windows made in laminated safety glass and it was very difficult to find anyone who could/would make them. Half the cost was for the molds.

[1935Packard]

11 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

Yes, generally less expensive. Fewer moving parts, generally less brightwork, no exhaust, no coolant system.  On the other hand electrics have lots of wood in their bodies and upholstery can be complicated.  Figure $6000 + or - to have an electric car motor completely rebuilt.  Controllers can be time consuming to make right.

 

Interesting, thanks!  I've been interested in getting into the early electric world, and that's useful to know.

[ply33]

13 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

Yes, generally less expensive. Fewer moving parts, generally less brightwork, no exhaust, no coolant system.  On the other hand electrics have lots of wood in their bodies and upholstery can be complicated.  Figure $6000 + or - to have an electric car motor completely rebuilt.  Controllers can be time consuming to make right.

I am curious about how the controllers worked. . . A high power rheostat seems unlikely but what else could they use with the technology available at that time. Could you give us a little explanation even if only at a high level?

[Restorer32]

14 hours ago, ply33 said:

I am curious about how the controllers worked. . . A high power rheostat seems unlikely but what else could they use with the technology available at that time. Could you give us a little explanation even if only at a high level?

The controllers on the electrics we have worked on are stepped. For instance the Rauch and Lang has 5 speeds or "steps" rather than a continuous power curve as with a thermostat. Fairly simple once you understand them.

[Restorer32]

Thermostat...lol..of course I meant "rheostat".

[ply33]

1 hour ago, Restorer32 said:

The controllers on the electrics we have worked on are stepped. For instance the Rauch and Lang has 5 speeds or "steps" rather than a continuous power curve as with a thermostat. Fairly simple once you understand them.

So do the “steps” switch in/out various high power resistors? Do they connect the batteries in various series/parallel combinations? Or do they something else like switch in/out successive field coils in the motor?