The phone rang... and then the next car adventure starts

[wayne sheldon]

I/we look forward to it!

 

 

O-boy-o-boy-o-boy!

[ericmac]

I can't wait to hear about this!

[1935Packard]

Corrnering the White market, I wonder what Ed knows....

[edinmass]

6 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

Corrnering the White market, I wonder what Ed knows....

Easy! More money than brains!

[edinmass]

On the road again…..

[wayne sheldon]

That is a great looking nickel age car!

[edinmass]

I’m about 2500 miles away from home, but Phil is very happy. I expect he will have 80% of it sorted before I get home next week. 

[edinmass]

Live shot this morning. 

[Paul Dobbin]

What are you riding in, in that photo?.   Not a White or a vehicle that will get you back to Florida ahead of Phil.

[edinmass]

It’s J-190.

[edinmass]

Nice day for a tour through Arches National Park. Top down on the Murphy.

[Matt Harwood]

-10 convertible points for driving with the top down and the windows up.

[edinmass]

10 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

-10 convertible points for driving with the top down and the windows up.

At 70mph and fifty five degrees, with a lady in the car? 👊
 

How about +40 for walking along a rock shelf twenty inches wide with a 600 foot drop?

Edited September 21, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Car looks so great without the extra multi Trippe/Pilot ray doo dah lightsl, black walls on a black car too. No plated spare tire covers..........................

[Matt Harwood]

11 minutes ago, edinmass said:

At 70mph and fifty five degrees, with a lady in the car? 👊
 

How about +40 for walking along a rock shelf twenty inches wide with a 600 foot drop?

 

Meh. DRIVE it and I'll be impressed.

 

[1912Staver]

Been up here a few times in younger years . Only in the late Summer mind you when most of the snow has melted. From the top it's a long drop. The easy way up is on the other side but still it's a pretty exposed climb up a chimney . I doubt I could do it these days. Even the trek to the base would wear me out.

Black Tusk, near Whistler B.C.

 

[1912Staver]

Of course for those of us 60 + there is always plan B

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Sorry for the delay, I have been on the road for about 14 days, many areas with zero cell or text coverage. Arrived in Florida for two days before I take off up to Hershey. Got to see the new White hard top in person today for the first time, and guess who pulls up while I am looking it over in the first five minutes.......AJ, or Alsancle. Fun to look over a new toy with good friends. Phil is in the photo.

 

Overall very happy with the car. Looks like a tractor mechanic had his hands on it in the past, as to be expected. Missing some minor and major parts and components. No worries, we will have them all manufactured soon. Car looks great, and had several great surprises which I will share in the next few days. Clutch was way out of whack.......see why on the photo. We have plans on how to fix it. It’s a fantastic car. Best, Ed.

Edited September 28, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

AJ stopped by today. We intended to take the Stearns Knight Brunn auto show car out to dinner, but it seems the radiator hose develop an issue. Fortunately we had ordered new ones and they’re in stock along with correct hose clamps. So tomorrow at lunch we will swap everything out and take the Stearns out for dinner. Since he’s had the car for 18 months and never seen it, we got a big kick out of watching me drive it around the parking lot this afternoon. We took the 17 white ruby body touring car out to dinner. Driving it through the city with the lights on after dark was a lot of fun. The whole evening crowds are standing around the car in the downtown. AJ took photos. I’m sure he’ll post them. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

So Ed took me to dinner.  Of course I paid and tipped the valet.  We had the best parking spot in town at the most popular restaurant in Palm Beach.   The car was a big hit.   What was most impressive to me was how fast it is.  Scary fast.   I'll bet it will out run 80% of the 1930 cars I've been in.

The other thing the impressed me was how well it runs.  Ed hadn't started it in a month, and it started on 3 spins.  Never stalled.  Pulls from 5 mph to 50 in "direct" drive which is 3rd.  Only got it in 4th once because you are going 60 plus in that gear.

 

I have a video but it might need to wait till I'm home.

[edinmass]

Just for the record, The food always tastes better when AJ pays! It was a fun evening. We had a bunch of people stop by the table commenting on the car during dinner. Tomorrow night we’re going to go to one of those places in the Brunn......... you know what kind of place it is.........dinner for two will cost three hundred bucks, and on the way home to stop for a pizza so you’re not hungry anymore. You got a love those froufrou restaurants. By the way, AJ......your buying tomorrow night also. I throw down for a three day old hot dog at Hershey next week........just remember to bring your own catchup!

Edited September 29, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Mid to late 1910s automobiles tend to be faster than most cars of the 1920s. Manufacturers were improving technology quickly,  and bragging how fast they were! Wheels were larger (big footed!), and engines turning faster than ever before.

By 1920, after the 'Great War', with more and more people moving into cities to  live, many states began setting and enforcing speed limits. Most miles being driven were in or close to cities where 'fast' just wasn't safe. So people actually had less opportunity to drive really fast! Which, in fact most people did not actually do before anyway. So, people became more interested in comfort in daily driving rather than in speed. As the new low pressure 'balloon' tires started becoming popular, wheel sizes and therefore circumference became smaller. Rather than raising gear ratios to compensate for the smaller wheels and tires, manufacturers actually lowered gear ratios slightly. The result was, cars simply did not go quite as fast.

It would be the mid to late 1930s before automobiles would be that fast again. Highways built during the depression made long distance travel and higher speeds easier.

 

All that said. The powerful White is exceptionally fast! While the 1915 Studebaker six I used to have could do over 55, and actually liked a bit over 50 (I sure do miss that car!)? Ed M's White can do almost 20 mph more! Yeah, I would call that "scary fast!"

 

I actually do not know what the top speed was for my Studebaker. I did get it up to 57 or 58 a couple times. At that, it was still accelerating! But I do not like to abuse my cars. It liked 52, and that was where I usually drove it.

[Gary_Ash]

On the recent Revival Glidden Tour in Saratoga Springs, NY, Jeff and Angie Chattin brought their 1911 Thomas Flyer by driving it from Georgia.  On the tour days, that car could cruise, no problems.  They had to have driven 1100 miles each way plus 400 on the tours, plus wherever else they went.  Doing that in a 110 year old car is gutsy.  So, I see Wayne's point about how the 'Teens cars had high speed capability, especially on modern roads.

 

  

Edited September 29, 2021 by Gary_Ash (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Here is a 1917 White, sold to the US government and used at a Navy base. I like the script on the radiator, and think I will add it to my car. Front bumper is different than mine, and possibly a few other small details that I need to stand in front of my car to verify. It’s a favorite photo of the many I have in my collection.

[wayne sheldon]

I wish I could climb into that photo, and drive that car out to park in my garage!

I am not sure what I would do about the color though? I know a lot of people have painted their antique White cars white, but I haven't seen many era pictures of them that way?

[edinmass]

Seems White, painted a lot of their cars white. I have a half dozen original photos on my hard drive down south. It would be an interesting color choice for my car if I restored it.......not gonna happen!

[nzcarnerd]

Posted on a facebook page today - no info with it - 

[nzcarnerd]

On 9/29/2021 at 2:32 PM, wayne sheldon said:

Mid to late 1910s automobiles tend to be faster than most cars of the 1920s. Manufacturers were improving technology quickly,  and bragging how fast they were! Wheels were larger (big footed!), and engines turning faster than ever before.

By 1920, after the 'Great War', with more and more people moving into cities to  live, many states began setting and enforcing speed limits. Most miles being driven were in or close to cities where 'fast' just wasn't safe. So people actually had less opportunity to drive really fast! Which, in fact most people did not actually do before anyway. So, people became more interested in comfort in daily driving rather than in speed. As the new low pressure 'balloon' tires started becoming popular, wheel sizes and therefore circumference became smaller. Rather than raising gear ratios to compensate for the smaller wheels and tires, manufacturers actually lowered gear ratios slightly. The result was, cars simply did not go quite as fast.

It would be the mid to late 1930s before automobiles would be that fast again. Highways built during the depression made long distance travel and higher speeds easier.

 

All that said. The powerful White is exceptionally fast! While the 1915 Studebaker six I used to have could do over 55, and actually liked a bit over 50 (I sure do miss that car!)? Ed M's White can do almost 20 mph more! Yeah, I would call that "scary fast!"

 

I actually do not know what the top speed was for my Studebaker. I did get it up to 57 or 58 a couple times. At that, it was still accelerating! But I do not like to abuse my cars. It liked 52, and that was where I usually drove it.

 A recently deceased acquaintance had both a 1918 Packard Twin Six, and a 1930 733 Standard Eight phaeton. Always said the Twins Six was the faster car.

 

I guess your Stude six had a quite tall rear end? Those engines didn't rev very hard I think - maybe not much over 2000? My 1929 Dictator is saddled with a 4.66:1 rear end and I think 60 mph is about all it will do - and it is really busy at that - up around 3000 rpm. We have a 4.3 to put in it but are considering an overdrive instead. Choice between a post WW2 Studebaker BW three speed with o/d which came with the parts when we bought it - - or else keeping the original box and adding the o/d unit from a British Triumph car gearbox which I also have  in the shed.  Being a (false) cabriolet I think it is quite a bit lighter than a sedan, although the weights quoted in The Standard Catalog suggest they are the same. I will have to run it over a weighbridge some day.

[edinmass]

3 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

Posted on a facebook page today - no info with it - 

 

Had it already, thanks for posting.

[wayne sheldon]

3 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

 

I guess your Stude six had a quite tall rear end? Those engines didn't rev very hard I think - maybe not much over 2000?

 

I never did try to figure out what the rear end ratio was. The restoration was begun by an 'old' friend that sadly died way too young long before he was able to finish the car (long sad story). He was a noted Studebaker expert and collector that wanted that specific year and model as his primary Horseless Carriage Club car as it had the largest engine and longest wheelbase of any pre1916 standard model Studebaker. Although not wealthy by usual definitions, he had worked very hard and over his years built up a decent collection of Studebakers from very early up to one of the last real Studebaker produced Avanti cars. He had spent many years collecting parts and improving his early cars, and had all the pieces necessary to restore this car just how he wanted it.

After he died, another hobbyist completed the restoration, not quite to the level he had intended. Several years later, I was looking to get a bigger better pre1916 (an important hobby cutoff point on this side of our pond?), and when I discovered this had been my friends car, the timing was right, and we got it. Unfortunately a number of years later my circumstances forced me to have to sell it. It will probably always be the car I most regret having to sell.

[nzcarnerd]

3 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

I never did try to figure out what the rear end ratio was. The restoration was begun by an 'old' friend that sadly died way too young long before he was able to finish the car (long sad story). He was a noted Studebaker expert and collector that wanted that specific year and model as his primary Horseless Carriage Club car as it had the largest engine and longest wheelbase of any pre1916 standard model Studebaker. Although not wealthy by usual definitions, he had worked very hard and over his years built up a decent collection of Studebakers from very early up to one of the last real Studebaker produced Avanti cars. He had spent many years collecting parts and improving his early cars, and had all the pieces necessary to restore this car just how he wanted it.

After he died, another hobbyist completed the restoration, not quite to the level he had intended. Several years later, I was looking to get a bigger better pre1916 (an important hobby cutoff point on this side of our pond?), and when I discovered this had been my friends car, the timing was right, and we got it. Unfortunately a number of years later my circumstances forced me to have to sell it. It will probably always be the car I most regret having to sell.

 

On this 'side of the pond' - diagonally across the Pacific - the magic date is 31 December 1918, before which a vehicle is 'veteran' and after which it is vintage. (The 'vintage era ends on 31 December 1931.) Back in the early days of the Vintage Car Club of New Zealand they had to come up with some cut off dates and they were what was chosen. As I am sure you are aware excludes some that, due to a quirk of the calendar, or shipping dates, might have been regarded as a year earlier. Nowadays there is more information available to those dating vehicles and generally they are dated more accurately than in the past. I guess it is never an exact science as  - how do you date a vehicle? - by model year or date of build, or date of first registration? In the late 1920s Studebaker was introducing new models at odd times of the calendar year it is difficult to say any one car is certain year model. My Studebaker is registered as 1929 but it was already in New Zealand by Christmas 1928. (It wasn't actually sold until 31 July 1930.) My 1965 Pontiac was assembled in California in the first week of September 1964, but it is still a '65.

[edinmass]

Generally, in the US, dates of build VS date of model years are not important unless your trying to run the car in one of two private car clubs.......the CCCA, and the HCCA. 

[wayne sheldon]

7 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

 

On this 'side of the pond' - diagonally across the Pacific - the magic date is 31 December 1918, before which a vehicle is 'veteran' and after which it is vintage. (The 'vintage era ends on 31 December 1931.) Back in the early days of the Vintage Car Club of New Zealand they had to come up with some cut off dates and they were what was chosen. As I am sure you are aware excludes some that, due to a quirk of the calendar, or shipping dates, might have been regarded as a year earlier.

 

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

Generally, in the US, dates of build VS date of model years are not important unless your trying to run the car in one of two private car clubs.......the CCCA, and the HCCA. 

 

I suspect that one of the 'real' reasons the HCCA has had so many fights over the years is that they are the one club where so many cars fall into that narrow gray area. The CCCA is 'mostly' about specific makes and models, with only some makes and models being on the edges where a couple months difference in manufacture makes a difference to the club. In a few instances, a few makes and models will have a cutoff for a specific timeframe in the midst of all that (like early Studebaker Presidents did for awhile?).

I have known of your 'Veteran' and 'Vintage' classifications for quite some time. Those and the London to Brighton Run cutoff dates are similar, but different, to our HCCA.

Maybe if it mattered in more organizations, people would get used to the idea. One of the most difficult issues is the question of "when is a car a car?" When the block is cast? (Not really.) When the engine is assembled? (Better, but I would still say no?) When the chassis is standing and running? (Certainly arguable?) As it stands, people tend to rely on faulty records and guesswork, usually with an eye on "MY car qualifies but YOUR car doesn't!" The sad truth is that a lot of records are faulty, and for a lot of reasons.

Some people think it isn't a car until it is sold by the dealer to its first owner. The biggest problem with that idea is simply that MOST common automobiles that early? Nobody KNOWS when it was first sold! The flip side is that many cars were the one that was kept by the dealer for half a year to demonstrate it to potential customers. How can a car that was kept and used for six months not count as a car?

I knew of a 1922 Oldsmobile that was kept by the dealer for thirty years! When the dealer did eventually sell it, the car was legally titled as a 1952! I saw the paperwork displayed at a car show about forty years ago!

 

Another serious issue is "How much of a given car HAD to have been THAT car at that early time? How much can you replace? Upholstery? Tires? Paint? (All pretty much a given?) But how much of the wooden structure of the body? How much of the sheet metal? Fenders? Body? And just how much of the car can have been replaced even by identical era pieces from another car? And how much provenance should be required for each individual car?

In this country, very few cars manufactured before 1925 have real provenance back to the day they were new. Most early ownership records were not kept, not by the state, not by the owners. And if a car survived its 'old age' when it was no longer used, AND the depression, AND World War Two, the fact the car survives at all is remarkable enough! The fact that nobody knows who owned it originally was largely accepted over a half century ago. Of course there are many exceptions to all that.

Too many people make too big a deal out of something they cannot prove. Whether discussing a 1916 model Year Reo? Was it a car in December 1915? Or not until February 1916? That can be tough to prove! Or a 1910 Stanley Steamer? Is it a real one or not? (If it isn't a known original with provenance back to at least WW2 it probably isn't?) But everyone loves to see that Stanley Steamer!

 

Some of these issues? There will always be people unhappy with the status quo. Some will be angry that their clearly a 1918 car isn't the 1915 they thought it was (I have personally met several of those people, including one with a model TT truck from the 1920s!). Others will be unhappy that everybody doesn't agree with the faulty information they believe was handed down from the Mount to Moses!

 

Now, back to the great and wonderful Whites! Which by the way, I know enough about to fully accept the earlier one as a 1915!

[edinmass]

More 1917 White news coming up in the next few weeks.

[mike6024]

Different view, Pikes Peak 

 

[Dandy Dave]

A friend called me a few days ago and said he has a White out of storage and needs some help. I went down and took a look yesterday. It is a Model 15B One Ton and rolled off the production line November of 1928. 

[Dandy Dave]

Engine photos. Basically like my model 15 but with some up grades. This truck has overdrive. Little wear on the peddles. Note the vacuum fuel pump. Still has the lost oil system. Generator is mounted where the water pump on my 15 is. The water pump has been moved and driven with a V-belt. 

   

Edited November 10, 2021 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Dave, Ed would consider that 1928 a modern vehicle compared to his teen models! 
dave s 

 

Still kind of a neat truck. 

[8E45E]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:41 PM, edinmass said:

Seems White, painted a lot of their cars white. 

And Black painted a lot of his cars black! 

 https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/stove-huggers-the-non-studebaker-forum/57418-orphan-of-the-day-11-05-1894-black 

 https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/stove-huggers-the-non-studebaker-forum/51468-orphan-of-the-day-04-07-1909-black

 

Craig

Edited November 10, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

2 hours ago, SC38dls said:

Dave, Ed would consider that 1928 a modern vehicle compared to his teen models! 
dave s 

 

Still kind of a neat truck. 

Yes. But still has the same basic driveline that was used in the Teens. Great for comparison of components. They continued with this model thru 1930.