Period images to relieve some of the stress

[Walt G]

This is an example from the ca. 1928 R-R New York dealership sales folder of Used cars.

[LCK81403]

Walt, when you have the time, please share more of these car-for-sale ads.  This is really interesting material.  When I sold my '35 Terraplane I left the 1935 newspaper in the trunk for the new owner, but I wish now that I had kept it.  It was a section of a Minneapolis newspaper that had the used car ads, and that made for savory reading.  This photo that you posted is really wonderful.

[John_Mereness]

2 hours ago, TAKerry said:

I wouldnt know 1 car from another, although I would bet that the delivery truck was electric. I did recognize the Duesenburg. As far as the quality of automobile, I would imagine that if this street is still 'high end' there is an disproportionate number of Lincolns (town cars) to others.

I WAS THINKING THE TRUCK WAS ELECTRIC TOO.

[Walt G]

OK, one more for tonight. Here is a Crane Simplex for sale from the same RR of NY dealership sales folder of used cars  circa 1928

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[nickelroadster]

Mr. Gelinas,

Are all those photos yours?  You have some very nice and interesting pictures. 

[dictator27]

2 hours ago, Dave Gelinas (XP-300) said:

This is the most well known of Vancouver's chain of Aristocratic restaurants,which was  located at the intersection of Granville and Smithe.

[nzcarnerd]

6 hours ago, Walt G said:

OK, one more for tonight. Here is a Crane Simplex for sale from the same RR of NY dealership sales folder of used cars  circa 1928

 

By coincidence Jay Leno's latest video is about his Simplex Crane.

 

1916 Crane-Simplex Model 5 Holbrook Skiff - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube

[Walt G]

Henry Austin Clark Jr. liked the Simplex automobiles so much that back in the mid 1950s he traced the company history  to see who owned the rights to build a Simplex car. He found that information and purchased the name etc. to do so. Talk about being enthusiastic about a specific make of car! Many may not know but Austin was a lawyer, graduated from Harvard and was in the same graduating  class as John F. Kennedy.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Walt G (see edit history)

[Walt G]

For some of you , period accessories should be justified in print from material of the era the accessory was offered. Here is one way to justify the addition of this accessory that will set you apart from the rest of the crowd . It is from a catalog issued in 1935 by the W.S. Darley & Company of Chicago. "Buyers Guide No. 103", to be exact. Has some rather interesting other equipment as well. Mostly for use by law enforcement types.

Even has some period clothing  like Regulation Strait Jackets who had a 3% discount with cash or money order for shipment! 🙄

[LCK81403]

Did Crane Simplex custom build their cars, similar to the Kissel custom builds?  Rummaging around in my Simplex photos there is a '15 and a '16 sedans that closely resemble Walt's Simplex ad, but there are detail differences among them.  Walt's undated Simplex shows a body bead running length-wise from the hood to the rear of the rear door which is a feature not shown on the '15 and '16 Simplex's.  Custom body work by Simplex or different body manufactures?

 

[edinmass]

Austin was a lot of fun.............

 

 

And a Crane-Simplex is a fantastic car. One of my favorite platforms of the era. One of the few cars I would like to add to my list of 'have owned" cars.

[Walt G]

Since Simplex , like Kissel was a lower production /volume car, most bodies were not built by Simplex - they would get small ( 5 or less) production runs of the more popular body styles ( open and enclosed) and did not really have their own assembly line body section as we are accustomed to seeing photos of. The Budd Co. of Philadelphia and Fleetwood , also of Pa. would do small production runs. Derham built enclosed bodies for the Fox car made in Philadelphia. The Healey Company would also supply bodies.  Brewster did some limited production run coachwork as well. All of these could be ordered / altered to suit particular customers needs - moldings added, special interiors : cloth, leather, woodwork, hardware.

Another article/story that needs to be addressed and told based on period printed matter , especially periodicals that were sold to the industry and not available to the general public on the news stands. They had sections in those magazine  detailing what employees moved from where to where regarding coach builders, and when you know that , you can see why some cars took on a bit of the flavor of another make styling wise . Designers and stylists were in a sense in competition, even within one corporation like General Motors. The assorted G.M. divisions did not want one make under their umbrella looking at what the other division was doing ideas wise - I got this first hand in conversation with a G.M. designer who was there in the early 1950s. Remember it was an era of hand drawn images, using french curves and rulers, and slide rules for calculations . No computers to tap a key to get something created on a screen.

Many stories will not be told or recorded because some clubs do not have the room in their publications for such, I was told that "it is hard to find 4 pages" in one publication in particular. But there is still some hope yet in a new quarterly magazine coming out of New England.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Walt G (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

17 hours ago, Walt G said:

This is an example from the ca. 1928 R-R New York dealership sales folder of Used cars.

Great stuff, Walt!  Here's a better look. 

 

Although both the Simplex, Crane Model 5 and the McFarlan were among the most exclusive, high-quality and expensive motorcars of the period, but as used cars they were still a problem to resell.  Out-of-production nameplates plummeted to pennies on the dollar.  Pure conjecture, but the Rolls-Royce dealer knew that McFarlan as an automaker was on its last legs in 1928, hoped to move that roadster before potential customer shied away by the prospect of owning an 'orphan' car.    Those who could afford the $2,800-$3,000 prices for a used luxury car prudently headed for their Packard dealer to negotiate purchase of a used 243 or 343...or a 236 Sport Touring!   

[twin6]

I believe Brewster built the bodies on the 2 limousines in the color/modern photos posted by LCK81403.

[edinmass]

23 minutes ago, twin6 said:

I believe Brewster built the bodies on the 2 limousines in the color/modern photos posted by LCK81403.

 

You are correct, as I have worked on one of them.  👍

[Walt G]

Ed and Tim thank you for the confirmation of who built the bodies. This is why the AACA Forums are so great, conversations that put answers together for 100 year old motor vehicles , down to who built a body on a car out of wood, brass, bronze and steel . The information is priceless , and although I much prefer a print publication to sit at and read and hold in my hands rather then a computer screen - this works and the well sorted information is now here. Thanks to all who have contributed and also urged and inspired us to keep adding to it. Pandemic therapy by car community activity. ( yeah I know that seems a bit academically stated , and I won't do that again, down to earth comments are where it is at!)

Walt

[Gary_Ash]

Walt referred to the use of French curves, triangles, compasses, etc. in the design of cars before the computer age.  Here are two 1932 photos of the Fisher Body design and metal shops.  All the design guys are wearing ties and white shirts.  Lots of French curves hanging on the walls and on the drafting tables. I'm guessing that these photos were taken from the middle of the shop looking in both directions, though it could have been two different buildings of identical construction.  It was Harley Earl, I was told, who introduced the sets of calibrated "sweeps" to define the curvature of car bodies.  The concept of sweeps was taken from shipbuilding and railroad track layout.  Standard automotive sweeps were 60 inches long and the sweep number set the number of 1/8" offsets at the center of the sweep.  So, a #6 sweep is a shallow curve with 6/8" offset while a #24 sweep had 3" of offset.   Higher numbers resulted in short sweeps. 

You can buy full sets of sweeps from Fay Butler:  http://www.faybutler.com/sweeps2.htm

 

Any recognizable cars in these pictures? 

 

   

 

 

[8E45E]

3 hours ago, Walt G said:

Designers and stylists were in a sense in competition, even within one corporation like General Motors. The assorted G.M. divisions did not want one make under their umbrella looking at what the other division was doing ideas wise - I got this first hand in conversation with a G.M. designer who was there in the early 1950s. Remember it was an era of hand drawn images, using french curves and rulers, and slide rules for calculations.

When GM disbanded separate design studios and separate engine divisions is what led to their downfall.  

 

IF only GM had learned from BMC/British Leyland a generation prior!!

 

Craig

[8E45E]

6 minutes ago, Gary_Ash said:

Walt referred to the use of French curves, triangles, compasses, etc. in the design of cars before the computer age.  Here are two 1932 photos of the Fisher Body design and metal shops.  All the design guys are wearing ties and white shirts.  Lots of French curves hanging on the walls and on the drafting tables. I'm guessing that these photos were taken from the middle of the shop looking in both directions, though it could have been two different buildings of identical construction.  It was Harley Earl, I was told, who introduced the sets of calibrated "sweeps" to define the curvature of car bodies.  The concept of sweeps was taken from shipbuilding and railroad track layout.  Standard automotive sweeps were 60 inches long and the sweep number set the number of 1/8" offsets at the center of the sweep.  So, a #6 sweep is a shallow curve with 6/8" offset while a #24 sweep had 3" of offset.   Higher numbers resulted in short sweeps. 

You can buy full sets of sweeps from Fay Butler:  http://www.faybutler.com/sweeps2.htm

 

Any recognizable cars in these pictures? 

 

   

 

 

I believe these two photos have to do with the development of their highly advertised 'Turret Top' that came out in 1935.  They somewhat considered it a historic moment in all-steel body making after getting rid of wooden framework.

 

Craig

Edited March 23, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

16 hours ago, nickelroadster said:

Mr. Gelinas,

Are all those photos yours?  You have some very nice and interesting pictures. 

About half and half. Mine and from the internet.

[Walt G]

Once a specific design/style was considered a success, thin plywood and eventually Masonite patterns would be used to lay on material to trace and then cut out. This was particularly true with station wagon bodies made from wood . The J.T. Cantrell CO. of Huntington , long island, NY used these patterns to speed up production work that they got contracts to do by providing station wagons for car manufacturers. Cantrell had a major contract with General Motors and chassis as well as 2 door sedans and business coupes were shipped down from the Tarrytown,NY assembly plant to the Cantrell Body plant and the coupe and sedan bodies remove just above the windshield, keeping the cowl,firewall/dashboard and windshield in tact. Then Cantrell added the bodies, leaving a field full of discarded removed bodies that were then scrapped.

[alsancle]

[twin6]

[John S.]

On 3/21/2021 at 6:37 PM, 30DodgePanel said:

 

One would think but Chrysler publicly ordered the Graham Brother name removed as of Jan/Feb 1929 so maybe dealerships were instructed to not use Graham trucks? 

What surprises me about it is why not have a Dodge Brothers wrecker like the one below? 

 

 

 

Any idea where this Dodge Dealer was located? I reminds me of some older buildings that were dealerships here on Long Island.

[nzcarnerd]

On 3/22/2021 at 2:40 AM, alsancle said:

This there is really a 427 under that hood or a straight six?

 

The plate tells us the Camaro was registered in East Suffolk (UK) in about April of 1969.

 

Originally registered as being 7793 cc (!!) (which translates to 475 cid) - GOV.UK - Display Vehicle (vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk)

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[30DodgePanel]

1 hour ago, John S. said:

Any idea where this Dodge Dealer was located? I reminds me of some older buildings that were dealerships here on Long Island.

 

Lancaster Ave @ Church Rd in Ardmore PA was one of the used car dealerships now a Napa Auto Parts store. This original dealership building was located less than a half a block from that intersection but is now a open parking lot. The Napa is still on that corner according to maps.

 

Here's another angle showing the original Ardmore ph #.

Edited March 24, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[30DodgePanel]

3 minutes ago, Dave Gelinas (XP-300) said:

 

30 Dodge panel in the center of photo with what appears to be a bright color (yellow?) for the body.

 

 

[30DodgePanel]

Found on the web,.. 

Anyone recognize the city?

 

[BucketofBolts]

I really like Dave's image of the 1950s convertible with the young ladies talking to five much older men who all would like to think of themselves as being age 35 when they are all in their late 50s and early 60s. The girls are likely discussing how dirty the shoes are on the old man with the white hat.

[Gary_Ash]

1 hour ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Found on the web,.. 

Anyone recognize the city?

 

How about Istanbul?