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Period images to relieve some of the stress


Walt G

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1 hour ago, ericmac said:

I am thinking this is a rare one. A custom bodied Studebaker? Anyone know for sure? I'm basing that guess on the S on the sidemount hubcap. 

With a rear spring set up like that, no splash apron and right hand drive?  Not Studebaker.

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Here is  a Studebaker, from a page on coated stock paper that was torn from something for the image many years ago by someone.

Many years ago a friend here on long island named Hank Fritz had a Studebaker like this - magnificent car.

 

STUDEbaker1928sedan001.jpg

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2 hours ago, ericmac said:

I am thinking this is a rare one. A custom bodied Studebaker? Anyone know for sure? I'm basing that guess on the S on the sidemount hubcap. 

The exposed, cantilevered rear springs are a tell-tale its Rolls-Royce, either late Silver Ghost or New Phantom (I).  Although the coachbuilder may have been Brewster, the design is LeBaron.  It started as the Prince of Wales sedan with the vertical coach pillar molding, curved lower front door corner and the distinct ~3-1-2 window/quarters proportions.  One of Ray Dietrich's major contributions to the art of custom coachbuilding design was to notice the side windows of near equal size were visually static and boring.   By varying the proportional size of each mass, the design became more interesting and visually satisfying.  There is no hard and fast rule, frequently it was ~3-2-1 with the window proportions, front door the widest, passenger door 3/4 the dimension, the roof quarters 1/2 the dimension.   There was also ~2.5-2.5-0.5 proportions for the sport sedans seen on the Packard and REO Royale Newport sport sedans and Stutz Weymann Monte Carlos.   

 

The Rolls-Royce here appears to be an English chassis, the full-collapsible town car style was referred to as a cabriolet de ville.  Barker also built this design both as a sedan and the town car.  Usually English coachbuilders still covered the door cut-line with ribbed edge to overlap the opening.  

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4 hours ago, ericmac said:

I am thinking this is a rare one. A custom bodied Studebaker? Anyone know for sure? I'm basing that guess on the S on the sidemount hubcap. 

A Rolls Royce Phantom I , though could be a very late Ghost and I am not brushed up on differences via what is visible in photo (and I believe the photo to be outside of the United States and car to be an English chassis) .  The  lady on the right certainly does look like Amelia Earhart 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, alsancle said:

I hope all you guys have been to the pickle factory?    My dad has great Glenn Pray stories.   Most of you should know the story of the school teacher who was able to buy out the Auburn Cord part of the ACD factory from Dallas Winslow in 1960.    I've always liked these and if one of the turbo stick cars fell in my lap I might not be too proud to be seen in it.

GlenPray.jpg

Friends had the supposed "test crash" car they used for certification - it was a turbo Corvair and possibly had an even more "hopped" up engine  - it was short lived as it was just a "wild beast" that could not be tamed enough for a 80 something year old to continue in car hobby - we replaced it with a 40 Mercury Coupe. 

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5 hours ago, ericmac said:

I am thinking this is a rare one. A custom bodied Studebaker? Anyone know for sure? I'm basing that guess on the S on the sidemount hubcap. 

 

The cantilever spring says it is a Rolls-Royce. Added to that it has right hand drive.

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Here is a puzzlement.  The automobile with the pedestrian catcher has a state of Maryland license plate, and the script mounted on the radiator says "Baltimore".  The state capital of Maryland is the city of Baltimore.  The photo looks like it dates from the late teens or early 1920s.  The radiator of the car somewhat resembles a Packard.  ?  A short Wikipedia article presents information about a "Maryland" automobile that was manufactured by Sinclair-Scott Company from 1907-1910 in Baltimore, Maryland.  Only 871 cars were produced by the time production stopped in 1910.  The car in the photo has left-side steering and does not seem to date from the 07-10 time period.  Thus far no photo of an actual Baltimore car has come to light, while the Wikipedia article carries a photo of a 1906 Ariel and says that it is technically identical to a Maryland.  The problem being that the 1906 Ariel looks nothing like the car bearing the Baltimore script and the Maryland car was out of production before this photo was taken of the Baltimore car.

Baltimore 1920s-pedestrian-catcher-3.jpg

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7 minutes ago, LCK81403 said:

Here is a puzzlement.  The automobile with the pedestrian catcher has a state of Maryland license plate, and the script mounted on the radiator says "Baltimore".  The state capital of Maryland is the city of Baltimore.  The photo looks like it dates from the late teens or early 1920s.  The radiator of the car somewhat resembles a Packard.  ?  A short Wikipedia article presents information about a "Maryland" automobile that was manufactured by Sinclair-Scott Company from 1907-1910 in Baltimore, Maryland.  Only 871 cars were produced by the time production stopped in 1910.  The car in the photo has left-side steering and does not seem to date from the 07-10 time period.  Thus far no photo of an actual Baltimore car has come to light, while the Wikipedia article carries a photo of a 1906 Ariel and says that it is technically identical to a Maryland.  The problem being that the 1906 Ariel looks nothing like the car bearing the Baltimore script and the Maryland car was out of production before this photo was taken of the Baltimore car.

Baltimore 1920s-pedestrian-catcher-3.jpg

It IS a Packard. Here is a 1918 Packard....

1918 Packard.jpg

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9 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Surprised no one mentioned the Dodge dealership had a '20's Pierce-Arrow sedan converted into their tow truck.  One would suppose they might have had a Graham Brothers truck for that purpose.   

 

One would think but Chrysler publicly ordered the Graham Brother name removed as of Jan/Feb 1929 so maybe dealerships were instructed to not use Graham trucks? 


What surprises me about it is why not have a Dodge Brothers wrecker like the one below? 

 

image.thumb.png.11f23193d05c375c59aa84903c191f20.png

 

 

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This is a real treat ;  Put this on full screen.  There is a Duesenberg pulling from a parking spot, there are 6 (if not more) RRP1's, a Lincoln Panel Brougham, several great Packards (near countless Formal Sedans), Lincolns, Cadillac's, Buicks, Checkers, Fords, a Pierce Arrow with freestanding headlamps and a PA Brunn ? Town car at 7:03, and .... even spotted like a Plymouth Town Car (a rarity), a Chrysler Town Car, an Airflow,  

 

 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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I looked at the movie (NY City). Observed clearly 4 (four) 1938 Lincoln K cars. Two were factory 145 Inch LWB "K" cars (of which only 78 were produced in 1938 base price $5,100) while 2 were 145 inch LWB Limousines (of which only 46 were produced in 1938 base price $6,200).   Truly amazing how many of these vehicles were in this short movie. Also it appears that almost every 3rd par is a Packard. 

 

The neighborhood is fancy however. No poor souls living in that neighborhood back in 1938 and almost all wealthy residents in this same area now. 

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13 minutes ago, BucketofBolts said:

I looked at the movie (NY City). Observed clearly 4 (four) 1938 Lincoln K cars. Two were factory 145 Inch LWB "K" cars (of which only 78 were produced in 1938 base price $5,100) while 2 were 145 inch LWB Limousines (of which only 46 were produced in 1938 base price $6,200).   Truly amazing how many of these vehicles were in this short movie. Also it appears that almost every 3rd par is a Packard. 

 

The neighborhood is fancy however. No poor souls living in that neighborhood back in 1938 and almost all wealthy residents in this same area now. 

I wouldnt know 1 car from another, although I would bet that the delivery truck was electric. I did recognize the Duesenburg. As far as the quality of automobile, I would imagine that if this street is still 'high end' there is an disproportionate number of Lincolns (town cars) to others.

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On 3/21/2021 at 9:08 AM, ericmac said:

I am thinking this is a rare one. A custom bodied Studebaker? Anyone know for sure? I'm basing that guess on the S on the sidemount hubcap. 

Just a curiosity, is that a light at the windshield pillar or a MOT badge. I know the early brit bikes had the round MOT discs on them.

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Posted (edited)

New York City had a very active Lincoln dealership in the 1930s - Theodore Luce.  All his activity was "midtown", which is the area around 59th street at the bottom edge of Central Park. "Automobile Row " was from the mid fifties ( 55th street/Broadway ) and most of the automobile repair and coach builders were on the west side on 11th Ave. ( that ran north and south) .

Rolls Royce had a three story showroom at 58th and 8th Avenue . They had a sale usually every September ( middle to the end of the month) and were open Saturday and Sunday , including evenings . RR also issued a sales folder trying to sell the "Used cars" they had. These included RR but also a lot of hi end luxury cars like Locomobile, Crane Simplex, H.C.S., Wills St. Claire, Pierce Arrow , Lancia , Panhard etc. I have that sales folder and it is quite a statement on what cars they took in on trade and wanted to resell - prices ranged from $875 to $10,900.  This was circa 1928.

OK so some of my friends are reading this and thinking , Walt has some weird stuff. Yes, indeed I do, and it is an on going pleasure to share it here with all of you.

Edited by Walt G
typo (see edit history)
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Wonderful videos, so many rare luxury cars!   Does anyone have the capability to do screen capture stills?  If so, we'd all loved to be able to see if we could identify those coach-built cars more closely.

 

In addition to all those Checkers taxis are the GM Yellow Truck and Coach Division taxis cabs that look like an amalgamation of GM car components. 

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Walt, when you have the time, please share more of these car-for-sale ads.  This is really interesting material.  When I sold my '35 Terraplane I left the 1935 newspaper in the trunk for the new owner, but I wish now that I had kept it.  It was a section of a Minneapolis newspaper that had the used car ads, and that made for savory reading.  This photo that you posted is really wonderful.

McFARLANrds.thumb.jpg.d022062ca49f28f95ecdf53470187d88.jpg

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2 hours ago, TAKerry said:

I wouldnt know 1 car from another, although I would bet that the delivery truck was electric. I did recognize the Duesenburg. As far as the quality of automobile, I would imagine that if this street is still 'high end' there is an disproportionate number of Lincolns (town cars) to others.

I WAS THINKING THE TRUCK WAS ELECTRIC TOO.

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2 hours ago, Dave Gelinas (XP-300) said:

B&w 1950's Downyflake Donuts.jpg

This is the most well known of Vancouver's chain of Aristocratic restaurants,which was  located at the intersection of Granville and Smithe.

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Posted (edited)

Henry Austin Clark Jr. liked the Simplex automobiles so much that back in the mid 1950s he traced the company history  to see who owned the rights to build a Simplex car. He found that information and purchased the name etc. to do so. Talk about being enthusiastic about a specific make of car! Many may not know but Austin was a lawyer, graduated from Harvard and was in the same graduating  class as John F. Kennedy.

Edited by Walt G (see edit history)
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For some of you , period accessories should be justified in print from material of the era the accessory was offered. Here is one way to justify the addition of this accessory that will set you apart from the rest of the crowd . It is from a catalog issued in 1935 by the W.S. Darley & Company of Chicago. "Buyers Guide No. 103", to be exact. Has some rather interesting other equipment as well. Mostly for use by law enforcement types.

Even has some period clothing  like Regulation Strait Jackets who had a 3% discount with cash or money order for shipment! 🙄

BULLETproofwindshield1935001.jpg

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Did Crane Simplex custom build their cars, similar to the Kissel custom builds?  Rummaging around in my Simplex photos there is a '15 and a '16 sedans that closely resemble Walt's Simplex ad, but there are detail differences among them.  Walt's undated Simplex shows a body bead running length-wise from the hood to the rear of the rear door which is a feature not shown on the '15 and '16 Simplex's.  Custom body work by Simplex or different body manufactures?

 

15 Simplex-Crane Model 5 Sport Berline by Brewster 01-02.jpg

16 Simplex-Crane.jpg

Crane Simplex 7 passenger sedan.jpg

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Austin was a lot of fun.............

 

 

And a Crane-Simplex is a fantastic car. One of my favorite platforms of the era. One of the few cars I would like to add to my list of 'have owned" cars.

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Posted (edited)

Since Simplex , like Kissel was a lower production /volume car, most bodies were not built by Simplex - they would get small ( 5 or less) production runs of the more popular body styles ( open and enclosed) and did not really have their own assembly line body section as we are accustomed to seeing photos of. The Budd Co. of Philadelphia and Fleetwood , also of Pa. would do small production runs. Derham built enclosed bodies for the Fox car made in Philadelphia. The Healey Company would also supply bodies.  Brewster did some limited production run coachwork as well. All of these could be ordered / altered to suit particular customers needs - moldings added, special interiors : cloth, leather, woodwork, hardware.

Another article/story that needs to be addressed and told based on period printed matter , especially periodicals that were sold to the industry and not available to the general public on the news stands. They had sections in those magazine  detailing what employees moved from where to where regarding coach builders, and when you know that , you can see why some cars took on a bit of the flavor of another make styling wise . Designers and stylists were in a sense in competition, even within one corporation like General Motors. The assorted G.M. divisions did not want one make under their umbrella looking at what the other division was doing ideas wise - I got this first hand in conversation with a G.M. designer who was there in the early 1950s. Remember it was an era of hand drawn images, using french curves and rulers, and slide rules for calculations . No computers to tap a key to get something created on a screen.

Many stories will not be told or recorded because some clubs do not have the room in their publications for such, I was told that "it is hard to find 4 pages" in one publication in particular. But there is still some hope yet in a new quarterly magazine coming out of New England.

Edited by Walt G (see edit history)
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17 hours ago, Walt G said:

This is an example from the ca. 1928 R-R New York dealership sales folder of Used cars.

Great stuff, Walt!  Here's a better look. 

 

Although both the Simplex, Crane Model 5 and the McFarlan were among the most exclusive, high-quality and expensive motorcars of the period, but as used cars they were still a problem to resell.  Out-of-production nameplates plummeted to pennies on the dollar.  Pure conjecture, but the Rolls-Royce dealer knew that McFarlan as an automaker was on its last legs in 1928, hoped to move that roadster before potential customer shied away by the prospect of owning an 'orphan' car.    Those who could afford the $2,800-$3,000 prices for a used luxury car prudently headed for their Packard dealer to negotiate purchase of a used 243 or 343...or a 236 Sport Touring!   

McFARLAN roadster - used car advert.jpg

'15-'19 Crane Simplex 7 passenger sedan - used car advert.jpg

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23 minutes ago, twin6 said:

I believe Brewster built the bodies on the 2 limousines in the color/modern photos posted by LCK81403.

 

You are correct, as I have worked on one of them.  👍

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