Pierce limousine and Packard LeBaron prewar cars in postwar era

[Walt G]

Although the photos are b & w and of classic cars they weren't taken when the cars were new or even pre WWII. With limited space in our fine magazine the Antique Automobile , perhaps 

readers would still enjoy seeing them posted here. The photo of the Packard LeBaron coupe from 1934 was taken in 1950,( nearly 70 years ago)  parked on the street as it was being used

every day to go to work by its original owner Mr. Davidoff of Roslyn, N.Y. . John Linhardt of Florida an AACA member owned the car for decades and it now resides in the Bahre collection in Maine.

The 1929 Pierce Arrow limousine with right hand drive is pictured in England, when owned in the mid to late 1960s ( over 50 years ago) by Harry C.G. Shell , who was the Chairman

of the Classic American Auto Club of Great Britain. The car was sold to someone in France in the very early 1970s and I do not know of its current location or owner. Note the Pierce Arrow has the

headlamps mounted on a bar and not in the front fenders as was their trademark.  Fender mounted headlamps in England at the time were in violation of traffic laws.

 

 

[STEVE POLLARD]

Great pictures Walt..... I really like the body lines of the LeBaron Coupe ! 

 

Steve

[Walt G]

Steve

I had the pleasure of riding in that Packard coupe several times in the early 1970s . Once up and back to the old HCCA Fairfield County Region car meet held in Ridgefield, Ct. WOW that car rides nice and is very very fast. Of all the Packard LeBaron bodied V12 cars with the pontoon fenders made in 1934 I think the coupe has to be the most spectacular in appearance. the owner of the car at the time John Linhardt was one of the nicest most down to earth guys I ever met , a real car enthusiast.

Walt

[58L-Y8]

Thanks Walt for sharing these images from the time when they were still simply old cars with a degree of collector appreciation.   For the Packard LeBaron coupe, its feels like a 'before they became famous' with car collectors in general and extremely valuable.  How fortunate we are there were individuals then who could perceive the intrinsic value in those cars and took the efforts to preserve them. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

I remember when the magazine Special Interest Autos

would publish groups of photographs showing what was

parked on the streets in the early years.  The pictures,

taken as a group, gave a good representation of what

people were using as their ordinary cars--cars which today

might be very desirable.

 

Thank you, Walt, for sharing these!

[JV Puleo]

To add to Walt G's post... this experimental PII Rolls Royce, 25EX, taken in New York around 1949.

 

[edinmass]

Last summer while up in Maine, I was fortunate to be able to help out with a very small issue on the Packard. It’s just simply a great car. Last I knew of the Pierce Arrow it had made its way back to England and was well hidden and up on blocks. But that was thirty years ago, and the information may have been suspect. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Probably not post war.......but it’s the only interesting photo I had that Walt may not be familiar with. Anyone have the J number and I’d the body?

 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

How about this one. The picture was taken in 1953...probably in the Boston area.

 

[Walt G]

Hey Ed, nope I had not seen that photo before or a photo of that car "in the era" or at least near the era it was built.

 

Also that is a Wonderful photo of the PII R-R. John Inskip had assorted service dealerships in New York City , several on the upper East side a few blocks away from the Hudson River.

as of about a decade ago the buildings he was in looked very much the same and had little change. Inskip was a salesman for Locomobile in NY City at one point in his career

in the early to mid 1920s as well.

This is turning into a excellent post of period photographs of classic cars even if they are not necessarily exactly during the era they were built.

That Pierce Arrow limousine by the way was also owned by Peter B. Moore of Sussex, England who was a long time member of CCCA . He was a great friend ( I was introduced to him by another friend the historian Mike Sedgwick) and Peter and his wife Rita came over here in 1988 and attended the AACA Fall meet at Hershey with me. I am restoring a wood carousel ( they call them fair ground rides in England) motorcycle  made just into the  post WWII era that Peter and I found on one of our numerous trips to antique stores on the south coast of England. I got that very heavy wood motorcycle back here to the states by paying extra $ as carry on luggage! It had to go into the hold of the airplane . It is about 3/4 the size of a real motorcycle.

[1937hd45]

Thanks Walt, this will become a fine thread, I'm sure I walked past the Packard while it was at the Ridgefield Meet, I'll look to see if I took a photo of it. Bob 

[edinmass]

59 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

How about this one. The picture was taken in 1953...probably in the Boston area.

 

 

 

One of the six Beverly’s built.........if memory serves me correct. Notice the lack of “junk” also known as accessories that are NOT on the car.......no lights, mirrors, side mount covers, mascot............notice also no chrome wire wheels. Car has great lines and an excellent look. Today there would probably be a ton of trash bolted on it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[C Carl]

And then too, there is the frightening potential for a high quality repaint in garish incorrect colors.   -   Carl 

[Walt G]

Ed

the first Beverly sedan I ever saw was when my parents took me to the auction of the cars on the Wallis Bird  estate in Oyster Bay on long island over 55+  years ago when I was a kid and it is to me the most spectacular looking sedan and one of the best looking Duesenberg's made. At the Bird estate auction Austin Clark showed up in a PI Springfield R-R and bought the type 35 Bugatti race car that Bird owned.

There were also a pair of 1938 Buick sedans there too, near mint original cars , I guess bought by Bird for the hired help to use but if they did they didn't drive them much .

 

Bob

thanks for the compliment, I appreciate that . I am glad that I posted the photos here so the membership could see them and they are being received favorably and that others have made the effort to share their great photos as well.

Walt

[58L-Y8]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

Probably not post war.......but it’s the only interesting photo I had that Walt may not be familiar with. Anyone have the J number and I’d the body?

 

 

According to Fred Roe's book, that is car 2457, J450 with body by Bohman and Schwartz, possibly restyled from a Murphy limousine.   It bears an unfortunate resemblance to Father Divine "Throne Car", which I like to refer to as "Father Divine's Duesenberg Bus!"   Bohman and Schwartz bodies have none of the svelte, lithe elegance of their predecessor Walter Murphy efforts.  

[JV Puleo]

Here's another. A Packard Waterhouse Convertible Victoria, taken at Lars Anderson around 1950. The owner was Arthur Mellor. Arthur lived at the foot of Wilbur Road in Lincoln RI and he still owned this car when I was in my early 20s. I attended my first old car show with him - he invited me and my friend David Houghton (who lived up the hill from him) to the show not bothering to tell us that he was in charge and that he needed extra help. I think we spent mot of the time there collecting money and handing out the door prizes. I was about 19 at the time and bought my 27 Cadillac a few weeks later. The photo is black & white but I think it was beige and cream colored. When I knew it he'd painted it green and yellow. It was about as 70s "Circus Wagon" as you could get. Arthur also had a Model T that I helped him with once or twice - although I know a lot less about Model T's than I do about Silver Ghosts and PI's.

 

Arthur bought this car from a junkyard in Bellingham, MA (I'm not sure of that...it might have been one town over). The junkyard was still there when I was in high school although with nothing like this in the yard. It had been a Hudson dealership at one point and still had all the Hudson signage. There was a 37 or 38 Chrysler coup in the yard with absolutely new looking original paint and interior and a blown engine. I could have had it for $300 but passed because, to my mind, it was too new to be interesting.

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Keep it up everyone this is getting better and better, thank you all so very much for taking the time to share these great period ( nearly so) photographs. To paraphrase the late great Oliver Norville Hardy " here's another fine mess you've gotten us into"  !

Walt

[edinmass]

I have quite a few rare and unusual photos, but most are given or shared with the understanding that they are for private files only and not for publication or posting. Just yesterday I was given a great photo of a well known car from very early in its life......probably the earliest photo of it known......,but am not allowed to share. Here is on that can be posted.......

 

1932 Pierce Arrow Sport Phaeton, New York Show Car, sold off the stand in 1932 to Oceanside on Long Island. Photo was taken in 1951. The car was out of sight for 60 years.

[8E45E]

10 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

It bears an unfortunate resemblance to Father Divine "Throne Car", which I like to refer to as "Father Divine's Duesenberg Bus!"  

I posted a photo of that car here:  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/stove-huggers-the-non-studebaker-forum/50686-orphan-of-the-day-03-10-1937-duesenberg-model-j?49448-Orphan-of-the-Day-03-10-1937-Duesenberg-Model-J=

 

Craig

[8E45E]

16 hours ago, Walt G said:

The 1929 Pierce Arrow limousine with right hand drive is pictured in England, when owned in the mid to late 1960s ( over 50 years ago) by Harry C.G. Shell , who was the Chairman

of the Classic American Auto Club of Great Britain. The car was sold to someone in France in the very early 1970s and I do not know of its current location or owner. Note the Pierce Arrow has the

headlamps mounted on a bar and not in the front fenders as was their trademark.  Fender mounted headlamps in England at the time were in violation of traffic laws.

 

 

 

I guess this is PROOF! 

Craig

 

 

[trimacar]

I, and others, have researched the bracket headlights on Pierce automobiles.

 

The common misconception is that New York outlawed the fender headlights.  There is absolutely no evidence of this that can be found.  The closest thing is a law in New York City that was passed concerning the distance between driving lights, but even that is suspect (as in not enforced), I have period photographs of fender light Pierces in New York City.

 

So, while it makes a cute story, the consensus from those who've researched it, it's simply not true.  The bracket lights were simply an option, for a customer who wanted the quality of the Pierce automobile but did not want the fender lights.  Even today, some people don't like them, so it was natural that was the case back then also.

[JV Puleo]

One of my favorites. A 1911 Pierce Arrow was taken in Brookline in 1949. Identified as the property of Miss Lyons of Wakefield, MA. She may have been the original owner. I doubt it's restored. I think the picture was taken on the day the Lars Anderson Museum opened.

 

[Gary_Ash]

JV Puleo:  The junk yard/car dealer in Bellingham was probably Bellingham Auto Sales.  Part of the junkyard may still be there, the building on the lot still has some Hudsons in the window.  

Here is the link to the current operation with many antiques, mostly Hudsons:  http://www.bellinghamautosales.com/

 

[JV Puleo]

Yes...I think that is it. I haven't been by there in years but, oddly enough, I'm in Woonsocket so just down the road.

[60FlatTop]

That's Ed Moore's place. He and Ed Moriarty helped my daughter with car needs when she first moved to Boston, Hudson and Nash guys.

 

Her first winter some plow truck hit the rear door of her of her Roadmaster. I called Ed Moore to see if he could help. He asked what color door I needed. He hung the door, had the body shop down the street paint it, and she was god to go.

http://www.bellinghamautosales.com/

 

 

[JV Puleo]

An Iron head PI Newmarket. This was taken on Cape Cod, I think in 1948. It has the later bumpers and tool boxes so it was probably updated by RR of America at some point. I think the only aluminum head cars with drum headlights were the FR series in 1929 and they had the tubular bumpers as well. (I could be wrong about that, its been a very long time since I was working on RRs...but I had S193FR with drum headlights and it was a 29.

 

[JV Puleo]

1911 Silver Ghost with wooden wheels rebodied in the 1920s. To my eye it looks like an American body. Picture was taken by the Charles River in Cambridge in October of 1949. I'll bet the car sill exists but that this body was replaced long ago. In a sense, that is really too bad because an important part of it's history has probably been erased.

 

 

 

[md murray]

Just a fun old used car 1949!

 

[md murray]

And a gathering of great used cars at Wolfpen Farm oct 11 1942 over in Southboro, MA.

[John_Mereness]

On 11/17/2019 at 8:37 PM, edinmass said:

 

 

One of the six Beverly’s built.........if memory serves me correct. Notice the lack of “junk” also known as accessories that are NOT on the car.......no lights, mirrors, side mount covers, mascot............notice also no chrome wire wheels. Car has great lines and an excellent look. Today there would probably be a ton of trash bolted on it. 

 

 

 

 

Ed, I almost totally agree, excepting there are a reason why metal sidemount covers were made and that reason was that exposed metal covers better integrated the spare tires into the car allowing for a more "modern' look.  I also think 1930 and 1931 Cadillac's look particularly good dripping with "junk" on them (all be it welcome to see one on occasion with no to few accessories). 

 

I always wondered when I saw a Duesenberg pictured with painted wire wheels - obviously chrome wire wheels may not have appealed to everyone. For RR PI's they spoke of stainless wire wheels (never seen an original unrestored set so no idea of how made - and apparently they only made it to a few cars).  J330 had original chrome wire wheels on it - and do not recall if stainless spokes or chrome spokes or if factory chrome or previously replated, though I do recall the the underlying metal finishing "look" around rim nipples was nowhere near the quality of what would be considered acceptable today and I felt that was original.  On this particular Beverley though, I am leaning toward the wire wheels being painted due to the chrome finish not holding up and I say that as the lock rings are also painted. 

 

The Beverly also sports Martin brand double whitewalls (the little shield on the whitewall I believe represents the Martin logo). 

Edited November 21, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

Sidenote:  I thought some of the best articles ever run by Special Interest Autos were just series of photos of CCCA cars spotted on the streets post WWII, including RR cars parked outside Inskips. What I particularly liked was see that photo matched to knowing the car in the 70's to today. 

[Walt G]

WOW, I am most pleased to see this post reach the level of contributions it has, both with images as well as comments - totally unexpected ( but I admit had hoped for some people to want to discuss)

and all about photos of pre war classics taken post war but not in posed lines of cars at car shows, just being used on the road! It was my whole point in wanting the two I had to be viewed by one and all. Glad the forum had the room to accommodate this as a viable part of the history of the cars.

[JV Puleo]

7 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

For RR PI's they spoke of stainless wire wheels (never seen an original unrestored set so no idea of how made - and apparently they only made it to a few cars). 

 

 

I've seen one set, on a late PI Avon. I went with my friend EA Mowbray to look at it. It was a wreck - a real "barn find" if ever there was one but he liked it and bought it. It had 4 stainless wheels on the ground - the spare wheels were missing. A few days later someone that had herd about the car called him and offered him more money than he'd paid for the car, plus a set of six normal wheels. I don't think he sold them but he did eventually sell the car.

Edited November 19, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

It's always interesting to hear what cars were 

around in a given year.

 

A older friend of mine still has a 1918 Cadillac

touring car which he rescued from a junkyard in

April 1939, when he was a freshman at Dartmoth

College.  Also there were a 1914 dual-windscreen

Rolls-Royce, a gas-lighted Pierce mountain wagon,

and a 1920 Stutz Bearcat, he says.  Such were the

choices in a New Hampshire junkyard 80 years ago.

 

The 1918 Cadillac had only 33,000 miles in 1939,

and it happened to run fine but fired on only 7 of 8

cylinders.  Evidently a 21-year-old luxury car was

outdated, or not worth repairing, by that time,

and was resigned to junk status.

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Walt G]

that Pierce mountain wagon may have eventually wound up in the collection of Walter McCarthy in Huntington, NY who had one that came (i believe) from there for many years.. Not sure who he sold it to some years ago.

[JV Puleo]

1919 Lancia, picture taken at Lars Anderson in October of 1949.

 

 

 

[alsancle]

Ok,  my contribution,  which I'm sure I have posted before.

[JV Puleo]

Here's one for AJ...

I just realized that the Lars Anderson Museum opened on October 15, 1949. Many of the photos I have were taken there between 1949 and about 1955. The gentleman who collected them lived in Cambridge.

 

[edinmass]

All Model J Duesenbergs came standard with painted wire wheels. As far as Springfield Rolls Royce Phantom 1’s, only three cars came from the factory with stainless wire wheels.......one was the last new Ascot body built, placed on an earlier chassis, but got the stainless wires before the car was shipped......probably just to get rid of them as all production was ending. 
 

As to putting all the bling on a 30-31 Cadillac...........🤮

 

Here is a great photo from 1947......taken from a movie.......

[edinmass]

Not a barn find........a “field” find. The car has been restored...............one of the top body styles ever produced.