Pierce limousine and Packard LeBaron prewar cars in postwar era

[alsancle]

3 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

1935 Packard Twelve, picture taken in 1951.   I am very blessed to have this car in my garage.   I've shared this photo before here, but seems to fit this thread, too.

 

Please note your grandfather had taste in cars and tires too.

[edinmass]

3 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

1935 Packard Twelve, picture taken in 1951.   I am very blessed to have this car in my garage.   I've shared this photo before here, but seems to fit this thread, too.

 

 

 

 

A great running and driving car, that I have had the privilidge to drive. A properly sorted and driving V-12............about one in twenty five heavy iron cars  are set up correctly, and this one is. The fact it's a family car is fantastic.

[Walt G]

Thank you for sharing this photo, I had not seen it before and very glad you posted it again in this thread. Magnificent car and the fact it has been in the family for some time is just that much better. Ed I totally agree, about one in 25 heavy iron cars are set up properly and run as when new. A close friend Lew Smith,  owned a 1935 Packard 12 with Brewster coachwork that was bought by financier E. F. Hutton for his wife Marjorie Post ( of Post cereal family) it was here on long island and  Lew was perhaps only the 2nd or 3rd owner. An amazing original car with the body transferred from Mrs. Hutton's Phantom 1 R-R to the Packard. when new. The car is now owned by another friend Ron Verschoor in Ca. . The 1927 style coachwork on a 1935 chassis is what people of wealth did then, it represents the people at that time and their mind set.

GREAT photo of your Packard convertible!!!!!

[alsancle]

We should start a thread about all the things you need to do to set a car up properly.   It is endless and requires you to drive the crap out of the car.

[60FlatTop]

Pretty close.

 

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mo17/monterey/lots/r173-1934-packard-twelve-phaeton/430351

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

On 11/24/2019 at 10:20 AM, edinmass said:

Everyone loves a parade...........
 

Lots of great details..........dual spot lights and wind wings......

Single Piolet Ray..........

Fantastic front plate frame/bracket.....

Side mount covers......White walls.......

Rear windshield folded down.........

White/tan top boot with dark leather piping........

 

What are "all the things everyone claims to hate on old cars" Alex?

[John_Mereness]

23 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

Pretty close.

 

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mo17/monterey/lots/r173-1934-packard-twelve-phaeton/430351

 

Yes, pretty close - I always thought the photo was of a Twelve and then upon closer look I noticed the chrome strips around the runningboard edges and hubcaps - all be it hard to see hubcaps clearly given lighting/angle (it's a very well optioned Super Eight). 

[PFindlay]

This 1919 Pierce Arrow Suburban Limo belongs to a friend of mine.  The picture was taken when he brought it from New York to the West Coast in 1975.  Other projects took priority for a few years (like 40+) but he's finally going on it now.

 

 

[60FlatTop]

I'm still thinking that is a 1960's picture. There were a couple of collectors that "accessorized" the older cars at the time. I'm think like George Staley who had cars at events in upstate New York, still couple in Norwich. My Dad and I started going to a few shows in the early '60's and those glitzzed ones stool out in the wide range of 30 year old cars at the time, good parade stuff. I remember seeing the lesser cars on the rough side, sheet metal patches screwed on, stuff like that. I see what looks like bald tires as well. They are good enough to run down RT 20. We'd regroove a set like that. My Uncle Eddie was great with a hand grooving iron.

 

What stands out to me is the quality of the film for that picture. I have been devouring car books, magazines, and any literature since 1959, eating hamburgers that long too. I can tell when either is a little off. Nice car. Do you think anyone would go to the trouble of putting an accessory foot light on a car?

 

Bernie

[1937hd45]

Can anyone ID the motorcycle in the Packard photo? Clothing and white shoes make me think this was taken in the 1930's. Bob 

[Walt G]

George Staley did collect cars and most of them are in the museum in Norwich, NY but he did not start collecting heavily until the late 1970s at least. He got involved with Franklins first and then expanded his interest.

I was involved in running the Franklin Club annual meet in 1972-74 and he was not there at that time.

[1935Packard]

6 hours ago, Walt G said:

Thank you for sharing this photo, I had not seen it before and very glad you posted it again in this thread. Magnificent car and the fact it has been in the family for some time is just that much better. Ed I totally agree, about one in 25 heavy iron cars are set up properly and run as when new. A close friend Lew Smith,  owned a 1935 Packard 12 with Brewster coachwork that was bought by financier E. F. Hutton for his wife Marjorie Post ( of Post cereal family) it was here on long island and  Lew was perhaps only the 2nd or 3rd owner. An amazing original car with the body transferred from Mrs. Hutton's Phantom 1 R-R to the Packard. when new. The car is now owned by another friend Ron Verschoor in Ca. . The 1927 style coachwork on a 1935 chassis is what people of wealth did then, it represents the people at that time and their mind set.

GREAT photo of your Packard convertible!!!!!

 

Thanks, Walt.  I'd just add that Ron got the deal of the century on that car, it seems to me, when it was up for auction, I believe with no reserve.  It is an awesome car:

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/sj12/st--john-s/lots/r129-1935-packard-twelve-close-coupled-limousine-by-brewster/280618

[Walt G]

I spent some considerable time in that car with Lew Smith. Amazing originality.  It was here on long island its whole existence . Lew offered to sell me the car but at the time $ and space were not available! I had bought a car from Lew previously  - a 1927 RR Phantom I Trouville town car. Loved that car too but after 10 years finally admitted I was to tall to drive it, my legs were to long, chauffeurs were not tall people! Thanks so much for the reply.

[zipdang]

The attire and hair of the women in the car and crowd certainly looks more 1930 than 1960 to me in the parade car.

[alsancle]

Orin, if that was the car at St Johns that is I'm thinking of, I was talking to a friend just after the sale that had bought it and felt so bad for the owner that he sold it back to him.

Edited November 26, 2019 by alsancle
grammar (see edit history)

[edinmass]

13 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Orin, if that was the car at St Johns that is thinking of I was talking to a friend just after the sale that had bought that car and felt so bad for the owner that he sold it back to him.

 

It’s an interesting car......but one can understand why it sold for next to nothing. That said, where do you buy a one off Packard 12 for that kind of money?

[packard12man]

Just a follow up to Ed's posting on the "'34 Field Find".  Been a fan of v windshield dietrichs for many years.  A short story about one of my luckiest days in the hobby.  I attended a show 10 or so years ago at Gilmore Museum - this car was not entered in the show but the owner had taken it out of the museum to give it some exercise.  The car was parked off on its own in a great spot to get photos.  I grabbed my lawn chair and camera and off I went to admire the car!  An hour or so later the owner came by and we had a brief chat.  I guess he could see the passion in my eyes and before I knew it he threw me the keys and said "Why don't you take it for a drive"  Not very often a commoner gets to drive around in a 7 figure car!  Needless to say - this was a thrill of a lifetime!!!!  I realized on my way back that I had to find a passerby in order to take a couple of photos of me in the car.  I figured my wife and fellow car buffs would not believe me!  Must of been the luck of the Irish that day!  One of 4 originally built.

 

 

[1935Packard]

56 minutes ago, edinmass said:

t’s an interesting car......but one can understand why it sold for next to nothing. That said, where do you buy a one off Packard 12 for that kind of money?

 

The roof is rather ungainly.  But with the originality,  known history, and its one-off status, I think it's super cool.  Of course, they don't call me 1935Packard for nothing.

Edited November 25, 2019 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[Walt G]

You have to see that 35 Brewster bodied Packard in person to really appreciate it. No it is not every ones cup of tea, but is a perfect example of a body that suited the original owner and when a newer chassis was desired cost was no object so they had it made they way they wanted. It was a great road car too - Lew Smith toured New England in it at least once back in the 1960s. Car had some work done to it by the dealer who bought it - new interior leather ( was tan originally) and belt line being repainted lost the original monogram on the rear doors (EFH) but despite what anyone may think so far as "looks" go it is one car that in my mind " got away" and I would have liked to see reside in my garage. BUT that being said I couldn't be more pleased with who currently owns it!!!!

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

 

The roof is rather ungainly.  But with the originality,  known history, and its one-off status, I think it's super cool.  Of course, they don't call me 1935Packard for nothing.

 

I have often heard people in you profession called many colorful things.........and 1935Packard isn’t one of them......just saying....😎

 

Hopefully someday they will be calling you Mr.Pierce-Arrow...........sure adds a touch of class..............😝

 

 

[JV Puleo]

Since we are on Packards... about 1950

 

[John_Mereness]

17 hours ago, Walt G said:

I spent some considerable time in that car with Lew Smith. Amazing originality.  It was here on long island its whole existence . Lew offered to sell me the car but at the time $ and space were not available! I had bought a car from Lew previously  - a 1927 RR Phantom I Trouville town car. Loved that car too but after 10 years finally admitted I was to tall to drive it, my legs were to long, chauffeurs were not tall people! Thanks so much for the reply.

Interesting, most RR PI (American and English) cars  I have been in tend to be very suited for tall people - once they were behind the drivers seat after doing the monkey thing to get into the car.  My car was suited probably for 6 foot to 6'3" - and any shorter you would have had a bear of a time.  I recall my mom's cousin driving it in the 1970's - he sat on a phone book and had pedal extenders, plus looked between steering wheel and dash - pretty unsafe driving like that too.  

 

My two 25/30 cars were fine too all be it awkward as all out to have part of the front seat basically cut away under you for the gear shift and emergency brake - felt like you were always balancing on a ball (a key reason why I did not like either car and they were just passing through). 

[John_Mereness]

On 11/23/2019 at 6:56 AM, alsancle said:

More from the same batch in 1957.

 

In our "tall" car discussions via the 1935 Packard  - when you walked up to this 1929 Lincoln (3rd car in) it was pretty massive  - I always loved the car as it was outstanding original, but .... - just too tall - and it was probably not full top hat sized, probably only 2" taller than normal sedan verses 3" or so - at least it would fit under an 8" garage door if you held it up all the way.   A lot of Brass cars have same issue, excepting they do not fit under standard garage doors - why there are probably so few surviving sedans - at least with an open car you can fold the windshield and put the top down. 

[Walt G]

John  I have found most limousines, formal sedans and town cars have very little room in the front for the chauffeur - I also had a excellent original 1937 Packard Super 8 limousine that was bought new by F.X. Matt who owned the Utica Club brewery - same thing short in leg room and the vertical seat back for the front compartment due to the division glass just behind did not help at all either.

[edinmass]

Here is a barn find I picked up back in 2001. A one off auto show car from 1933. Pierce V-12 bought new by the Haberle Brewing Family of Syracuse Ny. They kept the car till the war. it had 33k on the clock when I got it. August Busch commissioned the first of the series, and his was armored and had multiple gun cabinets..........Lindbergh kidnapping scared a lot of people with means...........

Edited November 27, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Hupp36]

Well I  would like  to  show  you  mine.

[58L-Y8]

Ed

I remember seeing that '33 Pierce-Arrow V-12 at the Pierce-Arrow Centennial in Buffalo in 2001, its one impressive motorcar.  Were you the owner then?    That Saturday show in Ellicott Square was a once-in-a-life-time, unforgettable experience.

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Ed

I remember seeing that '33 Pierce-Arrow V-12 at the Pierce-Arrow Centennial in Buffalo in 2001, its one impressive motorcar.  Were you the owner then?    That Saturday show in Ellicott Square was a once-in-a-life-time, unforgettable experience.

Yes, it was mine then. I had just found it and got it running for that meet.  Kept it ten years and 8K miles, then a collector assaulted me with his check book and stole it from me. I still miss it. It made quite a splash when I pulled it out of the barn and brought it to the meet. No one knew it existed. Even the “longtime major collectors”, it was fun being the young kid who hit the jackpot.

[JV Puleo]

Type 57 Bugatti with 1951 Massachusetts plates.

 

 

 

[JV Puleo]

Another PII Henley...It might be the same car as shown earlier but in a different location.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alsancle]

Wasn’t one of those owned by a MIT professor for 50 years.

[JV Puleo]

That may be the case...especially as I think that picture was taken at MIT. Also, the nephew of the gentleman who took the pictures told me his uncle taught at MIT.

[alsancle]

I’ll find the story somewhere and post it.

[edinmass]

10 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Another PII Henley...It might be the same car as shown earlier but in a different location.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Current location? 🤔
 

With only four real ones, and it’s not the one up north as that one is original and a different color, that makes the location west coast, mid America, or east coast.

 

 

My bad, the mid America car I was thinking of is a PIII.

Edited November 28, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Google makes things too easy.

 

https://www.conceptcarz.com/profile/9823,11987/1932-rolls-royce-phantom-ii.aspx

 

This Rolls-Royce Phantom II is one of seven Henley Roadsters built by the New York coach building firm, Brewster. When new, such a car cost $21,500.

 

This particular car was first bodied as a town car, not receiving the Henley Roadster body until 1938, when it was purchased by a MIT professor, Dr. Frederick Keyes. Dr. Keyes then owned the car for the next 0 years. A member of the Rolls-Royce Owner's Club, he showed the car at the club's inaugural meet in 1952.

 

In 1953, Dr. Keyes crated the car and returned it to Rolls-Royce in England to have it returned to new condition. The reward was a Best of Show prize at the RROC 1956 National Meet.

 

 

[edinmass]

The PII’s are fantastic cars......but I’m a Springfield chassis kind of guy.........I honestly prefer the P1 driving traits over the PII. Most people would think that insane. And NEVER sell a Springfield Ghost short.......fantastic cars that are very under priced and under rated. 

[58L-Y8]

Ed

 

Your assignment is, as your professors would say, to compare and contrast the driving traits of the Pi and Pii Rolls-Royces, for those of us unlikely ever to have the opportunity to drive either.   

[JV Puleo]

How about this one... Early PI parked on the street in NY. The note on the back just says "near Inskip" and the date 1958.

I'm with Ed on this... I never cared much for the PII. Given a choice I'd prefer a Ghost and then a Springfield PI.

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Very nice looking car, the doors are huge compared to other cars of the era, it would be nice to see a photo of a door open. Nice top are there side curtains or roll up windows? Bob 

[Walt G]

Ok two more for here and sometime soon I will start another thread that will feature some period photographs and images of the Pre WWII era that aren't of classic cars . I am so thankful to all of you who have shared your comments and photographs from your collections and have taken the time to do so ! I thought this would possibly be of some mild interest when I first posted the two photos here because there wasn't room in the AACA magazine like I had hoped there would be for them . BUT I have collected a lot of stuff starting in the early 1960s and it is doing no good just sitting in my cabinets in my archives and library for only me to see. It makes me feel good to share the period material and generate enough interest to get all of you to comment. A great reward from fellow enthusiasts (fellow squirrels?!!!) 

Re the photos here : The photo of the Cord was taken in February of 1956 in Brooklyn, NY scrawled on the back is that the car was an 810 model and it was taken by Herbert Lozier ( Herb Lozier was a prolific builder of scratch built models since the late 1940s and authored several books on building models in the 1950s . He was a master of that craft and I have a scratch built 1925 Packard model he made of a touring car, well detailed with folding top etc. ) note on the Cord that the right front fender has had an encounter with an object that has left its mark!

The second photo is of Don Clairmonte in his 1929 Franklin series 137 seven passenger touring car taken in New York City where he lived and kept the car. He was active in CCCA back in the early 1950s. The car still exists today at one time was in Georgia and belonged to Ann Edy.