Making The Case to Collect a Last Generation Park Ave

[B Jake Moran]

Last generation, to me, is 1997 to 2005.  I don't count overseas production. 

[Y-JobFan]

I think some of the earlier years Ultra's will be the ticket, 1rst and 2nd gen.  Interiors are second to none and the Jaguaresque styling on the 2nd gen is impeccable.  Does anyone remember how stunning the 2nd gens concept car the Essence was in it's original pearl mint before it went to white? 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Y-JobFan (see edit history)

[SBRMD]

10 hours ago, Y-JobFan said:

I think some of the earlier years Ultra's will be the ticket, 1rst and 2nd gen.  Interiors are second to none and the Jaguaresque styling on the 2nd gen is impeccable.  Does anyone remember how stunning the 2nd gens concept car the Essence was in it's original pearl mint before it went to white? 

 

 

I stood and gaped at this car , in the original mint, lengthily and repeatedly at the Chicago Auto Show in McCormick Place.  The '91-'96 PA was a reasonable production interpretation.  But that Essence was a beauty!

[Y-JobFan]

Remember first seeing it in Batavia NY at the Buick National, was so disappointed when it was reintroduced in the pearl white 

[parkertom]

It’s been a while since this post was last commented on. Thought I would chime in. I think these last gen PA and LeSabres are pretty sought after for Buick fans that really liked that era of cars. They are most of what I remember as a younger person and what was new around the time I started driving. I had a 2003 LeSabre that I bought with low mileage in 2013 and used as a daily driver for several years. It’s still going today with over 200k though my father owns it now. They seem to sell quickly when they come up for sale, I guess because most of them are reasonably priced and they have a good reputation. I know some who buy them will do some customizations, etc.
 

When my daughter started driving, I decided to allow her to use my 2013 Enclave and I would find a new daily. Lucked into this 31k mile 2005 Park Avenue Ultra that was being sold by the estate of an elderly owner in May of 2021. Coming up on two years and I have added about 11k miles to the clock. I have always felt that this type of car would be a great daily for me (I don’t commute daily or for long distances since COVID started work from home except one a day or two a week) and it was one the kind of car I would admire when visiting my dad at the dealership as a kid.

 

[JohnD1956]

Thats an impressive car.  My personal taste is for the 1991 to '96 model Ultra. They seem to have disappeared and are rarely sold. It is too bad they suffer from frame rust issues especially in wet weather areas. 

[B Jake Moran]

On 4/23/2023 at 7:25 AM, parkertom said:

It’s been a while since this post was last commented on. Thought I would chime in. I think these last gen PA and LeSabres are pretty sought after for Buick fans that really liked that era of cars. They are most of what I remember as a younger person and what was new around the time I started driving. I had a 2003 LeSabre that I bought with low mileage in 2013 and used as a daily driver for several years. It’s still going today with over 200k though my father owns it now. They seem to sell quickly when they come up for sale, I guess because most of them are reasonably priced and they have a good reputation. I know some who buy them will do some customizations, etc.
 

When my daughter started driving, I decided to allow her to use my 2013 Enclave and I would find a new daily. Lucked into this 31k mile 2005 Park Avenue Ultra that was being sold by the estate of an elderly owner in May of 2021. Coming up on two years and I have added about 11k miles to the clock. I have always felt that this type of car would be a great daily for me (I don’t commute daily or for long distances since COVID started work from home except one a day or two a week) and it was one the kind of car I would admire when visiting my dad at the dealership as a kid.

 

Beautiful Tom, and this is the "money shot" too showing that Pearl White Metallic paint and chrome wheelset.  Thank you for bringing this topic back up.  I have thought about it over the years since I posted it in the pandemic era.  

[Centurion]

My daily driver is now a '97 Park Avenue Ultra.  This was an 87,000-mile car that I picked up out of Boise, Idaho about a year ago.  I drive about 20,000 miles / year, so I've got about 107K on it now.  This one runs and looks great, but the prior owner neglected a few items, so there are a few things I'd like to take care of.  I grabbed this one because these cars are getting more difficult to find with reasonable mileage on them.

 

This car replaced my 2004 Park Avenue, which was a beautiful car that was pretty flawless -- until I was involved in a black ice situation during my morning commute early last year, and the car was totaled.  The 2004 replaced my much-loved 1996 Riviera that got rear-ended during my morning commute two years ago.  I think I need to retire in order to preserve these beautiful old Buicks rather than have them totaled in heavy traffic by inattentive drivers.

 

I am content to drive the late-1990's and early-2000's Park Avenues for as long as fine examples remain available.  When I can pick these cars up for $3,500 - $5,500, it's hard to imagine spending considerably more for a new or later model car.

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Centurion (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I am with Brian!   I think.   they are too new to be collector cars.  I had a 1995 PA.  Bought in 2004 with 61000 on it. Sold in 2019 with 149000.  Might have been the best car I ever owned.  Only sold after buying my 1992 Roadmaster. Which is a slightly better riding car.  Needing to trim expenses, both were offered for sale.  The Park Avenue went .  Roadmaster has 86000 on it now.  

 

  Ben

[parkertom]

2 hours ago, Centurion said:

My daily driver is now a '97 Park Avenue Ultra.  This was an 87,000-mile car that I picked up out of Boise, Idaho about a year ago.  I drive about 20,000 miles / year, so I've got about 107K on it now.  This one runs and looks great, but the prior owner neglected a few items, so there are a few things I'd like to take care of.  I grabbed this one because these cars are getting more difficult to find with reasonable mileage on them.

 

This car replaced my 2004 Park Avenue, which was a beautiful car that was pretty flawless -- until I was involved in a black ice situation during my morning commute early last year, and the car was totaled.  The 2004 replaced my much-loved 1996 Riviera that got rear-ended during my morning commute two years ago.  I think I need to retire in order to preserve these beautiful old Buicks rather than have them totaled in heavy traffic by inattentive drivers.

 

I am content to drive the late-1990's and early-2000's Park Avenues for as long as fine examples remain available.  When I can pick these cars up for $3,500 - $5,500, it's hard to imagine spending considerably more for a new or later model car.

 

Agree 100% Brian. They are getting harder and harder to find, especially with low mileage. 
 

When considering something newer, there wasn’t anything else I found that would have been worth the higher expense. I love how the Ultra drives, especially when I get it out on the highway.

 

Just tonight I took it out for my son’s soccer game about an hour away. Floated down the interstate with ease.

[B Jake Moran]

I do think they are collectible, and can be enjoyed as a club car.  People would look at you funny if you parked one at the local show n shines, next to a 57 Chevy or even a modern era Corvette.  

 

One of the things that always fascinated me about a collected car was one owner or 2 owner cars where the owner passionately loved the car, saved it for all of many years and now enjoys it as a collector type car.  

 

Well here you go.  These last gen Park Avenues, and perhaps Lucernes, are among the last Buick cars a person can buy and collect for future hobby events.  The last ones, from 2005, are going on 20 years old now.  

 

There are still a few one owner examples out there, in garages of 70-80 year olds, that will come out to the marketplace.  One of 2 things will happen.  The estate will settle by selling that car, or that car will be used by a grandchild.  

[Centurion]

Within the last year, I saw photos from a major "Radwood" show.  As I understand it, these events focus on cars of the 1980's and 1990's.  Prominent among the vehicles displayed was a Park Avenue of the 1991 - 1996 generation.  The 1997 - 2005 cars cannot be far behind in terms of garnering some collector attention.

 

At last summer's Buick National Meet in Lisle, Illinois, Melanie Mauser, meet chairwoman (and candidate for the BCA board), displayed a stunning black Park Avenue.  I believe that it was a 2004 model.  The car looked perfectly at home on the BCA showfield, and was a classy addition to the show.

[60FlatTop]

20 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Only sold after buying my 1992 Roadmaster.

I bought a 1994 Ultra with 30,000 miles on it. I took it up to 100,000 and made the decision to stay primarily with the body on frame, longitudinal engine RWD and FWD. I also went to the Roadmaster and found it much more satisfying for my long time Buick expectations.

It seemed like repairs never brought back 100% of the original feel. New wheel bearing did not seem as smooth. New brakes were slightly different. I could feel flex in the unibody in some locations. It was a great car but I never had the "keeper" feeling.

We moved to Tahoes and now an Avalanche to get that old fashioned big car feeling.

 

I am the tech guy for the Buick Club on 1991-1996 Roadmasters. I get an average of one call per month in reference to those cars.

[TxBuicks]

Although not a Park Avenue, my everyday primary vehicle is a 1998 LeSabre that I bought for $500 because it was running bad and had a power steering leak and the owner did not want to repair it.  A $40 coil got it running like new.  I eventually had to replace the rack and pinion steering unit, but that still put it at less than $1,500.  It has 220,000 miles on it and still runs and drives smooth.  If you are willing to do a little work on these, you can pick them up regularly for under $1,000 and drive them several more years.

Edited April 26, 2023 by TxBuicks (see edit history)

[dship]

You cannot kill a 3800 v6 engine.  I've owned 6 Buicks with a variation of that engine from naturally aspirated to supercharged.  IMO it's the best engine that Buick built.  

[Frank DuVal]

Late last year I passed up a local 2003 with under 50K on it because 1. it was not an Ultra 2. it was, to quote a friend, Grampa Gold. 😁 I already have a gold one, the '95. and 3. the son was asking almost $9k for PAT's car. I say Pat because that was the personalized plate! I did think about it, as it had heads up display. 

 

On 4/25/2023 at 7:08 PM, 60FlatTop said:

I could feel flex in the unibody in some locations.

Must be a New York thing. My '94 Caprice wagon has more flex in it. Of course it is near 300k on it now....😃

 

The wife will not let me buy another white Park Avenue, as the '98 Park Avenue has lost major portions of paint. She refused to ride in it at some point, and I still drive it 70 miles a day to work, 270k.  Yes, it is a daily driver, so no garage time. But I have learned the hood is aluminum.

 

[60FlatTop]

It had less than 30,000 miles when I bought it.I called the car my flexible flyer. I have a habit of putting my elbow on the window sill or door panel. If I extended my fingers straight up could touch the seal between the door and the door frame above the window. As I drove I could feel light pressure shifting on my fingers as I drove. It wasn't frightening, but annoying. The car was my first experience away from the body on frame platform. Prior to that my daily driver had been a 1967 Cadillac Sedan de Ville.

 

An era of my automotive life ended by my daughter's social trauma.

 

I have a 1986 Park Avenue but the roof has been cut off that. No little nooks or crannies to poke my fingers while driving.

[NTX5467]

ONE compelling reason to preserve the last-gen Park Avenues is that they were designed when people at Buick KNEW what Buick should be . . . and was.  As that particular body series was a more modernized version of the prior fwd Park Avenues.  I loved the interiors on those first fwd Park Aavenues, opulent and luxurious in the Best Buick Tradition.

 

Bad thing was that whomever was in the chassis tuning operation apparently sought to emulate the "Buick Float" in those cars.  Even when new, they floated after dips.  But the 2000 cars became more firm, by observation.

 

My 2005 LeSabre Limited began life as a Hertz rental car, seeing duty in Hawaii first.  Then resold by a GM dealer in Abilene, TX  and then to several, sequential owners who lived northeast of there, where it spent the majority of its life before coming to the DFW area to live "with the kids".  I bought it off of my then-employer's used car lot, five years ago, as a "second car", with just over 89K miles on it.

 

The car has every option on it, except for one.  It has the standard 15" alloy wheels rather than the optional 16" wheels.  Why?  Replacement cost of the 15" tires over the 16s, most probably, considering it was spec'd for a car rental company.

 

Considering the minor horsepower differences in the Buick 3800 V-6 and the Chevy 3.4L in my, the Buick V-6 is effortless in moving the car very well.  Steering is smooth and easy.  The ride is quiet and easy, until a dip is encountered, though.  An interesting feeling that everything is in equilibrium between the car and the world as it moves over the Interstate highways.  A pleasant feeling that "All is right with the world" being in a Buick!

 

When I'm not driving it, the LeSabre Limited stays in a metal building, out of the sun's rays, to help further preserve the interior soft trim.

 

Maybe not a Park Avenue, but the closest thing to it, the way the car is equipped.  One of the last examples of Buicks when Buick was still the Buick we all knew and cherished in earlier models.

 

NTX5467

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

To me the last true Buick designed for the typical Buick buyer was the 1996 with the looped, easy grip door handle. An aged, palsied hand could grip those with the assurance expected when entering a Buick. Those flip up paddle handles can be a challenge to some.

 

Most cars have returned to some variation of the old style.

 

The handle of choice.

[8E45E]

On 5/2/2023 at 5:35 PM, 60FlatTop said:

To me the last true Buick designed for the typical Buick buyer was the 1996 with the looped, easy grip door handle. An aged, palsied hand could grip those with the assurance expected when entering a Buick. Those flip up paddle handles can be a challenge to some.

Outside or inside?

 

Buick first used the outside 'pull-up' handle on the redesigned 'A' bodied cars starting in 1973, and later followed with the downsized 1977 'B' body line.

 

When I read or hear 'paddle handle' in reference to GM, the famous lift-up inside door handle ahead of the armrest immediately comes to mind for me, that was used from 1959 through 1967.  Very convenient and easy to use; perhaps too easy, as they were redesigned for 1968.

 

Craig

 

.

[Frank DuVal]

We are talking exterior. The chrome plated pull up handles are light years better than the plastic pull up handles of the later cars. The plastic breaks. You have no grip to actually pull the door open. The chrome ones you speak of had a recess where your fingertips could apply an outward force to pull the door open. Very handy for those long heavy two door doors. But these new plastic ones are just paddles without grippability, so you exert more upward force to open the door (note upward is not how you open a door😧) and snap the handle off!

 

Of course the actual loop handles allow one to PULL the door open!

[Barney Eaton]

Any Park Ave with the 3800 engine is a sweet ride and a steal when you look at the prices of new vehicles. 

A PA Ultra is even better,  just remember to check the supercharger oil. 

[gungeey]

I had the 2004 Ultra. I liked bench seat cars, and that was my last one. I didn't care for the fact that the supercharged cars require 91 octane for not an overabundance of performance. It also had a dual exhaust. I will say it didn't ask for a lot. Front hubs, intake gasket and other items. I kept after the supercharger oil. There's not a lot in there.

 

By the time I needed replacement parts for the exhaust GM had discontinued them. I find the aftermarket catalytic converters last about a year. I did it once with the PA and when the year went by..Boom..Time for another one... and that was my last late model Buick. Bye Bye Buick. The car before that was a 2000? Continental. That was a beast of a car. After the Park Ave it's since been Lincolns. Their Flagship models are still high USA content.

Edited June 11, 2023 by gungeey (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

I run 93 in my 2005 Ultra. We are at sea level, so have sea level pump gas octanes. It will run on 87, but the knock sensor cuts back HP a lot!

 

Intake gasket? That's usually just an issue on the naturally aspirated 3800s.

 

[JohnD1956]

7 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Intake gasket? That's usually just an issue on the naturally aspirated 3800s

That went on my 95 Riviera along with a bunch of other stuff but it was still a great driving car. 

[Frank DuVal]

On 6/13/2023 at 7:37 AM, JohnD1956 said:

That went on my 95 Riviera

Supercharged or normally aspirated 3800?

[JohnD1956]

Supercharged

[B Jake Moran]

Marketplace - 1999 Buick Park Avenue · Sedan 4D | Facebook

 

 

 

Driven 58,000 miles

Automatic transmission

Exterior color: Gold · Interior color: Tan

Fuel type: Gasoline

17.0 MPG city · 25.0 MPG highway · 20.0 MPG combined

2 owners

This vehicle is paid off

 

Seller's Description

Low low miles excellent condition..must see..you will buy it..drive anywhere

[Brad Conley]

3 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

Marketplace - 1999 Buick Park Avenue · Sedan 4D | Facebook

 

 

 

Driven 58,000 miles

Automatic transmission

Exterior color: Gold · Interior color: Tan

Fuel type: Gasoline

17.0 MPG city · 25.0 MPG highway · 20.0 MPG combined

2 owners

This vehicle is paid off

 

Seller's Description

Low low miles excellent condition..must see..you will buy it..drive anywhere

Yea, but it's "grandma gold"....😁

[B Jake Moran]

On 6/26/2023 at 7:32 PM, Brad Conley said:

Yea, but it's "grandma gold"....😁

Yes Brad, yes it is.  That made me smile.  But you are right.  I am a big fan of golds, browns and similar colors but I don't know about it in this generation of Park Avenue.    Give me that dark blue, black, or even the dark Polo Green with the medium saddle interior. 

 

Depending on the condition, the Pearlescent White pops.  But not this Gold. 

[Brad Conley]

I only say that because I have a '99 Ultra in Pearl White.  It really is beautiful and only 50,000 miles.

[parkertom]

My ‘05 is Pearl White. Low mileage but was allowed to sit outside for a long time while not in use. Also a few bumps and bruises from the prior owner. Great driver though.

[Frank DuVal]

On 6/26/2023 at 8:32 PM, Brad Conley said:

Yea, but it's "grandma gold"....😁

I have a 95 in Grampa Gold, so I passed up a 2003 with 40K miles here locally because:

1. Not an Ultra

2. Grandpa gold

3. Seller was asking something like 9 grand. For half that I would have bought it. Then I would have 4 Park Avenues in the yard.....😧

[JohnD1956]

Gold is one of my favorite colors and I am a grandpa, so it looks great to me. 

[Brad Conley]

Oh, I like gold too.  In fact, my '72 Electra Custom 2 door is Champaign Gold, a most beautiful color.

[60FlatTop]

On 4/26/2023 at 10:14 AM, dship said:

You cannot kill a 3800 v6 engine.  I've owned 6 Buicks with a variation of that engine from naturally aspirated to supercharged. 

I was just reading through some of the past posts and this one caught my eye.

 

There is a pretty good movie called "Nebraska" that I would recommend.  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1821549/  One scene is the group of old guys talking bout some uncle's Buick. One said "Yep. You can't kill those cars."

"Whatever happened to that car?"

"It died."

 

Six of them, huh?

[dship]

54 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

 

Six of them, huh?

I know that's not very many compared to many other Buick owners.  But over time I've owned four Rivieras and two Reattas with the 3800 V6 engine.  The only other Buick I owned was an '85 Riviera with the anemic 307 ci Old's engine.

[Frank DuVal]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

"Whatever happened to that car?"

"It died."

When I hear this in reference to a 3800, I think computer/wiring/transmission issues!

 

The '95 had a weird issue one day. Daughter drove it to the dentist and said something was running under the hood when she got out. When she got back to the car, it was still running and she determined it was the HVAC blower on high. She drove it back home and I pulled the high speed relay, yep, died in the closed position (electrically closed that is).

[60FlatTop]

I was wondering if any of the 6 "died".

 

When I was recovering from medical issues I made a spreadsheet of all the cars I remembered owning. I excluded flips and only listed ones that meant something to me. 72 were Buicks.

 

Owning multiple cars concurrently seemed to happen early. A stranger came to my garage to buy an item listed on Facebook. The old cars were inside and the drivers outside. He looked at me after a few minutes and said "These cars are all licensed." We have windshield stickers in New York.

 

On the dying thing. Around here men using dying to describe a binary thing like no fuel or no spark. Women use "It died" more broadly.

 

Did I just write a pun or was it Freudian.

[60FlatTop]

A few years ago my son had a 2001 Park Avenue that had a delayed shift between gears. It threw an OBD2 code. They said the EPA declared the car inefficient and wasted fuel during the shift and damaged the environment. The rebuild would be about $2000. He had to dispose of the car for economics.

 

About a week later I saw a volley of missiles had been launched into a Syrian city and took out a few blocks. Still hacking up a hairball on that one.