AHa Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 When I started the restoration of my "basket case" there was no radiator badge. A friend later found one at Hershey for me but when I moved it was put in a box and lost. The car has been restored for several years now and just today I found the radiator badge. The question now is , how to attach it to the shell? It was originally soldered onto the shell but I don't like the idea of stripping the shell down, taking the radiator out of the shell, soldering the badge on, then reversing the process. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Trim adhessive should work unless the shell gets really hot. Maybe still , but I'm not sure if it breaks down at high temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 I agree.should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans1 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 just in case, buy another emblem, I hope your's is not too scarce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Attach it correctly then you only have to do it once and don't ever have to worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stakeside Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Make sure it is securely attached. My Dodge Bros truck has one that could be pried off with little effort. Choose place a plate behind to secure it. Seen these on e-bay for $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Epoxy should hold it. Just a little, not a lot, and don't let it ooze out the edges. Clamp it in place overnight and it should withstand anything anyone can throw at it--heat, pry bar, whatever. Do it carefully and you won't mar the finish on the badge or the radiator. Clamping it in place is the key, don't let it move and keep the badge tightly pressed to the mating surface. If the two items are plated or smooth, it probably wouldn't hurt to rough them up a little bit with some 80 grit on a pencil eraser--just a little spot that will be hidden by the badge. Good luck! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 I have had great success with clear silicone adhesive. It doesn't get brittle like some epoxies. We used it to adhere fixtures to windows that stood up to sun and heat/cold cycles. Did you ever need to remove bathtub caulk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Epoxy starts to lose its strength at about 20 oC. At 60 oC or so, it reaches the Heat Distortion Temperature and begins to deform. Its strength and stiffness reduce as the temperature increases. At 90 oC, it is becoming quite ductile. You might find it will sag and may fall off on a hot day with a long run. Not to mention that any epoxy exposed to UV will discolour. Do it properly with a mechanical fastener. Don't be cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 57 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said: Epoxy starts to lose its strength at about 20 oC. At 60 oC or so, it reaches the Heat Distortion Temperature and begins to deform. Its strength and stiffness reduce as the temperature increases. At 90 oC, it is becoming quite ductile. You might find it will sag and may fall off on a hot day with a long run. Not to mention that any epoxy exposed to UV will discolour. Do it properly with a mechanical fastener. Don't be cheap. I find it very hard to believe that epoxy loses its strength at room temperature (20oC = 70oF) and will sag and fail at 175oF. This two-part epoxy from 3M says it's good to 400oF and is good for metals (https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/?N=5002385+8710979+8713609+3293241657&preselect=8710676+8710815&rt=rud). The two-part epoxy we used to use on the race cars would handle the heat of ceramic brakes right next to it without getting soft (in fact, the fiberglass bodywork would be damaged before the epoxy holding the panels to the chassis). As he said, the emblem was originally soldered in place so there's no mechanical fastener to hold it. With good prep, I still think two-part epoxy is the best bet on a finished radiator installed on a finished car. Just a dab on the back of the badge, you won't even see it so discoloration is a non-issue. Besides, if it falls off, you can do something else that's more labor-intensive. If epoxy really fails that easily, you should be able to wipe it off with a rag and some paint thinner and start over. But I don't expect it will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 OK, the car is a 1911 Buick and has the round radiator badge. After I misplaced mine I looked for several years for a replacement without finding anything. If I take a chance and take the radiator out of the shell, there is a chance I won't get it back in and replacement cost is $6500. These are all good suggestions. Which one do I trust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: This two-part epoxy from 3M says it's good to 400oF and is good for metals Clearly epoxy has moved on in the last little while! I must have been reading about earlier formulations. I have also had it sag at c. 50 oC when I was heating a piece of clear polycarbonate or something to form it to a shape as a head light cover for my 1939 Studebaker. Reservations withdrawn! Thanks for the education Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) Aha, Why don't you provide some pictures. If you have the room, this is what I would suggest. You can buy 1/4" elevator bolts, or you can grind the top of a carriage bolt until it is thin and flat. What you want is to maximize the surface area. Then you can JBWeld (Epoxy) the back of the emblem to the bolt head. This will be permanent even with radiator heat near it. Then stack a couple of washers in the area between the bolt and shell hole. Finally add one larger washer and a lock washer and brass nut to hold it in place. That should hold the emblem and you can remove it later if you need to. I have emblems that have to be removed for replating or painting, and this is how I reattach them. I don't really want to solder on them for a second time and I do not want to lose them either. Hugh Edited April 2, 2019 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 (edited) The standard badge for my '31 Chevrolet had a round steel clip centered in badge, that fit tightly in a hole in rad shell, allowing bowtie to be rotated to be perfectly level. However, when I bought an accessory radiator stoneguard, it came with an oval chromed backing plate soldered to the grill wires and used to bolt the guard to the shell thru the original shell bowtie hole. The accessory guard originally would have come with a bowtie with a different clip (offset) to attach to the chrome backing plate.This meant I could not use my bowtie as it is. I looked at 2 options. (1) Remove round clip from bowtie and try to re-solder in perfect location on badge, a risky endeavor due to heat etc. (2) Stick badge on by some other means. I removed old clip 9carefully prised it off and cleaned surface) and used 3M 2 sided tape (1/32" thick type used to attach side trim on many modern cars), carefully cut it to fully cover back of badge within 1/32" of edge and carefully placed it in position. Looks perfect and very difficult to remove. I know, because I had to remove the guard for other reasons 2 years ago and carefully prised the badge off before replacing with new tape. Edited April 6, 2019 by Gunsmoke (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAU Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 I'm with JFranklin above. Clear sheetmetal type Silicone is the best. I spent many years as a metal Roofing contractor and I've seen metal flashings that have been out in the weather (read HEAT) for 20 - 30 years where I live and you have to cut the silicone to separate them. If you stick the badge on with that it will never fall off. I might also add that it is the best thing for sealing exhaust gaskets, manifolds and exhaust pipes as it does not burn. Far better than the expensive exhaust sealer you can buy in tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 I have become very fond of 3M Automotive Panel adhesive (for glue-ing together sheet metal for modern car repairs). On a brass car to put back on an emblem that was probably sweat soldered on to begin with, I would make sure brass is super clean and then I would scuff up area behind the emblem and on shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossp Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 @AHa what technique did you go with and how has it survived the last five years? I just paid the invoice in an online auction for a long searched for badge to replace an incorrect reproduction on my 15 dodge brothers. As this badge ended up costing me over 10% of the cars purchase price… I really don’t want it to fall off and this car sees more road time than some peoples modern daily drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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