Newbie looking to get my first collectible.

[auburnseeker]

I like the thrill of the hunt.  Since I'm buried in my garage project financially it's nice to car shop with someone else's money.  

[Amberly]

Think I’m going to go take a peak  at my first vehicles this week to get my feet wet.  I won’t buy anything without ya.... To be continued...

 

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/buick/special/2205650.html#&gid=1&pid=10

 

 

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/d/alpharetta-beautiful-1950-cadillac/6771477420.html

[auburnseeker]

The Buick Looks like it was a tired car to start with.  Cracked up steering wheel/ horn button as well as all the chrome looks pitted inside and out.  I would definitely look for better.   If it's real close might be worth looking at, just to see what we see when we look at photos closely in person and why we say a car is this or that.  I think that company has alot of cars for sale.  Has anyone ever dealt with them? 

I think there are incorrect things about it as well,  but I'm far from versed on Buicks,  so the Buick guys could point them out. 

Looks like that Caddy might have sold.  Ad shows deleted by Author.

[JamesR]

It seems to me that the OP is doing many things right, and showing some wisdom in her search for a first collector car. I don't know if she heard it from a car person or if it's just her inclination, but she's interested in looking at cars that are solid and "sorted out" as well as not needing a lot of body or structural work. This is good because it's ultimately a better use of money to spend 20k on a good collector car (of the common variety) that doesn't need much work instead of buying something for $5000 and hoping that throwing another $5000 at it will turn it into something it's not. Of course, there are exceptions to that; I bought my survivor Mercury for $2100 a dozen hears ago, and the condition is such that it hasn't needed much beyond that. OTOH I bought my '54 Ford for $4500 and put another 10k and lots of labor in it, and I definitely could've acquired a better condition '54 if I'd spent $14,500 up front.

 

But other folks are correct that some (or many) people out there will put lipstick on a pig to cash in on an inflated collector car market, and it can be hard for the buyer to discern what is sound and what isn't if you don't have experience.  A friend or relative who's a died in the wool car person can really help out when shopping. The photos she presented make all of those cars look awesome, and they probably are...but may not be. I would do - or remember -  the following things to help your search:

 

- In that price range, it's not unrealistic to want to see a photo log of how the car was restored or refurbished (which all of those cars appear to be, to one degree or another.)  They may not have one, but it's worth asking. You'd want to see pictures of the condition the car started out as, and pictures of actual rusty potions being cut out and replacement metal patch panels being put in place. Pictures of how the frame and floors were refurbished, if at all. Pictures of the motor being rebuilt, if it was. As a frame of reference, you can go to the "Our Restoration Projects" forum on this site to get an idea of what the log should include. Laughing Coyote's restoration thread will give you an ideal example of what you'd like a log to include. If there is no log, you'd at least want a record of receipts for major work or restoration. Make sure there was no extensive rust though on the frame prior to restoration. IMO, that's something that can't adequately be fixed. BTW, when people say "rust free" they often don't mean that literally. They just mean no rust has eaten through metal surfaces. There still may be surface rust.

 

- Stay away from cars being "flipped" or recently bought by the seller for resale. Budget or substandard body work is no problem or scruple for a guy who isn't keeping the vehicle.

 

- Make sure that "clear title" means "clear title." LITERALLY. Check with the DMV in your state to see what title requirements are for old vehicles. Some states don't require titles for old vehicles, but my state is VERY stringent, and if their guidelines aren't followed, a hobby car buyer could end up with a $20,000 lawn ornament. Unlicense-able, undrive-able. Some ads from states back east will say, "clear title" but what they really have  is a registration or a "transferable registration". Make sure your state will recognize a transferable registration as a legitimate certificate of title.

 

For me, two things destroy a car sale - a rusted out frame and no title. With either of those things it's just a parts car. Of course, major things like the engine and transmission are obviously important. Ideally you'd look at a car with quiet exhaust so you can hear any bad transmission or engine noise. Smoke out the tailpipe is generally seen as bad, but there can be many types and causes of smoke. I see smoke as a cause for further investigation, not an automatic rejection of a car. If it's a performance car you desire, blowby smoke is not what you want. For a Sunday cruiser, a small amount of blowby smoke might be tolerated. My slow old Ford has never had the engine rebuilt. It runs smooth and quiet, but it smokes when I start it up, then stops after a couple of miles. Likely valve guide smoke, so I tolerate it.

 

Of the cars the OP showed, the Corvair has the reputation for being the best value. But the Mustang and tri 5 Chevys have mega parts available. My personal opinion is that the Jeepster is the coolest of all the cars shown, but I didn't catch the price. Someone said it was too expensive. That's the reason you don't want a flipper - profit is built into the price. The good philosophy of spending more on a car that's already been restored or made presentable can be undone by a flipper who feels he needs a $7000 profit on a $20,000 car.  That's it for now.

[padgett]

Really have not heard much about what you want. Living in Orlando, the first thing I look for is AC which was not real common until the 60s. Second thing I demand is no rust. Is easier to find here in the souf than up in yankee land as long as you stay away from the coast.

 

That said we really have not heard what you are looking for ? 4000 lb plus or more like 3000 ? Stick or automagic ? Easy to park or needs a double space ? Sound like you are mainly looking at domestic/GM but not if you (or someone close) is mechanically inclined particularly if the local shop does not know how to set points or what a dwell meter is for. Also prior to the '60s, disk brakes were uncommon (though the Pontiac "8 lugs" were pretty good). I remember fading a 61 Cad 'vert brakes to nothing in one stop from 70.)

 

Corvairs are neat but 64 or later, earlier ones had "interesting" rear suspension geometry (kluged in 64, really fixed in 65). Also prior to 1967 VR even power steering was like 5 turns lock to lock & not good for slaloms.

 

Finally most cars had V8s many with 7-12 mpg of Premium. Just something to consider. FI was not common until the 80s so anything earlier is liable to have one or more carburetors (poorly controlled leaks) OTOH nothing sounds quite like dual quads through open elements.

 

Key is that there is a lot out there in you budget range just best to decide exactly what you want, if more chrome than possible take a look at a 58 Buick.

[mercer09]

dont be afraid to offer 10k for a 14k car..............

 

you will get it- maybe not on the first or 2nd try........... but there are so many deals out there. you ARE in the drivers seat.

[Ed Luddy]

You need to find some old car people that will let you drive a few different makes and models if possible. Some of the cars you are interested in can be a handful to drive if you're not familiar with the "old car" steering, suspension, and especially the brakes! I love the looks of the big old 50's sedans, but in modern traffic I prefer late 60's early 70's with improved brakes and ball joints vs king pins. They are usually cheaper to buy and maintain as well.  A 69 Chev Impala is a good driver  and cheaper on the budget. I prefer full size Chrysler products because of the torsion bar handling and front disc brakes. 

[auburnseeker]

The only problem with most late 60's cars when compared to late 50's cars is curb appeal.  Whole different look.  People like each and that is great.  So far Amberly seems to lean toward the earlier styling.  They are still very driveable,  just not as similar to modern cars, though far from prehistoric.  A little extra thought and preparedness/ caution and they can be just if not more enjoyable.  If you are used to driving a 30 year old semi worn out truck,  a properly kept , not worn out 50's car will drive better.   Alot of people are just getting used to the machine taking care of them,  rather than having to drive the machine. 

I love manual transmissions with manual steering and brakes.  Even hand chokes and throttles are great.   Knowing just the right combination to get that old car to start of choke and throttle.    The more you drive one the better it will perform and more comfortable you will be driving stopping and starting it.  My first test drive of any of the cars I bought or even refurbished is always nerve racking.  Though that same car a few months or even a year down the road,  open the garage door,  hook the battery up do the familiar starting procedure , she lights right off and off we go without a second thought.   It's all just sorting and even some of the best old cars often never get all the way there until one of us ends up with them and take them that final step. 

 

Amberly, let us know what you really like or don't.  So far my hunch is as stated.   I was even a little hesitant to post the Caddy as I thought it might be a bit too much of an old man sedan as my wife calls them. 

[John S.]

Amberly, welcome to the forum. I see that you have been given a lot  of valuable information about buying an older, vintage  car. With a budget of $25,000.00, you have a wide selection of cars to choose from.  I would stick to your budget, and try to look for original cars that have been taken care over the years. See if the owner has kept service records for oil changes and regular repairs. I love 1957 Chevrolets, but you will not get a nice Bel Air 2 door hardtop for that kind of money. The Bel Air you were looking was a little  questionable  at best. Stay away from 20 footers! the next thing when you are ready to buy a car, find  a good mechanic to go over the car, before you purchase it, and when you do purchase it, it will be ready to drive. A common mistake when getting an old car, is driving it without checking belts, hoses, fluids, etc. The '55 Oldsmobile is a nice looking car, but never buy anything unless you ,or someone you trust looks at it in person.  Amberly, I wish you good luck on your quest. Thanks. John

[jan arnett (2)]

Have them video the following.  Ask them to start it up and look at the tail pipe for smoke.  Ask them to pull the dip stick and look for a creamy appearance indicating water.  Open the radiator cap and look for bubbles.  Pull the brake drums and check the shoes and drums.  Have fun and learn how to work on it.

Jan

[auburnseeker]

There was this Ford just posted in the for sale section. It sure does look nice with some prominent awards to it having been correctly restored.  It might even be in your neck of the woods. 

 

[mercer09]

Pull the brake drums and check the shoes and drums.

 

YOU SIR WOULD BE TOSSED OFF MY PROPERTY IN 2 MINUTES!

 

[auburnseeker]

33 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

Pull the brake drums and check the shoes and drums.

 

YOU SIR WOULD BE TOSSED OFF MY PROPERTY IN 2 MINUTES!

I was kind of thinking the same thing. 

I haven't heard of anyone doing that except an inspection station for state inspection,  but not a private inspection for a car for sale. Besides if the brakes seem to stop the car properly with no pulling, good pedal and  visual inspection of lines, hoses, master you will have a pretty good idea of how the brakes are.  If it later needs shoes, then that's a wear part that's usually not crazy expensive and fairly straightforward on everything but a 50's Mopar.   Most garages could handle that job.  Of all the cars I have done that I can recall in the recent past only one needed shoes (usually they need everything else but shoes) That car was completely worn out from engine on.  I still wonder how they ever got it up hill into the garage after seeing how bad the pistons were worn, rings broken and worn like pebbles as well as every valve not seating. 

[Amberly]

Think I’m going to go take a peak  at my first vehicle this week to get my feet wet.  I won’t buy anything without ya.... To be continued...

 

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/buick/special/2205650.html#&gid=1&pid=10

 

 

Anybody have any thoughts about pricing or quality or raise your hand if you think this is a good first purchase 
(assuming it all checks out)? 

 

[MCHinson]

I purchased a 1954 Four Door Buick Special not that many years ago for a fraction of that price. It was in similar condition. I don't follow the values of that  era of cars now that I am more interested in 1937-1938 Buicks. The condition of the bright work that I see in the interior of the car as well as the chassis photos would make me think that car is not worth the asking price. It would probably be a decent driver, but I would suggest you scroll down and post this link in the Buick forum where you will get some excellent feedback on the value of that car in that condition. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

6 hours ago, Amberly said:

Anybody have any thoughts about pricing or quality or raise your hand if you think this is a good first purchase 
(assuming it all checks out)? 

 

Some collectors disparage price guides, but I feel they

are useful, especially for cars that are bought and sold fairly often.

 

Here are a couple of them on the internet:

---https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/search/auto

     Hagerty is a respected antique-car insurer and naturally values

     cars as part of its business.

 

---https://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/Manufacturers?from=classic

     In their printed book, they admit their prices are on the high side,

     but they say that their valuations are only for all-original cars.

 

Here is a good book, issued annually by the publishers of

Old Cars Report Price Guide.  (Alternatively, you may find their

magazine-style price guide, issued 6 times a year, on newsstands.).

Their 2019 "Collector Car Price Guide" has been out since last summer:

https://www.krausebooks.com/2019-collector-car-price-guide-r7730?CAWELAID=120243080000007345

 

I'd estimate that that 1956 Buick Special offered by the dealer is in

#3-minus condition.  It might be #3 if the upholstery were correct, but

the upholstery is wrong.  Also, the paint looks a bit dull or cloudy to me.

#3 condition means a car may look perfect from 20 feet away,

but as you get close, you'll see flaws that are fairly minor--

a few chips in the paint, a little wear on the upholstery, chrome not perfect, etc.

Most cars seen at local car shows are in #3 condition.

Edited January 28, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Modeleh]

I would stay away from the turbo Corvairs and the multiple carburetor models.  Too finicky and not many people are going to know what they need to run right.  I would recommend something more conventional than a Corvair.  The early Ford Falcons and Mercury Comets were well built, simple and conventional powertrains that still today are very easy to get parts for and any mechanically minded person will be able to maintain and repair.  I also suggest these cars because they are relatively small compared to some other collector cars so they’re easy to park and operate on a daily basis.  If someone bumps into you and you need paint and body repair you’re better off with a simple car than something with lots of trim and chrome that could take a long time to find good replacement parts for.  The early 60s cars still have some interesting designs yet have 12 volt electrical with long lasting plastic coated wiring.  If you are considering a 50s car, many were 6 volt with cloth covered wiring which by now is in a state of degradation and can cause big problems.  There’s a lot of build quality considerations to make when deciding which old car will be right for you.  These old cars can develop into bad nightmares for the wrong owners or if you choose wisely they can bring you a state of happiness that only a true car person can understand.

[mercer09]

corvair engine comes out with 4 bolts- can be removed from the car in 20 minutes..................

 

cant say that about too many other cars.

[auburnseeker]

6 hours ago, Amberly said:

Think I’m going to go take a peak  at my first vehicle this week to get my feet wet.  I won’t buy anything without ya.... To be continued...

 

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/buick/special/2205650.html#&gid=1&pid=10

 

 

Anybody have any thoughts about pricing or quality or raise your hand if you think this is a good first purchase 
(assuming it all checks out)? 

 

I thought I answered this one before but maybe not.  I would pass on this car.  It looks to be in poor shape,  which you will see when you get there.  The chrome is in poor shape in and out.  I'm betting the paint isn't alot better.  Those jewelry store lights make it look much batter than it is.  The badly cracked plastic also means it was not well taken care of and left out in the elements for years.   The power window switch assembly is out of something else.  That 53 Ford posted in the For sale section  makes this looks like a used car lot refugee in the back row in the early 60's that could be bought for $100 just so they could get rid of it.  

Honestly price wise from what I have seen.  10G. would be alot of money for this car.   Remember the Olds I sent that they were asking 14G for.  Compare the 2.  If the photos look that bad of the Buick,  it's going to look even worse in person. 

 

What draws you to this car over others?  Just so we can tailor our searches for you. 

[MCHinson]

If you want a much better Buick, in much better condition, at a much better price from a guy who is well known in the hobby, check out Pete Phillips' ad for a 1954 Century:

 

 

[auburnseeker]

2 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

If you want a much better Buick, in much better condition, at a much better price from a guy who is well known in the hobby, check out Pete Phillips' ad for a 1954 Century:

 

 

That's a nice car for the money if that's what you are looking for.  10X nicer than the other one.   Nice 50's color scheme as well.   You wouldn't get hurt at that price either down the road.  

Edited January 28, 2019 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[capngrog]

47 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

I thought I answered this one before but maybe not.  I would pass on this car.  It looks to be in poor shape,  which you will see when you get there.

 

I agree.  Other than the splayed windshield wiper arms (what's with that?), the power windows and the poor fit of the front of the hood, there is something about this car that just doesn't seem right to me.  I know than forming this opinion based only on photographs, is of doubtful validity, but that's just the way it looks to me.

 

Amberly, let us know how it looks "up close and in person".

 

Cheers,

Grog

[Amberly]

Man, I am glad I reached out to you guys.  

 

I accidentally put in the wrong link.... I decided to not look at the  56 special.  I am thinking about driving to FL to check out the 53 Ford Vic this week.  Had a good conversation with the guy today.  

 

However, that link ya’ll just sent about the 54 century model looks appealing.   

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Amberly (see edit history)

[mercer09]

WOULDNT YOU REALLY RATHER HAVE A BUICK?????????????????????

[MCHinson]

Pete is both a forum member, and the editor of the Buick Club of America's monthly magazine, The Bugle. I would venture to say that you could not find a better guy to buy a Buick from. He knows what he is doing and if he restored it and recommends it, I would say you can take that to the bank. Unless the Ford is exactly what you want in perfect condition, closer and cheaper, I would really think that the Buick Century would be the one that I would consider first. You have to pick what you want. I admit that I owned Fords for the first decade or two that I was in the hobby, but I am now exclusively a Buick owner. If you want a 1950's car, you can't do much better than that Century.

[auburnseeker]

Give us a couple more weeks.  We'll have your head spinning with all the possibilities.  

I will say out of literally thousands of Old cars in general I've seen listed,  I only have a handful to present to you,  shows it takes a little diligence and patience to get just the right car.    It's slightly easier if you have a more narrowed search,   but I like to see the overall picture of what's for sale.  You never know when something you never even thought of pops up and just rings all the bells.  Something you would have never found if you were only looking for say a Salmon 57 Belair 2 door hardtop within a 2 hour drive. 

I've always thought the narrow minded missed so many great opportunities in their quest for a certain car,  which they almost never find, because the few exact matches,  never align with their budget. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

Great buys out there on Chrysler's/Desoto's out of the mid 50's. A 55-56 Desoto is a very nice driving car. Chrysler's offer a lot of style for the money. The weak link in 50's cars is the transmissions. Suspensions, brakes, engines and construction of the cars was pretty good by the 50's. The early automatics work fine, when they work. But can cost a lot to be pulled out and rebuilt. I know everyone on here likes original cars. But a 50's car, with an updated transmission is a plus in my book. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

Amberly, please check your Private Messages.

I sent you a P. M. earlier today.

[huptoy]

I have had 67 Mustang on the road about 3 years & was redone as a very nice driver.  It has about 134,000 miles with everything new about 3,500 miles ago.  The car is an 289 V8, auto, Factory A/C, PS, new paint, interior carpet, headliner, seats, moter rebuilt & trans.  I plan to put it up for sale when the weather breaks in April.  If interested, PM me.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by huptoy
Remove photos (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

I have kind of avoided sending you any Mustangs,  not that there is anything against them,  It just seemed your interest was really in the 50's flash.  If you want to see Mustangs as well,  I can surely find a few that pass the first muster.   Just let me know.  With Mustangs though you should be able to find one somewhat near you easy enough where as other cars not so much. 

[jeff_a]

This is kind of interesting if you are leaning more truck than car and want a vehicle you could drive or show without "seeing yourself coming around the corner". At a dealer near St. Louis. 1974, next-to-last year for all International pickups, big 392 V-8.

 Currently on ebay and listed on Motoexotica. Model 200, 3/4 Ton, 4WD, B.I.N. of $23,900.

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[padgett]

a) thought the Mustang AC compressor was a York

b ) Corvair 140 is not at all finicky if you replace the 4 1bbls with a manifold and quadrajet.

c) If going for something interesting from that era the 215/215 aluminum V8 in a Cutlass is a neat combo particularly with a 4 speed.

d) I like my two Buicks and very undervalued at moment.

[auburnseeker]

If you want to get into the truck world,  there is a whole realm of them available for 20G or less.   It would be different but I suspect might be a bit harder to get out of that one without losing a little money unless it's spectacular.  They aren't super popular.  More of a cult following and the cult isn't huge. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

A lot of very nice trucks can be found out here in western States. 

[auburnseeker]

I noticed there were quite a few for sale in GA as well that seemed very reasonable.  So much I started thinking how could I export a few of these North. 

[Modeleh]

17 hours ago, padgett said:

 

b ) Corvair 140 is not at all finicky if you replace the 4 1bbls with a manifold and quadrajet.

 

Exactly my point about why to avoid the multiple carb models.  I won’t get into my opinion of other shortcomings of the Corvair because I know there are a few supporters of them here.  But how many of those proponents of them still actually own one?  Their value or lack thereof on the collector car market speaks volumes.  Do they get attention?  Yes, dollar for dollar probably more attention than nearly anything else but the market says that the actual demand is low.  And it’s not because it’s a forgotten marque.  

[D Yaros]

Amberly,  if you are still looking and I have not mentioned it, I have a ride for sale that you might want to give a look.  It is a 1962 Oldsmobile Dynamic 88 convertible.  Full details are available online, here ==>   http://62olds.atwebpages.com

Edited February 9, 2019 by D Yaros (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

Oldsmobiles seem to be under rated.  I like a 61.   62's seem similar but  I personally think the engineers slipped a bit on the the front end in a front end look.    Still alot of bang for the buck and good performance.   Probably one of the cheapest full size cars for the 60's.    I still think there are lots of NOS parts out there as when I sold parts they rarely sold and when they did it wasn't for much. 1960 and back seem to have a little better following so the parts are scarcer and more expensive.  Though I have scored some nice NOS parts for my 56 Olds at what. I thought were very fair prices. 

[auburnseeker]

Boy if you wanted a 57 Chevy this one doesn't look bad for the money. $ 27,500. and it's a pretty original turn key Belair 2 door hardtop with nice correct  interior.  Worlds above the Coral one posted earlier.  Unfortunately shipping would add another chunk to teh firm price.  I see a little pitting on the 1/4 window frame (not uncommon even on a pretty clean car,)  but the rest of the chrome looks pretty good.    Looks very stock as well which is better than someone's old hot rod.  Of course above your budget a bit but this is what you have to pay to play to get into a 57 2 door hardtop.   A 6 will be less desirable than an 8 when you go to sell it, but it's also a good color combo. 

https://nh.craigslist.org/cto/d/exeter-1957-chevy-belaire-hardtop/6810474766.html

[auburnseeker]

This 59 "Skyliner". I think it's suppose to be a Sunliner as the Skyliner was a retractable hardtop and the Sunliner was the convertible with a cloth top,  was just listed in your neck of the woods.  Seems like a reasonable price if it really is rust free. Interior and chrome (other than the spotlight). Look pretty good. They are asking $24,000.   50's flashiness at it's best.  

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/d/marietta-1959-ford-fairlane-skyliner/6810705015.html

1959 Ford Skyliner Galaxie 500 Convertible. Older restoration that's in awesome shape. Rust free 3 owner car. Purchased from 2nd owner of 20+ years about a year ago. New carb and fuel tank installed last summer. Drum brakes could use refresh from sitting. Top and interior in excellent shape. Frame is excellent. Paint 8.5 out of 10. A few rock chips here or there. Ford 352 small block, auto lite 2100 carb, and automatic transmission. Going to install Holley EFI and redo brakes if the car is still around in a month. Open to partial trades plus cash.