What are some of the great "missing" Classics, prewar American?

[alsancle]

14 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

 

If we are allowed to go European this thread could go another 100 pages.  Didn't Harrah build a replica of the roadster?

 

 

[John_Mereness]

21 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

If we are allowed to go European this thread could go another 100 pages. 

 

 

Yes, off topic, though I stumbled across picture on Facebook and of all I have seen, did not recall this particular one.

 

A large group of us had the discussion yesterday (Porsche restoration facility open house) and they were talking about how the war effected car survival in Europe and I countered with the war quite patriotic to turn in your American RR or X and it basically allowed a new Merlin Engine to be built or ...  Interestingly, though a friend was telling me of their lake house discovery ---- "Well, it seems they just kept the house though no one went down there for the last 50 years - turns out the garage was an easier place to park things than it was to sell them."

Edited December 16, 2018 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

The Allies got even in the end. They sold Rolls-Royce to the Germans. Social justice?

[John_Mereness]

8 hours ago, alsancle said:

Another view of the Lincoln which we think didn't make it. 

 

 

Along the same lines in a Pierce Arrow - these LeBaron Sedans are stunning.

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[PFitz]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

Cadillac offered the stainless spoke covers in 30 & 31.

 As did Franklin in 1930, with their surviving factory drawings, including the specifications and tests to determine the quality of the stainless steel spokes used by Motor Wheel.

 

Paul 

Edited December 17, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[C Carl]

Having  been a fascinated wallflower here with little or nothing to offer, I sense an opportunity to get up off it. For the 1-3 percent of "youse" who do not recognize that low - slung FWD European Exotique, that and it's well - louvered brother, they are French cars : Bucciali. (Pronounced  boo - cheeAH - lee). I have seen 1 or 2 at the Mullin in Oxnard, CA. Also, maybe 15, 20 or more years ago, one of the most exaggerated, (stunning  - almost a caricature of high classic styling), examples of custom coach work ever put on wheels. I was familiar with that very car from a picture which made a literally indelible impression on me as a kid. What a surprise it was to round a corner at "The Pete' " and almost faint away staring at a 1/4 rear view of the thing !!!!!!!! I had not been forewarned. 

 

From the same book, (a Clymer), I recall a very exotic Gregoire. Seems to me it had two entire straight eights, their independent crankshafts being geared together. Am I remembering correctly, or am I wandering around in that other Southern California attraction where Mick The Mouse and Don The Duck rule ? If I am not in fact in D'land, does that twin milled machine yet exist ? 

 

Now look : speaking of So. Cal., if any of you are fortunate enough to escape Winter with a trip to that warm California sun, DO take in the Mullin. I've said it before, I'll say it now : check out availability for a reservation, and adjust your vacation accordingly. You will want to take the earliest possible guided "tour", and then, fueled by a hearty breakfast and plenty of coffee, spend the rest of what is actually a rather short day, (closing time is 3:00 IIRC), on your own. The docents are very knowledgeable, and you will enjoy the generosity of their time as the fascinating discussions that take place there are as varied as the snowflakes you have escaped.  -  Carl 

[John_Mereness]

Speaking of Franklins - a 1931 that is not know to exist.

[John_Mereness]

Also a 1931 Franklin not know to exist.

[K8096]

8 hours ago, alsancle said:

I think I asked Jason about this once and he thought it was alive but unrestored.   If you are really really sharp, you can pick out what is in the background,  which also survived and made it Pebble eventually.

 

 

This 1930 Model M Stutz was owned in Ontario, Canada for many years and then sold to Europe about 10 years ago.   It came out of Argentina I believe.  Per the person who owned it in Canada, it appears it originally had a Weymann body on it and some of the wood in the cowl was nearly identical to another Weymann bodied Stutz he had.   The rest of the body he believed to be Galle coachwork.   So we think what happened is when the leather covered Weymann body fell apart, someone took this Galle body off another chassis (almost 100% certain a European chassis) and put it on the Stutz.  It looked OK, but needed a little work in the back to make the proportions look right when looking at it from the side profile view.  I think the car is in Holland now and slowly being worked on.    As for the car in the back ground...no comment.     

 

    

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by K8096 (see edit history)

[29 franklin]

To John Mereness, I think the Franklin pictured a couple posts above is alive. I think it is one of the last Walker bodied customs. It is in the Franklin Museum at The Gilmore in Michigan . I am not 100% sure but it looks like the same car. 

[alsancle]

12 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

Speaking of Franklins - a 1931 that is not know to exist.

 

Full chrome wheels.

[1937hd45]

Carl, I'll second your motion about a visit to the Mullin. We were there last January, I didn't know the Bugatti collection would be rolled out and replaced with Citroen, but is was very educational. Bumped into a friend from the next town over I hadn't seen in years. I always like those small world travel 3,000 miles to meet some one deals. Bob

[V16]

Can you imagine the excitement of finding this car back in 1987.  In my opinion, one of the most beautiful cars ever built!

[John_Mereness]

 

20 minutes ago, 29 franklin said:

To John Mereness, I think the Franklin pictured a couple posts above is alive. I think it is one of the last Walker bodied customs. It is in the Franklin Museum at The Gilmore in Michigan . I am not 100% sure but it looks like the same car. 

It is a similar car, though not the one that survives (close in the tail, but "slightly" different in the belt moldings and does not have the drop sill doors of the Pirate style).

Edited December 17, 2018 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

This 1930 Franklin does not survive - notice the "elf toe" fenders - it is basically the Auto Show prototype for the production built Pirate.

[John_Mereness]

12 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Full chrome wheels.

Not only full Chrome wires, but fully Chrome metal tire covers too 

[John_Mereness]

8 minutes ago, V16 said:

Can you imagine the excitement of finding this car back in 1987.  In my opinion, one of the most beautiful cars ever built!

 

 

1932 Packard Dietrich Bodies Cars in "Customs" really are stunning - every single one of them.

[edinmass]

9 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

1932 Packard Dietrich Bodies Cars in "Customs" really are stunning - every single one of them.

 

I agree. I think the 1932 Custom Dietrich Packard line was the best ever offered anywhere for style. They make most other one off customs look like a half hearted attempt at designing a car.  The only fault I can find with them is they didn’t make enough of them.

[8E45E]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 4:07 PM, edinmass said:

There is still a lot of cool weird stuff in India........not all of it is well done or tasteful, but some of it is unique. 

 

The 1912 Brooke 'Swan Car' certainly fits into that category, which I believe is now in a museum in Holland.

 

Craig

[8E45E]

14 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

If we are allowed to go European this thread could go another 100 pages. 

 

 

 

Yes it could.  Here is one from France:  http://theoldmotor.com/?p=62600

 

Makes me wonder if this interesting coachbuilder, Alan & Laiutard, bodied some American marques, just to keep on topic with this thread.

 

Craig

[West Peterson]

17 hours ago, alsancle said:

Chrome wheels with BLACK tires can look pretty good on open fender cars.  The later aerodynamic cars like the Auburn look better when the hub caps.

 

 

Between yours and John's comments here, I'm confused. This wheel shows both hub caps and wire wheel covers. Please confirm for me YOUR preference. I like the look with and without the wire wheel covers, but every photo I see of Auburns ALL have hub caps. If there is an option without hub caps, can someone put up a photo, please?

 

[West Peterson]

15 hours ago, V16 said:

Can you imagine the excitement of finding this car back in 1987.  In my opinion, one of the most beautiful cars ever built!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is this the same car?

[packard12man]

19 hours ago, V16 said:

Can you imagine the excitement of finding this car back in 1987.  In my opinion, one of the most beautiful cars ever built!

 

 Thanks for posting the custom Dietrich.  Gets my heart racing just looking at the photo's.  Anyone with any additional info on this car would be awesome.  

 

 

[packard12man]

  

 

A couple more custom Dietrich's - The usual questions - Who, What, Where, When and Why.

[West Peterson]

20 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

1932 Packard Dietrich Bodies Cars in "Customs" really are stunning - every single one of them.

 

While we're posting Dietrichs.... a well-lubricated owner turned this one into scrap in the 1960s. Fortunately, a friend had the wherewithal to save the scrap.

[8E45E]

I really DON'T like to bring this up, but what about the Duesenberg that rolled over a few years ago where much furor was raised over the car not having seat belts as someone was supposedly killed?

 

Did the car get restored?

 

Craig

[trimacar]

All right, thanks for all the great posts....I'm going to take the liberty of asking a more modern question.

 

In the early 1980's I found  a 1933 Packard 12 convertible coupe under a carport in my hometown of Alexandria, Louisiana.  Great original car, though grill and front bumper suffered from being too far forward in carport.

 

I tried to buy and failed, gave the lead to Jim Cogdale (I think that was name?) of Little Rock, Arkansas, then a dealer.  He promised me a finders fee, bought the car, and then told me to f... off when I visited him....what a gentleman...

 

so, anyone know current whereabouts of a car with a Louisiana/Arkansas history?

[alsancle]

8 hours ago, West Peterson said:

 

Between yours and John's comments here, I'm confused. This wheel shows both hub caps and wire wheel covers. Please confirm for me YOUR preference. I like the look with and without the wire wheel covers, but every photo I see of Auburns ALL have hub caps. If there is an option without hub caps, can someone put up a photo, please?

 

 

Sorry.  Throwing terms around loosely can get you in trouble.  You are correct, all Auburns have Hub Caps.   My preference is the wire wheel covers over exposed wires.

[PFitz]

As long as we're mentioning Detrick customs, here's a semi-custom that almost didn't survive.  This one was brought back from the dead. It was found abandoned under a tree in the desert out west - top rotted through and body filled  with leaves. Had been in a bad accident, or accidents, that crushed in the rear frame, bent the front frame, and crushed both right side fenders and running board. Body had to be re-wooded and new trunk built.

 

Paul

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

19 hours ago, 8E45E said:

I really DON'T like to bring this up, but what about the Duesenberg that rolled over a few years ago where much furor was raised over the car not having seat belts as someone was supposedly killed?

 

Did the car get restored?

 

Craig

Yes, the car was re-restored (there was a lot of discussion about a high center of gravity lending to issues and unfortunately it was truly tragic as to what happened), the car is still in the hands of its long term owner, and the car over the past few years has been shown extensively across the United States. 

[theKiwi]

On 12/13/2018 at 12:03 AM, John_Mereness said:

1931 Walker Sedan that survives as referenced periodically in these posts - WILD ride

 

and for @29 franklin

 

Yes, this car is on display at the Gilmore Car Museum in the H H Franklin Club Collection.

 

Roger

 

[29 franklin]

Yes That is the one . Thank you Roger. Glad you are back home and safe. 

[PFitz]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 7:42 PM, 29 franklin said:

To John Mereness, I think the Franklin pictured a couple posts above is alive. I think it is one of the last Walker bodied customs. It is in the Franklin Museum at The Gilmore in Michigan . I am not 100% sure but it looks like the same car. 

 It's not the same car as in the Gilmore. John's pictured 31(back on page 17)  has the Pirate sedan body, but it also has standard, exposed  running boards and splash aprons. And it's not known to still exist.

 

As you can see in theKiwi's pictures just above, the Pirate sedan in the Gilmore has covered running boards, just like the Pirate Touring and Pirate Phaeton. 

 

Rumor has it that Ray Dietrich wanted the doors to cover the running boards because he did not like seeing the dirt and mud that got tracked onto running boards. WaltG can tell you more about that. 

 

Paul

Edited December 19, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[29 franklin]

Thanks Paul. I see the difference  now . 

[ericmac]

I was the volunteer who took the Walker as the car is known to the St. John's show where one of the photos was taken. It is indeed a wild car but is also a joy to drive. We were in a class of custom bodied closed cars and all 12 (if I am remembering correctly) were one-offs. As I backed the Walker into place I looked on either side of me and thought "no prize for us today." I was right.

[PFitz]

39 minutes ago, ericmac said:

I was the volunteer who took the Walker as the car is known to the St. John's show where one of the photos was taken. It is indeed a wild car but is also a joy to drive. We were in a class of custom bodied closed cars and all 12 (if I am remembering correctly) were one-offs. As I backed the Walker into place I looked on either side of me and thought "no prize for us today." I was right.

  The last time that car was at a Franklin Trek the owner corrected me when I called it a Pirate Sedan. He insisted that it was called the, "Walker". I told him, "Look around at the other Franklins, most of them are Walkers, too."

 

Paul

[ericmac]

8 hours ago, PFitz said:

  The last time that car was at a Franklin Trek the owner corrected me when I called it a Pirate Sedan. He insisted that it was called the, "Walker". I told him, "Look around at the other Franklins, most of them are Walkers, too."

 

Paul

Very true.

[John_Mereness]

[John_Mereness]

[edinmass]

The car is no longer with us, but the history it made is. First car at the salt flats to go 24 hours............and at 112 mph in 1932! Lots of others tried, and couldn’t hold together. The next year it averaged 117 mph for 24...........