What are some of the great "missing" Classics, prewar American?

[edinmass]

Great film, on a great car. History in the making. Thanks for the AACA Library for posting it. If you look closely at the rear bumper sticker, you can see the Pierce Arrow motto in Latin.......I’ll buy a drink on the green at Pebble Beach for the first correct interpretation, according to ME.............first to post the motto as spoken in the Pierce Arrow Society will be the winner, or the alternative motto as also spoken at the PAS meets.....🤔

 

Link doesn’t work, search for The Flight Of The Arrow - Pierce Arrow

 

https://be/m1y8qhhbNiQ

 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Grimy]

"Dixit et fecit"  = (literally) "He said it and he did it."  A more polished translation is "said and done" or "claimed and done".  Four years of Latin in an all-male-at-the-time Jesuit high school.  (Also two years of Homeric Greek--the 2nd year we were jaded and had our drivers' licenses and had discovered girls, so to revive our flagging interest, the instructor had us translate the world's first dirty book, Hesiod's Theogeny, which told in great detail the couplings of the gods and goddesses on Mount Olympus--what a vocabulary we had!

[edinmass]

Uncle George, I would have bought you that drink anyway! So now, give them the PAS version on what it says........😇

Edited December 21, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Grimy]

Nephew Eddie, do you want to get me banned from this site?

[edinmass]

3 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Nephew Eddie, do you want to get me banned from this site?

 

Not a chance.......just tell them your my favorite Uncle, they will forgive anything you type........😎

[Grimy]

West would NOT be amused.....

[edinmass]

8 minutes ago, Grimy said:

West would NOT be amused.....

 

 

No.....definitely not, nor about seven or eight hundred people on here......... bloody Mary’s are on me this August........ i’ll start saving my pennies now. If we win a class, we wil have a few more.

Edited December 21, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

And I got scolded for getting off topic.

[Grimy]

4 minutes ago, edinmass said:

bloody Mary’s are on me this August........ i’ll start saving my pennies now. If we win a class, we wil have a few more.

I'll make sure I have a designated driver...

[trimacar]

I recently told a non-Pierce guy that it meant "fix it or f.... it"......he'd admired the badge and thought it was nicely done.

 

he also saw the 1928 radiator badge and thought it was ugly.  I explained to him that, when a Pierce family member pointed out it was a  symbol of ANOTHER Pierce family, not Geo. n., it was discontinued....

[edinmass]

39 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

And I got scolded for getting off topic.

 

Xander......hope your not referring to my comment.........the one with the smiley face.........your truck was well done and looks very nice, I was hoping no one was going to bouncing off the wall because of the modern custom. I’m more guilty than anyone on going off topic.....and it’s usually my closest friends that bust my chops, not the general members. I checked out you website, looks good, and you have done some great cars. 👍

[West Peterson]

10 hours ago, Grimy said:

West would NOT be amused.....

 

Oh... but I would. I'm one of those guys who wouldn't bail a friend out of jail, because I'd be sitting in jail next to him.

[edinmass]

Many people commented on what a great thread this has been. Well, it has, and much more than many people would expect. Through contacts with people on this site, two or three of which have commented multiple times on this threads subject, I have been able to acquire and help several people with major finds for their car or collection. I don’t want to betray anyone’s privacy, but one of the great pre war one off autoshow cars showen in this thread, now has a bunch more documentation and history added to it’s provenance. So one forum member here had a very Merry Christmas, when I was able to acquire a significant amount of documentation and history on his one off car and get the items to his wife for a holiday gift. Also, I was able to acquire for myself some original factory art renderings from the body builder of one of our own cars. Overall no less than five diffrent transactions that made all parties both buyers and sellers very happy. I’ll post a photo of the original Fleetwood artwork after the piece comes back from the conservation lab. So now the big question, will the gentleman who had the extra special Merry Christmas present that was the provenance on his car care to post some of the items he received? We shal see. I’m off to Christmas dinner soon, and will check back in later tonight when I get to my next holiday destination in northwest Maine.

[58L-Y8]

Sorry to follow up so late on this topic, had to take images good enough to post.

 

Reportedly, ten of these 1930 Packard 745 convertible sedan by LeBaron were built, did any survive?    Its one of the purest examples of classic design: close-coupled, four passenger seating, rear body mass ends at the axle-line, dropped lower sills, rear-mounted spares, emphasis on the wheels.

 

To the Franklins: specifically the victoria coupe at top and the sport sedan at the bottom, both by Dietrich. In the proportions and details such as the thin, chrome window frames, these are some of the most wonderful examples of what that massively talented designer could do.   Franklin's relatively short hood looks longer with rear mounted spare, side-mounts were anathema to custom coach designers.

Do either survive?

Steve

[edinmass]

Does anyone have a photo of the 1930 Pierce Arrow Series B LeBaron Roadster up in the Pacific Northwest? They built a few, and none were known to survive until about ten or fifteen years ago, when one popped up on the radar screen. 

[alsancle]

Weymann bodied Pierce Arrow.  I don't think it made it.  Ed?

 

[alsancle]

How about any Mcfarland Roadsters with the 500 and something cube engine?

 

[alsancle]

Slightly side tracked,  but where is the 12 powered Franklin phaeton that was built in the 60s?

 

[1937hd45]

This 1926 McFarland was at Ridgefield back in 1966. Merry Christmas! 

 

bob 

[gossp]

13 minutes ago, alsancle said:

How about any Mcfarland Roadsters with the 500 and something cube engine?

 

 

14 minutes ago, alsancle said:

How about any Mcfarland Roadsters with the 500 and something cube engine?

 

At least a couple McFarlan roadsters with the big twin valve survived. I have driven a touring car with that truck engine in it.... it’s as much fun as you think it would be. 

[alsancle]

Does the Cunningham Roadster exist?

 

[gossp]

5 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Does the Cunningham Roadster exist?

 

Older ones do (Leno had one on tv even) Not sure about one like that. 

[PFitz]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Slightly side tracked,  but where is the 12 powered Franklin phaeton that was built in the 60s?

 

 

 

It's still out at the Franklin Museum in Tucson.  If you scroll down there's a picture of it on their Face Book page. https://www.facebook.com/Franklin-Auto-Museum-157608604307692/

 

Paul

[PFitz]

8 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Sorry to follow up so late on this topic, had to take images good enough to post.

 

Reportedly, ten of these 1930 Packard 745 convertible sedan by LeBaron were built, did any survive?    Its one of the purest examples of classic design: close-coupled, four passenger seating, rear body mass ends at the axle-line, dropped lower sills, rear-mounted spares, emphasis on the wheels.

 

To the Franklins: specifically the victoria coupe at top and the sport sedan at the bottom, both by Dietrich. In the proportions and details such as the thin, chrome window frames, these are some of the most wonderful examples of what that massively talented designer could do.   Franklin's relatively short hood looks longer with rear mounted spare, side-mounts were anathema to custom coach designers.

Do either survive?

Steve

 

While there are still many Dietrich designed Franklins, some of which were built by Dietrich, sadly, none of those three Walker built Dietrichs are known to still exist.

 

Paul 

[trimacar]

ED, fascinating to hear your story about this thread making some things happen!  I know we'd all like to hear "the rest of the stories", but also know that many people prefer to remain under the radar on what they own.

 

Thanks to all for continuing this topic. The idea for posting the original question actually came to my mind after a discussion with Ed about some of the fun cars that are still out there, so I'm particularly glad that he benefitted from it!

[58L-Y8]

Anyone on the survival of at least one of the '30 Packard 745 LeBaron convertible sedans?

[alsancle]

19 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Anyone on the survival of at least one of the '30 Packard 745 LeBaron convertible sedans?

 

I'm pretty sure I saw at least one back at an RM auction in Arizona 15-20 years ago.

[John_Mereness]

11 hours ago, PFitz said:

 

While there are still many Dietrich designed Franklins, some of which were built by Dietrich, sadly, none of those three Walker built Dietrichs are known to still exist.

 

Paul 

I agree with Paul - I do not believe any of these three Franklins exist.

 

 

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

On 12/25/2018 at 5:50 PM, alsancle said:

How about any Mcfarland Roadsters with the 500 and something cube engine?

 

 

 

 

A couple/few decades ago, A fellow I knew through the local Horseless Carriage Club had one of these. He had a small collection of cars ranging from 1903 on up into what I considered modern cars. The cars were kept in several locations, including a vintage dealer's showroom. The McFarlan (no "d") roadster he had was beautifully restored with dark green body. and had been originally owned by a famous name that for the life of me I cannot recall at the moment. 

I think the McFarlan is still around, but I haven't seen him in about twenty years, and don't know for sure. 

Why am I reporting so little when I don't know much more about this one? Just because it was a close one. Around thirty years ago, a building he owned, and kept part of his collection in one half of, and rented the other half to a local shop business was accidentally set on fire by the renter. The McFarlan wasn't there at that time. However five cars were destroyed, including a 1950s Cadillac one-off factory show car, a 1914 (if I recall correctly) Simplex, a 1921 (if I recall correctly) Mercer touring car, and the only 1921 (I think) American touring car I have ever seen (an amazingly original car!). The fifth car I do not recall what it was offhand. The fire was so hot that all aluminum copper and brass was melted into puddles in the ashes. 

[West Peterson]

The late Alden Johnson in Minneapolis owned a McFarlan roadster. I don't know where it ended up, but I think it went to California.

[Grimy]

The ivory-with-black-fenders McFarlan roadster posted by 1937hd45 on page 19 (can't give you a post number anymore because they've gone missing) was owned by the late Cebert Holmes (d. 2013) in Northern CA in the 1980s and (I think) the early 1990s, and was then sold to the late Jack Passey (d. 2015).  I don't know where it is now.  I rode in the car briefly while Cebert owned it.

[1937hd45]

Grimy,Thank you for the update on the McFarlan. We had so many great cars at the Ridgefield Meet 1961 until it died in 1995. Almost every great collection today has a car that once graced the lawn at Veterans Park. Bob 

[edinmass]

3 hours ago, Grimy said:

The ivory-with-black-fenders McFarlan roadster posted by 1937hd45 on page 19 (can't give you a post number anymore because they've gone missing) was owned by the late Cebert Holmes (d. 2013) in Northern CA in the 1980s and (I think) the early 1990s, and was then sold to the late Jack Passey (d. 2015).  I don't know where it is now.  I rode in the car briefly while Cebert owned it.

 

Cebert was an interesting collector, and I enjoyed spending time with him. I looked the car over at his place before Jack ended up with it. I was also chasing a Knickerbocker at the same time. After driving three of them, I decided I would prefer a Cunningham. Anyways, the car left Jacks Collection for another on not too far down the coast..........where it will probably never, ever be seen again. It’s in good company with a bunch of other cars, but it went down the proverbial  black hole. (Giant sucking sound.)

[Grimy]

Just now, edinmass said:

 

Cebert was an interesting collector, and I enjoyed spending time with him

Yes, he was!  I knew him since the early '60s and over the drinks you'll buy me at Pebble, I'll tell you some great stories--the least of which is how I flat towed his broken u-joint 1925 Marmon that his father purchased new 35 miles with a 1953 Ford....

[edinmass]

The Marmon’s engine was apart last time I saw it. Great big beast of a car from an era that so few people know and understand today. The Locomobile sedan that was all white with the Leon Rubay body was very interesting, and I almost ended up taking it home.......but a Pierce Arrow got unexpectedly in the way. I haven’t seen or heard of that car since. Does anyone know where it went to? I don’t have any photos of it to post. The series 36 Pierce Arrow touring car he had ended up on the Boston South Shore, he wanted too much money for it at the time. 

 

George, besides drinks, I will BUY you lunch on Friday at the equestrian center. Noon sharp! It’s become a tradition for me and a handful of friends. I’m sure you will enjoy it. 👍

Edited December 27, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Grimy]

4 minutes ago, edinmass said:

The Marmon’s engine was apart last time I saw it. Great big beast of a car from an era that so few people know and understand today. The Locomobile sedan that was all white with the Leon Rubay body was very interesting, and I almost ended up taking it home.......but a Pierce Arrow got unexpectedly in the way. I haven’t seen or heard of that car since. Does anyone know where it went to? I don’t have any photos of it to post. The series 36 Pierce Arrow touring car he had ended up on the Boston South Shore, he wanted too much money for it at the time. 

 

George, besides drinks, I will BUY you lunch on Friday at the equestrian center. Noon sharp! It’s become a tradition for me and a handful of friends. I’m sure you will enjoy it.

The Marmon was only about 136" wheelbase as I recall, and as plain as a mud fence.  How about the Loco Sportif with trans and steering gear 600W that had turned to tar?  I made him an offer on the 14,000-mile 1927 Pierce 36 4-p touring that he refused and then sold for that same price to Pat, who re-sold it at Hershey within six months.  And I came very close to buying the 1947 Packard-Henney Custom Super Clipper--would have bought it if he'd been anywhere near reasonable; and I provided the dark blue broadcloth for the seats from a 1949 Chrysler Windsor I parted out.

 

Looking forward to telling stories with you at Pebble--thanks for the offer!

[edinmass]

Got to play around with one of these today, one of two known to exist. Neat car.

Edited December 27, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Walt G]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

Grimy,Thank you for the update on the McFarlan. We had so many great cars at the Ridgefield Meet 1961 until it died in 1995. Almost every great collection today has a car that once graced the lawn at Veterans Park. Bob 

Bob is correct about the Ridgefield meet which was the best pre WWII vehicle meet in New England in my estimation. Peter Helck would drive down from his home in Boston Corners , NY to attend in Old 16, and there would be an incredible variety of cars to see - John Linhardt would drive up from Queens , NY in his 34 Packard V12 LeBaron coupe , there were just so many interesting cars - original 34 or 35 Oldsmobile conv coupe, Locomobiles to LaSalles, Packards, Pierce Arrows and Plymouths;    and every year some really eccentric guy would drive up from long island in a 31 Franklin with Derham body or a 41 Packard 120 woody wagon. The flea market around the edge of the school field was spectacular , and I managed to buy at least one large pre war pressed steel toy there every year to add to my collection .

[8E45E]

22 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Got to play around with one of these today, one of two known to exist. Neat car.

 

Does your count include this one in Canada?  http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?59921-Decision-time-1932-Studebaker-restore-it-or-part-it-out

 

Craig

[edinmass]

Yes, that’s the other one........not too sure about the color choice. Neat car and it meets my requirements of rare and obscure. I hate parking next to cars that are similar to what I am driving.

Edited December 27, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)