What are some of the great "missing" Classics, prewar American?

[John_Mereness]

[West Peterson]

On 12/11/2018 at 8:15 PM, edinmass said:

Very rare car, this photo is in my office.....I like it a lot. Not sure if any of these survived.

 

One is currently for sale. It's in Texas.

 

[West Peterson]

On 12/10/2018 at 8:10 PM, packard12man said:

Photo apparently taken in June of 1957.  Must be still out there somewhere!

 

Found! and pulled out of long-term storage within the last few months. Only one known to exist.

[AHa]

Along these same lines is the collection of barn finds sold off several years back. I don't remember much of the details but somebody had amassed a fairly large collection of classic cars, stashing them in dilapidated barns on his property. There was a big auction on site and among the cars was a 32 (?) DV 32 Stutz. I believe an article about the purchase of the Stutz was written up in the AACA mag. It would be interesting to revisit this story with before and after photos.

[alsancle]

On 3/15/2019 at 11:06 AM, West Peterson said:

 

Found! and pulled out of long-term storage within the last few months. Only one known to exist.

 

I'm sure parked in one of the great collections in America.  Will be interesting if we see it before restoration.

Edited March 16, 2019 by alsancle (see edit history)

[alsancle]

9 minutes ago, AHa said:

Along these same lines is the collection of barn finds sold off several years back. I don't remember much of the details but somebody had amassed a fairly large collection of classic cars, stashing them in dilapidated barns on his property. There was a big auction on site and among the cars was a 32 (?) DV 32 Stutz. I believe an article about the purchase of the Stutz was written up in the AACA mag. It would be interesting to revisit this story with before and after photos.

 

We have already beat it in to the ground.

 

 

[edinmass]

9 hours ago, West Peterson said:

 

Found! and pulled out of long-term storage within the last few months. Only one known to exist.

 

Wasn’t lost.........(Main post title).....at least six or seven people had it located, and were trying to land it. (Most were old timers who knew of the car for decades) Yours truly was one of them on the search............I never made direct contact, but came very close..........another strike out........as far as “only one known to exsist” .................maybe or maybe not...........seems there is one more 32-34 custom still stashed away that a few people have caught wind of........(true or false? I have no idea)........I predict a few more major “big boy toys” will be “coming into the light” in the next two or three years. Packard built lots of great cars, so it stands to reason they are the most likely of the great cars to still be pulled out. Keep up the chase......someone has to land it eventually. Most importantly the car went to a good home in the US, and it will be running and driving again soon.........as it should be. I hope to catch a glimpse of it soon...........

[trimacar]

10 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Wasn’t lost.........(Main post title).....at least six or seven people had it located, and were trying to land it.

I like how there's an "underground" segment of our hobby, with squirreled away cars and a few people that know about them, and then it's all about secrecy and private negotiations!

 

Most of us never get to experience that part of the hobby, and of course one reason is that to land the big fish, you need a big lure, and most of our checkbooks don't have the lure needed.

 

I agree with Ed, big country, you'll see some major big fish "finds" in the next couple of years, along with hundreds of small fish......cars that might not so much be unknown, but have been out of the public eye for decades....

[alsancle]

I don't know that it is underground.  I think everyone probably knows about a car or two that fell off the radar and is stashed away.   Nothing is every really "lost".

The 33 Dietrich probably sold for an unimaginable amount of money.

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, trimacar said:

I like how there's an "underground" segment of our hobby, with squirreled away cars and a few people that know about them, and then it's all about secrecy and private negotiations!

 

Most of us never get to experience that part of the hobby, and of course one reason is that to land the big fish, you need a big lure, and most of our checkbooks don't have the lure needed.

 

I agree with Ed, big country, you'll see some major big fish "finds" in the next couple of years, along with hundreds of small fish......cars that might not so much be unknown, but have been out of the public eye for decades....

 

 

I tracked down and found a car I wanted, took 40 years. It is in a large collection and money can't buy it, there have to be hundreds of these stories. Bob 

Edited March 16, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[trimacar]

3 hours ago, alsancle said:

I don't know that it is underground.  I think everyone probably knows about a car or two that fell off the radar and is stashed away.   Nothing is every really "lost".

The 33 Dietrich probably sold for an unimaginable amount of money.

Maybe underground is not the right word, I agree, I was just thinking it's a little like the infamous "dark web"; everyone knows the BIG stories going on, but then there are all these other LITTLE stories that only a few people may know about.

 

Fun stuff!

[1937hd45]

Just now, trimacar said:

Maybe underground is not the right word, I agree, I was just thinking it's a little like the infamous "dark web"; everyone knows the BIG stories going on, but then there are all these other LITTLE stories that only a few people may know about.

 

Fun stuff!

The other side of some of these stories are the true facts about some cars that you just can't bare to share with the current owner. You may know, but telling the owner won't help matters. Bob 

[edinmass]

The dark car web.......has a certain ring to it. The Packard was definitely being sat on by a handful of collectors. I was able to find a well known gentlemen in the hobby and he knew of  the car. He called the family several times on my behalf for someone who was intrested in the car, but I never got the number or location, as like most people with information on the “holy grail” he justifiably want to be compensated. Interestingly we have a 66 percent success rate together on deals such as these. Not too bad of an average. The odds of pulling a great unknown car out of a barn or garage today are just about nill.........but one never knows what’s down the road or around the corner. All we ever really need is a bit of luck..........Where’s my lotto ticket? 

Edited March 16, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

Some of things that people drool all over and are the most winning-ist things at Concours and ...  were found in plain sight and often sat in some nice suburban garage; and often were for sale for years -  they were painted wrong color,  they were pretty rough, they had some challenge outside of the normal skill set, they had some near overwhelming mechanical issue, it was too expensive, someone thought they could steal it away price wise verses just offering something fair, and the list goes on and on. 

[edinmass]

15 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

............ it was too expensive, someone thought they could steal it away price wise verses just offering something fair, and the list goes on and on. 

 

Not too long ago a person driving a three million dollar car offered thirty cents on the dollar for a car that was available. The car in question was more valuable than the one he was driving. Interestingly, the car ended up selling at a fair price for what it was.....only the low ball offer pissed off the seller and he was out of the picture. You got to be in the ballpark on the top end stuff, or you get your walking papers. 

[1937hd45]

Is it a new trend, or have I just noticed more and more top end cars being RErestored after a 10-15 year run? 

 

 

Bob

[John_Mereness]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

Is it a new trend, or have I just noticed more and more top end cars being RErestored after a 10-15 year run? 

 

 

Bob

My opinion is a lot of restored cars are not really that restored or at least restored the way you want them to be, so they get re-restoration.  Also, there are a lot of gorgeous things out there that are painted colors that tend to scream  "that was restored in the 1970's, 80's 90's and so on."   One of the reasons too is a new owner may want to take a car and do the major Conours and most have  rules about re-showing cars for X periods. Also, upon sale the higher the value the general rule is the less someone wants to do on the car - ie do not give people a reason to not pay full price. And, sometimes you want to put your mark on something (ask my Airedale - we now own every tree and post in the neighborhood) or just need a good project to keep us busy.  

 

By the way, what is funny is when people are out trying to find an X and do not realize it is right under their nose as it has been re-restored with a color change and ..

Edited March 16, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[packard12man]

West, great news - wonderful to see a car like this come out from hiding!  Certainly on my bucket list to see down the road.  What we really need is Paul Harvey to tell us the rest of the story!  Conjecture says this is a one of one -  Here are a couple of factory photos when it was new;

[coachJC]

I just came back to looking at this thread since just before Christmas and I saw that Edinmass posted a Factory pic of a 33 Studebaker Speedway Roadster and there was some conversation that came up and links about the car my father owns. My dad has owed his 33 Studebaker since 1963, he first saw the car in the 50s thru some family friends who owed the car. He told the owner if he ever wanted to sell the car he would be interested, my dad at the time would of been in his mid 20s. In 1963 the owner drove up to the garage my Grandfather owed and my dad worked at, and asked him if he still wanted to buy the car. My dad said yes indeed and had to scrounge up the money to buy the car. Dad always said his dad, my grandfather was mad at him for buying the Studebaker as he could of bought 10 Model As and 5 Model Ts for the price he paid for that car. My mom and dad drove the car regularly thru the 80 and he even drove the car down to Hershey in the early 70s from where we live in Ontario. The car was parked in 1982 as there was overheating issues and the water jacket side panel was rotting off and would not hold water anymore. He car sat in the garage till about 2002 when I took the car out to my place to work on it and get in on the road again. My dad was getting older and I knew he would never do it so I took up the challenge  and over a 1yr period fixed what was required so my mom and dad could enjoy driving the car again .So for about 15 yrs now the car has been in regular use all summer long.

 

As the car has always been local to us, my dad knows the full history of the car and it does have a very interesting past, including being the show car for Studebaker at the Toronto CNE car show in 1933.Their was mention of the car colour and that has an interesting story to it. The car was put away in a hay-mow to hide the car during the scrap drive for the war and was hand painted yellow and covered in straw to hid it. A Ford/Mercury dealer bought the car in 1953 and they repainted the car Ford/Mercury Parklane green, and that is the paint and the colour that is on this car to this day.

 

Our 33 Studebaker is the 13 of 18 President Speedway car built for the Canadian market. Of the 8? President Speedways known to exist 4 are Canadian cars the other 4 are US cars. Ours is 1 of 2 known Speedway Roadsters to exist as was previously mentioned and we have been helping with whatever we can to assist the owner of the 2nd car get that car back together and on the road again.

 

Below is a couple of pic..

1955 when my dad first saw the car a took a pic of it.

The original colours in fender well..Cloud Mist Grey Light and Cloud Mist Grey Dark and the Yellow that it was Painted during the war.

last is a pic from a couple of yrs ago.

My avatar is a pic at Hershey this is past fall of my Dad and the owner of the other Roadster.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

[West Peterson]

It was so great seeing that car at Hershey this year.

[coachJC]

Thank you West. Dad had been talking for about 3 yrs that he would like to bring the car down again, as it had been over 40yrs since he drove it down, and unfortunately due to his age his days of being able to attend are near the end. So with a lot of assistance from a friend we were able to make it happen. He really enjoyed being able to take it over to the show on Sat (thank you mother nature for stopping the rain) an being able to participate in the HPOF class.

[edinmass]

The Toronto auto show must have been something to see.....I have a friend who has the 1933 Cadillac V-12 Fleetwood Town Car that was built for the show and sold off the stand. He dug it out of a garage thirty years ago.........bought it sight unseen as a sedan, the truck delivered a Town Car.....not that's good luck!

[edinmass]

I always wondered how the car ended up that shade of green..........great history......and a wonderful car.👍

[coachJC]

Our car was also sold of the stand. They would not sell it to the guy and required a dealer to purchase the car, so he went back to the  Studebaker Dealership in St Catharines where he was from and he went and got them to buy the car for him.

[8E45E]

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 8:46 AM, coachJC said:

Our 1933 Studebaker is the 13 of 18 President Speedway car built for the Canadian market. Of the 8? President Speedways known to exist 4 are Canadian cars the other 4 are US cars. Ours is 1 of 2 known Speedway Roadsters to exist as was previously mentioned and we have been helping with whatever we can to assist the owner of the 2nd car get that car back together and on the road again.

It would be interesting to know where the other 1933 President Speedway Roadsters were sold new in Canada.  Fast forward 30 years later where Canadian Production Orders are available, we do know where at least nine of the 18 Hamilton-assembled 1963 R2-powered  G.T. Hawks were sold new, but remainder of the Production Orders do not show a destination on them.  Of course, if a 'dealer transfer' took place, it would not be noted on the Production Order.  My '63 R2 G.T. Hawk was sold new in Winnipeg as per the Production Order, and remained there until 2013 when I purchased it, and brought it to Calgary.

 

Craig

[John_Mereness]

On 3/18/2019 at 10:46 AM, coachJC said:

The car was put away in a hay-mow to hide the car during the scrap drive for the war and was hand painted yellow and covered in straw to hid it.

Jeff

 

I do not know about Canada, though in the United States it was not that the "scrap drive" was going to "take" your car, but that there was a lot of pressure to participate in the war effort matched to it being very patriotic to donate your car and ... to the drives (aka and the life you save may be your own).  I do know that it was illegal at some point to drive a car on the road with 6 wheels on a car  via your only being allowed to have one spare tire (ie the sidemount spare would be confiscated) - and you often see 6 wheel cars with one crusty wheel and it is because of this.  And plenty of cars obviously survived in every country on the globe. 

[edinmass]

On 12/10/2018 at 8:10 PM, packard12man said:

Photo apparently taken in June of 1957.  Must be still out there somewhere!

 

No longer missing..........thought I might get my dirty little fingers on it........had it in sight..........but it was destined to go somewhere else. At least I located it and and got to speak to the owner of many years. Came up empty. I am rather sure it’s new owner was after it for thirty years, so it was not likely anyone else could have landed it.

Edited September 3, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

I don't remember ever seeing this one before. It is very rare to see a foreign V-12 Packard. This one appears to have the LeBaron-style teardrop shaped fenders, as well as the LeBaron hood ornament, but more traditional-style coachwork. Looks like a "standard" Rolls-Royce body (or Hispano, or similar ilk).

[jeff_a]

On 12/8/2018 at 2:35 PM, alsancle said:

Here is the Franay.

 

 

That use of the word "Kompressormotor" launches it into the stratosphere. -- not to mention the body. I think you're out because of the whitewalls, though.

[alsancle]

14 minutes ago, jeff_a said:

That use of the word "Kompressormotor" launches it into the stratosphere. -- not to mention the body. I think you're out because of the whitewalls, though.

 

I would make a single exception in this case.

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, West Peterson said:

I don't remember ever seeing this one before. It is very rare to see a foreign V-12 Packard. This one appears to have the LeBaron-style teardrop shaped fenders, as well as the LeBaron hood ornament, but more traditional-style coachwork. Looks like a "standard" Rolls-Royce body (or Hispano, or similar ilk).

West, “bare kig I den rigtige garage I Belgian”.  Easy as Pie! 🤫

 

 

 

[West Peterson]

Let's go.

[nzcarnerd]

3 hours ago, West Peterson said:

I don't remember ever seeing this one before. It is very rare to see a foreign V-12 Packard. This one appears to have the LeBaron-style teardrop shaped fenders, as well as the LeBaron hood ornament, but more traditional-style coachwork. Looks like a "standard" Rolls-Royce body (or Hispano, or similar ilk).

CYR is a London area registration series which began in January 1936. The photo was taken at Brooklands.

[zepher]

How about this one?

Found in a stash of files I got from my dad when he passed away 9 years ago.

Taken later than most of the other photos posted, taken in Sep of '69.

 

[zepher]

Another one.

Looks like it was some sort of gathering of pre-war cars.

[zepher]

Another, this one is obviously at a car show.

 

[Grimy]

12 minutes ago, zepher said:

How about this one?

Found in a stash of files I got from my dad when he passed away 9 years ago.

Taken later than most of the other photos posted, taken in Sep of '69.

 

 

1927 Pierce-Arrow Series 36

[zepher]

Last one.

This is a 1926(?) 8 cylinder Rickenbacker, taken at the owner's house.

I do not know what happened to this car.

 

[zepher]

5 minutes ago, Grimy said:

1927 Pierce-Arrow Series 36

 

Any idea who owns it now or who owned it back in 1969?

The pictures were taken in So Cal because our Pierce is in a few of the other pictures that i did not post since we know where that one is.

[Grimy]

12 minutes ago, zepher said:

Any idea who owns it now or who owned it back in 1969?

No.  It would take an hour or two with some records to get some possibilities.  Heidi or Billy might very well know.