383 with a 727 torqueflite trans.

[Laughing Coyote]

I'm looking at a mid 60's Chrysler product and wanted to know if the 383 is a good engine and the 727 torqueflite is a good transmission. Just looking for input from people that have owned them. 

Thanks

[keiser31]

Awesome and bullet proof engines and transmissions! I have owned MANY of them. Whatcha lookin' at?

Edited January 4, 2018 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[61polara]

I agree with keiser31.  It's a great combination with parts available.  If you come across a 361 w 727 torqueflite, it's a great combination also.  Same basic engine, just produced fewer years.

[Laughing Coyote]

This. I need to be able to haul my finished products. You only have so much room in a 2500 Silverado ext cab. I need to lay things flat.

https://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/d/1966-chrysler-town-and/6444586715.html

[keiser31]

Here is one I had for a while....1968 Road Runner coupe....

[Bloo]

Yes.

 

Rock solid. The trans in particular is the most reliable one ever made. It has adjustable bands, and many owners don't know that, so when you get it, drop the fluid (torque converter too if you can!) change the filter, and adjust the bands.

 

The 383 is bulletproof. It doesn't do as good on fuel economy (per displacement) as other Chrysler B/RB engines, but lasts a long, long time. When overhaul time does finally come, you will find a non-symmetrical ring ridge over by the spark plug, and it will need boring. Don't worry about it for now.

 

If it is new enough to have a plastic timing gear (1968 on LA engines, I forget what year on 383), get the damn thing out of there as soon as you get home. Unstick your heat riser (carefully, don't break the bushings loose). The 383 is probably gonna use oil (even though it might not smoke). If this bothers you, change the valve seals. They are umbrella type, and they are bad. You can stuff one cylinder at a time with rope and do this without taking the heads off. If it gets cantankerous about picking the oil back up after oil changes (due to a gazillion miles), just change the oil pump. You wont believe how easy that is.

 

[Laughing Coyote]

Never owned a Chrysler product. Mostly Chevrolet's. I had a buddy in high school that had 67 Dodge dart 4 door with a slant 6. He beat the tar out of that car. Could never hurt the engine or destroy the car. It just kept going. No air cleaner, wood screws holding the battery terminals on the posts, no battery hold down, One headlight shining on the side of the road and one in the trees. What fun times. He ended up getting another car at the end of high school. That one was still running when he parked it at the salvage yard.

[Pluto]

You can stuff one cylinder at a time with rope and do this without taking the heads off.

 

Another method would be to break the porcelain from an old spark plug, braze on an air fitting and pressurize a cylinder. Remove the keepers and springs, replace the umbrellas and go to the next cylinder. These 383s/727s are very good combinations, stout and long-lasting with the usual care.

 

My father bought a new '66 and then a '68. Good cars, faster than he probably wanted them to be. At that price and apparent condition, that wagon would be a very good buy. The lowering is a silly thing; these cars handle very well and look good in stock configuration. Lowering degrades both looks and handling, in my opinion, as well as load carrying ability.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Pluto (see edit history)

[Laughing Coyote]

If it pans out I would raise it backup to stock height. Maybe add dual exhaust if there is room under it and drive the wheels off.

[keiser31]

1 hour ago, Laughing Coyote said:

This. I need to be able to haul my finished products. You only have so much room in a 2500 Silverado ext cab. I need to lay things flat.

https://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/d/1966-chrysler-town-and/6444586715.html

Only 9,035 of those were made. GREAT CAR!

Edited January 4, 2018 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[bobg1951chevy]

2 hours ago, Laughing Coyote said:

I'm looking at a mid 60's Chrysler product and wanted to know if the 383 is a good engine and the 727 torqueflite is a good transmission. Just looking for input from people that have owned them. 

Thanks

If you were around in the '60's, you would know the combination  of a 383 and 727  was an  unbeatable combo at the drag strip.

Best part is this ....... failures were next to none.

And I speak to you as a Chevy guy who saw many Chrysler product tail lights. !

[Rusty_OToole]

State of the art for the time. The 383 was the smaller version of Chrysler's B engine, the other being the RB or raised deck B engine of 413, 426 or 440 cu in. These were among the toughest longest living engines made, and of course, the 383 was the least stressed of all.

 

Torqueflite was the first 3 speed + torque converter transmissions, copied by GM for their TurboHydramatic (they paid royalties on Torqueflite patents). Very durable, and reliable transmission that had considerable success in drag racing where it was abused without mercy.

 

With a good tuneup expect 16MPG on the hiway.

[lump]

Chrysler's 727 transmission was legendary at the drag strips, back in the day. 383 engines were solid, durable work horses. Not the drag-strip-monster engine that it's larger brother engines were, like the 440 magnum or the 426 wedge, But very respectable. Chrysler had many reliable workhorse engines, come to think of it, like the slant six, and the 318. They ran seemingly forever. 

 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Not ONE negative, Coyote. Not one.   Have you bought it yet?

 

  Looks like a nice wagon.

 

  Ben

[Rusty_OToole]

I wouldn't mind buying that car myself although $6900 seems high, but then everything seems high to me these days. You wouldn't touch it here for less than $10,000 - $15,000.

[JACK M]

383/727

[Moparite]

One thing that was not mentioned it was produced when leaded gas was available. The heads do not have hardened valve seats. Running today's gas will cause the valves to wear into the head. If you plan on actually driving it i would do some freshening up with the motor. You can get hardened valve seats put in the existing heads or get later castings ones that have them. As mentioned they used timing gears with a plastic coating that breaks off and falls into the pan. A new double roller set will fix this. And i'm sure the gaskets on a 50 year old motor will need to be replaced(oil leaks). Don't take this is as a negative just pointing out a few things! I own nothing but mopars and you will not be sorry if you purchase it.

[Rusty_OToole]

I would run it on modern gas with a shot of Marvel Mystery Oil, Redex, or similar upper cylinder lube. 70 up B and RB engines had flame hardened valve seats. The heads will interchange.

 

It seems to be mostly GM and Ford cars that suffer from crumbling nylon timing gears. In any case the stock gears and silent chain will last for at least 20 years, how long do you plan on keeping it?

Edited January 4, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[lump]

Love the carburetors on that old factory "cross ram" manifold, sticking out the hood sides on that old hot rod, Jack M

[EmTee]

Practically indestructible. 

[61polara]

Deleted, duplicate info 

Edited January 5, 2018 by 61polara
deleted post duplicate info (see edit history)

[Laughing Coyote]

I called the owner and talked with him for a bit on the wagon. It doesn't have AC. Not a big deal breaker, but would be nice since I live in the desert. He told me he bought from a guy who bought if from an estate sale. It came from the Washington/Idaho area. It has some body filler on the upper rear pillars by the back windows on on the passenger front fender. Don't know if that is covering up (rust, dent, ?) He also told me he bought it lowered and he took off the original muffle and put on a cherry bomb. I'm going to have to take a day to drive out there and see what else there is that he may not be telling me. I'm sure more to come. Thanks for all the info so far.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Laughing Coyote (see edit history)

[Bloo]

You can expect a Washington state car to be rusty in the bottom of the rear quarter panels, behind the rear wheels, where the dirt sits. There are plugs to wash it out, but nobody ever does. I sure would not expect to see rust way up high like that. Probably dents.

 

The lowering job probably didn't damage that much. The front suspension cranks down (and back up) with a wrench. They probably did that, and then put lowering blocks on the rear springs. Maybe they cut the front bump stops off. Maybe it is just sitting on them.

 

It probably needs the rear springs re-arched if you really want to go all the way back up to stock ride height. Sometimes a wee bit lower is fine......

 

A/C is probably a liability on that car anyway. They were R12 (of course) with a big "V" compressor mounted up high right in the way of everything. Most Washington state cars didn't have A/C in those days, so it isn't at all surprising to see it without.

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Bloo (see edit history)

[padgett]

However a hard sell in Tuscon without AC and not that hard to add an underdash R134 unit particularly if doing heads and a front end service at the same time.

[Bloo]

As much as I don't really like those, it would be hands down the best answer on a car like this if you just HAD to have A/C. I can't help but wonder if a modern compressor would fit down low on the passenger side. Probably not, but it's a nice thing to think about.

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

The torsion bar front end can easily be lowered by loosening the adjuster screws, and raised back up in a few minutes by tightening them. You need a lift or jack to raise the front off the wheels to take the load off.

 

Back springs most likely lowered by lowering blocks. Look where the axle bolts onto the spring, if you see a rectangular block of steel that is the lowering block. These can be easily removed but notice if the U bolts have enough thread to tighten without the blocks. You have to use longer U bolts with the lowering blocks, to remove them you might have to buy new U bolts.

 

A good spring shop or alignment shop can set everything to factory specs. If you get an alignment done get a new set of  shock absorbers, you will feel like you are driving a Rolls Royce.

[lump]

54 minutes ago, Bloo said:

As much as I don't really like those, it would be hands down the best answer on a car like this if you just HAD to have A/C. I can't help but wonder if a modern compressor would fit down low on the passenger side. Probably not, but it's a nice thing to think about.

 

 

Here in southern Ohio there was a gentleman who owned several Mopar Airflow sedans, all painted black (if I recall correctly). He had custom-fitted very small AC compressors at the bottom of the front of the engine in every one of them. He explained that he really liked to drive them, especially in beautiful sunny weather. But driving a big old black sedan w/out AC was not his idea of a good time. He had worked pretty hard to keep the little compressors as discreet as possible, on the otherwise stock engines. Looked great to me. (I THINK he may have also converted the cars to 12 volt, to accommodate the AC systems, but I this do not recall clearly. I was last at his shop near between Xenia and Waynesville, Ohio about 30 years ago.) 

Edited January 5, 2018 by lump (see edit history)

[JACK M]

19 hours ago, lump said:

Love the carburetors on that old factory "cross ram" manifold, sticking out the hood sides on that old hot rod, Jack M

 

Thanks Lump.

I like to be different just like everyone else.

[James-Wahl Motors]

Neat car. Looks good to me - except the pop-riveted (and painted over) VIN tag is a little fishy. I can't see what that car could be hiding, though, and it's not uncommon for those to fall off. I've had a couple 383s, and I'll agree with all the positive comments. I think they might even be the "sweet spot" compared to other B/RB engines I've had.

 

As far as adding the "modern compressor ... down low on the passenger side" a friend in Florida did that on a '64 Dodge pickup with a 440. He said it's a smaller compressor and adequate for the pickup cab but he thinks it wouldn't cool a whole car enough. Also you have to remove the fuel pump and go electric.

 

 

 

 

[Bleach]

 

 

This picture bothers me more than the pop riveted and painted over vin tag. I think the rivets are stock.

There looks like some serious bondo here in the spare tire well.

[Bloo]

That VIN tag doesn't bother me at all. I don't recall if they were painted or not, but otherwise it looks normal. The other tag under the hood is painted by the factory for sure.  Also, it still has the certicard! You will find the original (or second) owner's name and address on that.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Moparite]

I see a lot of modern compressors on big blocks, Even ones with the fresh air package.

https://originalair.com/mopar-compressor-upgrades

[keiser31]

Here is the engine that goes in the 1968 Dodge Dart GTS 383 four barrel I used to own....

[Buffalowed Bill]

Great looking car. It looks well worth your effort to take  a look. A little rust showing in the rear wheel well area, but I would be surprised if there is any other rust. I've got a number of western Washington cars with virtually no rust. From 1940's through the mid 2000's the only place(s) that I know of that used salt was Spokane and maybe Yakama.

[Bleach]

I've seen a lot of older rusty cars in WA & OR where there is no salt use. It rains a lot. Mud sticks to the inside of wheel wells and other under body areas. There's a guy not far from me that has a 63 Fury and it has a lot of rust. His dad was the original owner. There is rust places I never thought would rust. This is a car that's always been in WA or OR.

[Bleach]

John, that 383 would be right at home in your Triumph.

[SC38dls]

That 383 would be a beast in the Triumph!  I put a 289 in an Austin Healy and blew all the spokes out of the rear wheels. Kids have to have fun somehow. 

[Rusty_OToole]

There is rust in the spare tire well, around the wheel arch and possibly some other places. Being from the rust belt this doesn't bother me as it is minor, and to be expected on a 60 year old car. However you should inspect underneath for rust and be prepared to spend some money on repairs, or just touch it up yourself but in any case, stop the rust from spreading.

[Xander Wildeisen]

I put a 440 and 727 in my first Hudson shop truck. Great engine/trans, I do remember the engine being thirsty. Should have bought stock in Chevron.  

[keiser31]

2 hours ago, Bleach said:

John, that 383 would be right at home in your Triumph.

That Tr-3 belongs to the same guy who now owns my Dart GTS.