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Hershey 2017. Swap Meet or Parking Lot/ Camp Grounds ??


48woodie

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Although none of the pictures you've posted were of my spot, I'll be the first to tell you that in January, 2016 I paid for my spots.  Three weeks before Hershey I was in a motorcycle accident and was messed up really bad.  I made it down there for Friday and show day, but when I made it down there, I was there for a parking spot.  I could barely stand, walking was even harder, and I was in no shape to sell anything.

 

This year I was set up at my space, but I would hate to lose my spaces based on that happened to me last year.  I know a lot of guys who set up that are AACA Judges, so they don't bring a lot of stuff but they do set up.  Sometimes they're open, sometimes they're out looking just like you are.

 

You should also aware that you have some vendors who are AACA National Directors.  Some of those guys who are directors used to set up, but now that they're directors, often when they get to Hershey, they get stretched too thin doing club business and don't get the time to set up.  I would hate to see a director be penalized and lose their vendor spots because they're doing club business to keep the business running.

 

Bear in mind that there are a couple of rows of parking in the Chocolate Field annex where the Hershey Region workers park their cars, it might look like a parking lot, but that area is reserved for the folks who work hard to put on a good show.  You can't punish the folks who are donating their time and efforts to put on event that we all enjoy.

 

Next year Chuck Crane will be the AACA National President.  Chuck sets up just down from where I set up.  Depending on what side you view his spot, Chuck's spot looks like a parking lot, but then Chuck and his wife take up a fair amount of space selling their vintage clothing.  That also bears on what side you're looking at.

 

I'm over by the Horseless Carriage tent.  On Friday they put on a big shindig where a lot of the HCCA members get together and have lunch.  There's nothing saying that vendors don't shut down their spot to go to that event or the High Wheeler races.

 

Are there people who abuse the flea market spaces??  Absolutely!!  But there are also some vendors who are there in the Flea Market who have a legitimate reason not to set up, or they might not be set up when you happen to go by their spot.  What may look like a parking lot in some areas, there is a good reason.

 

 

Edited by ex98thdrill (see edit history)
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Having attended since 1972, I agree that there was a change this year. Several others also commented about the empty spaces, rv parking, and just plain tag sale spaces with none or almost no car related items. With fine weather, attendance down, many fewer vendors, and costs going way up, we decided that this year was our last year vending. We rent a 20 x 80 tent, port a potty, truck &trailer, fuel, tolls, hotel, and VERY overpriced food that can only be called terrible on the field.......we have had enough. I don't like to complain, and that's why I have waited so long to talk about it. I didn't want to be the first on the site to pull the trigger. We will still attend, but for a shorter length so we can still see all our car friends. Time marches on, and things change, sadly it's clear the Fall Meet is changing direction from where it has been. Ed

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Yes it is.  You have several factors....

1.  Age - Most of the vendors are retirement age and they've gotten too old to do it.

2.  E-Bay - You can sell things on E-Bay, you don't have to deal with the weather, you don't have to carry it, you don't have to move it and you don't have to get beat up by some idiot who watches Pawn Stars or American Pickers who wants you to pay $80 per space and give it to them for nothing.  From a buyer's standpoint, you can find it quicker and not have to spend four days trying to find a needle in a haystack.  There's a lot of stuff that we have found online that we wouldn't have ever gotten had it not been for the internet.

3.  Reproduction market - When I was a kid, my father used to trade one box of Ford parts for two boxes of Mopar parts because the Fords were in demand, while the Mopar stuff nobody wanted.  If you're restoring a Ford, you can go onto that show field and buy almost everything you need brand new.  Forty years ago you had to scrounge.

4.  HERCO - Herco won't let the vendors go in until 7am, and they want the visitors out of the parking lots at 5pm.  That doesn't give you a lot of time to set up and sell.  By 5:20 you might as well close up because there isn't hardly anyone in sight.  Back in the day people would stay open well into the evening because the people were there to spend money, they had time to do it, and the vendors had the incentive to stay open.  I don't think we've ever sold anything after 6pm.  If the people were there we'd stay open.

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I'd also be curious when your pictures were taken.  It almost looks like Saturday morning to me....and by then the vending is basically over. 

 

A lot of vendors start packing up Friday afternoon.  Unlike in the past, the days for the flea market are Wednesday and Thursday, Tuesday afternoon a lot of vendors are set up, and as mentioned Friday it starts to wind down.

 

I camp on the field at my selling spot, and have stayed over Saturday morning for the show, and you can basically have your choice of parking spots on the Orange or Green field Saturday morning.....

 

I have sold a lot of stuff on Ebay and understand the concept, but there's nothing like face to face discussions.  I met a lot of people I'd been corresponding with, even put one new friend on to a Juki sewing machine I knew about.  You also hear about cars and parts for sale, the networking that takes place at Hershey is important.

 

For some of us old timers, Hershey is becoming more about the people one sees and less about the cars and parts....

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I injured my foot on the Monday of Hershey week.  I was attending as a spectator, but at the comparatively young age of 46 I found myself counting my steps.  The "reasons" above might be accurate, but surely they cover a small minority of the empty acreage I witnessed on Friday this year.  I felt bad for the lone vendors setup between empty spots... I probably wasn't trudging up the entire length of the row just to see their goods.  Sadly, those making a real effort to sell are being impacted by the parkers and campers.

 

The car corral only appeared about 3/4 full on Friday.  In past years, vacated spots seemed to be quickly recycled.

 

The world is changing, as is the hobby.  Hershey needs some corrective measures to refocus the swap meet so the shoppers and vendors get a fair shake.

Edited by gpfarrell (see edit history)
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I was set up on the Chocolate field and felt the same thing when I got out to walk this year.   A lot of empty spaces and multi-unit camping areas.  I am a bit prejudice on the vendors selling as I like to close and get out and shop too at times, I also attend several club meetings during the week that mean time away from the booth. 

 

I also felt the crowd was very light this year with the best selling day I had on Thursday.  The crowd was terrible on Tuesday, better on Wed and evaporated at literally 4:30 on Friday.  I looked down the row at 4:30 and saw a light amount of people but at 4:40 I noticed I could see all the way to the south end with only a couple of walkers in sight!

 

My pet peeve is with the vendors.  When the forecast Thursday called for 40% chance of rain that afternoon (with a good forecast for Friday) I saw vendors packing with a small steady stream exiting the field all afternoon.  None of us like rain but this gets worse every year it seems.  If rain is mentioned some immediately pack it in.  That doesn't help entice the buyers to stay or even come so the spiral continues. 

 

I do think aging out has a lot to do with all of this, the convenience and saved travel cost of internet shopping and the HERCO issues all have a lot do with what I too see is a disturbing change/trend for the Fall Meet.  Next year is 40 non stop years for me, love it and will keep going but it is definitely not what it was in the 80's or 90's.

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I turned 60 this year and attended my 21st consecutive Hershey meet. In the last 10 years my wife and I have had to over come a lot of health issues both big and small to continue our string of visits. This still is the most wonderful automotive event in the world in our opinion. I have read all the comments about parking, attendance, vendors and the effect that both time and the internet have made on our hobby. I can tell you eBay is a poor source for buying and selling anything, and I have done both. There is nothing like seeing it, touching it, smelling it and negotiating on it face to face. The food in Hershey is wonderful and yes expensive, but folks who own 50 and 60 thousand dollar cars should not complain about the cost of eating out, there is always McDonalds. We come to Hershey to see our friends, some that we only see once a year. It is about the experience, which is the only thing we take to the grave. We as hobbiest have done such a poor job of getting young people involved and have priced it right out of there budget. Want to help Hershey and our hobby grow, get your kids, and grandkids involved. Maybe re evaluate letting in customs and hot rods. We are getting older, so while we can, give back to the hobby instead of pissing and moaning about shoppers not wanting to spend $5000 on a $300 sign and weather or not a vendor parks in a space he paid for. Thank you for allowing me to express my opinion.

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Ex98thdrill mentioned a couple of concerning things.

 

He knows AACA Judges that use their spaces for parking "throwing out a few things so it looks like they're selling.

 

He knows of National Directors who no longer sell from their spaces.....and use them to park.

 

And why would prime spaces in the Chocolate Fields be used for employee parking.

 

Looks like the typical abuse of the Government.

 

Mike

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I've been going to Hershey for 15 years as a buyer and I've always seen the empty spots, camping spots, and cars just parked. It might be worse than in the past and I am in the camp that would like to see vendors consolidated and a " premium parking" section for those that need or want it.

Long term, I think there will always be a place for Hershey. I am just a hobbyist, and I don't make a living from it, but I've been selling (and buying) stuff on EBay since 1998. There are things that are not easily sold there that are at a swap meet. Oversized items, back issues of magazines, fragile items, etc.

I was a vendor at Hershey for the first time this year and I think it worked out well. Wednesday was the most productive for me and I got rid of lots of big old stuff cluttering up my garage, met lots of nice people, and I had fun. Now I live local so my outlay of dollars was less than some others but it was well worth it for me.

By the way my space was empty Thursday after 3 and all day Friday for family reasons.

I'll be selling again next year.

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 We paid over $700 for two nights for a standard hotel room at the Lodge.. Because we wanted to. This is not a hobby for people who are counting their pennies, sorry to say. Life is short so enjoy it as much as you can. Never know if you will be here next year to enjoy the World's great car show.

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On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 5:49 PM, 48woodie said:

Ex98thdrill mentioned a couple of concerning things.

 

He knows AACA Judges that use their spaces for parking "throwing out a few things so it looks like they're selling.

 

He knows of National Directors who no longer sell from their spaces.....and use them to park.

 

And why would prime spaces in the Chocolate Fields be used for employee parking.

 

Looks like the typical abuse of the Government.

 

Mike

No it isn't.

 

1.  The judges can have a flea market space, and they can sell, but what's to say that they have to be open all day, every day when you walk by??  Most of the guys I know who are judging, set up, but then they pack up on Friday.

 

2.  National Directors - You obviously have no idea the workload that those guys have.  Are you saying that the national directors should give up their spaces because they can't sit in their spots due to the meetings that they have to sit through??  When Terry Bond was on the National Board you seldem ever saw him on his spot.  Now that he's off of the National Board, he's back at his spot.  When Herb Oakes was alive, he had his motorhome on his spot and would sell vintage license plates as time permitted.  When he was National President, he left his motorhome at home because he was at Hershey Lodge.  Don Barlup was a lot more visible at his spot before he became a National Director.  When Don was National President, you hardly ever saw him because he was busy.

 

3.  Hershey Region workers - You have people who are volunteers who are working their butts off trying to put on a good show.  Are you saying that they have to park way out of the way to make you happy??  A lot of those folks are not young by any means, yet they're working a full day and a parking spot for these volunteers is the least you can do for them.  It isn't like their parking is scattered, there is one section where most of them park together.

 

Several years ago I was approached to run for a position on the national board.  I refused to do it, I was pushed, I pushed back, rubbed some people the wrong way and I've paid for it ever since.  It's gotten to the point where all we do now is show our cars and go home.  The reason I said no has was never for lack of love for the hobby or the club, but I've seen the crap those guys have to deal with, and I don't have the time, the money or the desire to deal with that crap to the level that the job requires.

 

I'm sorry you don't like the fact that the AACA National Directors get stuck in meetings and can't be at their flea market spots.  I'm also sorry that people who are in their 70's and even 80's come in before 7am, and work until 5am and are given a parking spot as compensation for working for free.

 

What you think is abuse of government is not the case at all.  Without these folks busting their tales, there would be no club and there would be no Hershey.  I highly recommend you get more involved so that you can understand the whole picture. 

 

Bear in mind there is nothing written anywhere as to what time the vendors have to be there, and how long they have to stay.  At $80 a spot, if business is bad, they might cut their losses, pack up and head home.

Edited by ex98thdrill (see edit history)
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Dear Ex98thdril,

 

# 1. Lets say you drive to the mall to go to Sears to buy a tool you really need...you get there and they're closed. On the door is a sign..."We will be closed part of the day Wednesday, we might be open some of the day Thursday, but we will be closed all day Friday. Would you drive back just to see if they are open ????  I don't think so.

 

This is no way to run a business or an AACA Swap Meet / Car Show.

 

# 2. The same answer as number # 1. If a Vendor can not manage their space during normal business hours then they should not have a space.

 

I realize that they will need to use the washroom or have breakfast, lunch and supper.

 

# 3. Reverse everything.....So you're saying that the shopper should have to park miles away, which they do. Then they have to walk all day to see that 30% of the swap meet is being used for parking and camping.  Most of the shoppers are as old if not older than the volunteers .

 

Lets say you go to the same mall as just as they open to get a parking space close to the doors and all the parking spaces near the doors are full. You then have to walk all the way through the parking lot to get to the doors only to find out that all the employees, security, maintenance, Management, owners etc. are allowed to use all the close parking.

 

This is a Swap Meet not a parking lot/ Camp grounds. It doesn't matter who you are or what you have to do the the show. Swap spaces are for selling....as advertised.....Wednesday through Saturday (Oct4 -7th, 2017).

 

Maybe they should change the Wed Page Ad to " 9,000 vendors.....well almost 9,000 vendors....5 %of the spaces are used by the Board of Directors and Judges.....5 % is for the workers.....10 % is for camping...10 % is for random parking. ( See attached photos).

 

I was on the Board of Directors of one of the larger car clubs and one of our biggest concerns is "How do we get younger people interested and involved in vintage car clubs".  Having them come to a swap meet and have to wade through empty swap space isn't going to do it.

 

Not everyone can take off work or family obligations Wednesday , Thursday and Friday especially if you are young. Closing early on Friday and not opening at all on Saturday is not far to those who have to work for a living.

 

And again.....who buys an $ 8.00 milk shake?

 

There is a lot of abuse of the swap spaces and I hope it can be corrected.

 

Mike

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If you read the Swap Space Registration form it states that the Flea Market is open Wednesday through Saturday, 7 am until 5 pm.

 

It also states that " No Flea Market swap spaces shall be solely used for camping or parking". (#4).

 

Are the rules set by the AACA only for us common people ?????

 

Setting out a card table with grandma's crocheted  pot holder does not constitute an swap space.

 

Oh yah.........Who buys an $ 8.00 milk shake ?

 

Mike

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Ha, me thinks some are confused between a business and a hobby.

 

Most of the business run spots are staffed the whole time, me as a one man show hobbiest will do as I please and if it don't please you.....too bad. I'll be at my site when I can and when I can't I won't.

 

I do not make a living offering the parts I've accumulated and frankly I am usually under water when all is said and done, but if someone needs or wants what I have and it helps their project along or brings them a little joy that's great. But I am not going to be waiting with baited breath for someone to come along if I don't want to be there every minute of every day.

 

And 48 is way off base, that is not employee parking in the Chocolate field it is VOLUNTEER parking. Hats off to them.

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Sure is a lively chat here.  48 Woodie, sorry your glass is half empty.   For many of us it's a hobby, not a business as has been pointed out.  Still, I did great and have no complaints.  I also found some great stuff this year.   My booth was open while I served as an AACA director for 15 years, but on a limited basis.   I had a smaller than usual display this year because of my broken leg, so if a few things on a table at my spot disappointed you I humbly apologize for the limitations dictated by my medical situation.  I'll try to do better next time.  Be warned however,  you'll not find me there when I'm out shopping, and you'll also not find me there during certain hours on Friday when I try to attend the Spark Plug Collectors of America meeting way over by the old stadium, or on Friday afternoon when we try to be at the Buzzards Breath Touring Region meeting. This year I also attended a Continuing Judges Education session.  Of course Saturday I also had judging obligations to fulfill on the showfield.   You'll also find me closing up early on Thursday so we can take our turn at the AACA membership booth late in the afternoon.  If you wander on by during those times you are more than welcome to take a picture of my  space, but personally, when I take pictures at Hershey it's of neat old cars and great stuff piled on tables.  I hope you enjoy next year's event, I can promise great weather, and I highly recommend you try the crab cakes.  

Terry

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Pile of stuff.jpg

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Terry,

 

My glass is normally over flowing.

 

Please don't get me wrong....I love Hershey. And I found a lot of great items to buy and got to see many friends that only see once a year.

 

I appreciate all the hard work that everyone does. It takes many hours of preplanning just to have the show. And many, many more hour to run the show.

 

I just feel that someone has to speak up.

 

I have been going to Hershey since 1982.

 

Over the past 10 years I have noticed that more and more spaces are not being used for Selling.

 

If a person reads the Flea Market Registration and makes a decision to purchase a space then he or she must abide by the rules.

 

How sad who it be for a young enthusiast to travel 10 minutes, 1 hour or 6 hours to go to his or hers first big Saturday Swap meet and gets there and no one is there vending.

 

Maybe he or she takes Friday off work to find 1/3 of the spaces empty in the morning or 1/2 empty in the afternoon because vendors decide to go to a meeting or just go home.

 

Can't these meeting be held after 5 pm when the flea market closes ?????

 

Can't the organizers have an area just off the vendor areas for volunteer parking.

 

There is plenty of parking just to the South and North of the Giant center, just South East of the South Red Field and just east of the North Red Field.

 

Are the Hershey Fall Meet Organizers afraid to admit that they have a problem. Is it to hard to Police. Or is it Status Quo..let the next guy handle it. Or if I rock the boat I might lose my great Parking Space/ Camping area.

 

I'd love to be on the Board of Directors for the show. Think of the benefits. 

 

Actually how do I apply for a position.

 

Still wondering who buys $ 8.00 milk shakes ?? I can afford it...but why?

 

Mike

 

 

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Thanks for your response.  The Hershey Region, who actually organizes the fall meet, including the swap meet, reviews everything about the event, and starts planning for next year immediately,  and I'm sure they would be interested in your thoughts. Rather than try and organize the event on this forum you  should compose a nice letter outlining your thoughts and ideas and address it directly to the Hershey Region AACA.  I know you have a concern for the future of the event, and you raise some interesting points so thanks for having the courage to speak up.  Just be sensitive to the fact that each vendor is an individual. 

 

You would need to be a member of the Hershey Region in order to be on their board of directors. It's a very large group of dedicated volunteers who run this event, and if you were a part of that group there would be very little of your time available for either vending or shopping. There is designated volunteer parking near the Giant Center, and other locations throughout the various fields. 

 

What you mention about casual or first time visitors is unfortunately true.  Last year I was packing up late on Saturday and had a couple stop by indicating they had heard that there was a car show and flea market that day.  They showed up at about 3:30PM.  I explained the whole thing to them, handed them an AACA application and let them know the best thing they could do is join the club.  They did, and this year they came by on Friday afternoon to tell me how much they appreciated the help.  Yes, unfortunately, if Sears is having a big sale, there will still be customers to who show up a day late, or after all the goodies are gone. 

 

Don't know why you are hung up on over-priced milk shakes, but then again on a hot day at the ball park, that $5 beer tastes mighty good.

 

Hope the post Hershey season is good for you and that you'll be back again next year to find some goodies.

Terry

 

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18 years ago my wife and I would spend two days walking the flea market including the old airport. There was sooo much to see and look at. We were'nt really looking for any particular parts but there was soooo much to see. The rows were chock-a-block with vendors hawking everything imaginable. There was soooo much to see.

Wednesday I brought a car to the corral to sell. About noon I thought I'd walk the market for a bit. After all, there was soooo much to see.

After maybe three rows of walking and seeing maybe  8 vendors  my knees and hips  brought me to my senses.

There was soooo little to see.

Well, I did sell my car.......................Bob

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I had not been to Hershey since 2010. My life has changed in many ways over those few years and stayed the same, as well. I just went to be amerced in car stuff. I tied up Friday and Saturday and spent something like $300. I didn't need anything special and had no desire to carry things around. Lots of windshield time, too. And I never turned the radio on, 10 hours or so driving for me.

 

All old people there. I saw one old guy sitting in a space and wondered what obsolete thoughts the five red blood cells he had left were churning up in his brain.

 

It was annoying to have campers and trucks parked with bumpers touching to close off the territory of spaces. I wouldn't have been surprised to see someone peeing in the corners to mark their space. It reminded me of how the Sooner state got its name.

 

Although I wanted to go to Hershey in 1974, I didn't make it until 1990 for the first time. I went up RT81, got off at Manada Hills, and came in by RT39. Coming over that last hill in 1990 the whole meet spread out in front of me, lots of advertising balloons, bright tents, and cars all around. It is a lifetime memory. I took that route this year. The view coming over the hill was hardly inspiring. A coupe of balloons, dark camping trailers replaced the tents, and overgrown trees adjacent to state property detracted from the view.

 

I plan on being back next year. The itemized cost accounting is entertaining. It made me remember I left a $5 tip for my $7 breakfast Saturday morning. Over the years watching car collectors deal with money has been the most entertaining part. My Grandfather used to say "He's got fish hooks in his pocket." I like to tell about the two old Buick owners who got ahold of a penny and invented copper wire.

 

I'm happy. What's a psychiatrist get $400 per hour? It was two days of mental health at a bargain.

 

And you know, if you put people in a lineup, the complainers are real easy to spot. Almost like their forehead was rubber stamped.

Bernie

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Went to Hershey a couple of times in mid 60s with my parents, went back as an adult in 71 and have had a space since 72. In 71 we went with friends and didn't get there till around noon on Saturday and vendors were leaving. In all the years of vending at Hershey I don't think we sold $100 worth of stuff on Saturday all the years put together. We always stayed till Sunday morning till the year someone came around and told us we needed to be out by 6am Sunday, we said ok, we were woke up at around 3am when the porta-potty people started pumping out johns and loading them up, smell and noise.

Back then we lived 5 hours away and could not sleep in our truck camper if we had our flea market stuff loaded so we started driving straight through Saturday afternoon to go home.

This year someone came around Saturday morning while I was at the show and asked my wife if she had any more trash to throw away because they were going to start picking up trash cans soon. 

Probably the easiest solution to the Saturday flea market problem is to stop advertising the flea market on Saturday. Saturday is car show day.

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1 hour ago, 48woodie said:

Now you won't be able to afford an $ 8.00 Milk Shake. :(

 

And $800 for the motel, Is that the one percent I keep hearing all the rhetoric about? I knew it was going to come close to me sometime!

 

"I was looking for sympathy and all they had was empathy. Why were they laughing?"

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It's not just Hershey, it seems to be a good share of the old car hobby is gone.  I drove about 2000 miles - that's right, two thousand miles - ONE WAY - to go to Hershey this year with my wife.  We had not been there for 26 years but finally found ourselves without kids at home to raise so we decided to get back to the car hobby.  We started walking the first day, looking at the vendor items and found, like many others, too many empty spaces or too many vehicle's just parked and it made for a LOT of wasted walking.  I found a few parts that I would have bought if it were not for the high prices.  It would be impossible to "restore" an old car that was built for the working man (Dodge, Chevy, Plymouth and so on) and still be able to eat.  Perhaps it HAS become a rich mans game now.  Too bad as there are a lot of good old cars waiting for the average working person to fix up and enjoy - but, the average working person can not afford to pay $100.00 + dollars for a single tail light lens for an average, lower priced car.  I also experienced a couple of vendors that were less than friendly.  They ask me to make an offer and what I felt was a fair price was evidently way to low in their view so they made it a point to let me know they were not going to even talk to me. Why ask, then get mad about it?? My wife and I were excited about getting back into the meets, but after my experience this year at Hershey, I will stick to E-Bay, the forums and local swap meets where there are still people that want to see these old cars back on the road and to help people get them there. No more BIG meets for me.
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On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 8:01 PM, Terry Bond said:

Sure is a lively chat here.  48 Woodie, sorry your glass is half empty.   For many of us it's a hobby, not a business as has been pointed out.  Still, I did great and have no complaints.  I also found some great stuff this year.   My booth was open while I served as an AACA director for 15 years, but on a limited basis.   I had a smaller than usual display this year because of my broken leg, so if a few things on a table at my spot disappointed you I humbly apologize for the limitations dictated by my medical situation.  I'll try to do better next time.  Be warned however,  you'll not find me there when I'm out shopping, and you'll also not find me there during certain hours on Friday when I try to attend the Spark Plug Collectors of America meeting way over by the old stadium, or on Friday afternoon when we try to be at the Buzzards Breath Touring Region meeting. This year I also attended a Continuing Judges Education session.  Of course Saturday I also had judging obligations to fulfill on the showfield.   You'll also find me closing up early on Thursday so we can take our turn at the AACA membership booth late in the afternoon.  If you wander on by during those times you are more than welcome to take a picture of my  space, but personally, when I take pictures at Hershey it's of neat old cars and great stuff piled on tables.  I hope you enjoy next year's event, I can promise great weather, and I highly recommend you try the crab cakes.  

Terry

 

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 9:56 PM, Terry Bond said:

Thanks for your response.  The Hershey Region, who actually organizes the fall meet, including the swap meet, reviews everything about the event, and starts planning for next year immediately,  and I'm sure they would be interested in your thoughts. Rather than try and organize the event on this forum you  should compose a nice letter outlining your thoughts and ideas and address it directly to the Hershey Region AACA.  I know you have a concern for the future of the event, and you raise some interesting points so thanks for having the courage to speak up.  Just be sensitive to the fact that each vendor is an individual.

 

You would need to be a member of the Hershey Region in order to be on their board of directors. It's a very large group of dedicated volunteers who run this event, and if you were a part of that group there would be very little of your time available for either vending or shopping. There is designated volunteer parking near the Giant Center, and other locations throughout the various fields. 

 

What you mention about casual or first time visitors is unfortunately true.  Last year I was packing up late on Saturday and had a couple stop by indicating they had heard that there was a car show and flea market that day.  They showed up at about 3:30PM.  I explained the whole thing to them, handed them an AACA application and let them know the best thing they could do is join the club.  They did, and this year they came by on Friday afternoon to tell me how much they appreciated the help.  Yes, unfortunately, if Sears is having a big sale, there will still be customers to who show up a day late, or after all the goodies are gone. 

 

Don't know why you are hung up on over-priced milk shakes, but then again on a hot day at the ball park, that $5 beer tastes mighty good.

 

Hope the post Hershey season is good for you and that you'll be back again next year to find some goodies.

Terry

 

Terry, you owe NO ONE an apology.  I can remember trying to touch base with you at Hershey in years past when you were on the board and you'd be in meetings until almost 11 at night.  Knowing the hours that Herb, Steve, Tom, Joe Vicini, Joe Gagliano, Hulon, Don, Mike, Dave Zimmerman and the rest of you kept during Hershey week, I don't know how you did it, often questioned why you did it, but always appreciated the fact that it was done. 

 

With that in mind, you have a decent Flea Market spot over by the Giant Center.  When you were on the board, you shouldn't have been chastised because you couldn't be at your spot all of the time because of your duties as a National Director, nor should you have been forced to surrender those spaces.  The fact that you still paid the money for your spots and didn't have time to recover the dough you shelled out in those spots says a lot too.  I understand the price you paid and don't like the fact that someone finds it as "abuse in government" because you paid for your spaces and couldn't be there all the time.

 

You know that I fall under the younger group, I work a lot of hours, I don't have a large pile of cash, I don't have a large amount of vacation time, I only get weekends off once every six weeks, and my dad and I pool our money in able to be able to afford to do what we do.  With that in mind, to spend what little time I have in meetings never appealed to me.  As I had told Joe Gagliano in the past, I've watched you guys run your butts off and you never had time to enjoy your own cars. 

 

You and I both know of people who ran for a board position, and once they got their term in as National President, jumped ship after they got what they wanted.  Had I caved in, I wouldn't have looked at a three year term, I'd have looked at 15 years.  I feel that 15 years is a long time to park your cars to be tied down to the board.  I know it needs to be done by someone (21 people), I never would've done it for the power or the title, I could've cared less about the recognition, but I'm not the one who wants to do it because I would've left my father high and dry in terms of the building and maintaining the cars.  It would mean a bigger strain on me financially and in time.

 

As a vendor myself, I have five spots.  When you figure in our trailer and the truck we pull it with, I don't have merchandise on all five of my spots, and you have to have a means to get your stuff onto your spots, and if someone thinks I should park my truck and trailer someplace else because of the no parking rule has lost their mind.  In the case of Chuck Crane, he has his motorhome on site next to his merchanise.  Does the motorhome take up space??  Yes it does, but by having his motorhome on site, he doesn't have to close up shop to go stand in line for that $8 milkshake or to go to the bathroom.

 

You are 100% correct that this is a hobby.  We're restoring stuff too, and I had to leave my space to go to Judging School, to get my Hershey souveniers, to renew my dues at another club, to get new catalogs from the vendors I do business with, etc.  I also have had a history of horse trading with other vendors for stuff that I need too.

 

When you've been around the hobby as long as we have, you also tend to get stopped by people who know you.  When that happens, that takes time, and it keeps you away from your space.  I'm not going to shut someone off to go please a disgruntled customer who may never do business with me anyways.

 

In terms of the complaint about the Flea Market getting full use, I suppose the next complaint will be that the AACA Library or the Museum should be chastised because they're not open 24 hours like Wal Mart is.....

 

We pay for our Flea Market spots, but that doesn't mean someone should expect us to be chained to those spots for four days.  Whether we're selling or buying, Hershey is a great event, but it's not our life.

 

By the way, in case I haven't said this to you in a while, thank you for dedicating 15 years of service to the club as a national director.  When I chaired that national meet, I saw firsthand what you and the others did, and I was floored when I understood the time and stuff you guys had to do.

 

One more thing that I forgot??  Hats off to the Hershey Region for another great event.  I know I've said this before, what brought me into AACA to begin with was so I could show a car at Hershey.  Had it not been for the Hershey event, I might not have ever joined AACA to begin with.

Edited by ex98thdrill (see edit history)
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Everything every one says is true.

But the club needs to keep it's eye on the prize. The prize is to provide vendors/parts for the buyers, draw buyers to the meet to provide revenue for the vendors, and expose potential members to the club.  I'm not so sure the prize is to provide an annual meeting place for old cronies or a close parking spot.

From my superficial observations and other's reports that's what seems to be happening.

Carried to it's logical conclusion: fewer buyers will show up because they are discouraged by empty spaces, fewer vendors will bother to set up thus making for more empty spaces meaning fewer buyers etc etc etc.

For awhile it will be sustained by the old crony/we've been coming here for 50 years guys but as their ranks thin even the die-hards will give it up and the only sound will be  those of crickets.

That's pretty much the definition of a death spiral.

I don't know enough or are smart enough to provide answers to the problem but it certainly looks like a problem..................Bob

 

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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Hard to quantify but I would wager that more than 50%  are there to LOOK at things other than parked trailers and empty spaces. I do know there are far fewer active vendors than there were 20 years ago. At some point the Hershey experience  will be less and less attractive if it's just a bunch of old guys sitting around talking about the old days. It's not just Hershey. I've seen it happen to any number of clubs/groups.

I'm not assigning blame or claiming I have a fix or even if there is a fix.

But if a thing can't adapt it likely doesn't survive......................Bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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Bob,

 

There are a lot of people who play a role in this. 

 

HERCO - The vendors are paying more money for spaces and they have fewer hours to sell.  Then when they limit how late the attendees can stay, it affects the vendors even more.  I wonder how many vendors even show up when they're only given 10 hours a day to sell.  To our good fortune, the muddy flea market fields are gone, but now you have a flea market entirely under lights and neither the vendors and/or buyers get the benefit of having the lights to stay out later to sell.

 

HOTELS - When the car show comes to town, the hotel owners spike the rates.  What would cost you at most other times $120 a night now goes to $250+ a night.  How many people can swing that??  Some can, but others can't.  Pay $1000+ for hotels and Flea market spaces, or pay $80 for an extra space.  If you can pay $400 for five Flea Market spaces and stay on site, you're $600+ ahead of the game, so the local merchants contribute to this problem as well.

 

COMMERCIAL COMPANIES - Think of the money it costs Corky Coker to have all of those spaces, all that inventory, and then having to make payroll, travel expenses, room and board??  Thankfully enough Corky still does it, but how many other companies can still afford to??  If you're paying $1,000 a week to put your employees in a hotel, think of what it's costing him to put two guys in a room, plus all of the staff he brings, plus paying for their travel, plus handling all of that inventory??  Look at how many of the big companies that no longer set up at Hershey...  I know Mac's Auto Parts, Bill Hirsch and Dennis Carpenter don't have near the stuff that they used to bring.  Rhode Island Wire has been gone for years.  Every year we go to Hershey, we usually order our stuff ahead of time and pick it up at Hershey. 

 

COSTS - The environmentalists haven't been good to our hobby.  Paint costs a lot more, patroleum costs are higher, chrome costs more and wages have gone up.  That's driven the prices up on the whole shooting match.

 

HERSHEY REGION - If you're a vendor and you have two spaces and want a third space, that doesn't always mean that you're going to get three spaces all connected.  You might get two spaces connected and your third space could be two rows away.  If that happens, are you going to run two separate Flea Market spots or are you going to set up at one spot and park your car in the other??  I'm not saying that the Hershey Region is wrong at this, but I'm 99% certain that this does play a role.  You can't expect the Hershey Region to shuffle the entire Flea Market field because one vendor wants to add or eliminate one spot.

 

As I mentioned before, I chaired a meet in the past, I've previously worked closely with the national directors, so I understand the logistics.  It is very difficult to put on a national meet, and the Hershey Region has done that for 62 consecutive years.  The meet I chaired was less than 1/3rd the size, and we didn't have 30 vendors let alone 1,000+. 

 

When you think about it, if you got involved with the very first Hershey meet back when you were 18 years old, and you still were involved with the meet today, you'd be at least 80 years old.  For several of these people, they've worked this event their entire adult lives.  There are a lot of people who have been born, worked their entire life, and retired all while the Hershey Region was putting on a national meet year after year.

 

I applaud what the Hershey Region does for the hobby every year.  Moneywise they're not hurting, but they work hard, and they've earned every penny that they've earned. 

 

What I don't appreciate is the "Abuse of Government" accusations from within the event when there are a lot of factors that run below the surface that many people don't see, are not aware of, don't understand and will never know about.  The Hershey event takes a lot of time to plan, a lot of people to do it, and it isn't a two hour job.

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It sounds like they are all valid reasons contributing to the decline of vendors. Addressing them may or may not be possible.

If they can be addressed and corrected more vendors  will show up. Good for everyone.

It's more likely they are not all correctable by the AACA/Hershey region.

So the question is: Should the show continue to sell 10,000 spaces knowing that only a fraction of them will be used to actually attract patrons to the show? Or would the over all and long term health of the show be best served by reducing the acreage of the  flea market  and limiting the spaces to those actually selling?

Speaking for myself, and I'm guessing most others, I'd much prefer wandering among 3000 actual vendors spread out over 5 acres than trying to find those same vendors hidden among campers, trailers, parked cars and empty spaces spread out over 15 acres. I know this last event I gave it up as "no fun" after 3 rows.

Some one made the observation that less than half the people are there to "buy".

If that's true, and I suspect it is, the question should be asked "why" are they there. The obvious answer is for entertainment. For fun. 

I'm fairly sure most, especially the older ones, don't find walking miles  while looking at mostly nothing entertaining. So, they don't come back and there aren't enough newbies to make up for the loss.

Maybe what the show needs is a  "director of entertainment"  rather than a committee of "we've always done it this way"

Adapt or die...............Hey, just sayin..............................Bob

 

 

 

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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I hesitate to wade into this discussion. I think that we can all agree that minimizing the "non-productive" spaces would be good. I too agree that it would be nice if the worker parking could be concentrated along the outer fringes of the swap meet fields as much as possible, rather than located in the center of the Chocolate Field North. I understand why it is where it is, but would really prefer if it could be located at the southern end of the Chocolate Field South. I should probably not suggest this, since I actually share one of Marty Roth's Chocolate Field South spaces. It might be necessary to eliminate some of the current spaces in the Chocolate Field South to do what I am suggesting.

 

It is going to be virtually impossible to make it "perfect". This year, I spent most of my time walking the fields finding things to buy for my current restoration project. In some years past, I spent almost 100% of my time Tuesday-Friday in the space, selling. This year, when I was not there, my stuff for sale was out with either one of the guys sharing our spaces there to collect or else a sign directing payments to be made with our neighbors at the adjacent space, who were there the entire time and who agreed to help us out. This year, I sold more while I was out shopping, than I sold in the times when I was personally in the space this year. 

 

I am always closed on Saturday since I judge at the show and then start the 8 hour drive home. Maybe it might make sense to close the swap meet and just have the show on Saturday but I think that having the swap meet available on Saturday does still help those younger people who can't take off work during the week. While Saturday may be slim pickings, it is better than none. I also suspect that anything they find on Saturday probably comes cheaper since those who are still vending are likely to lower prices for those fewer number of buyers who are there on Saturday.

 

I think that the internet has made it easier to find obscure parts that were only found at Hershey years ago. Unfortunately while making it easy to find stuff, the prices have gone up. It is no longer sitting on a table in front of a guy who does not want to have to pack it back up and take it back home. It is now on Ebay being watched by multiple people who all have a chance to bid against you.

 

I ordered lots of parts from vendors for Hershey delivery since it saves me on shipping charges. I also found some really great deals on a few things at Hershey this year. I bought some stuff from some nice people that offered me much better deals than I would have ever found online. The thrill of the hunt is still there, if you have the right attitude about it. It is still a great experience, even if we might want to look at the past with rose colored glasses.  

 

There is no way that the Hershey Region will ever be able to dedicate people to "policing" spaces the way some people seem to think that they should. They already run a very labor intensive operation staffed with a lot of volunteers. While not perfect, overall, I think they do a remarkable job. I hope to be able to return for many years to come.  

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Matt, you're 90% right on all accounts.  While your idea of having the Hershey Region workers parking on the south side of the Chocolate Field has merit, the problem with the Hershey Region rests the same as with almost ALL of the regions.  Those guys are getting old!!

 

Right now the Hershey Region worker parking is in a central location so everyone is walking about the same distances to wherever they're working.  If you change it with your idea, now you have the hassle of who has what mobility issues and then having to assign them in places that works for them while trying not to upset someone else.

 

The costs of doing business has driven everything up, but having the local merchants spike the prices on everything when we come to town doesn't help things either.  There isn't much anyone will ever do to fix that.  They see that cash cow coming, they know when we're coming, and they're cashing in...

 

Another thing to think about is how they've held evening events at the Music Box Theater during the week, but when everyone has to be out at 5pm, I would imagine that's a waste of time too.

 

I know Hershey is a big region, and they're a very wealthy region, but the question I have goes back to is there enough younger folks that will still be there to put on that meet 20 years from now??  It might not be in the not so far distant future where those guys might get to be too old to do this event.  That would be a tragedy!!

 

As much as I would've loved to have had AACA Headquarters up on the hill at the Museum, I am excited to see them going into the new building that they're going to and I can't wait to see it happen.  51 weeks a year it would be better on the hill, but during Hershey week the advantages are.

-  It's a beautiful building with room to grow.

-  On show day you can run judge's admin right out of the headquarters building because it's next to the showfield.  I'm sure it would give judges admin a better work area than what they normally get.

- The National Awards committee can work out of a room at headquarters on show day where they can work with no interruptions and in a nicer area I've seen them work out of at some meets.

- The AACA National Directors can attend board and committee meetings, and still be able to get out onto the show field and Flea Market when their schedule permits.

- If a judge's team hits a snag on the show field, the library is right there if they had to research something in a pinch.  There was a time when the team I was on hit a snag and Joe Vicini ended up calling the plant manager at his house on a Saturday to unsnag it.

- For the AACA staff, they can park at the office, go out onto the flea market field with a golf cart and free up space, and not have to go as far to get supplies and/or take stuff back to the office at the end of the day.

- If you get rain on either show day or during the flea market, it would enable AACA to get more people into the Library to do research which in turn promotes AACA. 

- What better way to sell the AACA brand when the headquarters and library are between the showfield and the flea market??

 

For the last couple of years I have gone off the radar and gotten out of the loop, but I like the idea of that new building. 

 

As for the Hershey event??  I don't see a fix to it because the problem lies with more than one entity.  If HERCO lifts the 5pm ban, you know there are going to be people who are going to pull into that lot with a camper, pay $20 and spend the week there.

Edited by ex98thdrill (see edit history)
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