billorn Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1941-Cadillac-Fleetwood-leather-/263168967305?hash=item3d4617c289:g:MEwAAOSwtytZoXdd&vxp=mtr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 It's a rare occasion I am speechless, but I am right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SaddleRider Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 I get suspicious when folks throw words around with no interest in what they mean. This car does appear to be a legit open 41 Cadillac, and if that assumption is correct, it most certainly isn't a Fleetwood. The Fleetwood series were the more expensive CLOSED cars with very expensive fabric upholstery...- for example, the stunning "60 Special" series. But I could be wrong - perhaps given the "Continental like" rear, this car was cobbled up from the front end of a 60 Special, with the rest simply built by order reflecting the imagination of the customizer. Each to his own...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 I don't think it's fair to say the car was cobbled together. It appears to be well build and nicely designed. I like it. Lose the wheels, seats, mirrors and the other hokey late model "upgrades" and you'd have a winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 (edited) According to the listing some of the customizing may have be done in the mid 1950's, which was common in SoCal during that time. Maybe the 1953 style wire wheels were put on then too. But there was more customizing done along the way. The seats look like they're out of a 1969-70 Cadillac. The door panel upholstery pattern is wrong. Under the hood the oil bath air cleaner has been crudely converted to a paper element, and the exhaust crossover on top of the engine has been flipped in order to put dual exhaust on the car which it didn't have originally. The serial number on these cars is stamped on top of the frame on the drivers side right by the oil fill. For some reason, someone made a homemade tag with the serial number and attached it to the drivers side front door jamb. Who ever did this all must have liked the look of the Continental rear end. I think they would have been better off buying a Continental and putting a Caddy engine in it which was also a common occurrence in the 1950's. Edited August 27, 2017 by K8096 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Not the worst custom that I have seen. I am a fan of the 41 Cads. Not changes that I would have made, but a person could clean it up a bit by doing things CarlLaFong said. Even cleaned up, I think the mods hurt the value in this case. To each their own. The Vault has a nice 41 Cad coupe on ebay right now. Interior is not correct, but a nice looking car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 If the work was done in Burbank, it may have been a Valley Custom car. Neil Emory and Clayton Jensen were top notch coachbuilders after WWII. Their cars rival and, in many cases, out do many of the cars put out by Barris and other, more well known, customizers. If it could be verified as a Valley Custom, I think it would be more valuable that we might think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 If done by someone well known, mods/build adds value. If done by a home builder, even with quality work. Mods have to be loved by a new owner to add value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Right or wrong that is one classy lookin' ride........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick8086 Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 (edited) Here is another car that came from Ca. In the 70's.. With the rear tire.. Edited August 27, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 (edited) With a $30,000.00 BIN ,obo it doesn't look all that bad. As mentioned above there doesn't seem to be any undoable changes. And it looks like it could be used as a regular driver up until a stock redo. The serial # irregularity would require some further investigation but as long as the new plate {and paperwork} caries the correct # I don't see a problem. A upscale pre war open car at a affordable by many price. Would a coupe rear clip work for returning this car to its original configuration or would the sheetmetal have to come from another convert ? Greg in Canada Edited August 27, 2017 by 1912Staver (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Just my two-cents worth, but some modifications do not improve upon the original. I like my '41 Caddy the way it was designed, and... I probably would not draw a mustache on the Mona Lisa ! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigersdad Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Damn, Marty! All your cars look GREAT!!!!!!!! Jay El Dorado Hills, CA 32 Buick 34 Packard, etc.......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 (edited) If Derham did that car experts would be clamoring for a look. And the workmanship may not have been done as well. Lots of wood, lap welds, and oozing lead in those period coachbuilt cars. If it was done in the '50's it could be higher quality than a "30's or '40's Fleetwood, Derham, B&S. whatever. Some of the stuff is pretty scary and makes one wonder if it was made in a shop or a cave, personal experience. Custom bodywork isn't as popular or common as it used to be, but just imagine what those early guys would think of the equipment available to home hobby shops today. I am looking at a Hobart 140 MIG for under $500 delivered. That Caddy has a nice appearance, is priced right, and someone who is not a discriminating aficionado will buy it and just enjoy the hell out of it. I would just hope they give Bill Hirsh a call and get a quart of the correct engine paint. If I was Bill I'd donate one for the good of the hobby. Bernie Edited August 27, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 1 hour ago, tigersdad said: Damn, Marty! All your cars look GREAT!!!!!!!! Jay El Dorado Hills, CA 32 Buick 34 Packard, etc.......... Thank you Jay, I appreciate your comments. Actually we were out and driving this 1941 Cadillac convertible on Friday. A good friend and noted Corvette collector/restorer from Lake Charles was in town, so we visited, drove through some lovely old areas of New Orleans, and stopped at a "Mom & Pop" favorite for a couple of dozen Oysters on the half-shell. I love driving this car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 With a 41 Caddy conv't being one of my bucket list cars, I saw this from the front and thought wow what a bargain, then hit the rest of the pictures on the listing when I saw it last night. I have seen worse attempts at customizing, but that being said, the 2 designs just don't flow together. The original lines flowed so smoothly. The cut off rear with the continental kit just doesn't add any improvement to the original design. The whole idea to customizing for the most part has been to make the car longer sleeker lower, flow better. This really accomplishes none of them. I do agree a clean up of some of the extras would be a start. There is another 41 Caddy conv't on right now that might have ended that could be bought for 30 or less and it's a much better example. The paint on the other one unfortunately looks a little off (an unusual shade) as well though. Fortunately I have that 40 Ford Coupe which just exhausted my funds for a while so I don't have to agonize over buying either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 It only looks as if they somehow grafted on a Lincoln Continental trunk and tire. Hard to say how good the bodywork is without being up close, but that's obviously what happened. How much would putting it back cost? Probably enough to make trying to do it into an upside-down proposition on that car. Somehow the top also looks wrong to my eye and it's sitting pretty high on its suspension, which is more than just the under-sized modern tires at work. To me, it looks like those ungainly custom sedans where a rich client had a custom limousine body from the '20s and insisted that they install it on, say, a 1939 Packard chassis. It never looks right, even though the work was undoubtedly very expensive to accomplish. And in the world of cars, ugly is very hard to sell no matter how well done the workmanship. This car is pretty homely to my eye, an uncomfortable mix of designs that weren't meant to go together. Sure, you could buy it and have fun with it, but you'd better get ready for everyone who sees it at most shows to make this face: 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert G. Smits Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Marty did you have to mention the Oysters and make me homesick. Matt, you avoid those "looks" by just going to hot rod shows. Bob Smits 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 35 minutes ago, Robert G. Smits said: Marty did you have to mention the Oysters and make me homesick. Matt, you avoid those "looks" by just going to hot rod shows. Bob Smits Bob, Hope to see you down he road - we'll be headed for the Glidden in Nebraska in a couple of weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I like the picture. That's the guy who walks around judging cars and pointing out obvious flaws. My Wife hates it when I imitate his whiny voice. "When are you going to fix this?" "Is this supposed to be like this?" "Did you know you car is not supposed to have that?" I can do that voice like dragging fingernails across a blackboard. She tells me she hates it. Well, I didn't make it up. I learned it from him. Oh, he never has a car, either. But when he does get one or finishes his it will be a lot better than yours. It is easy to leave some bait out for him. To the work on the Caddy, they claim it was done about 10 years after 1941. The only cars one should really compare the style with would be in that context. The intervening 60 years shouldn't count. So my thought would be not to compare it with any production or custom newer than, maybe 1954. That Continental bustle worked for Ford for 10 years. Put some Gurney-Nutting sill plates on the Caddy and drop your folding chair about 40 feet away. Bernie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 On 26/08/2017 at 8:04 PM, CarlLaFong said: If the work was done in Burbank, it may have been a Valley Custom car. Neil Emory and Clayton Jensen were top notch coachbuilders after WWII. Their cars rival and, in many cases, out do many of the cars put out by Barris and other, more well known, customizers. If it could be verified as a Valley Custom, I think it would be more valuable that we might think Or a documented Bohman & Schwartz conversion. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Bohman & Schwartz was in Pasadena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 On 8/28/2017 at 10:22 AM, Matt Harwood said: And in the world of cars, ugly is very hard to sell no matter how well done the workmanship. That statement opens up the question, what famous customs are on the ugly side? I think the Bob Hope Special could have stayed in the design phase a little longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I'm trying to come with an exact example but a good generality would be alot of the 50's Customs and hot rods that were really well done, then went beyond wild to what the H&*$ were you thinking or smoking when they designed and executed it's next phase in the 1960's and 70's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Taking a critical look at the modification, it actually follows the squared fender trailing edges, hood sides, and rectangular/linear trim better than the bulbous rear of the original. I think it look pretty good. Bernie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 17 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said: That statement opens up the question, what famous customs are on the ugly side? The 1954 Vignale-bodied Rolls Royce Silver Wraith. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21917/lot/239/ Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 6 hours ago, 8E45E said: The 1954 Vignale-bodied Rolls Royce Silver Wraith. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21917/lot/239/ Craig The unholy result of a three way, involving a Rolls, a Nash and a Harry Potter Anglia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SaddleRider Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Simple fact is the fellow made a major misrepresentation - the term Fleetwood was a "term of honor" used only for the "top-of-the-line Cadillacs of that year - most definitely not for the ordinary production run. If this fellow doesn't know or care what words mean with respect to what he is trying to sell, the obvious question is WHAT ELSE is false here? Buyer beware...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 42 minutes ago, SaddleRider said: Simple fact is the fellow made a major misrepresentation - the term Fleetwood was a "term of honor" used only for the "top-of-the-line Cadillacs of that year - most definitely not for the ordinary production run. If this fellow doesn't know or care what words mean with respect to what he is trying to sell, the obvious question is WHAT ELSE is false here? Buyer beware...! If memory serves, 1941 62 and 63 models (and possibly 67) had sill plates reading, "body by Fisher, interior by Fleetwood." That may be the source of the bogus Fleetwood claim. To me, that sill plate legend means only that it was a deluxe interior. Among the 1941 models, only the 60S and 75 series carried "Fleetwood" bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 My '51 62 series coupe had a tag on the side of the front seat that said "body by Fisher, interior by Fleetwood." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bleach said: My '51 62 series coupe had a tag on the side of the front seat that said "body by Fisher, interior by Fleetwood." Yes, they kept that up for quite a while. If 1941 wasn't the first year, it was close to the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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