Brass Era Car for the Taller Folk...Suggestions

[midman]

I figured I would throw this out there for the more experienced folks out there.

I am keeping my eye out for an earlier brass era car. Nothing special but I prefer cars that you don't see every day and I don't mind (actually I like) working on them and figuring them out so the Fords are out. I know this era had lots of orphan brands so there should be lots of choices.

Anyway my requirements are electric start (so I think I am looking at 1914 up) and I have to fit OK (I am a little over 6'2" 200 pounds). Not looking to really show the car but maybe a local tour and local back road cruising. The big touring cars of the era will be out of my price range unless I find a project.

The height thing will be my biggest hurdle I believe. It just seems most of the early cars are not made for the taller driver. My big Buick is snug and that is a 1931 90 series.

So any general suggestions. I am putting this out there because I don't want to take trips to surrounding states only to find a car I can't even get my legs into.

Examples of reasonably close cars right now are a 1915 Metz Model 20 (the friction drive is interesting) and a 1911 Hupmobile (no electric start though). Anyone have an idea if either of these would fit a taller driver.

I could go the speedster route if nothing else I guess.

 

Thanks for any input.

Chuck

 

[JV Puleo]

Unless you are in really frail condition or you are thinking of a Pierce Arrow 66, Silver Ghost or a firetruck, the problem of cranking a car is very much overblown. About 99% of the time a hand cranked car is difficult to start because something is wrong with it. Electric starters paper over these problems. Since you freely admit to liking working on them (as I do), a properly adjusted hand-crank car should start with 1/4 turn of the crank on the first or second pull. If everything is right, they'll start on the spark when warm. I admit it took me a long time to work this out. My first brass car had to be wound up with the priming cups open but when I eventually learned how to adjust things properly — and had hot and reliable spark at low rpm's — the problems went away entirely. There's more danger from absent minded cranking with the spark advanced and I confess to having been pretty badly bruised in the past doing that myself so what is really need is presence of mind.

 

Edit... I was thinking of an impulse mag, or a dual system with buzzer coils that really work. What worked best for me on my 1910 REO was to replace the mag a generator/distributor unit from a slightly later REO.

Edited August 19, 2016 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[A. Ballard 35R]

You are right JV but I would add the caveat that the car should have an impulse mag. Having broken my arm twice from improper cranking I know how important it is to have all controls properly adjusted. Wanting a brass car with an electric start narrows the selection tremendously and eliminates many desirable and affordable cars.

 

Chuck, you are in an area with many brass car owners and you might consider talking to them.

[1912Staver]

Both the Metz and the Hupp are very small cars. I have never sat in either ; I am roughly the same size as you, but I would assume neither will be comfortable.  I tried sitting in a fair number of tourings and found that while I could organise a square dance in the rear seat , the drivers space was always limited.

  I came to the conclusion that a period speedster on a larger chassis was the most realistic plan. 15 years later I am still at it , a big pile of parts, but at least its going to be a comfortable fit!

Greg in Canada

[Marty Roth]

Something on the order of my 1915 Hudson SIX-40 should afford you the leg room, ease of operation, and electric starting to make Brass-era touring a pleasure. These cars have a great reputation, are relatively affordable, and with the Continental-built engine of Hudson design, are comfortable, powerful, and easy to operate. I've owned and toured other Brass cars, ands understand your concerns. The '12 Oakland was super easy to hand-crank and start. The '14 Buick B-37 with electrics was a pleasure, and I'm still in the market for a 1915 cadillac Touring - if I can find a nice  one at an affordable price !

[John_S_in_Penna]

I sent a private message to you.

I know of a couple of cars for sale not very far from you--

not quite what you specified, but maybe worth a look.

[Luv2Wrench]

I can speak for the Metz Model 22 Roadster and it is pretty small.  I'm 5'10" and 190 lbs and while the car fits me well, I think it would be cumbersome if I were 4" taller.  There isn't a Model 20 but there was a Model 25 which was the same size but had increased horsepower.  There is a Model 22 ForeDoor (not a spelling error, there are two doors, but they are 'Fore' as in the front).   This is a much bigger car and would be reasonable for someone your size.

[dibarlaw]

Midman:

 You are my Hero! I do not know if we discussed my attempts in finding a car as you are speaking of. Marty offered me his 1914 B-37 Buick several years ago. That was after I attempted to buy a similar B-37 in New York. It needed a lot. But it was quite roomy for what I wanted.

I also tried to buy a 1915 C-36 roadster. Also very roomy. That fell through and I did document that on the forum.  Also the 1913-31 near Pittsburgh.

Also the same model in Michigan. Which may still be available. 

 I have still been trying to shake loose a 1910 Model 10 roadster from a family in Va. (You can tell I love these earlier Buicks.)

They are concerned that any one who wants it  will "Hot Rod it"! Smaller car but what I had always wanted. We need more of these cars in the Mason-Dixon chapter.

 Good Luck:

 Larry

[Larry Schramm]

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 10:08 AM, JV Puleo said:

Unless you are in really frail condition or you are thinking of a Pierce Arrow 66, Silver Ghost or a firetruck, the problem of cranking a car is very much overblown. About 99% of the time a hand cranked car is difficult to start because something is wrong with it. Electric starters paper over these problems. Since you freely admit to liking working on them (as I do), a properly adjusted hand-crank car should start with 1/4 turn of the crank on the first or second pull.

 

There's more danger from absent minded cranking with the spark advanced and I confess to having been pretty badly bruised in the past doing that myself so what is really need is presence of mind.

 

 

These are true words on cranking a car.  Generally my truck will start on the 3rd pull and many times on the first or second if it is warm.  It takes two pulls to get gas to the cylinders because it is an updraft carb.

 

As for getting hit by the crank,  I have a VERY STANDARD STARTING PROCESS.   I check the gear lever to make sure it is in neutral, move the spark lever to full retard, move the throttle lever to a little higher idle, pull the choke if it is cold,  pull the ignition on switch to on, and then start the truck with the crank.

 

After a couple of near misses I have standardized the start procedure 100% of the time in my mind and in every start.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

On our VMCCA tour I crank started several of the cars we rode in. Including Larry's truck. I think both times with one or 2 pulls. I was told years ago to crank left handed so that if there were a kick back the hand and arm are out of the way. If anything the fingers may get a bad rap. Most important was to avoid spinning over the crank (unless you are charging the cylinders). At the 50th anniversary celebration at Allentown I watched a frustrated fellow spinning the crank over and over on a reluctant 2 cylinder 1910 model 14 Buick.  

It was about 15 minutes before they got it started. All the other Brass, hand cranked cars, were started in short order with minimal effort.

[mercer09]

Buick and Dodge-affordable, parts are not too difficult to find. Stay away from Metz and Hupp for size................................................

[Larry Schramm]

On the question on what to buy for a tall guy, might look at a truck.  Compared to a Model T and that size of car, my truck has lots of space.  You just drive slower because of the lower gearing.

[Akstraw]

Perhaps you should consider building or buying a speedster.  Lots of flexibility to make or adjust the dimensions to your own physique, and still retain the originality of the chassis and drive train if you wish.

 

[midman]

Thanks for the advise and recommendations. I'll keep an eye out for the cars mentioned and forget about the Hup and Metz.

Any other advise or ideas are appreciated. 

Larry, we'll have to make sure we don't both chase the same Buick!

I'll update this post when I find something.

 

Chuck

[Dandy Dave]

The very Reason I bought the Chartreuse Lady was because when I sat in it, It was more comfortable than my living room couch. It is a 1915 C-36 Buick Roadster and is the car in the photo above behind Larry Schramm's truck. I'm around 6 foot and long legged. Had A Tin Lizzy once and it did not have enough leg room for me so I can see where you really don't want a Ford. I toured with it on the VMCCA Nickel tour in Orange with some of the gang above and many commented on how well it did for a 101 year old car. It survived the Skyline Drive run in the Blue Ridge mountains. I've had the car for around 10 years and it has always been a pleasure to drive. Dandy Dave! 

[zeke01]

What about the 1914 Overland at auction in the Stanley Groy estate this weekend near Hershey? As I remember it has a lot of room in the driver compartment. Zeke

[dibarlaw]

The larger Overland is indeed a roomy car. There was a1912 4 cylinder Reo on the Nickel tour and was also an comfortable fit for me.

[midman]

I plan on being there

[dibarlaw]

Midman:

 Good luck on that. It looks like a nice car. Looking around on e-bay there were a few more choices I found. Going with Larry Schramm's suggestion a great project I found was a 1913 Cadillac converted into a service truck. Of course it is a very ambitious project. Not for a project price. After my one response I had a personal massage about another 1913 Buick model 31 which would definitely be beyond my means. That now is 7 model 31s I have known about on the market in the last 6 years. So if we are patient something may come our way.

Another very good choice are the 1914-1916 Dodge Brother's Touring cars. They are very sturdy, tour able cars. More room than a Model T. They have an excellent club support and some parts are reproduced. Of course the somewhat drab styling may put you off. Check on e-bay. There is a beautiful 1916 available in Meadville PA. AACA winner. The ad is a bit strange as it has been stored in a dealers show room. They want $32,000 (buy it now) on a beautiful older restoration of the car but say the engine is stuck??? If I were asking almost double for an older restoration I would make sure it ran great.

Edited August 23, 2016 by dibarlaw (see edit history)

[tomcarnut]

Chuck,

 

Since you are in Carlisle, you need to check out the local HCCA club and talk to Bob Ladd, Jeff Lesher, Clay Green or Joe Swann( they are all AACA/HCCA members) that I believe are all nearby or in the Lancaster Pa area. They tour all the time. Clay runs a brass in Berks tour every spring. Bob Ladd and others run the Snappers AACA/HCCA Hershey Hangover tour. Lots of brass guys and their cars will be on all of these. I am 5' 11", 220 and am fine in 1911 Model T Touring I just inherited from my Dad. I have been driving a 1912 McLaughlin-Buick model 35 and had plenty of room too. The difference is with the T, I can get about any mechanical part I need in a day or so for a reasonable cost. For example, my ring and pinion went out on the Buick. The ring and pinion had to be made which cost $2200 vs maybe $200 for a T. The rear also had other issues that ballooned the cost well into the 5 figures vs a T maybe a $1000. Also, most of the guys with pre 1914 cars put starters on them. All you have to do is add a ring gear to the fly wheel and mount a small starter from a tractor or newer car. I think AACA does not deduct for this in judging. My McLaughlin does not have a starter yet, but a ring gear was added to the fly wheel so when I get too old to crank or I stall it in an intersection one to many times, I can add one fairly quickly. You will find if you really want to tour which is the best part of owning a brass car, a T with a two speed axle/driveshaft and Rocky/disc brakes will work most economically. If you are have machine tools and ability or plenty of money for others make parts, cars like four cylinder Buicks, EMFs and Overland with three speed Sliding geers vs Planetary are the next tier up. The six bangers like Marty is talking will put you in the six figure league. If you can live with 30-40 MPH, the four bangers with work. if you need lots of room and need to go 50, you gotta have six banger or a Model T(well maybe not the room) with two speed axle. It is all a matter of weather you can put up with a little pain with cramped quarters in Model T or pain in the wallet for bigger car. Metz and Hupps are best for shows or around the town driving but do not do well in hills. If you want to go slow, look at two cylinder cars that have some tours around the country. They T or bigger four bangers can be driven on most country road around the country. Just ask Joe Swann(He has a spot at Hershey) who drove over 10000 miles last year in 1912 EMF or view their blog. My overall suggestion is to talk to the above mentioned people and be a groupie on the Hershey Hangover tour Sunday after the show this year.  Lots of brass guys are near it. You will have plenty of cars that are driven to see and owners to talk to.  Lots of pre 16HCCA/AACA Reliablity tour eligible cars on the HCCA site too. Also stop by the HCCA tent at Hershey and visit the vendors near it. Clay Green is a row back and usually has some interesting brass cars for sale.

 

Tom Muth

Cincinnati, Ohio

[Joe in Canada]

A friend just got this rare 1914 Buick that has been in storage for many years delivered on Monday. This is the second one in my area in the last two years. Appears to have  plenty of room for a tall fellow and with power to spare to get you there. 

[Frantz]

They have a pre 1916 tour in Strausburg each year that I've had on my list of things I need to do. My understanding is many of the car owners allow visitors to go on rides following the trains. Aside from the general awesome nature of that idea, it would be sorta a autorama car shopping experience for you!

[dibarlaw]

Joe:

 The 1914 B-55 is indeed a plentiful proportioned car! Quite expensive. I believe that this car was consigned to the Hershey 2015 R/M auction. Tan top, red body, yellow wheels. I was interested in the 1915-C36 roadster. My bid was $15,000 a dealer bid $17,500. As the auction time approached I noted that the B-55 listing was gone.

[Joe in Canada]

That one was listed in the R&M auction but removed due to title issues that had to be cleared up first. Rick was able to track it down by accident in Cincinnati when he went to look at a 1915 that had already sold and came across this one. There is now a B55 and a M55 about 10 miles apart here.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

They are both very rare cars ! I have owned a bunch of parts for one for years, not nearly enough for a restoration but too good to scrap and not feel bad.  I have found more or less no additional parts despite being in contact with most of the owners of the other known cars. There seems to be no other basket cases out there apart from the 5 or 6 complete cars (1914 only, the 1915's and 16's are quite a bit different} except for a basket case that used to be local to me here in B.C. , Canada . It was sold a few years ago and seems to have fallen off the radar since. Even Greg Lange in Michigan, the person who keeps the registry for these cars doesn't know what has happened to it.

 Rare indeed ! And very nice cars. The Gorilla of Brass era Buick's

Greg in Canada

 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

The 55M one of only three built is 5 in. wider at the cowl than the 55B giving more room for the driver and aluminum bodied.  

[midman]

On August 22, 2016 at 8:22 PM, zeke01 said:

What about the 1914 Overland at auction in the Stanley Groy estate this weekend near Hershey? As I remember it has a lot of room in the driver compartment. Zeke

 

Well I went to the auction and I did fit nicely but alas I was the under bidder. I bid 18k and it sold for 19. I probably should have kept going a little more but I just didn't have enough time to evaluate it and there were too many question marks for me.

The hunt continues.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[mercer09]

looks like a nice car for the money..................!

 

btw used to own a 30 model 58 opera coupe-Buick-was a fantastic car

[cahartley]

I know you're asking about brass cars but I, at 5'11" and long legged, find Model T's to be a tad cramped for me but doable.

The one model  you CAN do something about the driver seat is the Tudor.

I have a '27 Tudor and moved the seat supports back one hole, 2", which made a world of difference and still leaves enough room for the passenger behind me.