More Automotice Treasure crushed/scrapped

[capngrog]

Below is a link to an article in an email newsletter I received from Old Cars Weekly:

http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/blogs/salvage-yard-ron/3500-crushed-large-montana-salvage-yard-closes?et_mid=675148&rid=241883640

The owner's (Neil Freeman's) attitude can be summed up in a couple of quotes;

“The yard just wasn’t making enough money. I have other businesses that are profitable, so what’s the point [of keeping the yard open].”

and:

Freman blamed the downturn of the economy for some of the yard’s recent lost business, but also said old car hobbyists share the blame. “No one wants to pay what this stuff is worth.” He estimated the value of his 3,500 vehicles to be approximately $2 million.

And finally:

“That scrap pile is $200,000 in my pocket.”

The only way I can explain the yard owner's attitude, is that he really dislikes "Old Car Hobbyists". The owner was trying to sell parts at 10X what he ultimately believed them to be worth, but was willing to take a loss of $1,800,000 from his estimated value of the old car parts just so he wouldn't have to deal with "old car hobbyists". I don't know what the owner's dealings with "Old Car Hobbyists" was like, but apparently some of these folks really irritated him. I guess it can be a challenge to deal with passionate people of any stripe, and we "Old Car Hobbyists" are, if nothing else, passionate about our hobby. The overwhelming majority of the people I've met in this hobby are great, but I guess there are some rotten apples in any group. I guess the owner of the yard is more of a "scrap metal" guy than a "car guy"; otherwise, he would not have allowed the bad attitudes of a few customers to cause him to scrap 3,500 pieces of automotive history. Of course on the other side of the coin, a negative attitude on the part of customers could have been due to the owner's attempts at price gouging.

There is an old car salvage yard located a 100 miles or so from me, about which I've heard much, but I've never visited. The owner is reportedly a nice guy and a car guy to boot, but has apparently crushed all of his Corvairs because he didn't like the attitudes of a few Corvair enthusiasts.

It's a free country, and a property owner can pretty much do whatever he/she wants with their property, but sometimes the result can be difficult to understand.

Cheers,

Grog

[Machinist_Bill]

I don't blame him. dealing with the public today is terrible. I have had to deal with Hemi car owners looking down on me for years. I have always said that if I ever win the Lottery I would buy 15 Hemi cars and have a demolition derby! I would also film it so I could watch it over and over again........

[rocketraider]

Depends on your definition of "worth".

There were two old car yards near Asheboro NC 15-20 years ago- one very well known, the other one more low-key. I always found the attitude at the well-known place to be, for lack of a more polite term, sh**ty. The low-key place was overall friendlier and easier to deal with, and the quality of their parts was way better than the well-known yard's. I often said that based on prices, the well-known yard had a lot of gold-plated rust. But, the county said the low-key yard's real estate was valuable for development, so the owner closed up shop and sold it. I heard one customer tell him "Jim, you done twenty-dollared me to death the last five years". Twenty dollars would score you a big pile of good parts though...

You sell quality stuff, price it reasonably, and stand behind it, people will be happy to do business. Sell 'em overpriced junk and refuse to stand behind it until someone gets the authorities involved (a heavily advertised yard in Oklahoma comes to mind), and you will fare common.

[jajolee]

I was there 2years ago and he let me walk tru the yard and take pictures from the cars

he was nice to me

and I bought a few emblem's for low prize

i hate it crushing old cars

jan

[Matt Harwood]

It's sad, yes, but what do we expect guys like this to do? Just keep maintaining a yard for the one guy every few days who shows up and buys a few bucks' worth of parts? There's insurance, property taxes, and other expenses to keeping it open, not to mention the headaches of dealing with "pickers" who will low ball you on everything and haggle over every single dollar. It's probably exhausting and would turn even the most kind-hearted person into a jerk. There are people who just LOVE to haggle, they don't even really come to buy, they just like making a deal. I get them now and again on cars, usually the cheapest ones, and they just want to haggle, they're not serious buyers. I can only imagine the nightmare of trying to sell junk to some of the guys who feel that that by showing up with money in their pocket he owes them some kind of special deal. Listen to the gripes about him charging too much--if it's too much, don't buy it! But I bet it's the hagglers complaining about his prices, not the guys who actually need a specific part.

To collectors, sure, that pile of junk might be worth $2 million. But it probably costs $3 million in time and effort to turn all that junk into $2 million. Easier to scrap it and be done, no? If there's something there you need, go get it! But don't expect some poor guy to keep investing time, money, and effort in the off chance that someone someday might need some random part off a junk car, especially when most of the guys who show up at his door are bottom-feeders who will give him $10 worth of aggravation for a $5 part.

[capngrog]

Yeah, business would be a lot more fun if we didn't have to deal with all of those pesky customers.

Outta business,

Grog

[R Walling]

I can see the plight of the yard owner. Guys don't want to pay the price of the value of scrap for a parts car.

There is liability for the owner to let people in the yard and remove parts themselves.

Buyers will not pay for the time it takes to remove parts by the owner.

People damage parts removing them and then don't want to pay for them.

People steal more than they buy.

A lot of time can be wasted on tire kickers.

[cahartley]

I don't blame him either.

He's probably been faced with 10,000 tightwad lowballers who think he should give that stuff away.

There are only two ways to get what you need: Spend days, weeks and YEARS burning up gas, wasting your time, attending swaps and auctions OR put up or shut up ....... :mad:

[1937hd45]

You don't have to own a junk yard to find lowballers on collector car parts. You can crush or distroy parts at any flea market right in front of them and still get scrap price for the item when you get home. Step up, pay up or shut up. Bob

[JV Puleo]

Yes, and there are plenty of vendors who seem to think that all old car enthusiasts are prepared to spend "anything" for what they have. Generally, the dedicated, focused collector knows a lot more about his specialty than the general dealer does. When I see a $100 headlight offered for $800 I just walk away. It isn't even worth talking to that person and I don't enjoy haggling. Actually, I take the the more outrageous prices as an insult to my, and others intelligence. I've no idea if this it the situation here, but there is room for reservation on both sides of the question. Nevertheless, I agree with the previous posters regarding the "hagglers". I'd probably crush the cars rather than go through that ordeal every day.

I used to deal with a place called "Bills Auto Parts", run by Bill Gregory who, in time, became a friend. (The New Englanders here will probably remember the place.) Bill had a fabulous junkyard full of cars going back to the 20s (and a few bits of brass cars too)... I found him very fair his pricing but he brooked no haggling. You paid his price or didn't get the part. I have seen him throw people out who tried to haggle... and refuse to take their money when they discovered their tactic had backfired.

Edited May 25, 2014 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[nick8086]

It happen more that you think.. I took 14 loads to the scrap yard..

I just had a hard time finding any one to buy the old stuff.. I called members in the Kaiser club and offered it for free?

No one wanted it..

It must be they have all they need or no old cars are being restored...

[1939_Buick]

This looks to be the web site (from before the crushing)

http://www.fremansauto.com/home/

http://www.fremansauto.com/customhtml/

http://www.fremansauto.com/customhtml1/

From another forum http://www.59plymouth.net/59forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2400

[capngrog]

Wow, I didn't think that this would turn into an "Old Car Hobbyist" bashfest when I started this thread:eek:. "Haggling" is just part of business ... any business. From the local kid with a lemonade stand to Walmart, it's part of business (if you don't think that Walmart haggles with their suppliers, then you need a reality check). If you have a business and don't care for haggling, post a sign or let the customer know up front ... don't whine about it. If, after posting signage etc., a customer still tries to haggle, then kick him out:D. I don't know of anyone who doesn't haggle at yard sales, flea markets, swap meets etc., and I find the haggling part to be fun. Of course, if someone is mean-spirited in their haggling, that takes it to a disagreeable level. If a businessman doesn't like to deal with the public, don't whine about what "a-wholes" the customers are, get a job where you don't have to deal with the public. If you get tired of "dealing" with customers, just sell your inventory instead of destroying it in a juvenile fit. "I've got this prize-winning (fill in the blank) for sale here, and if I don't get my price, I'm gonna destroy it (stamp foot)".

Just a-hagglin',

Grog

[MikeC5]

What a shame. I can understand being tired of the business, haggling, etc. but if he was really a car guy he would have made the effort to find some other way to spare these cars and make at least a little more than scrap value. Did he try to offer the entire stock for say $400K It really strikes as a "I don't want to play anymore and it's my ball" situation.

[Matt Harwood]

Wow, I didn't think that this would turn into an "Old Car Hobbyist" bashfest when I started this thread:eek:. "Haggling" is just part of business ... any business. From the local kid with a lemonade stand to Walmart, it's part of business (if you don't think that Walmart haggles with their suppliers, then you need a reality check). If you have a business and don't care for haggling, post a sign or let the customer know up front ... don't whine about it. If, after posting signage etc., a customer still tries to haggle, then kick him out:D. I don't know of anyone who doesn't haggle at yard sales, flea markets, swap meets etc., and I find the haggling part to be fun. Of course, if someone is mean-spirited in their haggling, that takes it to a disagreeable level. If a businessman doesn't like to deal with the public, don't whine about what "a-wholes" the customers are, get a job where you don't have to deal with the public. If you get tired of "dealing" with customers, just sell your inventory instead of destroying it in a juvenile fit. "I've got this prize-winning (fill in the blank) for sale here, and if I don't get my price, I'm gonna destroy it (stamp foot)".

Just a-hagglin',

Grog

It sounds like the guy who owns this yard HAS been trying to sell his stuff for years and years with fewer and fewer takers. He HAS been haggling with the public. He's losing money every day he's in business. I think the point is that he DID try to sell this stuff to hobbyists, and they either didn't buy it or offered him such low prices that it wasn't worth his while to try to stay in business anymore. If it's such a gold mine of treasures and an easy way to make money, go offer him scrap value for it and set yourself up in a new business. I guarantee he'll sell it to you for pennies on the dollar, just as he would the scrap man.

Nobody here hates hobbyists and more than a few folks will resent the implication, but if you go to a yard sale and pick up an item with a $2 price tag on it and try to get it for $1, you're only trying to make it into sport for yourself at someone else's expense. You're not trying to "save money" or trying to convince someone that their price is unrealistic, you're just trying to see how far you can push someone to get what you want, wasting their time and embarrassing yourself. A yard sale, fine, no harm, no foul. But wasting a business person's time has a cost for them, whether you appreciate it or not, and yes, after a while they're going to decide that your money just isn't green enough to compensate them for the headaches you're causing. And while it is unquestionably part of every financial transaction out there, a lot of people DON'T enjoy it, particularly when people do it just to amuse themselves. I've told more than one guy I won't sell him a car just because the hassles would outweigh the potential profits. I'm sure it's that way on a $5 part as well as a $50,000 car.

I would love to not haggle in my business. I could lower all my prices on all my cars by a significant amount immediately, but since I expect people to haggle, I have to give them someplace to go so they can feel like they got a "win." When a guy calls and says, "What will you take, cash money, for that car?" I know he's merely doing it for sport. If he can work the price down to a below-market level, maybe he'll consider buying the car. More than once I've had a guy offer me somewhat below asking price, but right around my bottom-line, I accepted, and he has either vanished or continued haggling. "Oh, it seems my offer wasn't cheap enough, I rescind it and now am offering 20% less. Will you take it now?" I figure he's just seeing if I'm desperate enough to fall for his tactics.

We're all hobbyists here, but some of us pay asking price for things because we respect the other guy's time and efforts and knowledge. If the price tag is close to what I'm willing to pay, I pay it, no questions asked. If it's too much, I don't bother. I certainly don't walk into the Rolls-Royce dealership and offer them $20,000 for a new Rolls-Royce then look at them like they're the jerks for not wanting to deal with me.

[capngrog]

Matt;

Do you always pay "asking price" when you purchase a "Vintage Motor Car" for stock?

Just wonderin',

Grog

[Lahti35]

Looks like he decided ebay wasn't for him... for all its faults Epay gets the items out into public view wi tha chance to sell them. I would think that would be preferable to getting a ton of e-mails asking if you have this part or that and running around the yard pulling items that people change minds on.

[Bleach]

It proves the guy was a big failure in the used auto parts business. He had no business trying to hoard all those cars and then expect stuff to fly out of the yard. There are many successful businesses out there.

[Pete Phillips]

Freman's used to be a good place to buy needed parts. They helped me in the 1980s and 1990s with several restorations. In the past year, however, I could never get a response when I needed parts for my '63 Wildcat convertible. I tried emails; no response. I tried phone calls multiple times, asking if they had certain parts. I would leave messages; no return phone call. I don't think I am a difficult person to deal with. I've always been willing to pay whatever his quoted price was, if he had what I needed, knowing that it is a difficult business to be in, with a lot of costs involved. After trying for the past year to get any response to what I needed, I finally gave up on Freman's Automotive, figuring they either didn't want my business or didn't care. What a crying shame that these cars were crushed. Had I known in advance, I would have gladly taken a week off, driven up there, and brought a trailer load of them back.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

(15 or 20 antique cars--I won't bore you with the list of them)

Leonard, Texas

[cahartley]

My friend there >>> http://www.trclassicsllc.com/default.html buys all the old and "junk" cars he can.

He takes them home to his shop and strips them down to nothing.

Everything with value is cataloged and sold through ebay, his ebay store or through inquiries.

Junk IS junk though and that's what happens to the rest.

He runs a neat operation....... .......and he's not a ripoff artist either....... :cool:

[jajolee]

when I was at freman two years ago

he already cut up alot of cars

all what left of a car where the doors the hood and trunklid and the dashboard the rest was gone

he had a lot of piles like that

there where a lot of bumpers near the gate too

a shame it all is gone now

jan

[MarrsCars]

My local Mercedes indie shop scrapped about three dozen 60's and 70's cars they kept for parts a few years ago without notifying anyone, and when they mentioned they were going to scrap all their remaining vintage engine and other mechanical parts a couple of weeks ago I asked if they would let me know first so I could come by and pick some stuff out and pay them for it. Well, I stopped in the very next day unexpectedly and the scrap man was already there hauling all that stuff away. Some people do just get burnt out and surrender.

[Larry Schramm]

I tried to see a couple of Corvair station wagons a while back complete for the price of scrap and could not get any buyers. .... so they went to the scrapper and actually got more for scrap than I had been asking.

[Guest Gary Hearn]

I would hesitate to make generalizations about this situation (or any similar one) without knowing all the facts. Junkyards are in business to make money, not to serve the whims of old car enthusiasts. Once a car reaches a certain age or is depleted of the majority of parts it no longer makes money and is taking up space for another vehicle that could return money to the yard owner. Just like car collectors, yard owners are a dying breed. There comes a point in time where it is simply easier to cart it all away and get a lump sum payment and eliminate the hassles.

i was faced with a similar situation earlier this year. I had an enclosed trailer full of Studebaker parts that I hauled to the Keystone Swap Meet in York, PA. I had vended there for years, but decided my priorities had changed. Rather than spending 3 days standing in the cold haggling and cajoling people into buying, I sold everything to one person. I had long ago recouped my investment and could have made more selling parts individually, but now have 1 less headache and and challenge for my heirs. To me the money now was worth far more than spending the rest of my life trying to make more than I got.

i am in the process of selling most of my vehicles and tractors and will eventually just have a couple of nice, minimal maintenance vehicles. I find collecting chain saws to be far more enjoyable (more opportunities to haggle) as they cost less and are easier to hide.

As stated earlier, if you don't want to see it crushed, buy it.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Gary Hearn (see edit history)

[capngrog]

[quote name=Gary Hearn;

i was faced with a similar situation earlier this year. I had an enclosed trailer full of Studebaker parts that I hauled to the Keystone Swap Meet in York' date=' PA. I had vended there for years, but decided my priorities had changed. Rather than spending 3 days standing in the cold for 3 days haggling and cajoling people into buying, I sold everything to one person. I had long ago recouped my investment and could have made more selling parts individually, but now have 1 less headache and and challenge for my heirs. To me the money now was worth far more than spending the rest of my life trying to make more than I got.

.

Gary,

I don't think that anyone could fault you for disposing of your collection of parts in this manner. You didn't destroy the parts, so they'll remain in circulation and will be available to hobbyists.:cool: I can't speak for the other participants in this thread, but I am dismayed when a salvage yard owner decides to scrap valuable cars and parts on a whim or even out of spite. There are other ways to dispose of old cars and old car parts: auctions, bulk sales etc., and all should be pursued before calling the crusher. If the inventory is offered at a reasonable price and there are no takers, oh, well, that's life. If a yard owner is trying to sell the contents of his yard having valued it at, for example $2,000,000.00, and then sells it to a crusher for 1/10th of this price without having offered it (for a similar price) for someone to preserve the resource, well, that sounds like spite to me.

Salvage yards must make a profit to stay in business, and if old cars (and their parts) become unprofitable, offer a clearance sale at, or near the scrap price before resorting to scrapping.

Just sayin',

Grog

[Guest Gary Hearn]

On the other side of the coin, I have seen auctions where the yard owner tried to disperse the vehicles only to get less than scrap value. Remember, it would take years to realize the full value of all the parts, money today coupled with not having the headaches of running the business often leads to immediate dispersal. The yard owners often spent years or decades trying to sell parts only to find that folks took for granted they would be there forever. I have scrapped a lot of stuff I could not give away and still have parts I have pulled off of vehicles and tractors that I will likely never sell or even give away. I sold 2 vehicles last weekend and will continue to do so, it means money in my pocket and less hassle for my heirs.

[MikeC5]

With the internet and things like this forum I would at least think he could have at least given fair warning that he was going to scrap it all unless someone stepped up and gave him scrap value for everything and haul it away by some fixed date. If still no takers then he could say "I tried" and walk away with a clear conscience. I don't think anyone forced him to get into the business in the first place. Maybe he did try to sell it all at a deep discount and finally said to hell with it.... On a much smaller scale, I've been sitting on some parts for over a dozen years that I'm about ready to scrap but I have given warning in my local area CL. Fleabay is an alternative for some folks but shipping large and bulky/heavy parts just isn't one of my favorite things to do... So I can see how one might arrive at his conclusion..

[Dave Mellor NJ]

There actually was an attempt to save many of the parts. Admittedly there wasn't much warning.http://forums.aaca.org/f169/help-save-vintage-tin-366040.html

[capngrog]

I've gotten the impression that a couple of participants in this thread are willfully missing the main point of the thread: there are alternatives to scrapping a valuable collection of rare cars and parts. These alternatives would include:

• Sell the business outright. Who knows what the new owner would do, but that just brings us back around to the original point of this thread;
  
• Have an auction, and sell at enough above scrap price to make it worth the effort;
  
• Post notices on popular media of intent to scrap the inventory and hold a sale, with prices set just high enough to make the sale worthwhile, then scrap what's left over from the sale.
  

I'm sure there are other alternatives that I've not thought of; however, nowhere has it been suggested that a yard owner sell inventory to hobbyists for less than scrap value. Would there be an outcry if the Smithsonian in D.C. decided to sell the valuable real estate to condo developers and the buildings and collections were scrapped? I think there would be a huge outcry and a ****-storm of incredible proportions. While not exactly an "apples-to-apples" comparison, I think the difference is in the degree ... the difference in the value between "collections" and "inventories", but the emotion is the same. Some significant part of our history would have been lost.

Let's not forget the VanDerBrink Auction of the vehicles and contents of Lambrecht Chevrolet of Pierce Nebraska. This auction occurred this past September, and, I believe, every thing was sold. Admittedly, many vehicles had been stored inside for years and were true "survivor treasures", but most of the vehicles had been stored outside and were more like "salvage yard grade". This auction was a real success story and a "win-win" for everyone involved.

Cheers,

Grog

[Guest Gary Hearn]

I've gotten the impression that a couple of participants in this thread are willfully missing the main point of the thread: there are alternatives to scrapping a valuable collection of rare cars and parts. These alternatives would include:

• Sell the business outright. Who knows what the new owner would do, but that just brings us back around to the original point of this thread;

• Have an auction, and sell at enough above scrap price to make it worth the effort;

• Post notices on popular media of intent to scrap the inventory and hold a sale, with prices set just high enough to make the sale worthwhile, then scrap what's left over from the sale.

A junk yard owner has no obligation to the public to take any action prior to disposing of his/her inventory. Often the decision to sell out is made after years of trying to sell parts and probably realizing very little for his/her efforts. You are far removed from reality to think that you can have an auction and "sell at enough above scrap price to make it worth the effort". An auction is an absolute sale and the highest bidder owns the item regardless of the price unless a reserve is set in advance.

i suspect that many yard owners go to substantial lengths to sell their inventory prior to closing the doors. It is unrealistic to expect all junk cars will be saved, just like in nature all things are ultimately recycled. If you are offended by cars being crushed then spend your money and save them.

[capngrog]

A junk yard owner has no obligation to the public to take any action prior to disposing of his/her inventory. Often the decision to sell out is made after years of trying to sell parts and probably realizing very little for his/her efforts. You are far removed from reality to think that you can have an auction and "sell at enough above scrap price to make it worth the effort". An auction is an absolute sale and the highest bidder owns the item regardless of the price unless a reserve is set in advance.

i suspect that many yard owners go to substantial lengths to sell their inventory prior to closing the doors. It is unrealistic to expect all junk cars will be saved, just like in nature all things are ultimately recycled. If you are offended by cars being crushed then spend your money and save them.

Gary,

Well, now you've descended to a personal attack ("You are far removed from reality ..."). Disappointing. You, yourself, explained how an auction ensures that at least scrap value is realized: "... a reserve is set in advance." For those unfamiliar with the term "reserve", it is a minimum bid set by the seller, below which, the auction is "No Sale".

I agree with you that there comes a time when there is no residual value, other than scrap, of an old picked-over hulk, and the only resolution is the scrap man.

I am offended by valuable pieces of history (be they old cars or otherwise) being destroyed when it's not necessary, and yes, I have done my part and spent my limited resources to save old cars (and other rarities) from the scrap man.

You have completely ignored the success story of the Lambrecht Chevrolet auction.

Grog

[Guest Gary Hearn]

Gary,

Well, now you've descended to a personal attack ("You are far removed from reality ..."). Disappointing. You, yourself, explained how an auction ensures that at least scrap value is realized: "... a reserve is set in advance." For those unfamiliar with the term "reserve", it is a minimum bid set by the seller, below which, the auction is "No Sale".

I agree with you that there comes a time when there is no residual value, other than scrap, of an old picked-over hulk, and the only resolution is the scrap man.

I am offended by valuable pieces of history (be they old cars or otherwise) being destroyed when it's not necessary, and yes, I have done my part and spent my limited resources to save old cars (and other rarities) from the scrap man.

You have completely ignored the success story of the Lambrecht Chevrolet auction.

Grog

I never said that "scrap value is realized", in fact I noted I have seen auctions where cars sold for less than scrap value. And yes, you ARE far removed from reality if you think that any auctioneer would undertake a sale where junk cars had a reserve set on them. In a dispersal sale the object is to sell each item for the highest price in the shortest period of time and no self respecting auctioneer is going to spend his time only to not realize any payment for his efforts. Reserves are to protect the seller on big ticket items and would run contrary to the objective of cleaning out a junk yard.

Please understand that I am not advocating the crushing or permanent loss of parts vehicles, but rather providing a realistic view of what occurs. I have been buying (and storing) items that I have purchased at auction since 1971. I have a 4000 square foot building that is packed full of "treasures" to show for my efforts. I now desire to be rid of it and sell the land, having the money is now more important than having the stuff. In the end what I can't get rid of will be scrapped or burned, I am not going to put any more time or effort into getting it into someone else's hands or trying to squeeze the last nickel out of it.

Personally, I admire anyone who can suffer through the snails pace at which a VanDerBrink auction is conducted because I won't.

[Pontiac59]

After being in this business for 10 years or so dealing with the people who build cars, of all stripes, I'm to the point where I would rather crush a whole car than deal with most of them, to be honest. I get more people who want to buy this part or that part off a whole car I'm selling, they expect me to cut off my nose to spite my face and make what's left that much less sellable because they can't get off their behind and find someone who actually will sell parts to them. I don't need the money that bad - but when I do, I'll take it to the scrapper since he won't complain about it. That's probably why my '32 Rockne body back when it was mostly a whole car, landed in a you-pick yard where I bought what pieces I could get. I don't cut up a car unless it's utterly unrestorable to anyone's imagination - but there's so many clueless armchair phony car guys in the hobby, idiots who see a car with the paint baked off to surface rust and see junk, but are stupid enough that I can paint the same car with a brush out of a can of rustoleum and suddenly now they see a restorable car, it tries my patience.

I mean, at one point when I had a '50 Ford woodie for sale I had this jackass send me messages about once a month telling me what junk it was and how I should part it out - this clown went so far as to offer me $100 for the third row seat out of it - which alone was bringing $500 in the same shape on eBay at the time. I eventually sold the car for about three times that. And there have been plenty more like this guy. Hell, one vintage camper I've listed for a buddy - that is complete externally and could easily be saved, and may be the only one in existance in the entire world - I found this clown stole the pictures and had an editorial on his website going on the same tune about what junk it is and that it should be scrapped, because my buddy wants five grand for it. It's not even rotty, for crying out loud, the body is aluminum.

I've had a few good years selling super desirable cars to folks, but there's too many jerks and tightwads out there who still think it's 1973 and you can find this stuff anywhere so they want to pay half scrap for it, it's sucked most of the fun right out of it. Especially since now what's left are the tougher to move cars, and my sources for more have pretty well dried up. '42 Hudson? No one cares, I need to paint it. '58 Rambler? No one cares, and it has decent paint. And so on.

As it stands now I have two full pallets of engine timing gears, chains, timing gear sets, plus some old reman clutches and the whole thing looks more and more like a nice trip to the scrapyard, because even if I could find a reference for the numbers, chances are I'd be lucky to get a buck a shot for each gear. At that price it's not worth the time to look them up and ID them.

So I totally understand when one of these guys scraps the stuff out. Instead of having to spend his valuable time personally, or paying someone, to help out guys who want to pay 10 cents on the dollar and complain about every little thing, he can sell it for scrap to a guy who won't complain, who will take it all and pay up front and that's that.

[capngrog]

Gary,

Thanks for making my point ... again.

Grog