1929 Fisher Body wood patterns

[Guest rjones]

Where would I find the dimensions, drawings or patterns for a 1929 Oakland Cabriolet Convertible? Specifically for the doors. Mine have some of the original wood but have been butchered in places badly. With what I have, I'm not sure that I can ever get the windows in it or get the doors to close properly. I am also an accomplished woodworker so any sketches or drawings would be great! Thanks to all!!!!

[Erndog]

Good luck! Fisher bodies are not Ford "one-size-fits-all" construction. Each car is pretty much unique. I have been trying to recreate my '30 Buick wood for years. Not a simple task. I usually end up making mirror images of pieces from one side to create the other side. I have noticed that often two mirror-image factory pieces are quite different. As far as I know and have found, the only drawings/dimensions you will find are those we re-wooders may have made ourselves.

[dictator27]

What Emdog said. There are very few drawings available for any car, let alone GM. I have to replace the wood in the roof and floor of my Studebaker Dictator and I know no such drawing exist for it. There is no wood left even for patterns between the A and B pillars in my car, so I am "playing it by ear" as I go. If you are comfortable doing woodwork, you are well ahead of me. I have no woodworking experience and only the most basic woodworking tools, but I'm going to tackle the job. No doubt I will make mistakes, and hopefully I'll learn from them, but I'm not going to throw my wallet at it and farm the job out.

Terry

[keiser31]

You might want to get one of these books. I know there are no dimensions given, but the photos and drawings should definitely help you....it also has the skeletal structure shown.

[Rusty_OToole]

There are stories and videos out there about how they made the bodies in the first place. I understand they had a giant blackboard where they drew the body out full size. The carpenters made the framework which was fitted together, all the pieces marked with a number in India ink, then taken apart and varnished. These became the patterns that were used to mass produce the bodies.

I am not sure there ever were blueprints or plans showing the individual parts.

But, every car they made was made along similar lines. So pictures of the body framing for any Fisher body would give you the idea of how they were put together.

[Restorer32]

And bear in mind that the wood was not put into the car but rather the wood was assembled and the sheet metal was then attached over the wood, much to the consternation of anyone attempting to replace wood in an early car without totally disassembling the body. I can tell you for a fact that an L29 Cord Cabriolet has 103 individual pieces of wood in the body, not including doors or rumble lid. Use ash if you can.

[Guest rjones]

Thanks guys! I only have the Fisher Body Manual for Oakland and Pontiac copyrighted 1928. Is there another one that shows any pictures of the inside of the doors? Mine has one drawing of a couple of pieces at the bottom of the window when it is closed and a picture of the inside of the door with part of the door panel removed at the door catch. If I can see it to understand what needs to be there I think I can make it. In my wood they have cut deep channels for operating rods and big holes for latches and door handles. More hacked than cut, I should say. Some of my wood pieces are even held in with spray foam insulation! I have to take it also that a Cabriolet door would be almost the same as a Coupe door? Hopefully I can get at least one good picture from somewhere! Thanks again, I really do appreciate the help.

[keiser31]

Mine is the 1929-1931. Yes, it does have some of those areas. Send me your email address and I will send you some photos of the photos. John

keiser31@charter.net

[keiser31]

Here are some...

[BearsFan315]

Have you contacted any of the Wood Suppliers that produce the wood body kits for Chevrolets ??

Autowood Restoration

KC Wood Manufacturing

Classic Wood Mfg

Heard nothing but good things from the Chevrolet Guys about all of these guys...

I will be contacting them when I get to the body as I need a few replacement wood structure parts, and they can help !!

[Bhigdog]

And bear in mind that the wood was not put into the car but rather the wood was assembled and the sheet metal was then attached over the wood, much to the consternation of anyone attempting to replace wood in an early car without totally disassembling the body. I can tell you for a fact that an L29 Cord Cabriolet has 103 individual pieces of wood in the body, not including doors or rumble lid. Use ash if you can.

Ash is going the way of Chestnut and American Elm. The Emerald ash borer is killing millions of ash trees and there is no cure. I have a couple of hundred board feet of dry clear ash set aside if anyone needs it............Bob

[Restorer32]

Ash is still readily available commercially and is no more expensive than oak. We use a good bit of it. Eventually it will become scare if the borers aren't controlled.

[Bhigdog]

Yes, no shortage yet but the long term future for ash looks grim. So far there is no effective defense against the beetle and once the tree is invaded it is doomed...............Bob

[Guest 1929 pontiac man]

i have heard this discussion topic so many times the worst are pontiac and oakland there are none when restoring my 29 pontiac coupe you will have to locate the pontiac oakland closed car for 1926 to 1931 it will show you a picture of the complete body wood structure the way i dealt with it i did a lot of measurement on the car to get exact dimensions from hole to hole on frame for the sill board remember right and left are not mirror images each car is not exactly the same i found on my 29 coupe the left aside sill board is slightly larger than the left it is also slightly wider after talking to poci i was told this was very common they also used parts that they had versus what they needed i used the non rusted panels to get the right shape till it fit once i got the entire structure assembled and bolted then i disassembled it and took all the pieces numbeing them  and labeling them with the correct name i then sent them out to a body wood company to reproduce then in white ash and had the wood sealed and epoxy coated them for no wood rot when i got them back i was very pleased 3 1/2 years i spent then i sent the car to be painted  and now drive this beauty if another problem ever happens i have the true template to replace it and loaned a couple of my friends to have a new one made for them it is a time consuming job ford's chevrolet are easy you can order all the wood you need for them but even that you still have to tweak the body wood to fit

[Cabnut]

Replacement wood can be fabricated for most any car. Wood can be fabricated using original wood remains as patterns, or new wood designed to be at least period correct using original techniques. Not an inexpensive endeavor as the body needs to be on hand and everything is custom hand crafted. Jobs in progress can be viewed on facebook page "Automotive Wood Bodies", or contact me at automotivewoodbodies@gmail.com. The website is www.automotivewoodbodies.com.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Cabnut (see edit history)

[chistech]

The cabriolet doors are somewhat different from the closed cars because of the window sash guides and they usually have metal strap supports the run angular from the upper regulator board down to the lower door framing cross board. There are also usually anti rattle rollers located at the top corners. I will be rebuilding my 32 Olds DCRdoors soon and you yo can se if your doors are similar when I post pics. I have a thread in the restoration section. I have found that the wood is pretty much the same from side to side and just the bolt holes vary slightly in location. If you are an experienced woodworker you should have little problem duplicating the pieces. Bill Cartwright often has wood for Chevy cabriolets. While it might not be correct. It will be close. Most of the Fisher cabriolets were the same from the belt line down. An example is 32 Olds and Pontiac use the same wood and the 32 Chevy door will fit the Olds, again from the belt line down.

Edited May 29, 2017 by chistech (see edit history)

[Cabnut]

I have a 1929 Chevrolet Cabriolet and also have one 1929 Pontiac Cabriolet door and there are significant differences in the wood. I expect Oakland and other Gm cars to have differences due mostly to body sheet metal styling. Fisher used same engineering practices but had to deal with style variations across the different divisions. Probably standardized more in later years to save costs due to the depression taking hold.

[chistech]

Shouldn't be much difference from the belt line down as I stated if both are Fisher. Roadsters were not Fisher built and vary more than the cabriolet models. Length and widths can vary but the design and joinery used will be so similar that one can build wood off the other patterns, that is why I suggested the commercially available Chevy wood. 

[Cabnut]

The belt line wood is exactly what is different from the Chev to the Pontiac at least for 1929. Both doors have metal front pillars that also differ and due to the different belt wood the rear latch pillar would be different. Also I have noticed on similar year GM products (Buick for one) differing sweeps from the belt line down resulting in different angles where the plane of the door meets the floor. Buick bodies are a little wider. If I had the door steel parts and a few measurements from the body I could recreate period correct wood for them. I can recreate all the wood but it is all one off custom work though patterns could be created for future use.

[ralley123]

I have 1929 buick would any on hve  pattern to post where hinges get bolt to you can call 717-965-6645 thanks troy for any help

[Tim Wolfe]

There is a shop just outside of Houston, Ohio that rebuilds the wood in old cars. He does Chrysler woodies and others,  full time shop. Send me a pm and I'll look up his contact information for you. Cars he has done have won at concours car shows.

 

[1929 pontiac coupe man]

it is sad but there are no such drawings with dimensions for any gm car built  for 1926 through 1932 that is why all the drawings are generic or the same except for the different models and styles and makes they look the same  if you have really good drafting software you can make your own with dimensions i did the same thing i did not waste any wood i have a full size plot printer and can print out 8 foot drawings i started by using gm wood structure books for the base input i took photo of the page and then i took actual measurements on my car for the sill boards i measured from the cowl bracket hole that goes through the frame to the rear hole next to the frame next to the rear fender well then i measured from the inside frame to the cowl skin and angle the door and the rear fender well to get accurate dimensions for thickness of wood i had to measure from the top of frame to about 1/32 " above running board splash apron to the top of cowl bracket bottom that has 2 holes  i input all the dimensions and applied to scale at 100% i got accurate wood patterns i then contact a company about reproducing wood parts they cut the wood using a laser no wood mistakes looks perfect and smooth  for car i got a perfect piece back and fit really nice i then sent the second drawing for the drivers side i got back the second one just as nice and both out of white ash i then proceeded to  the door posts and rear section wood  and finally the roof took approx 1.5 years to finish  and is perfect in quality my sport roadster looks like it came from a new dealership 

Edited September 5, 2018 by 1929 pontiac coupe man
made a mistake of putting the wrong wood (see edit history)

[mcdarrunt]

We have THREE 34 Chevy's in the shop right now and a different approach on each. A 2dr that is factory stock, a 2dr Town Sedan which has the integral trunk, and my 5w Coupe. The Town Sedan is a hybrid with floor, door pillars, and inner door skin being converted to steel, and the coupe now having zero wood. The total steel conversion is a lot of work and probably not practical to pay to have done but once done I wouldn't trade it for a half dozen termite farms. All three look like 34 Chevy's and not chopped and dropped radicals..

 

 

[stakeside]

I salvaged some very poor patterns for my Dodge Bros truck. It took a little trial and error to get wood fabricated. I use a lot of white pine, glue and wood filler to get a proper reproduction as a pattern. Choose a soft wood that is easy to work with for patterns.

[TG57Roadmaster]

I'll just throw these Fisher Body Service Bulletins in here since they give the names of  the wood body parts.

They're undated, but finding additional issues may help.

 

TG

[Guest]

Amen to knowing and using the correct names for things (parts and pieces).  Thank you TG57Roadmaster

[alsfarms]

MCCdarunt, I am curious as to a weight comparison between the original wood filled body as compared to the replaced steel structure.

Al

[zipdang]

This thread just reminded me of a neat little booklet I found in my grandfather's garage promoting the process and quality of the Fisher bodies. It has sections on the wood, metal, glass, upholstery and testing with some great diagrams and pictures of the processes and the plants. I've scanned a few pages to give you the flavor. It is dated 1927 which is a little before this thread's target date.

 

[Vice force]

Does Anyone know where I could find a roof kit or roof diagram for  a 1929 Durant ?

[Cabnut]

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 10:32 PM, Vice force said:

Does Anyone know where I could find a roof kit or roof diagram for  a 1929 Durant ?

No drawings or kits available but if this body is same physical size and the M-2 or model 40 then same roof could be made. Check photos of a 1928 M-2 I am re-wooding on Facebbok page "Automotive Wood Bodies". Judging by the sag in the body you probably need a floor as well.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Cabnut (see edit history)

[BearsFan315]

books i bought for reference on my 1929 Chevrolet

 

[jan arnett (2)]

n

Try doing a 1923  Moon.  Here is what I did with my Moon.  I bought several sheets of foam board and glued them together.  I used a electric knife to cut the patterns.  If it doesn't fit just start over or do another glue up.  When it fits then use it as a pattern

.

Edited August 21, 2019 by jan arnett (2)
spelling (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Out

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jan arnett (2) said:

Here is what I did with my Moon.  I bought several sheets of foam board and glued them together.  I used a electric knife to cut the patterns.  If it doesn't fit just start over or do another glue up.  When it fits then use it as a pattern

What a great idea.  Thanks for sharing.

[8E45E]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 6:02 PM, zipdang said:

This thread just reminded me of a neat little booklet I found in my grandfather's garage promoting the process and quality of the Fisher bodies. It has sections on the wood, metal, glass, upholstery and testing with some great diagrams and pictures of the processes and the plants. I've scanned a few pages to give you the flavor. It is dated 1927 which is a little before this thread's target date.

 

 

 

 

Are there any references to Fisher Body Corporation being owned by General Motors in that publication, being dated '1927'?  It appears to have been printed earlier before GM bought them out.  Unless Fisher Body still had some previous non-GM contracts they had to finish fulfilling.

 

Craig

[zipdang]

8 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Are there any references to Fisher Body Corporation being owned by General Motors in that publication, being dated '1927'?  It appears to have been printed earlier before GM bought them out.  Unless Fisher Body still had some previous non-GM contracts they had to finish fulfilling.

 

Craig

Hi Craig. I would normally answer that questions quickly but I'm in the process of moving and that little book is packed SOMEWHERE. When it turns up, I"ll let you know!

[Guest]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_Body

In 1904 and 1905, the two eldest brothers, Fred and Charles, came to Detroit where their uncle Albert Fisher had established Standard Wagon Works during the latter part of the 1880s. The brothers found work at the C. R. Wilson Company, a manufacturer of horse-drawn carriage bodies that was beginning to make bodies for the automobile manufacturers. With financing from their uncle, on July 22, 1908, Fred and Charles Fisher established the Fisher Body Company. Their uncle soon wanted out and the brothers obtained the needed funds from Detroit businessman Louis Mendelssohn who became a shareholder and director. Within a short period of time, Charles and Fred Fisher brought their five younger brothers into the business.

Prior to forming the company, Fred Fisher had built the body of the Cadillac Osceola at the C. R. Wilson Company. Starting in 1910, Fisher became the supplier of all closed bodies for Cadillac, and also built for Buick.

In the early years of the company, the Fisher Brothers had to develop new body designs because the "horseless carriage" bodies did not have the strength to withstand the vibration of the new motorcars. By 1913, the Fisher Body Company had the capacity to produce 100,000 cars per year and customers included: Ford, Krit, Chalmers, Cadillac, and Studebaker. Highly successful, they expanded into Canada, setting up a plant in Walkerville, Ontario, and by 1914 their operations had grown to become the world's largest manufacturer of auto bodies. One reason for their success was the development of interchangeable wooden body parts that did not require hand-fitting, as was the case in the construction of carriages. This required the design of new precision woodworking tools.

The Fisher Body and Buick chassis were built in Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada, in the 1920s.^{[citation needed]}

Fisher Body Corporation and General Motors[edit]

In 1916, the company became the Fisher Body Corporation. Its capacity was 370,000 bodies per year and its customers included Abbot, Buick, Cadillac, Chalmers, Chandler, Chevrolet, Church-Field, Elmore, EMF, Ford, Herreshoff, Hudson, Krit, Oldsmobile, Packard, Regal, and Studebaker.

The company constructed the now-abandoned Albert Kahn-designed Fisher Body Plant 21, on Piquette Street, in Detroit, in 1919. The building is now part of the Piquette Avenue Industrial Historic District. At the time, the company had more than 40 buildings encompassing 3,700,000 square feet (344,000 m²) of floor space.

[jan arnett (2)]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 5:30 PM, Cabnut said:

No drawings or kits available but if this body is same physical size and the M-2 or model 40 then same roof could be made. Check photos of a 1928 M-2 I am re-wooding on Facebbok page "Automotive Wood Bodies". Judging by the sag in the body you probably need a floor as well.

Check with Rick Botti and the Durant he is currently rebuilding

[Cabnut]

I believe RIck's Durant is a later model and the wood is not the same.