Guest rjones Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 If you had the capabilities and plenty of time, what parts would you reproduce to help out antique car owners? Not talking production runs but a dozen or two maybe and then on to something else. Reproduction of a factory part, not custom parts. Again, consider time to be unlimited and have a complete shop at your disposal. What would it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_in_nh Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Fender skirts?Stainless trim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambarn Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Delco 12 cylinder distributors. Also for twin fire sixes of the late twenties. They are disappearring, there are no options and they are desperately important for many great cars to keep on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Convertible specific die cast trim for early 1960s cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friartuck Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 sambarn is on the right track: Distributor caps of the 20's and 30's is an entire category. Possibly cast iron intake and exhaust manifolds of the same period for various Marques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I think the list would be endless as each marque and model year has specific parts that are hard to find. If you were to go into production , I think it would have to be on an individual need basis as making a small run of some specialty part could be costly especially if you couldn't sell them. That's why it's so hard to find many repro parts as the market demand doesn't justify the costs. I tried once to reproduce stainless horn grilles for '36 Dodge cars. I placed ads seeking to find a market and it took so long to get a reply (over years) that it just drug on. When I did establish a need, the cost was so overwhemlng that production was not possible as most people couldn't pay the price. You could have the old part plated for less money! If you could produce parts on an individual need basis, for a good price and short lead time, you could do well. Once you make a part ,then you have a master to work from. With the new 3-D printing systems and computerated machining , mould models and dies are a lot less work intensive and cheaper to produce. Making a part is one thing, making it affordable is important too. There will always be some people with a bottomless bank account but, from my experience, most of the folks in the hobby are the average type, price does make a deifference. To answer your question though, at least for '36 Dodges here's a partial list: horn grilles, firewall pad retainers, certain stainless body mouldings, hub caps, body panels ( that actually fit), running board covers made as original ( not moulded over), correct interior kits, headlamp wiring parts, correct replacement copper air filter element material, correct top seal, switch knobs, windshield crank mechanisms, certain body trim fasteners to name a few. And the list goes on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I did this for my 36 Chrysler Roadster. I needed the top hold down clamps for the front header. I couldn't find any that the owners would part with, so I was fortunate enough to find a set of loaners from a Plymouth convertible which proved to be a match. I had a new set for myself as well as a few others cast. I finished them and had the machine shop up the road machine what I couldn't do. I now have a few extra sets to sell to offset the cost of having mine made. They are cast in brass same as the originals. The owner that let me borrow them was also missing one of the parts so I had that part made and gave him that as a thank you for letting me borrow the parts I needed to copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 We have made many convertible top assembly parts for 1930's Packards this way. Every time I sell a piece I just assume I will never sell another but eventually the phone rings. It's difficult to charge enough to cover your out of pocket expense and time on most parts but the challenge is fun and you do meet some interesting people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I know non Model A owners are jealous that there is so much repopping for our cars but I think somebody could make a profit on patch panels for the heater hole in the firewall Including part of the goal post. and about a 2 inch square for the front fender where they always crack at the brace. It would have the raised bead and the part to wrap around the wire after the wire was welded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Anything from the early days of Zinc based die casting. That includes many of the previously mentioned early 20's onward Delco distrubuter bodies , as well as lots of other small parts. Parts usually get reproduced when an owner needs one enough to justify commissioning someone to make the patterns. This is often a VERY expensive proposition, and many parts simply do not justify the cost. The rarest parts are often the least viable ; perhaps only 2 or 3 of the cars in existance , so no demand beyond the one that is required for a restoration. Correct reproduction of brass era Firestone rim parts would be a possibility. They are rare and expensive, but there are many different diameter`s and versions. Even correct rim bolts and wedges are very hard to track down, but there are so many different ones . I am thinking of all the different manufactures ;not just Firestone, there must be at least 100 , and only a handful are currently available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 If you could reproduce rubber parts that actually fit and have the correct profiles as the originals such as 1960s vent window trim, you could probably sell a lot of that stuff. It's very tough to find the pieces that fit correctly out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 sambarn is on the right track: Distributor caps of the 20's and 30's is an entire category. I would say distributor caps and rotors starting in the teens and going forward. Not much for the Delco 4 cylinder caps, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Now that you are armed with this information Mr. Jones what are you going to do with it? Which parts do you plan to reproduce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 As keiser said rubber parts are a problem. Having worked in the antique rubber market I've found out why. Rubber parts are not like hard parts; rubber has a bad tendency to dry out and shrink,thus limiting the supply of good samples. Even if you were to find a NOS rubber part , there's a good chance that the part is no longer the exact size, shape or durameter of the original. This is especially true in parts like windshield and vent window seals. Many parts are copied from age old parts removed from cars and these make lousy patterns. In some cases , samples just do not exist. Also the cost of design and manufacturing negate making an effort to reproduce low volume parts and ever finding original factory drawings and specs. is almost out of the question. Yet , there are still some very good repro rubber parts on the market ,especially for the really popular makes and models; for the rest of us we must make due with what's available and our ingenuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Yes, I understand about rubber parts. We make just about every rubber part for 34-36 Auburn, not including extrusions, because we are unhappy with the rubber parts made by other company's. I would say rubber and small castings are the easiest stuff to make. I would like to see Bakelite dist. caps and horn buttons etc. reproduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rjones Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Thanks guys for all the replies! The reason I started this is that I'm sitting with a small fortune in equipment in my shop and am now on full disability. I can't help but think that there are many others more fortunate that love to play in their shop but may not have the time, finances or interest in restoring or owning an antique or classic car. I know there are others who have the equipment and love a challenge but don't want long term commitments as far as production runs etc. The big issues that I see are that no one really knows what to make or what the needs are. I'm sure that most are worried about patent and copyright issues. Then there are just things that we don't know how to do. I see requests for rubber parts and bakelite parts and others. I know mostly about metal so I have no clue on bakelite or rubber but can figure it's not that hard. We have the AACA Library and all the members that all know technical or manufacturing details and processes. So, I'm wondering if there is something we can do to connect the dots to the benefit of the hobby. There are the people that would love a challenge, we have the technology and we have the resources! Do we start a list of needs, a tech page or what? Right now from my couch I only have ideas! What can I do to help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Reproducing something that there is limited demand for is expensive. Even if that part becomes available, will those that need it want to pay the piper? I guess this is what you should be asking. You still have bills to pay, Electric, Insurance, Ect, and the machinery still has to be maintained. Things wear out. It all costs money to keep it working. Are you going to put $7,000. into a mold to sell 10 Distributor caps for even $100 a pop? Find a Need for something simple and try your hand at that first. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 There is a limitation in your situation at least as far as you have explained it. Most automotive parts need a machine shop as a final operation. The vast majority that need machine operations start out as castings or forgings. There are a few things such as shafts or pins that can be made from raw stock but they are the minority. It is the pattern and casting / forging die- completed raw part stage that makes most reproductions uneconomical. They involve specialized skills, extremely expensive equiptment, alloy steels , heat treating etc. etc. From almost the start of the auto industry nearly all of the parts were made by specialist sub-manufactures. Axle companys were made by axle companys, wheels , frames ,engines , gear boxes , steering gears, ad infinite. Each component has so much specialized metalworking knowledge. Which alloy is suitable, heat treatment, tooling that will provide parts that are accurate in size. Even a well equipted machine shop is just the start to being able to turn out a part. I don't want to discourage you, but there are quite a few well skilled machinists that are already in the parts game. What the hobby needs are pattern makers, foundry men, and tool and die men. Unfortunately they are for the most part a dying breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Sorry , I intended to say" axle assemblies were made by axle companys" in the above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prs519 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Model A Ford phaetons often morphed into trucks during World War 2, because it was easy to do, and because it reportedly allowed for a better gas stamp under farm vehicles. I would say rear quarter panels for Model A phaetons would be a welcome reproduction, as the rest of the missing parts can be bought or fabricated.A friend once told me he knew of at least four of these phaetons awaiting discovery of the back portion. My late father waited many years to find quarters for his phaeton, which were found deep in the Snake River Canyon. The parts looked like an old burn barrel that had been run over by a D9 caterpillar! Yet, a happier man was hard to find! The car is now beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coley Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) I have been reproducing parts from zinc ally for parts that were zinc originally, but done in the diecast method.Die-cast is very expensive, unless you make hundreds of them.I do many one to 10 copies of a part for restoration shops or even one of a kind, for a walk-in customer.One problem is that when you go through the tooling process for casting parts, and put a few out for sale, they won't sell because the owner of the car is saying: Now that that hard to find part is being made, I can always get it, so I will now look for the next hardest part to find.They don't realize that if the parts don't sell, when they are offered, they may not be made again.I do custom parts for dealers and shops, but I also make a lot of Chevy parts just to sell for myself.Currently I have been making Packard as well as Chevy tail light stands for the 1930s cars.Your best bet for making parts is to get ahold of dealers or Forums of the brand of car that is your favorite and quiz them as to what they get the most calls for.You can reproduce most any die-cast part with just some Petro-Bond, no Bake and plaster casting methods.The supplies are not expensive and and the Zinc alloys are not costly items. A small mill, a metal lathe and a drill press will get you done with the machining, most of the time.A belt sander and a bead blast cabinet is very helpful.What is expensive is YOUR time. That is the hardest part......figuring what to charge for your items.Ebay is a good evaluator. Put a price on it and see if it sells. Then, lower the price until it does.Look up parts that are selling that are original parts. See what they are payiong for damaged originals and then set your price a little higher for your new one.You can have outside foundries cast brass, aluminum and cast iron for you, if you can make them a good pattern.The new 3D printers are getting cheaper all the time and may be a good way to make patterns.Just a few suggestions. Edited March 18, 2014 by Coley (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79 speedster Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I am currently doing an Overland speedster that was made only in 1914 with an estimated production run of 48 to 50 cars. I have had to reproduce some cast parts that where only used on this model. When I looked into having patterns made for the cowl light brackets the cost was shocking. The estimate was $2600 for the two patterns. I decided to take a weekend and do it myself. They turned out very nice, had three pair cast in bronze and reduced the total cost to about $350 per pair.Even though they cost about $350/pair, it was a cost we where happy to spend to get a part that does not exist. Now that I was successful doing the cowl light brackets it gave me confidence to carve patterns for the cars spoon throttle system which also does not exist except in a factory blue print. Also there is personal satisfaction of learning or doing something new. Check out the attached pictures of the patterns and castings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 79 speedster, you are a craftsman of a high order. I applaud your tenacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyshack Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 There is one item that I often see in the Ford wanted section that is no longer being reproduced. '26/'27 nickel or chrome plated brass radiator shrouds. Not a complicated stamping by any means, and always in demand. A superior quality reproduction can be very rewarding to not only collectors, but also the hot rod markets. I have an original and a repro, and the lacing holes on the repro are square instead of round. Maybe exact reproductions would infringe on patent rights. Might have to check that out.Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjamin j Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I would think those would both be fairly easy to make and reproduce. I have done some sand castings to reproduce parts that were unavailable in the past. For the distributor cap you would have to make a release mold and procure the proper chemicals but still a fairly easy project. fun projects for some body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79 speedster Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Thanks for the compliment Curt. Necessity is truly the mother of invention. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Totally agree with the pattern maker/ foundry shortage. We had a very good brass and aluminum foundry here that closed up a number of years ago because of the Encon Laws, and also being unable to compete with foreign markets. We did it 200 years ago, and we are still capable of producing stuff, but have been regulated out of the main stream of being able to do it economically. My advice. Anyone doing this in your back yard, DO NOT advertise it. A local scrap dealer who closed up a number of years ago had an aluminum smelter. It was a small operation. The goberment came in and told him he had to shut it down and levied him with some fines for making the scrap easier to handle. It only makes one depressed thinking about it. Dandy Dave! Edited March 21, 2014 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I am currently doing an Overland speedster that was made only in 1914 with an estimated production run of 48 to 50 cars. I have had to reproduce some cast parts that where only used on this model. When I looked into having patterns made for the cowl light brackets the cost was shocking. The estimate was $2600 for the two patterns. I decided to take a weekend and do it myself. They turned out very nice, had three pair cast in bronze and reduced the total cost to about $350 per pair.Even though they cost about $350/pair, it was a cost we where happy to spend to get a part that does not exist. Now that I was successful doing the cowl light brackets it gave me confidence to carve patterns for the cars spoon throttle system which also does not exist except in a factory blue print. Also there is personal satisfaction of learning or doing something new. Check out the attached pictures of the patterns and castings.Fantastic looking work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Don't worry about patents. They expire after 17 years and cannot be renewed. Anything patented before 1997 is ok to make.Trademarks are a different matter. If the company is still in business they can come after you for trademark infringement. You can make parts that fit a Ford and can be used on Fords but if you want to put the Ford name or trademark on them, you must get permission.This is not that hard, believe it or not. They are mainly worried about 1) losing the right to their trademark. This can happen if they do not defend their rights. 2) Liability. Bad parts with their name on them can leave them open to a lawsuit.There were some legal cases over this a few years ago. Some antique parts makers got caught in a dragnet aimed at Chinese counterfeiters. But, the car makers gave certain vintage parts suppliers permission to put their name on them, provided they were of OEM quality and for old models the manufacturer no longer supported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I think 3D printers and scanning can make a big difference from the pattern making side of things. Maybe when I retire.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geigs Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Timely, I'm in desperate need of a steering column firewall seal for a 56 President Classic with power steering. No one reproduces it. It's part number 306908. Not sure what would be the best way to proceed. Any suggestions? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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