Wheel bolts instead of lugnuts? What cars?

[brad54]

My '54 Buick has wheel bolts instead of lugnuts...

What other cars came with bolts instead of lugnuts?

-Brad

[keiser31]

A LOT of Chrysler products came with lug bolts.

[Guest]

Volkswagen, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Citroen, Renault, Peugeot, Volvo, Saab. Yugo, Ferrari, Fiat, Skoda, Maybach.

Edited May 19, 2013 by helfen (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

most prewar cars

[Guest Art Griffin]

Kaiser and Frazer cars (built from 1946 through 1954, plus several in 1955) used bolts instead of lug nuts. Art Griffin

[Earl B.]

Packard and 1955 Buick

[MarrsCars]

Many (if not all?) modern Mercedes still do.

[Jim Bollman]

All Crosleys

[Marty Roth]

My 1930 Packard has Lugbolts.

[R Walling]

This post can only lead to the question, Which are better? + -

I suspose that it would be harder to screw up (pun intended) the threads with the bolts, but harder to line uo the holes.

[keiser31]

This post can only lead to the question, Which are better? + -

I suspose that it would be harder to screw up (pun intended) the threads with the bolts, but harder to line uo the holes.

Chrysler products had alignment pins on the drums and extra holes in the wheels to make it easier.

[Guest]

This post can only lead to the question, Which are better? + -

I suspose that it would be harder to screw up (pun intended) the threads with the bolts, but harder to line uo the holes.

Surely you are kidding? Having been in the automotive business for 40+ years I've seen plenty of people install lug nuts backwards........, and almost kill themselves.......You can't do that with lug bolts.

[JD in KC]

Chrysler products had alignment pins on the drums and extra holes in the wheels to make it easier.

Ditto Packard.

[Matt Harwood]

I, too, would like to go on record as saying that lug bolts are a positively AWFUL idea. I have them on my 2005 Audi and hate, hate, hate them. Under perfect conditions, in my garage with lights and a stable jack, it's a pain. Put the wheel on and hope it clings to the tiny hub lip while I thread a bolt in there. Oops, the brake rotor shifted a fraction of an inch, now none of the bolt holes are aligned. Pull off wheel, tweak rotor, carefully reinstall wheel, get lug wrench, put bolt in lug wrench, feed it down the deep hole in the wheel and hope it grabs before the wheel falls off the hub again. It helps to sit on the dirty ground and brace it with your feet, I hope you're not elderly and trying that bit of acrobatics. Oh, and don't cross-thread it and tear up the threads, because you just bought a new $800 hub instead of a replacement $0.80 wheel stud.

Now try to do this in, say, 22 degree weather, by the side of the road, at night, with traffic roaring by, in a suit, while it's snowing. Or let your wife try it. Yeah, lug bolts are beyond an awful idea.

I'd totally be willing to take my chances with putting a single lug nut on backwards to save myself from this nonsense.

[Mark Simmons]

As I recall all the older Buicks and Chrysler products that I've owned had lug bolts. I never found them to be all that difficult to deal with while mounting/remounting a wheel on the given car. A short bit of mild steel rod no longer that 4 inches the proper size with the proper thread size and direction help with alignment. Of course you'll need 2 or 4 of them right hand thread and or left hand thread 1 or 2 for the shop and 1 or 2 in the road tool box that you carry depending on which car you are in for the minor emergencies that might happen when were out and about. In the case of the Chrysler products it's best to have one of each r/h and l/h depending on which side of the car you're dealing with.

[HarryLime]

Say, Matt. My 1992 Mercedes came with an aluminum stud in the tool kit. With the wheel off simply screw the stud into the hub and hang the wheel on the stud. Install four lug bolts remove the aluminum stud and install the last bolt. If Audi didn't come with one ....making one would be far easier than cursing the darkness. Best wishes.........

[Guest]

Learn the proper technique and there is absolutely no problem installing a wheel on a car with lug bolts....even in the snow. Strip off that suit jacket and get those overalls in the trunk that you stowed just for one of these occasions with your rubber gloves and no problem, and no problem with your shoes because you have your shoe rubbers on and that army blanket also just for these occasions to sit/kneel on.

Course, the guy who on a car that uses lug nuts that puts them on backward wouldn't have all the necessary gear either or the brains, as he/she will soon find out when the wheel goes by.

[Guest]

Say, Matt. My 1992 Mercedes came with an aluminum stud in the tool kit. With the wheel off simply screw the stud into the hub and hang the wheel on the stud. Install four lug bolts remove the aluminum stud and install the last bolt. If Audi didn't come with one ....making one would be far easier than cursing the darkness. Best wishes.........

Of course it does, and for the cars that don't have a special tool there is also a SIMPLE technique for starting a bolt. It may mean using your loaf to figure it out though, and the answer is NOT calling AAA as that's used for non car people.

Edited May 20, 2013 by helfen (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

Also, some lug bolts are threaded left hand on the driver side and right hand on the passenger side.

[Guest Super Dave]

Ditto Hudson!

[mastertech]

2013 dodge dart has them

[39BuickEight]

My '39 Buick has them

[padgett]

Sounds like an aftermarket opportunity - replace lugbolts with studs and nutz. That Audi not having dowelpins to align the rotor just sounds dumb. OTOH for a hub centric design, being able to hang on the hub and rotate to align does have an appeal.

[TexRiv_63]

I just had some firsthand experience with this today as I had to change a tire on my 34 Packard, the first car I've ever owned with wheel bolts. Removing the wheel was no problem other than they sure are HEAVY! Mounting the spare was fun though, I just blundered ahead and muscled it onto the hub - unfortunately when I tried to turn it to match the holes the drum turned too. I tried reaching around to hold the drum while rotating the wheel but it just slipped off the narrow hub flange and dropped on my foot - OWW! At that point I stopped and read through the owners manual which is what I should have done first. Turns out they designed the lug wrench with a tapered end that goes through the wheel hole and into the drum hole, you can use it as both a lever to lift the wheel and a dowel to center the holes so you can start the bolts. I had the car up too high to do the lever trick but the dowel function works great. They also tell you to lubricate the bolts to aid installation without cross threading. I'm lucky I still have the original lug wrench!

[Joseph P. Indusi]

Both of my Buicks, 1948 and 1953, have a steel pin or dowel protruding from the drums. There are extra holes, smaller in diameter than the bolt holes to slide over this pin. This and the raised part of the center of the drums make it easy to position the wheel to get a bolt started.

Joe, BCA 33493

[padgett]

I recall some European cars had a flat head screw in the drum to keep the drum and hub aligned.

[Guest prs519]

Chrysler products had alignment pins on the drums and extra holes in the wheels to make it easier.

Buick at least back to 37 had bolts and 3 alignment pins (probably good engineering, but a pain in the neck for at least to reasons IMHO.

1. you had a left hand thread on one side of the car, and a right on the other so that in motion they would have a tendency to tighten

themselves, rather than loosen, when the wheels were turning.

2. with the alignment pins on the drum, if you needed a wheel for some reason, any old wheel would not do. You needed another with

the three holes drilled for the wheel to match the drum. I recently needed to put a spare on a 51 Kaiser, which also had one alignment

pin remaining on the drum. Shameful to say that I fixed it with a hack saw, so the spare which still held air would fit. Definitely would not

have been the original spare.

[Guest prs519]

Sorry, I forgot the third reason (previous post). Since the lug bolts are such a fine SAE thread, it is not real difficult when rushing the tire change, to cross-thread the

bolt. This especially, as was mentioned, in inclement weather. Even if you just do it a little bit (especially with a bolt previously damaged), you can booger the threads

on the tip of the bolt, thereby making it ever more difficult to recover, hoping that the new resistance you feel is straigtening out the damaged thread rather than a

symptom of more cross-threading. The concentration it takes is epically humorous.

[Guest shadetree77]

My '52 Buick has them. It also has the guide dowel/pin mentioned set up just like Joe said above. My wife's 2010 VW has them too.

[oldcar]

Way back before then my 1923 Packard Six has them. Probably the first Packard model to do so. Also VWs from the 1950s and my 1996 Peugeot 405SRi.

Bj

[Guest Foggy norm]

IF you position the drum pin/dowel at the bottom, the wheel will rest on it and the top can be shifted slightly at the top for aligning. Put a couple of bolt's in the top then spin the wheel and continue with the bolt's.

[Rusty_OToole]

If you have to use an off brand spare on a hub with pins just drill holes in the wheel. I have done this to fit Ford wheels or later model Chrysler wheels onto old Chrysler products. Including mag wheels. On Chryslers a 5/16" drill makes good pilot holes.

A handy tool for changing tires is a shovel. Roll the tire onto the shovel, slide into position, and lift the tire onto the hub by lifting the shovel handle. This is especially handy for changing truck tires and heavy tires.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)