Perfect condition vs charm

The more I drive my car and get compliments on it the less I want to restore to perfect condition. I made wood flooring out of oak and it looks very cool but it is not 'original'. I'm a novice painter and the paint job sows it.

i see cars like mine that have been frame-off restored to perfection and I don't care for them as much as my rough-around-the-edges car. I looked at all the old Dodges at the recent convention and think, wow, my car is a POS compared to those....but I still prefer mine.

I've heard the term 'survivor' but I don't think I qualify.

Anyone else prefer the rough/used look?

I think cars restored to showroom stock condition have their place if you have the funds and are not concerned about the economics of getting all of it back out of the car if you decide to sell later on (but not over-restoration). Unless you are capable of doing top quality restoration and start with a good original car, it doesn't make economic sense unless the car is in big demand. So if the first two points don't bother you and you get a thrill buying a car fully restored (but having no part in the process), that's fine. I get satisfaction from this hobby because I enjoy learning how to do a reasonably good job (not show quality by any stretch) and taking pride in the end result. If you are lucky enough to find/afford a nice original antique auto in good serviceable condition (what I would call a survivor), to me that is much more interesting because the car's history shows though in details such as wear patterns, patina, etc. When you have a car that is beyond the point of driving as-is and restoration is the only option, I find it much more interesting to talk to the owner who has done the work (or most of it), knows the details.

For me it's all about the learning and having fun in the process of it all.

From the research, to the search for finding parts & tinkering with parts I've never seen before... The simplicity and the way they were designed along with the automobile stewardship that I feel we are all accountable to is the true joy of it all.

When it's not fun then it's time for a new hobby. Do the best you can to the best of your ability and enjoy.

Wow, very well said by both of you! I agree, the fun is doing and learning. Anyone with money can buy an antique but a select few of us enjoy preserving history.

I jiat drove my 26 DB coupe to the gas station and grocery store. It turned heads the whole way. I had 2 different people ask me about the car and I enjoyed sharing what I've learned. People are facinated with the wood spokes. They ask about the hand crank and everyone loves the horn.

Yep ... I am with you guys 100% ... My 34 Dodge was restored more than 20 years ago and a little rough around the edges .. I bought it about 7 years back, and I have never had so much enjoyment as I get when we are out driving ... If I had unlimited funds, I doubt it could buy me any more enjoyment.... Take them out end use them

I doubt it's just me but I can't say I'm crazy about cars that are restored SO well they look as if they've never been touched.

I regard cars as things to be driven and enjoyed........not looked at and enjoyed

None of my 5 cars are restored but range from respectable to eh.

Doesn't matter to me.......I drive and have fun with them and no matter where I go with whatever car invariably someone strikes up a conversation.

I don't have to worry about anyone touching my cars or getting a scratch in an $8000 + paint job.

Maybe that's not what others might call fun but that's what I call fun....... :cool:

I guess I can look at this from both sides. Mine was 95% stripped when I bought it ( and also lacked any type of paint job ) and have spent a lot of time ( and money ) rebuilding her. I'm trying to do the best I can with the knowledge ( lacking at lot if the time ) I have. Mine isn't perfect but at the end of the day I can look back and say wow, I did that. I would also love to have and drive a "barn find". Something that has not been touched and do an "oily rag restoration". Again both would have the end result of driving and enjoying my car. Even in the garage at the moment friends come over and when they see the car for the first time are amazed that something so old is being preserved. They all can't wait until it's finished, so I better not check out until it's done. You get to a point and say, ah well I've come this far I might as well keep going.

i love driving along the road and coming up on a historic car. I always slow down to have a look. So to me it doesn't matter how good or bad the condition is but the fact it is out on the road and the owner is as proud as punch driving his / her car.

My time will come and Yep I'll have a grin from ear to ear.

Id better get a wide angle lens for that day.

enjoy the motoring

Ian

It's all about the therapy" that the time spent working on these old cars provide, I know myself nothing like the "quiet time" I get from it, it's not a race do a little do a lot to each his own but I ll bet to whatever state you bring these relics back to most will always grab the eye of anyone interested in these fine old beauties.....

Charm is sure a heckofalot cheaper than perfect! And if you sell you'll never be the guy whose ad reads," 50k invested, must sacrifice, 10k OBO"

Lots of great comments,

i feel the same way about my cars and trucks, they are not museum pieces and are usually driven on on a regular bases.

I enjoy the research and the time spent learning and repairing ,the travels in finding parts

when I go places, always good comments and interest, and I can honestly say when asked who did the work, I Did.

and not oh I didn't do the work, I wrote the check,

Vintage vehicles are cheaper than therapy!

jesse

Anyone else prefer the rough/used look?

*raises hand* Me!

Vehicles are supposed to be driven. I do love original restorations, but could never own one myself ... 1st, couldn't afford it & 2nd, I wouldn't drive it ... & I love driving too much.

Cort www.oldcarsstronghearts.com

1979 & 1989 Caprice Classics | pigValve, paceMaker, cowValve

"I think I finally know just what it means" __ Mac Davis __ 'Texas In My Rearview Mirror'

Absolutely! They are great to see and usually have a great story to go with them. I wish more people would bring their less than perfect cars to shows so that we can see them and talk with the owners. All my antiques were unrestored originals that generated lots of good stories at shows. Most people remember how they looked after they were driven not as the restored versions seen at shows.

Terry

I'm with you guys. Love the idea of taking parts off cleaning them up. Love to think what as happening in the world when theses parts were originally installed. My enjoyment comes from working on them, not necessarily driving the. I have two Dodges, 1917 and 1929, both in restoration mode and loving it.

Absolutely! They are great to see and usually have a great story to go with them. I wish more people would bring their less than perfect cars to shows so that we can see them and talk with the owners. All my antiques were unrestored originals that generated lots of good stories at shows. Most people remember how they looked after they were driven not as the restored versions seen at shows.

Terry

The last car show I went to I felt like I had driven an old jelopy onto the new car lot! Virtually everything that that was there was all spit-and-polish. I sat there in a lounge chair and watched a guy and his wife spending an hour polishing their car. I looked at my paint job and decided I didn't need to go to any more car shows.

My most recent purchase was a nice, mostly original car so I wouldn't have to worry about sinking a ton of money into it. I've done a few minor things to it like buying some NOS parts to replace some of the trim and some under hood items that were replaced with generic parts. I'm also cleaning things here and there. The chassis and undercarriage is in great shape and most of it is cleaning up very nicely.

Any future purchases will only be of cars like this one.

The last car show I went to I felt like I had driven an old jelopy onto the new car lot! Virtually everything that that was there was all spit-and-polish. I sat there in a lounge chair and watched a guy and his wife spending an hour polishing their car. I looked at my paint job and decided I didn't need to go to any more car shows.

Exactly........and same here.......

There will always be those who will have perfect cars at shows. When you say I'm not going to any more shows because of them you are missing out on great opportunities to show your car to others who would like to see what you have and know more about it. Not everyone wants to see show only level cars at car shows.

Terry

I have had one of my 1931 DB coupes (the car in my avatar) in a show or two. It is not a well restored car. It has cardboard door panels. I drive it. I do NOT win trophies. I enjoy it without the worry that I have no awards on my shelf. I do not need any more dust collectors on my shelves. Everyone asks what I would do if I hit something or someone hits me....."fix it and keep driving it" is my standard answer. I have told a story about a friend before who had chased down a car (1931 Chrysler CD8 roadster) his ENTIRE life. He ended up with it. He restored it or had it restored to perfection. He has owned it for quite a few decades now and it only has 4 miles on it from loading and unloading from a trailer. I ask you....where is the thrill in trailering a gorgeous car and simply showing it off? I gotta tell you that I had more people milling around my less than perfect car that there were around the other cars at the shows.

There will always be those who will have perfect cars at shows. When you say I'm not going to any more shows because of them you are missing out on great opportunities to show your car to others who would like to see what you have and know more about it. Not everyone wants to see show only level cars at car shows.

I agree ... but, when you have one of the cars that don't seem to "fit in" with the rest of the crowd at a car show (or even a cruise night) ... you kinda don't want to go back ... b/c you feel out of place. Been there, done that ... too many times. AND YET ... in some cases, I have gone back anyway....

Cort www.oldcarsstronghearts.com

1979 & 1989 Caprice Classics | pigValve, paceMaker, cowValve

"Never knowing where these roads are going" __ Zero Ground __ 'Twenty and Something'

It's interesting how you guys seem to have car shows packed with fully restored cars. Over here relatively few top drawer cars are to be seen at local shows unless it is a "concours" event and then the competition is intense!.

Of course, you are always going to have the "spit and polish" element who turn up at a local show and walk away with the top gongs but last year a guy turned up with what looked like a newly restored dual cowl Packard from the early thirties (I can't recall exactly) on a trailer. He had reserved two spaces and when the immaculate car was in position he proceeded to rope it off with notices added like "do not touch" around the car. It was like visiting a National Trust country house!! The car was admirable but everyone felt as if they were being pushed away. My '26 Dodge Brothers was parked opposite and I kept getting requests to photograph admirers next to it. It made me feel 10 feet tall. One lady said she liked the Dodge best of all the cars - including the Packard!!!!!

Being British, we tend to admire the under dog for bringing along his 'work in progress' type of car or perhaps a "barn find". Here, originality and that favourite expression used by classic car dealers "patina" is becoming the holy grail but to me (what with the now voluntary nature of the M.O.T test) it seems to be a license to present any old wreck in an artificially good light. I think there is something quite charming about an honest old car showing it's history with a bit of wear here and there but the trouble I have is that sometimes the odd paint blister or an obvious 'ding' will BUG ME! and I simply have to tidy it up again. My cars will never be show stoppers but they are cared for and that matters to me.

Ray. <script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/5b5921c6/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/5b5921c6/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

That's awesome Ray. Love it!

you won....even if you didn't take home a trophy

I like the completely restored vehicles equally. Not that I have a preference one over the other but it is amazing some of the craftsmanship (not to mention the man hours) that go into a high quality restoration. But then again,, give me anything pre war and I could look at it in admiration for days on end... Finished or Unfinished.

Pic of me and my car at the car show.

OK, confession time......I lied....I do enjoy car shows....sort of.

Friday night I was surfing Craigslist looking at vintage cars and saw an ad for a car show about 6 miles from my house. It was on Saturday and was gonna be a pretty day....the show was at a church and the $20 entry fee was to raise money for a charity that helps needy people get oil changes and car maintenance. So Saturday morning I washed up my '26 DB Couple and drove her to the show.

I had a few dozen people come by and admire the car and ask questions. There were well over 100 cars there...but mine was unique. There were lots of Mustangs, Corvettes and Chargers....and a few better-than-new old cars and few rat rods. I think mine was the oldest car there....including the rat rods. I certainly was the only car there with wooden spokes!

I went to look at this rat rod that had its hood up. It was 1932 Ford and had a big V6 with chrome all over the place including the exhaust manifolds, air conditioning compressor, chrome braded plug wires, etc. The trunk was open and lined with red velvet. So as I'm looking at this car, I hear this woman looking at the trunk say, "Now, this trunk would not have originally been this nice would it?" OMG! Really?! That is the only thing you see on this car that you think might not original?! LOL I just smiled at her and shrugged.

I should have left before the gave out the awards. I told myself I was not expecting to win anything but I guess secretly I was hoping to take home a trophy. They gave out about 15 trophies. They lumped all cars older than 1980 or so into the same bucket. I did not win anything.

I had 1 guy tell me that he thought my car the best car in the entire show. I noticed that some people are drawn to old car like mine like a moth to light while others just glance and show no interest and head over to look at the Mustangs and Vettes. Most of the old people loved my car.

So the lesson I learned was to go to the show for a couple of hours and enjoy talking to people and letting the kids honk the horn but then leave before the awards are given out.

Well said, great looking 26 DB

go to the shows with that attitude and enjoy!

let the people that appreciate old iron enjoy

don't expect a trophy ,

your car or truck is your trophy,

happy crusin!!

Did you go to the 100 DB Centinnial in Detroit?

Well said, great looking 26 DB

go to the shows with that attitude and enjoy!

let the people that appreciate old iron enjoy

don't expect a trophy ,

your car or truck is your trophy,

happy crusin!!

Did you go to the 100 DB Centinnial in Detroit?

No, I missed that....probably won't make the next one either. ;-)

I'm glad you had a good time; you will go again!

I guess we can all learn from the public reaction to our cars. WE learn to respect other people's preferences even though we may not particularly like what they have done to their cars and others can learn something about our wish to keep these very old cars in original condition as an historical record of what would have been common place in the past. In Rayworld, the more a vintage car is modified, the less desirable it becomes but I expect in the real world the opposite is true!

Hopefully, given time, more credit will be given to our true motoring heritage (as opposed to a modern interpretation) and fewer people will come away with a false impression like that lady and the '32 Ford. A car can only be original once.

Ray.<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/30f86223/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

Those are the shows I enjoy

I won't make next in Iowa

GOD permitting I will make the New Jersey 2016 with the 30 DA

jesse

I guess we can all learn from the public reaction to our cars. WE learn to respect other people's preferences even though we may not particularly like what they have done to their cars and others can learn something about our wish to keep these very old cars in original condition as an historical record of what would have been common place in the past. In Rayworld, the more a vintage car is modified, the less desirable it becomes but I expect in the real world the opposite is true!

Not necessarily, Ray. LOL. I'm of similar opinion ... the more modified a car is, the less I really want it!

1 thing that has always bugged me about this hobby ... is how many people are NOT respectful of another's dislikes or likes. I always go to the old idea that this would be a boring world if we all liked the exact same thing. While I may not like what someone has done (or hasn't done, in some cases) to their vehicle, I ALWAYS can appreciate the WORK & time & effort & heart'n'soul they've put into it. If that makes sense.....

Cort www.oldcarsstronghearts.com

1979 & 1989 Caprice Classics | pigValve, paceMaker, cowValve

"Isn't that the way they say it goes?" __ Jim Croce __ 'Operator'

I for one like your style, cort

Looking at the market it seems that once a rare car arrives at the sunlit uplands of adoration of the privileged elite, it is safe from the hot rod fraternity. You don't see too many 250 Californian Ferraris being customised. When did you last see a Rolls Royce Silver Ghost with a chopped top and wide wheels? Get my drift?

So, perhaps we are looking at a question of perceived value. If an antique car has a low residual value in the market then the easiest way to add value is to make eye catching changes to it. There seems to be quite a strong following for these customised cars but logic would tend to suggest that the practise is unsustainable because, as they say, they are not making any more. While I think it will be many years, if ever, before original Fords become so rare as to be highly sought after, certain models of other cars like Dodge Brothers for example, are already getting quite thin on the ground so I predict original, unspoilt examples will eventually fetch pretty good money. The logic of this, however, seems to dictate that even more of our motoring heritage needs to be sacrificed; resulting in a much smaller number of original unspoilt cars ending up in the hands of investors.

who knows? Only time will tell.

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I for one like your style, cort

Ha ... cool, TY, sir!

& yes, I get your drift. I'd suspect you're onto something there. A lot of the "perceived cheaper" cars get the modification attention, while the high-end stuff rarely, if ever, is drastically changed. Interesting to consider what might happen in the future....

Cort www.oldcarsstronghearts.com

1979 & 1989 Caprice Classics | pigValve, paceMaker, cowValve

"What are you gonna do when that new wears off?" __ Shenandoah __ 'See If I Care'

Looking at the market it seems that once a rare car arrives at the sunlit uplands of adoration of the privileged elite, it is safe from the hot rod fraternity.

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I like the way you talk brother. Next time I make it to England we need to have a few pints!

Thankyou gentlemen. We could indeed enjoy a beverage or two at my local - and the drinks are on me!<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/30f86223/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

Charm and normal are nice but we have to admit... this thing is amazing http://www.thewholecar.com/1930-bentley-blue-train-recreation

Charm is good and has it's place but stunning craftsmanship is something I'm sure we can all appreciate equally. Especially when they are preserving the history of any classic.

Wow really nice job. Only one mistake that I can see. They put the steering wheel on the wrong side.

Wow, nice museum piece.

Given enough money, I could restore Titanic.

Wonderful as this re creation is, it should be remembered that Bentley never produced a straight 8. Don't get me wrong, I admire the craftsmanship that has been lavished on this car, but I do think some people have more money than sense sometimes. The Original 'Blue Train' Bentley was a Speed Six; indeed the Gurney Nutting fastback which inspired this car was not actually delivered to Wolf Barnato until 2 months after he had won the famous race. A synopsis of this confusing story is here:

https://stevemckelvie.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/bentley-and-the-blue-train/

Ray.<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/4dd8d9fb/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

Given enough money, I could restore Titanic.

Yes but do you have the skill it takes

That Bentley recreation is something! And if no historical objects were harmed in its fabrication, who could complain? I suppose Bentley purists could but taking inspiration from a fabulous historical machine and creating a tasteful interpretation is far preferable than sacrificing a rare original. I suppose there could be trademark/copyright issues though....

Mike, I don't think Bentley purists would bat an eyelid - because it's not a real Bentley! As I have pointed out in 'general discussion' there are many 'replica Le Mans' bodied Vintage chassis where the original closed coachwork - often of outstanding quality - has been replaced with an inferior touring style but which for some reason sell for a lot more. As you say, no Vintage Bentley's were (hopefully) harmed in the making of this car.

An interesting suggestion re: Trademark... do these things still apply after the firm (Gurney Nutting in this case) have ceased to exist?

Apparently it failed to find a buyer at Auction. Perhaps a warning to others with deep pockets...?

Ray.

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Yes but do you have the skill it takes

No....but if I had the money, I can buy the skills. It's unlikely any one person did all the restoration....presumably that restore had an upolstry guy, a body man, a good mechanic, a paint expert, etc.

My granddaddy told me he had the same hammer for over 60 years. He'd replaced the head once and the handle 3 times. ;-)