6 volt starter on a 12 volt system

[Norman Biggs]

I'm plan to up grade my system to 12 volt.   This is a 2 part question.  First in reference to the subject.  I not clear if a 6v starter work on a 12v system, can it be converted or does it matter?  I planned on using voltage reducers for my Heater and Horns.  Second question, I thought I'd move the battery and fuse panel to the trunk.  Not being an expert will have any trouble with the long lengths of wire?

[edinmass]

How is a 12 volt an upgrade? Keep it stock. They drove countless miles on six volts. It’s an illusion to think that going to 12 volts is an improvement. 

[TerryB]

Adding longer runs of wire increases the resistance of the wire to the flow of current which is not a desirable thing.  The solution is to use larger diameter wire that will lower the resistance.  The extra resistance would be most critical in circuits that draw a lot of current like starters, non-led lighting, electric wiper motors and the like.  Having the battery in the back and the starter up front will require heavier than average 12v battery cables to compensate for the added length.

[kar3516]

34 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Adding longer runs of wire increases the resistance of the wire to the flow of current which is not a desirable thing.  The solution is to use larger diameter wire that will lower the resistance.  The extra resistance would be most critical in circuits that draw a lot of current like starters, non-led lighting, electric wiper motors and the like.  Having the battery in the back and the starter up front will require heavier than average 12v battery cables to compensate for the added length.

What @edinmass and @TerryB said.  Think of electrical wiring like you would for fluid flow in a pipe or hose.  More flow (current - amps) needs a bigger pipe or you will create pressure drop.  Longer pipe creates more pressure drop.  More current needs larger wire and a longer wire length makes the problem worse.  If the electrical device at the end of the wire needs a specified amp flow at a specific voltage then using inadequate wire size or making the wire too long will create issues. 

[Norman Biggs]

53 minutes ago, edinmass said:

How is a 12 volt an upgrade? Keep it stock. They drove countless miles on six volts. It’s an illusion to think that going to 12 volts is an improvement. 

Thanks Terry 

The original wiring Is shot.  I would like to install a new radio and speaker.

[ABear]

23 minutes ago, Norman Biggs said:

Thanks Terry 

The original wiring Is shot.  I would like to install a new radio and speaker.

To use modern accessories on a 6V system they do make 6V to 12V converters for that application.

 

Here is a Amazon search.

 

https://www.amazon.com/6v-12v-converter/s?k=6v+to+12v+converter

 

You do have a bit of a problem if the original wiring is shot, generic wire harnesses are designed for 12V systems which accessories draw less current than 6V accessories... So the 12V wiring harnesses will not have heavy enough wiring for 6V use.

 

That would bring you to the point of finding a custom wire harness builder to make one for your 6V system or convert over to 12V.

 

Conversions to 12V are not as simple as one thinks, not just your starter is affected but so is the generator, regulator, electric dash gauges, lighting will all have to be changed out, may need to change your ignition coil or add additional resistor. Not to mention the pos or neg grounding issue if yours is pos ground..

 

As far as running a 6V starter on 12V goes, yeah, that can be and often is done.. It will run much faster. But in doing so without converting (IE rewiring) the starter to 12V tends to shorten the life of the starter. My Dad did use 12V on a 48 Ford flathead which was used on a oilwell pulling rig for many, many yrs, we never had a problem with the starter but the gen and anything else 6V was disconnected.

[Norman Biggs]

Kar3516

I thought there was an issue with this.  The battery box under the seat for all practical purposes is nonexistent.  This is Pontiac 4 door Sedan that had stored inside for last 45 years.  It's nice but it won't be winning any shows.  Thanksfor the knowledge. 

 

[m-mman]

You asked specifically about the starter.  

Running 12 volts to a 6v starter spins it faster and harder and the first thing to break is the starter drive (Bendix) because it is being slammed into the flywheel. 

You replace that, and then the extra current (aka heat) begins to melt to solder in the armature.  When this happens it is game over. 

 

The Voltage is "baked into" the car. ALL bulbs, ALL wires, ALL gauges, ALL electrical components.  People think that changing the voltage (and polarity?) is a simple "upgrade". Nope, to do so is a tremendous amount of parts and effort. And despite what some suppliers say, nothing about wiring is painless. 

 

You (and your parts house) may not be fluent in 6 volt, but take it from all the experienced folks on this board, FIXING your small 6 volt issues is WAYYYYYYyyyyyy EASIER than converting to 12 volts. 

 

And those stories you hear and YouTube videos about how people "upgraded" by simply putting a 12 volt battery under the hood and adding a few resistors? Well, they never keep their upgraded car very long. They either pass the headache on to someone else, or part by part, bit by bit, they invest more time and energy than it ever would have taken to repair the 6 volt system. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

18 hours ago, TerryB said:

Adding longer runs of wire increases the resistance of the wire to the flow of current which is not a desirable thing.  The solution is to use larger diameter wire that will lower the resistance.  The extra resistance would be most critical in circuits that draw a lot of current like starters, non-led lighting, electric wiper motors and the like.  Having the battery in the back and the starter up front will require heavier than average 12v battery cables to compensate for the added length.

 

I agree with Terry.

 

 Contrary to what some say, Norman,  go for the 12V.  I did over 10 years ago.  M-mman is correct that the starter drive [ bendix]  will eventually give up.  Mine gave up after 6 or 7 years.  

The plusses outweigh the negative, in my opinion.   My Buick is is crowding 30,000 miles since the change.

 

  Ben

Edited April 13 by Ben Bruce aka First Born (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Big mistake.  Fix what is wrong with the original system.  We have 50 threads on the forum about this.

[Norman Biggs]

I've torn this old girl all the way down.  So wiring access will not be hard.  I'm going with a 12 v alternator, coil, all lights, ect. I'll have fuel gauge, heater and the horn I will need to step down.  

The battery move is what I need to decide now.

Thanks everyone 

[ABear]

6 minutes ago, Norman Biggs said:

I've torn this old girl all the way down.  So wiring access will not be hard.  I'm going with a 12 v alternator, coil, all lights, ect. I'll have fuel gauge, heater and the horn I will need to step down.  

The battery move is what I need to decide now.

Not sure if anyone modifies fuel gauges but with heater fan motor and horn, may as well change those out to 12V and be done with cobbling things back together.

 

The do make 12V to 6V "buck" converters for what you are planning to do..

 

This one is good for 25A (150W) which might cover the fan motor.

 

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Converter-Regulator-Waterproof-Transformer/dp/B01CUA4IR8/ref=sr_1_10?crid=1WPBY4QJS1HQ3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.-PrTZDS6uvX5Z27zMbCCGBzW2vMkmggpRA_xWHqi8cl_0q4OccATEa5pPclCbwxram0XRpDkcGwTVIzD9rr0_lAuVrv238a_lYw-a7_sTlbCXN6Y_CJ9erTwp4-MHwbvVOnCJkepXr1LcFWfRzoKdkuacQcrkW_LHLtar-rvA5AKfj2d5lbxM6vNj_bb56Dbml7uuIDgcW4oq1Yo4rCcn1YP024cPlwXXYBiwAH3fWQ.gA7DS4OV_dv2lmznI4Pi64Fpy_aA5YWYsdWpseCSt0Q&dib_tag=se&keywords=12V+to+6V+converter&qid=1713020577&sprefix=12v+to+6v+converter%2Caps%2C82&sr=8-10

 

The downside to using converters like that is added complexity and extra wiring involved..

[TerryB]

You beat me to it AB, yes the 12/6 converter needs to be able to handle the load so be careful to choose it based on your needed power draw. 

[dodge28]

The question is why do you still want to use the 6 volt starter to begin whit ? If it is the physical body make up of the starter to fit the vehicle then get the starter rewired to 12 volts instead of various kinds of gadgets  all over the place. Both  generator and starters can be re wired to suit any voltage. Even starter solenoids. 

[edinmass]

Interesting……..6 volts is no good, unreliable, and can’t be made to work. Except that hundreds of millions of car successfully drove billions of miles without issues. Carburetors, distributors, mechanical brakes, vacuum tanks…..none of them ever worked or were reliable. That’s why EVERY single car with six volts sits on the side of the road broken down or not starting when hot. Just like yesterday, where I drove a V-16 Cadillac 150 miles and carried absolutely no tools. Car started hot ten times on 6 volts. Vacuum tanks worked fine, as did the dual point distributor. Fact is 6 volt cars operate well…..if they are serviced and maintained properly. Go to twelve volts…..may as well dump in a 350 Chevy, automatic transmission, hydraulic brakes, radial tires, where does it end? It’s your car and it certainly is yours to do with as you wish. Try and sell a stock car with a 12 volt conversation……80 percent of the buyers will blow past it without looking. Certainly looks like a good project, and being done all the way…….so why not keep it stock. It’s easier, cheaper, and certainly more reliable. Whatever your choice, good luck with the project.

[Grimy]

Additionally, if you "upgrade" (a misnomer in my mind) ANYthing, make a binder with all the new part numbers for the next owner, or for yourself if you keep it long enough to need component replacement.  Example:  Against my strong recommendation, a neighbor bought an early 1950s Chevy pickup that had been substantially modified (engine, trans, etc) and has not been able to drive it for 2 years due to lack of documentation of "upgraded" parts--AND total wiring screwups. 

[edinmass]

Grimy is spot on…….we spent countless hours fixing a 80’s CJ-8 that was converted to throttle body injection. Just figuring out what distributor cap was a challenge. They used mixed electronic components from two different displacement engines. The thing never actually ran correctly…….till we spent 80 hours figuring it out. Do the math on that bill. Thus the guys “great deal” on a shiny low milage Jeep turned into both a nightmare where at least ten shops refused to work on it, and the repair cost took the “good deal” into I overpaid for a messed up piece of junk territory.

Edited April 14 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Grimy]

More on my neighbor's predicament with a modified but undocumented (yes, I say that deliberately!) Chevy pickup:  A previous owner rewired the truck himself and left NO wiring diagram despite all the "mod-run" (my derisive pronunciation of "modern") goodies he added.  My friend cannot find anyone to take on that unscrew-the-bad-wiring challenge, because the truck would occupy otherwise-productive business space for a long time, and only on a time & materials basis of course.  The sad thing is that my friend sold his nice-driver Austin-Healey roadster because of his age and physical condition and wanted an easy-to-drive, modified vintage vehicle to replace it.  He's unable to work on his modified truck himself.

[BobinVirginia]

18 minutes ago, Grimy said:

More on my neighbor's predicament with a modified but undocumented (yes, I say that deliberately!) Chevy pickup:  A previous owner rewired the truck himself and left NO wiring diagram despite all the "mod-run" (my derisive pronunciation of "modern") goodies he added.  My friend cannot find anyone to take on that unscrew-the-bad-wiring challenge, because the truck would occupy otherwise-productive business space for a long time, and only on a time & materials basis of course.  The sad thing is that my friend sold his nice-driver Austin-Healey roadster because of his age and physical condition and wanted an easy-to-drive, modified vintage vehicle to replace it.  He's unable to work on his modified truck himself.

That’s terrible! I recently ran into an issue on my Dad’s 70 Chevelle where some boneheaded fool wired gauges and stereo stuff in and created not only a fire hazard but huge mess! Every wire that wasn’t original came out before any repairs needed could be ascertained. Good clean traceable and properly fused wiring makes a huge difference. 

[Norman Biggs]

Hello everyone 

Thanks for great information.  I believe I got all my questions answered and some didn't even know I needed to ask.  Out all the response there is one that made me think about relocating the battery and fuse box to the trunk.  

[TerryB]

You have a big project there!  Good luck going forward with your car.  

[ABear]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

Interesting……..6 volts is no good, unreliable, and can’t be made to work.

The issue is more often than not of "compatibility" to modern standards, not that 6V doesn't work, 6V isn't directly compatible with cell phone chargers, computer/laptop, tablet, portable air compressors and even basic car lighting and even the 6V starting batteries available in stores (not everyone has a Tractor Supply store near them).

 

Folks like to be able to be able to bring new tech with them, new tech simply does not directly support 6V input, but does accept 12V. So, one has to buy converters to convert 6V to 12V, which adds extra cost and extra points of failure.

 

You can't go into a retail store and buy 6V light bulbs, not even auto parts stores carry 6V bulbs, haven't seen those on store shelves since before the 1970's. Nope those have to be mail ordered.

 

Need new battery cables? Yep, can't buy from retail stores battery cables already made up in a heavy enough wire gauge. Nope, those have to be special ordered.

 

How about a 6V wiper motor, heater motor, horn.. Nope, no longer sold in stores, have to find a specialty online store and absolutely hope the stars are in alignment that there is on NOS or reproduction one in stock.

 

Finding a "mechanic" or "technician" that has the knowledge and willingness to work on 6V systems is non existent now days and when you find one they will cost you your first born in the first hr of troubleshooting.

 

Most likely the biggest issue with 6V is everything draws much. much more current over 12V, basically means the wiring must also be substantially heavier than 12V, your switches must be more robust to handle the current draw, wiring must be considerably shorter to limit the higher voltage drop over long wire runs.

 

Now at this point you are thinking that I am against 6V, you would be dead wrong. It is the opposite, If it was originally equipped for 6V, I would recommend staying with 6V IF the wiring is good, IF the switches are good, IF the lighting is good, IF the starter and generator is good..

 

In the case of the OP, they are starting out with a clean slate, they have a wiring harness that is trash and not reusable and having a new custom 6V wiring harness made will cost a fortune now days.. If you haven't checked the price of copper wire now days, you might want to be sitting down and tie your hat down to your head.. Yeah, you would need to take out a mortgage to buy the heavier wire for 6V use.. Staying with 6V might cost the OP more than what the vehicle is worth alone.

 

I myself wouldn't hesitate to build a all new from scratch wiring harness for 6V if it was my project to save labor costs, but not everyone has that skill set, so many folks have to sub out that part and the labor costs will really beat you up. In some cases, you can buy a premade generic 12V harness, convert everything over and be far, far ahead on the overall cost.

 

So, while I would recommend staying 6V for originality sake, sometimes exceptions must be made to the rule that makes the owner as happy as possible with what ever the budget constraints are..

 

I wouldn't cal 12V a "upgrade", its more like "modernizing" to be a bit more "compatible" with today's standards.

 

 

[Norman Biggs]

Thanks Terry.   I'm really not changing anything but the electrical.  The 223 straight 6 , rear end and front end are rebuilt ready to in install.  Just finished clean up and paint on the chassis.  I put a fall deadline to complete chassis and drive train. 

Edited April 14 by Norman Biggs
Spelling dahhhh (see edit history)

[Tonz]

I was told by my now retired, but very very experienced auto electrician that 6 volt starter will handle the 12 volts ok, remember 6 volt components are built strong to handle twice the amps of a 12 volts.

The problem is the Bendix gets smashed too hard. The work around is to reduce the mass of the centrifugal bob weight that spins the Bendix out by about half.

This slows the bendix action to a more acceptable amount.

[human-potato_hybrid]

No problem to give a 6V starter 12 volts if your car starts on a dime.

 

If your car is a "crank-crank-crank-pump-pump-crank-crank-pump-pump-crank" to start affair, that will probably damage the starter and you may as well find a 12V starter now.

[human-potato_hybrid]

54 minutes ago, Tonz said:

remember 6 volt components are built strong to handle twice the amps of a 12 volts.

That's not how it works. 6V components are designed to have 1/4 the impedance of an equivalent 12V component. For example, 6 ohms on a 6V system will be 1 amp and hence 6 watts. Whereas 24 ohms on a 12V system will be 1/2 amp to get the same 6 watts. So giving 6V components 12V will cause their power output to be 4x higher, quickly damaging the component.

 

The only reason it's sort of okay to use 6V starters with 12V is because the starters already draw pretty much the maximum load from the battery, and 6V batteries have a higher peak current than 12V. So hooked up to 12V, the actual current may not be that much out of spec, though the voltage on the brushes and commutator definitely will be, and will cause excessive wear.

Edited Saturday at 12:07 PM by human-potato_hybrid (see edit history)

[PFitz]

Converting 6-12 volts is just "kicking the can down the road". You don't get rid of the problems; you just change when they will be problems. 

 

And they are right about "conversions" affecting the resale value. I get asked to advise on a cars for sale.  When I see the shade tree mechanic's advice to do electrical conversions, I have to wonder what else was not done right. And there are always more screw ups waiting for a new owner to get stuck with. 

 

Ed's 80 hours to fix a supposedly "fixed" car is often on the low end of what it takes to correct and make it a safe and reliable car after novice restorers through they were making it better.  

 

Paul

[Rusty_OToole]

On 4/12/2024 at 12:25 PM, Norman Biggs said:

I'm plan to up grade my system to 12 volt.   This is a 2 part question.  First in reference to the subject.  I not clear if a 6v starter work on a 12v system, can it be converted or does it matter?  I planned on using voltage reducers for my Heater and Horns.  Second question, I thought I'd move the battery and fuse panel to the trunk.  Not being an expert will have any trouble with the long lengths of wire?

To answer the original question. A 6v starter will work on 12v, for a while. Don't expect it to last very long if it does you are lucky. When they went to 12v they changed the field coils in the starter, and changed the gear teeth on the flywheel and starter drive to a finer tooth. They made these changes for a reason. You can too, by changing the flywheel or ring gear and starter.

 

You can use a voltage reducer or just take a center tap off the battery. Not being an expert, you very well may.

 

I agree with those who say the easy way is to keep it 6v and make it right. Good luck.

[ABear]

1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

To answer the original question. A 6v starter will work on 12v, for a while. Don't expect it to last very long if it does you are lucky.

I guess my Dad and Uncle were extremely "lucky" then..

 

Back story, my Uncle built an oil well "pulling and drilling" machine back in the late 1950's early 1960's for my Grand Dad's oil well.. The machine was used to pull the rods and tubing as needed.

 

Uncle used a 1948 Ford Flat head engine to power the machine, used 12V battery to start and run the machine.. My Dad was still using the machine up till he sold the well and that was around 1990..

 

The kicker, it was the original 6V starter as far as I am aware of, don't ever recall Dad ever needing to work on that engine other than to have my brother weld up a new exhaust manifold as the old one had rotted out..

 

Engine turned over quickly and started, never needed to keep on the starter more than a second or two. As a caveat, the 6V generator was disconnected and the ignition coil was changed to a 12V version.

 

Not saying it is a good idea, but I suspect most who say it will destroy the starter or severely reduce the life have never tried it.

 

Generally though, I am in the camp of if you have a complete vehicle with complete and good wiring leave it as 6V.

 

HOWEVER, this is not the case with the OPs project, they do not have a good 6V wiring harness per their posts. To stay with 6V, they will have to custom fabricate a new 6V harness which has much heavier wire gauge than if they just buy a generic 12V harness..  My thoughts are, if they WANT a 12V, then go for it, this IS the time to make that change as generic premade harness will be less work and much cheaper than buying substantially higher cost heavier wire required for 6V.

 

Can they use the 6V starter? YES.

 

Will a 6V starter used with 12V live long? Unknown, but they have it right now so may as well use it, starters do fail even when run on the voltage they were designed for.

[Rusty_OToole]

1 hour ago, ABear said:

Not saying it is a good idea, but I suspect most who say it will destroy the starter or severely reduce the life have never tried it.

The people who say it is not a good idea are the factories that made the cars. When they changed from 6 to 12 volts, all changed to a finer tooth ring and pinion gear and different field coils. I'm not an engineer but suspect they did so for a reason. I know a 6 volt starter will work on 12 volts, I have done it, but how long is an open question.

[nat]

On 4/12/2024 at 12:25 PM, Norman Biggs said:

I not clear if a 6v starter work on a 12v system, can it be converted or does it matter?

     While a 6V starter will engage with a BANG when run on 12V, my experience has been that they work fine and have an acceptable service life.  The only difference between some 12V and 24V Detroit Diesel starters is the composition of the brushes.

     Beyond that and in my experience, the only two valid reasons for changing voltage I have found are, 1:  When boats that were built with 6V systems needed radios, sounders and radars that were only available in 12V.  And 2:  adding a series/parallel switch to an old worn out diesel so it would wag over fast enough to start in cold weather.

     A gasoline engine will start at almost any temperature if it has fuel, compression and spark.  If it won't, fix it.

     Many adequate batteries have been, (repeatedly), replaced because of slow cranking when the real problem is/was worn starter bushings.

     Rebuild your starter and battery box.  Stick with 6V and you'll have no surprises.

    I pay $80 per year for AAA insurance which, (among other things), allows me four 100 mile tows per membership year.  I've never had to use it but it gives me courage to go out and about in my 24'.

Nat

Edited Saturday at 11:30 PM by nat
. (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

10 hours ago, PFitz said:

Converting 6-12 volts is just "kicking the can down the road". You don't get rid of the problems; you just change when they will be problems. 

 

And they are right about "conversions" affecting the resale value. I get asked to advise on a cars for sale.  When I see the shade tree mechanic's advice to do electrical conversions, I have to wonder what else was not done right. And there are always more screw ups waiting for a new owner to get stuck with. 

 

Ed's 80 hours to fix a supposedly "fixed" car is often on the low end of what it takes to correct and make it a safe and reliable car after novice restorers through they were making it better.  

 

Paul

 

👎

 

  Ben

[edinmass]

Lots of people hire me to inspect cars for purchase…..more than you can imagine. If any car I was hired to look at had a six to twelve volt changeover……….I would refuse the job. Simply put……..no serious collector would ever do it. I ended up looking at a two million dollar car a few years ago…….basically a “done deal” where it had been converted to 12 volts to add an electric fan and spin it faster when hot. I recommend he NOT buy the car at any price. People don’t listen, and I ended up converting it back, fixing the overheating issue, and sorting the car……..the bill? 50k. And it was “100 points” and had made the show circuit including Pebble and Amelia. 

[ABear]

25 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Lots of people hire me to inspect cars for purchase…..more than you can imagine. If any car I was hired to look at had a six to twelve volt changeover……….I would refuse the job. Simply put……..no serious collector would ever do it.

Depends on the "audience", for every "serious collector" there is most likely tens of thousands of not so serious folks who are looking more for a street driver. These are the folks who don't have six figures of pocket lint money hanging around.

 

Different "audiences", different budgets, different needs..

 

I think there is "room" for all in the hobby and sometimes to make that room available sometimes we must get off our high horses and mull around with the broke smucks on the streets..

 

Do I like unwinding the "crazy cooter backyard" wiring mess? NOPE.

 

Have one in my garage right now that someone cut out the old fuse box, wired in a generic aftermarket fuse box, taped two of those together back to back and left other wires disconnected and the generic fuse box dangling.. Not looking forward to fixing that rats nest.. Now I have to basically gut the wiring harness out of a donor car and replace the mess someone else did..

 

Like I have said, leave it original 6V would be my choice, but why beat the dead horse more since the OP already said their wiring harness is shot.. Having a new one off custom 6V harness made is going to cost more than the car is worth rendering the project no longer viable..  But I guess that is what the car community here wants.

 

The generic 12V wiring harnesses are designed for less current than what 6V requires so your accessories and lighting will not get full 6V and you run the risk of overloading the wires if you fuse to the 6V requirements..

[Matt Harwood]

Funny this should come up. We just had a big Full Classic come into our shop that has a 12V "upgrade." All-new wiring harness with a distribution block under the seat, all very professional looking. But when we got up close, we found that a lot of stuff didn't work. Gauges were wonky, only one headlight, only one taillight, brake lights stuck on. Work had been done by two different "experts" to make it work and the owner was proud of the job. The minute the thing came off the trailer and I saw the brake lights burning away, I knew it was going to be a headache. 

 

So we started taking it apart. Here's some of what we found:

 

 

 

Wires changing color mid-stream, Pep Boys connectors, dangling wires not connected to anything, a whole bunch of issues. And the icing on the cake? When we got to the headlights, we found this:

 

 

Yep, the headlight bulb is glued in there with some kind of caulk.

 

I pointed all this out to the owner and he was understandably upset. He's taking it back to the most recent wiring guy to give him another try, so we'll see what he comes up with. I have a great electrical shop that will sort it out, but it will come at a price that will probably shock the seller. This is what happens when guys try to reinvent the wheel. In essence, they believe--as many do--that the 6V stuff is unreliable and that we're smarter now so it will work better with modern stuff. Funny how a 6V bulb would have snapped right into that headlight there.

 

I've found that mechanics who don't understand how things work are always the first ones to say that stuff doesn't work and try to change it into something they do understand. Carburetors are confusing, so bolt on some kind of fuel-injection-in-a-box. Points and condensers are black magic so you throw an electronic ignition in there. It all works better, right?

Right?

[edinmass]

Matt……..you hit it right on the head……..my guy is the “best” and knows what he is doing. I can’t use the adjectives of my choice here……..or Peter will suspend me and give me more bad boy points. 

 

The 34 Buick lost a headlight last week………opened it up to replace the bulb, and naturally it was bad wiring. So I rebuilt the socket and had all the supplies I needed on hand. Making the new cork seal was the worst part of the job. Maybe I should have used blue silicone?
 

 

Edited Sunday at 02:05 AM by edinmass (see edit history)

[gungeey]

42 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Funny this should come up. We just had a big Full Classic come into our shop that has a 12V "upgrade." All-new wiring harness with a distribution block under the seat, all very professional looking. But when we got up close, we found that a lot of stuff didn't work. Gauges were wonky, only one headlight, only one taillight, brake lights stuck on. Work had been done by two different "experts" to make it work and the owner was proud of the job. The minute the thing came off the trailer and I saw the brake lights burning away, I knew it was going to be a headache. 

 

So we started taking it apart. Here's some of what we found:

 

 

 

Wires changing color mid-stream, Pep Boys connectors, dangling wires not connected to anything, a whole bunch of issues. And the icing on the cake? When we got to the headlights, we found this:

 

 

Yep, the headlight bulb is glued in there with some kind of caulk.

 

I pointed all this out to the owner and he was understandably upset. He's taking it back to the most recent wiring guy to give him another try, so we'll see what he comes up with. I have a great electrical shop that will sort it out, but it will come at a price that will probably shock the seller. This is what happens when guys try to reinvent the wheel. In essence, they believe--as many do--that the 6V stuff is unreliable and that we're smarter now so it will work better with modern stuff. Funny how a 6V bulb would have snapped right into that headlight there.

 

I've found that mechanics who don't understand how things work are always the first ones to say that stuff doesn't work and try to change it into something they do understand. Carburetors are confusing, so bolt on some kind of fuel-injection-in-a-box. Points and condensers are black magic so you throw an electronic ignition in there. It all works better, right?

Right?

What Full Classic has a serpentine belt with an idle pulley like in that 1st picture? 

[Century Eight]

I’ve always thought if you maintain a piece of equipment reasonably close to the day it left the factory, it should perform very well.   My low milage ‘50 Buick was getting to the point it was running like crap.  It took awhile, but we rebuilt the carb, gave it a complete tune-up with new points ,plugs, condenser, plug wires, etc and now it almost flips over backwards when you turn the key and hit the floor starter.  It also has new drum brakes and stops well.

 

It’s cheaper and just as well to maintain it to factory specs rather than re-inventing the wheel.  I just have to remember its an old car.  Come to think of it, that’s why I have it in the first place.

[BobinVirginia]

9 hours ago, edinmass said:

Matt……..you hit it right on the head……..my guy is the “best” and knows what he is doing. I can’t use the adjectives of my choice here……..or Peter will suspend me and give me more bad boy points. 

 

The 34 Buick lost a headlight last week………opened it up to replace the bulb, and naturally it was bad wiring. So I rebuilt the socket and had all the supplies I needed on hand. Making the new cork seal was the worst part of the job. Maybe I should have used blue silicone?
 

 

Hey, Yoda. I need to talk with you about where to get these supplies. 

Edited Sunday at 11:26 AM by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[BobinVirginia]

10 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Funny this should come up. We just had a big Full Classic come into our shop that has a 12V "upgrade." All-new wiring harness with a distribution block under the seat, all very professional looking. But when we got up close, we found that a lot of stuff didn't work. Gauges were wonky, only one headlight, only one taillight, brake lights stuck on. Work had been done by two different "experts" to make it work and the owner was proud of the job. The minute the thing came off the trailer and I saw the brake lights burning away, I knew it was going to be a headache. 

 

So we started taking it apart. Here's some of what we found:

 

 

 

Wires changing color mid-stream, Pep Boys connectors, dangling wires not connected to anything, a whole bunch of issues. And the icing on the cake? When we got to the headlights, we found this:

 

 

Yep, the headlight bulb is glued in there with some kind of caulk.

 

I pointed all this out to the owner and he was understandably upset. He's taking it back to the most recent wiring guy to give him another try, so we'll see what he comes up with. I have a great electrical shop that will sort it out, but it will come at a price that will probably shock the seller. This is what happens when guys try to reinvent the wheel. In essence, they believe--as many do--that the 6V stuff is unreliable and that we're smarter now so it will work better with modern stuff. Funny how a 6V bulb would have snapped right into that headlight there.

 

I've found that mechanics who don't understand how things work are always the first ones to say that stuff doesn't work and try to change it into something they do understand. Carburetors are confusing, so bolt on some kind of fuel-injection-in-a-box. Points and condensers are black magic so you throw an electronic ignition in there. It all works better, right?

Right?

Perhaps they were afraid to use Gorilla glue on the headlight? Does the gorilla really run into the shop when you need glue? 
 

We once had a ceremony with a voodoo witch doctor and a live chicken in the garage to fix an ignition system. Turns out all that was really needed was a manual and dwell meter! Who knew? Lol

 

Scary what people think passes for a “pro” nowadays 

Edited Sunday at 12:38 PM by BobinVirginia (see edit history)