Repair, reanimate or restore?

[Jack Bennett]

So, the 1929 Fargo Express panel is the fifth vehicle, sixth, if you include my 1947 Ford 8N tractor, I have, perhaps a bit insanely elected to adopt.

Each successive project reeks of the steps one takes in progression of life…..rather, the progression of one’s trip from infant to elderly.

My first project, a 1927 Willys Knight was my introduction to wooden spokes wheels and a transmission with three super low gears, and one super high gear, and the probability there will be some grinding and gnashing between them.

This car was my token “old car”, and as such, was hastily, but tastefully done with every intention to make it look, and drive like a new one.

Next came the 1923 Dodge roadster, and attention to detail was of utmost importance in selection of the floor coverings (only battle ship gray) and the thing (motometer with DB badge) which topped the orange hosed radiator could not be compromised.

Then came the 1995 F-250, with the wrecked body and lame engine which hemorrhaged oil through the leaking rear main.

I’ll add the 1951 Plymouth Cambridge here simply because it was a needy car, and I believed I could nurse it back to some state of self mobility. This was done…..so……onward.

Now it is the 1929 Fargo express panel.

This truck was doubtful even before I finally bought it.

To add insult to injury, a forum members comment to my first photos of the truck, as I trailered it home, was “I should have taken measures to secure the debris, which probably fell from the truck during transport, which could have injured or killed someone had it struck them”. 
That said, I totally agree that the truck is a hobbyists gold mine only if the probability of having a entire lifetime of something to do, in a single project, adds value to buying the truck as a hobby project.

Now, to the topic at hand……..The Willys brought stars to my eyes and a quiver to my butt (as I envisioned all the twilight drives along peaceful coastal roads).

The Dodge caused me to explore rooms in my cobweb cluttered brain, and I became acutely aware that the little four cylinder engine block, which I was furnished with the car, was NOT a “Fast Four”, and the Willys was not a “touring”.

The Dodge runs good, is “fun” to drive, but the antique nature of the steering and location of the gear shift lever constantly reminds me that I am north of seventy five years old, and those who loved to drive this car surely did not celebrate having a shoulder replaced on one arm and a badly torn rotator cuff on the other.

I had visions of talking the Willys and the Dodge to some of the nice State Parks Washington hosts, and drive them in a environment free of BMW’s, Audie’s and Mustang’s, which know nothing of speeds between dead stall and 90 miles per hour.

Considering this, I bought the 1995 Ford F-250 and a 18’ car trailer to haul them on.

The pickup is also a classic, so returning it to a ambulatory and fairly dependable state of REPAIR was in keeping with the hobby.

I was Chairman of the committee responsible for the (non-paid, totally voluntary) maintenance of the Historical Steilacoom Masonic Cemetery, for a number of years.

I surrendered the job of Chairman to a younger, and much more aggressive Lodge Brother, but my desire to remain involved in the maintenance of the cemetery continued.

This, the 1947 Ford 8N tractor and her 1941 Massey Ferguson brush hog.

Someplace in the buying, and fixing, of all this old stuff, I noticed that the only commonality of my victims was their  advanced age.

And, rather than the sense of pride I had expected to experience when I managed to get a 100 year old engine started, or a 94 year old clutch to engage, and the transmission effortlessly glide between gears, I experienced a feeling of despair in that there is always something I could have done better.

I see machines on this forum, the DB forum, the Fargo owners forum, Hagerty’s Drivers Club magazine, and every other form of media which features the hobby of antique car collection and “restoration”, and I actually feel that I am guilty of vehicular assault in my dealings with my machines.

Very probably, had I possessed the level of knowledge I have acquired since buying my first old car project, that I possessed before buying the Willys, I would have became a Habitat for Humanity volunteer rather than a old car fan.

My journey through the rotted wood, rusted metal, frayed wires, broken glass, flat tires, and mountain of other things I have encountered as a antique car hobbyist has left me fraught with questions regarding the “why” of it all.

I wonder where the idea of acquiring a vehicle, with no intention to ever use it for daily transport tasks, moves from being a device procured to serve the same purpose as a golf club or a fishing pole, to a device which fills every niche normally described as being a obsession. And the initial goal of having a benign hobby, usually involving skills which are both physically and tactically fulfilling, evolves from making “repairs” to a “mild restoration” to a full blown “come on into my garage and I’ll show you my exotically painted, and exquisitely chromed, brass cajonie’s”.

As I look at my poor, neglected, and long dead Fargo, I feel the urge to say “Go next door and see his Harley. Then come back and I’ll show you my old Cushman”.

 

 

 

 

[Joe Cocuzza]

ALAS......

 

There is NEVER any rhyme nor reason/sanity why we, (car hobbyists), do what we do !!!!!!!!!

[zepher]

1 hour ago, Jack Bennett said:

I wonder where the idea of acquiring a vehicle, with no intention to ever use it for daily transport tasks, moves from being a device procured to serve the same purpose as a golf club or a fishing pole, to a device which fills every niche normally described as being a obsession.

The major difference between antique automobiles and golf clubs is with autos you are restoring and preserving history.  The same can't be said of golf clubs.

On top of that, there are plenty of people that love and do drive old cars, how many people want to play a round of golf with 50 to 100 year old clubs?

[CChinn]

19 minutes ago, zepher said:

The major difference between antique automobiles and golf clubs is with autos you are restoring and preserving history.  The same can't be said of golf clubs.

On top of that, there are plenty of people that love and do drive old cars, how many people want to play a round of golf with 50 to 100 year old clubs?

Actually, there is the Society of Hickory Golfers and the Hickory Golf Association. Both are global in nature and seek to preserve hickory golf clubs, their history and the use of these clubs in tournaments. Very similar to the goals and objectives of AACA and other marque specific clubs. I’ve collected and played with hickory clubs which has been an enjoyable experience and much different than playing with modern clubs and balls. The pace is slower, you enjoy the scenery more and you appreciate the nuances and skill of playing with these old clubs. Much like the enjoyment when I drive one of my old cars. 

[CChinn]

In addition, we don’t have the monopoly on the preservation of old mechanical things. I also collect old clocks and watches. NAWCC is their AACA equivalent in the US and the oldest clocks from Europe predates the automobile by several centuries. I’m sure there are several other hobbies similar to ours with equally enthusiastic members. I’m just glad to be able to enjoy old cars, watches/clocks and golf!

[TAKerry]

1 hour ago, CChinn said:

Actually, there is the Society of Hickory Golfers and the Hickory Golf Association. Both are global in nature and seek to preserve hickory golf clubs, their history and the use of these clubs in tournaments. Very similar to the goals and objectives of AACA and other marque specific clubs. I’ve collected and played with hickory clubs which has been an enjoyable experience and much different than playing with modern clubs and balls. The pace is slower, you enjoy the scenery more and you appreciate the nuances and skill of playing with these old clubs. Much like the enjoyment when I drive one of my old cars. 

I use modern clubs, the pace is plenty slow and I can enjoy the scenery, LOL. I dont think your group would notice me!

[JRA]

An important museum of antique cars in Brazil was called Mechanical Antiques Museum, back in 1963. I have always enjoyed this name! It describes very well my personal passion of history and machines, I believe this is the joy I have in the hobby, as many here. It is a great pleasure to connect history, preservation and mechanical artifacts. Old automobiles, clocks, watches, trains, agricultural equipments, engines, airplanes, tractors, sewing machines, tools,… the list is endless, as probably the clubs for such enthusiasts.

[Terry Bond]

You have my sympathy.

Terry

[JV Puleo]

What about the folks that collect and use antique machine tools? We have several right on this forum and they are in much greater danger of disappearing into scrap than cars are...and they are every bit as important a relic of our industrial past as cars are.

[Bhigdog]

On 1/11/2024 at 4:54 PM, JRA said:

It is a great pleasure to connect history, preservation and mechanical artifacts. Old automobiles, clocks, watches, trains, agricultural equipment, engines, airplanes, tractors, sewing machines, tools,… the list is endless, as probably the clubs for such enthusiasts.

Besides cars, for a long while I was interested in and collected old electro-mechanical pin ball machines, I had over 80 of them. Then anvils, forges, tongs and black smithing . I moved onto old monitor top refrigerators. Then old compressors. Now for some inexplicable reason I'm enthralled with old battery chargers. I just picked up a machine built by the Franklin transformer Co. with an inspector's initials dated 3-12-43.

Luckily I'm easily bored and keep moving on.

BTW, If anyone has any info on the Franklin transformer Co. chargers let me know. They did business as Speedway battery chargers..........Bob

Edited January 13 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

Next to only fashion, cars are a form of personal expression. Owning and driving vintage cars in any form is a way to express one’s style, character and personality. Fun driving vintage cars daily.

[wayne sheldon]

A truth of life is that one cannot truly appreciate much of anything, especially modern conveniences, if one does not truly understand how life was like before the development of said modern convenience. 

Fools are not interested in history!

 

I have always been fascinated by history, all the things that brought mankind to the place we were forty years ago. I was helping my dad by the time I was five, holding the acetylene torch while he pounded on whatever he was trying to make or fix. I was changing flat tires on his work truck by the time I was eight (he would double check that I got the lugs tight enough). In the sixth grade I moved up to a larger bicycle, which I bought second hand using my allowance, and then rebuilt and repainted it mostly myself!

Over the years, I have repaired or restored very old radios, wind-up phonographs, cameras, shop tools and equipment, the list goes on and on. I like working with my mind and my hands.

For quite a few years, when I was much younger, I collected coins and other types of money. I always enjoyed the connection to history they gave me. Foreign money, coins or paper, rarely has much value, except for that connection to history again. I always liked that, and still have most of what I had collected. American coins were worth more, most of those I wound up selling forty years ago to pay the kid's hospital bills. But I kept a few things.

When I say I was after the connections to history? I mean it. Some of the old coins I still have include "state" coins, a few minted by states before 1776. I also have a Fugio cent, the first coin officially minted by the new United States of America! My Fugio cent is in poor condition, as even sixty years ago, nice ones were expensive! I could not afford a nice one, but wanted the connection to history. I also have a genuine three dollar bill Banknote! It predates the United States printing paper money. I like the connection to history.

To this day, often, some little occurrence getting change in a local store and I will regale the clerk with a two minute tale of monetary history. Just a week ago I told a clerk about my three dollar bill.

 

Pardon me if I sound like I am tooting my own horn here? But this statement applies to MOST of the people on this forum! Intelligent people like their connections to history.

Human beings are flawed. They cannot see into the future. The only way to get a glimpse of the future is to look closely at the past, and see the reflections. One cannot care about the future if one does not care about the past. That is a fact.

Edited January 12 by wayne sheldon
I hate leaving typos! (see edit history)

[CChinn]

Wayne, maybe Boeing should have hired you to tighten the bolts on the 737-max 9 plug doors😂

[wayne sheldon]

10 minutes ago, CChinn said:

Wayne, maybe Boeing should have hired you to tighten the bolts on the 737-max 9 plug doors😂

 

That is sure a bad situation. From the initial reports I have heard, this "issue" could destroy Boeing. However, I never believe in placing too much value on initial reports. Any sort of investigation MUST be allowed time to make accurate or honest evaluations!

[CChinn]

Wayne, agree completely. Although no one died or was injured, perhaps best not to make light of the situation 

[Jack Bennett]

6 hours ago, CChinn said:

Actually, there is the Society of Hickory Golfers and the Hickory Golf Association. Both are global in nature and seek to preserve hickory golf clubs, their history and the use of these clubs in tournaments. Very similar to the goals and objectives of AACA and other marque specific clubs. I’ve collected and played with hickory clubs which has been an enjoyable experience and much different than playing with modern clubs and balls. The pace is slower, you enjoy the scenery more and you appreciate the nuances and skill of playing with these old clubs. Much like the enjoyment when I drive one of my old cars. 

I suppose I should have used boating or scuba diving, rather than golf clubs as a hobby choice. Regardless though, there would still be argument that knocking a tiny ball around a expansive course, and feeling exhilarated beyond belief when it falls into the tiny hole is not comparable to same sort of exhilaration a guy who drives his/her antique car the very first time.

At the summit of my long climb up this wordy mountain is the question……ANY HOBBY….may it be golf, tennis or bare back riding, is some activity we set aside as a refuge to escape into as a way of relieving the pressures and stress of a vocation.
So, at what point does a person who ELECTS to acquire a item, specifically intended as the focus of a hobby, let the item become a obsession, rather than a possession, and consequently, pins his/her very existence to being identified as a possession of the item, rather than vice-versa.

The crux of my post was the level of disappointment, and I did say “disappointment”, and not achievement or elation I feel when I look out the window, see my poor, and decrepit Fargo Panel, knowing that I have a few choices to make within the coming minutes.

I am single, have no debt, very few bills and have enough money and holdings that I could simply call a restoration shop, and within a short time, be owned by a 1929 Fargo Panel truck that “I  saved”  and accordingly, preserved a part of history which had previously sat, ignored and rat eaten, in a garage for over 50 years.

Or, I since I value the opportunity to be physically, mentally and financially able to participate in a hobby which affords me the aforementioned escape, I can welcome the privilege of getting off my butt and repair the damage to the truck to the extent it can again function, with some level of safety and dependability.

Or, I can obsess about what I SHOULD do to RESTORE the truck to a condition which put a strain on my health, causes a drain to my budget, and may possibly cause irreversible damage to my personal, professional, and family life.

The consequence of allowing the third choice to impose itself on my life is only apparent when it becomes impossible to ignore the number of “restoration” projects being advertised for sale due to poor health, lack of space, or some other catastrophe which developed over the 15 or 20 years the project has sat abandoned and ignored, in a dark corner of the garage (barn), waiting for the next savior to look beyond the rotted wooden blocks supporting the vehicle.

Unlike the guy I was who undertook the project of returning the Willys to a drivable condition, or resurrecting the Dodge to be the show car Vernon had in mind when he died, or even the Plymouth, which was a cross over between the rude behavior of the Willys or the erratic handling of the Dodge, I looked at the Fargo as a HOBBY in which I could enjoy looking at as well as selecting whether I repaired the engine, banged on sheet metal, cut wood or sanded wheels. Now I look at the truck as a hopeless mess, well beyond my abilities or interest to RESTORE it to a condition better than when it rolled off the assembly line.

I DO NOT……..EVER……intend on driving the truck for any purpose other than recreation. I have no intention of returning it to service delivering produce or eggs, and I most certainly never intended it to be a show car with people slobbering over the chrome and insanely babbling about its historical value.

Simply put, my old machines are my hobby and do enjoy driving them, not as a self gratifying way of extracting repayment for my “saving” them, but a a means of getting someplace, where my only concern is getting back to where a I started, and having some fun in the process.

And, a huge part of this is my knowing exactly what each clevis and pin in the mechanical brake system does when I need it to stop the car. That pretty well sums up my feelings when I hear someone bragging about how “original” their car is while, in actuality, they have never changed a tire on it.

 

[mrspeedyt]

hobby choice? I should have stuck with collecting stamps. (much lighter to haul around.) instead of collecting everything else.

 

hobby car choice? I should have limited myself to the 56 Pontiac Safari that I had in high school. focus on that one. kept that one. instead of being like a butterfly going from car to car to car.

Edited January 12 by mrspeedyt (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Jack, I look forward to your dissertations. Would that I could express myself so well.

 

  Sure would like to be there for the FIRST DRIVE AROUND THE BLOCK!😂

 

  Ben

[Jack Bennett]

44 minutes ago, mrspeedyt said:

hobby choice? I should have stuck with collecting stamps. (much lighter to haul around.) instead of collecting everything else.

 

hobby car choice? I should have limited myself to the 56 Pontiac Safari that I had in high school. focus on that one. kept that one. instead of being like a butterfly going from car to car to car.

And, as a sixteen year old virgin, I should have chose a different line of work as a soldier. Oh, now I remember….it was necessary that a country, such as the United States is, to maintain a fighting force able to assure its citizens to exercise the choice of hobby they choose, or the object of their affections after they do make the choice.

I speak a couple of languages foreign to this country, but they too have a limited number of words which may be used to express a opinion.

Play golf, fly airplanes, scuba dive or drive a race car but do it as a EXCEPTION as to what you do as a lively hood.

You could have stuck with collecting stamps, and could have designed a new way of printing stamps or became a world famous stamp collector.

But YOU made the choice to move on from stamp collecting and YOU made the choice of not keeping your 56 Pontiac. 
But had you decided to collect stamps, or had decided to keep your 56 Pontiac, my opinion would be the same, and that is that you need to differentiate what you do for recreation and relaxation and what you must do to survive in a vocational world.

It may shock you to know that a honey bee is one of the most industrious, and undeniably plays one of the most important roles in the survival of the human species than any other creature on earth.

And it does need to flit from flower to flower to justify its existence, but it must also know the difference between a Venus Flytrap and a Petunia.

Edited January 12 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

49 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Jack, I look forward to your dissertations. Would that I could express myself so well.

 

  Sure would like to be there for the FIRST DRIVE AROUND THE BLOCK!😂

 

  Ben

It has been a long and tedious trip thus far Ben.

Were my wife here to share my appreciation of little things, which were so unimportant and insignificant when she was with me, it would round the sharpened, square edges of everything which could bother me.

My dog and I spent a few chilly hours in the park, and then I done something so out of character it even surprised me.

It stays right at the freezing mark outside now, and it rains continually from sunrise through sunset. That really limits the amount of time I can (sensibly) spend outside, and I tend to get lazy during the time I spend in my wood work shop. 
Besides, the Willys, the Dodge and the Plymouth really needs nothing, and it is absurd to race the clock to finish(?) a 94 year old truck.

So, I find myself spending way too much time on the internet, googling information on the old cars and typing stuff on the old car forums.

Today we went to O’Rellly’s with the sole intent of buying a gallon of stuff called “Evaporust”, which I read about on the AACA forum.

According to the YouTube video, this stuff is awesome at dissolving rust all the way back to the bare metal.

I have the 1951 Dodge flathead six cylinder engine installed in the Fargo panel, and had intended on using the evaporust on the engine mounts and the firewall in lieu of media blasting them.

I missed the part of the video which says it will work on things which can be totally immersed for 12 to 24 hours, and that instantly eliminated my frame and firewall as likely candidates.

Anyway, I was already cold and wet, and I had already poured a soup can of evaporust in preparation to apply it to the truck.

Having spent so much effort and time in the anticipated application of this product to my truck, I slathered it on the frame, engine, firewall, fenders and cowling……..and then I recalled what the instructions said.

Golly, gee….I had slathered nearly a half gallon of this rust eating product on a truck of which now contained less than .01% bare metal and at least 99.9% pure rust.

Well, tomorrow should be interesting, and I can only hope that I find a small portion of the truck left after the evaporation does its deed.

I will furnish a few photos even if there is nothing identifiable to photograph.

 

Edited January 12 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

I, too, enjoy your long philosophical ramblings. They are thought provoking, and evocative. While studying and learning everything I can about as many things as I can has been a way of life for me? Restoring antique automobiles truly is my hobby. I "think" I would have liked to make it my career, but it was not to be for me. Although one of my longest and best friends was like Ed Minnie here, and became a professional collection manager and consultant to several major collectors. He is now retired, but I got to see how making a living at one's hobby can often put a strain on actually enjoying the hobby.

Me? Life never treated me very well. Family needs always cost way too much (and much of that family frankly did not deserve my sacrifices for them!). Money was always tight, and way too many cars I restored or acquired and really wanted to keep and enjoy for the rest of my life had to be sold for those family needs. I cannot afford to do the quality of restoration that I would like, and usually cut a lot more corners than I care to admit to. Every collector car that has gone through my hands has left in better shape than it was in when I got it. I can be proud of that.

If I ever can get back to work on my "current" projects, the 1915 model T runabout will not be as nice as I would like for it to be. But I will be proud of it and enjoy the car anyplace I ever take it!

 

The working career I wound up in was a natural for me. My dad was a cable television pioneer, building some of the earliest systems in the 1950s! He fancied himself a businessman, and became a communications systems contractor when I was young. I had a bizarre natural understanding of RF (radio frequency) propagation and electromagnetic interference phenomenon. 

The juxtaposition of my hobby, and my career was interesting. Both of them had me meeting and getting to know truly wealthy people. (Not that that gave me any advantages financially?) The antique automobile hobbyist wealthy were very different from the others. I was fortunate to meet several major collectors that I seldom ever mention their names out of respect for their privacy. Most of them were very decent and down to Earth people! That regardless of how they earned their wealth, and most of them DID earn it! Other wealthy people I met through work? They tended to be arrogant, with feelings of entitlement, and greedy. 

We did quite a bit of information technologies early development work. I met several people that became wealthy through the internet one way or another. I spent much of two weeks in the home of one of the best known computer company founders. We were "fixing" the television distribution system in his multimillion dollar mansion. The arrogant SOB had his "expert" install the system, they did everything wrong from the start. And after spending most of two forty hour weeks replacing defective wiring his "experts" had installed, inside his beautiful walls without leaving a mark anywhere? He refused to pay the bill in full, saying he shouldn't have to pay US so much to replace what cost him a fraction to install before the walls were finished. The simple fact is it costs a lot more to fix idiot's mistakes than to do it right the first time.

A "big oil" corporation international attorney pulled the same stunt on us. Paid an electrician thousands of dollars to install television wiring in his $14,000,000 mansion (that was the actual cost of construction on land he had owned for years), in spite of the fact we had done distribution systems for him for many years in his real estate holdings. Television distribution is not the simple thing most people think it is. When they moved into the new home, and couldn't watch tv almost anywhere? Then he called us. The electrician had done everything wrong. Wrong design, wrong equipment, wrong materials, basically nothing worked. We had to figure out how to run correct materials in proper routings to reach every room, and it was a lot of rooms, on four floors! The construction managers kept assuring us that we would be paid in full for all our hard work and special care to not leave any marks where they did not belong. They kept telling us what various projects were costing, and that our little mess we were asked to fix would be nothing by comparison.

We had three people working on the project for over three weeks! And when we were done, the system worked everywhere just like it was supposed to! It was not a simple fix! When it became time for our bill to be paid? Same argument. Why should I pay you thirty thousand dollars to fix a system that I only paid seven thousand dollars to have installed in the first place? It is amazing how they couldn't understand that the cheap improperly done system didn't work? And it costs several times more money to install wiring in a wall after the walls are all finished than it does to install it before the siding is put on!

In the hobby, I have met many wealthy people, that I considered them to be intelligent and thoughtful. In my years as a communications systems contractor, I met quite a few wealthy people that I considered to be selfish wealthy idiots! I could tell a dozens other stories of greedy and stupid developers.

 

Jack B, Yes, I totally understand your feelings about keeping "work" and "hobby" separate.

Do what is best for you. In the grand scheme of things? Whether you finish restoring the Fargo truck or not won't make much difference. I get the feeling that you are a lot like I am. I find great pleasure in taking hundred year old automobile parts that other people have refused to use, and turning them into good usable pieces again. I have restored several model Ts over the years. More than half of them were from badly rusted remains that other people had rejected. Most of those cars I have really enjoyed the many miles I later put onto them before I had to sell them.

But that is me.

 

 

Edited January 12 by wayne sheldon
I hate leaving typos! (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

13 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Next to only fashion, cars are a form of personal expression. Owning and driving vintage cars in any form is a way to express one’s style, character and personality. Fun driving vintage cars daily.

I would not say only, there is architecture, art, writing, etc. etc.

[Xander Wildeisen]

True, but not as physically close as fashion. Cars are a form of art, stunning architecture found around world.

[60FlatTop]

15 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

Fools are not interested in history!

 

The practical application of that is in in the meeting room where a group has been brought together for damage control on the most recent disaster. Shortly after discussion starts one member takes the floor and announces "We don't need to dwell on the past. Our mission is to move forward from today".

 

"Ah, yes, now I remember what you did."

[Jack Bennett]

5 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

I, too, enjoy your long philosophical ramblings. They are thought provoking, and evocative. While studying and learning everything I can about as many things as I can has been a way of life for me? Restoring antique automobiles truly is my hobby. I "think" I would have liked to make it my career, but it was not to be for me. Although one of my longest and best friends was like Ed Minnie here, and became a professional collection manager and consultant to several major collectors. He is now retired, but I got to see how making a living at one's hobby can often put a strain on actually enjoying the hobby.

Me? Life never treated me very well. Family needs always cost way too much (and much of that family frankly did not deserve my sacrifices for them!). Money was always tight, and way too many cars I restored or acquired and really wanted to keep and enjoy for the rest of my life had to be sold for those family needs. I cannot afford to do the quality of restoration that I would like, and usually cut a lot more corners than I care to admit to. Every collector car that has gone through my hands has left in better shape than it was in when I got it. I can be proud of that.

If I ever can get back to work on my "current" projects, the 1915 model T runabout will not be as nice as I would like for it to be. But I will be proud of it and enjoy the car anyplace I ever take it!

 

The working career I wound up in was a natural for me. My dad was a cable television pioneer, building some of the earliest systems in the 1950s! He fancied himself a businessman, and became a communications systems contractor when I was young. I had a bizarre natural understanding of RF (radio frequency) propagation and electromagnetic interference phenomenon. 

The juxtaposition of my hobby, and my career was interesting. Both of them had me meeting and getting to know truly wealthy people. (Not that that gave me any advantages financially?) The antique automobile hobbyist wealthy were very different from the others. I was fortunate to meet several major collectors that I seldom ever mention their names out of respect for their privacy. Most of them were very decent and down to Earth people! That regardless of how they earned their wealth, and most of them DID earn it! Other wealthy people I met through work? They tended to be arrogant, with feelings of entitlement, and greedy. 

We did quite a bit of information technologies early development work. I met several people that became wealthy through the internet one way or another. I spent much of two weeks in the home of one of the best known computer company founders. We were "fixing" the television distribution system in his multimillion dollar mansion. The arrogant SOB had his "expert" install the system, they did everything wrong from the start. And after spending most of two forty hour weeks replacing defective wiring his "experts" had installed, inside his beautiful walls without leaving a mark anywhere? He refused to pay the bill in full, saying he shouldn't have to pay US so much to replace what cost him a fraction to install before the walls were finished. The simple fact is it costs a lot more to fix idiot's mistakes than to do it right the first time.

A "big oil" corporation international attorney pulled the same stunt on us. Paid an electrician thousands of dollars to install television wiring in his $14,000,000 mansion (that was the actual cost of construction on land he had owned for years), in spite of the fact we had done distribution systems for him for many years in his real estate holdings. Television distribution is not the simple thing most people think it is. When they moved into the new home, and couldn't watch tv almost anywhere? Then he called us. The electrician had done everything wrong. Wrong design, wrong equipment, wrong materials, basically nothing worked. We had to figure out how to run correct materials in proper routings to reach every room, and it was a lot of rooms, on four floors! The construction managers kept assuring us that we would be paid in full for all our hard work and special care to not leave any marks where they did not belong. They kept telling us what various projects were costing, and that our little mess we were asked to fix would be nothing by comparison.

We had three people working on the project for over three weeks! And when we were done, the system worked everywhere just like it was supposed to! It was not a simple fix! When it became time for our bill to be paid? Same argument. Why should I pay you thirty thousand dollars to fix a system that I only paid seven thousand dollars to have installed in the first place? It is amazing how they couldn't understand that the cheap improperly done system didn't work? And it costs several times more money to install wiring in a wall after the walls are all finished than it does to install it before the siding is put on!

In the hobby, I have met many wealthy people, that I considered them to be intelligent and thoughtful. In my years as a communications systems contractor, I met quite a few wealthy people that I considered to be selfish wealthy idiots! I could tell a dozens other stories of greedy and stupid developers.

 

Jack B, Yes, I totally understand your feelings about keeping "work" and "hobby" separate.

Do what is best for you. In the grand scheme of things? Whether you finish restoring the Fargo truck or not won't make much difference. I get the feeling that you are a lot like I am. I find great pleasure in taking hundred year old automobile parts that other people have refused to use, and turning them into good usable pieces again. I have restored several model Ts over the years. More than half of them were from badly rusted remains that other people had rejected. Most of those cars I have really enjoyed the many miles I later put onto them before I had to sell them.

But that is me.

 

 

Keep in mind that I am a retired Army soldier, who enlisted as a Private E-1, served in the combat arms for 21 years, five years in a combat zone, and throughout that time, was limited to owning what fit in a 77 pound duffel bag.

And then I hired into a high paying management position and quickly discovered I could not sleep at night knowing that the primary goal of managers was to produce rhetoric, induce confusion, and dazzle higher level managers with their BS. because they couldn’t blind them with their brilliance.

After three years of playing manager, I returned to a vocation closer to my role in the military, and spent the next 19 years as a correctional officer in a medium custody prison.

I console myself on the vocations I practiced as I rode the rails to a comfortable retirement by thinking of my role as a soldier as a “missionary”, of sorts. And, my role in correctional custody was just the opposite in that I kept the uncouth from prematurely cluttering up the here-in-after with their misdeeds.

I will explain that, as a soldier, my sole reason for existence was to expedite those who chose to match my wits as a war fighter in their rendezvous with their maker.

As a correctional officer, I shared responsibility with the agency to keep convicted felons incarcerated, and maintain a level of security they couldn’t harm themselves, or others, and lessen the possibility they would be bothering St. Peter any time soon.

Now, back to the topic, and the stimulus for my previous spiel.

In none of these vocations, even if I could, I would never have brought them home and attempted saddling others with acceptance either was a “hobby”.

Instead I built models, learned ceramics, played with electronics, read and studied to enhance my promotability. But it was over 15 years before I had the career stability, or non dedicated money to even consider buying a transportation car, much less an antique hobby car.

I ultimately chose reanimation of antique machines as a hobby because I became worn out in the ancestory hobby.

Machines are static in their design, purpose and loyalty. A truck of 1910 will still be a truck in 2023, and a Dodge will still be a Dodge while a Graham Paige will be a Graham Paige. The difference is the times and demographics of their creation. And, even though a Graham Paige is made of parts stamped with “GP” and a Dodge may carry the “DB” stamp, I can be assured that they cannot be traced back to a Civil War General or a Revolutionary War boat Captain, which instantly removes a matter of contention between myself and other “historians” who claim the General and/or boat captain as their ancestors.

I do consider the hobby of antique machine collection, and reanimation, as something related to history and mechanics, as I also consider King Tut’s chariot, or a Roman Trebuchet to be historical, and both are undeniably machines.

But I neither desire to possess a chariot, much less a 2000 year old chariot, and I believe the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department would respond with blacked out tactical vehicles, and lots of firepower, a few minutes after I brought, even a small, trebuchet home.

So, I invest my time, efforts and funds into my old machines rather than opening Egyptian tombs or studying Roman war tactics.

And, I do not miss the days in uniform of either the army or corrections, and I may feel a smidgen of sadness when the weather is too bad to drive my old machines.

It is what I do, and while it does rub me a bit wrong when the neighbors calls my back yard a “junk yard”, or makes their sneed remarks about my “little boy toys”, I think I will still survive to pollute their air of tomorrow with the notorious “Willys exhaust smoke” as I drive by.

 

[Jack Bennett]

5 hours ago, TAKerry said:

I would not say only, there is architecture, art, writing, etc. etc.

Personally, I have ultimate respect for the innovative person who thought up the “Ball Hammock” line of men’s underwear. 
These things imply, without need of further explanation, that a person has a “set”, and the concern is there that they hang together in harmony.

Furthermore, I surreptitiously advertise them as a “set” and overtly imply they are so magnanimous that I need a hammock to contain them.

The only thing I would add to the functionality and appeal of my “Ball Hammock” underwear is to sell them as “outer”, rather than “under” wear. 
In that way others could share my admiration of their architecture, artistry in their design and, decently, announce that I had a set.

Realizing that it is now a primary consideration for me to be recognized as a conformist, I must be able to tastefully conform., And, as such, need to impress others with my “set”, but also realizing that my wearing of a “Ball Hammock” would be a total waste of space, money and material I casually display mine on a clothesline along the street side of my home.

 

Edited January 12 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[JRA]

I have always reflected about my art skills, that are actually inexistent for music, painting, sculpture…however, I realized, as a man, my art is in the restoration of antique cars. My efforts on ensuring their glory, beauty, harmony and operability of the past are returned to life, to be shared with others, are always a pleasure and a contribution to society, mostly paid by genuine smiles of unknown people on the streets.

 I am glad we have this community of fine and dedicated artists here, what I am very proud to be part of.

[kgreen]

I keep a comfortble chair in my garage that fits well and can enhance the joy that a cup of coffee brings.  I visually peruse my surroundings, noting a lifetime collection of tools and and enjoy a knowledge that serves a purpose similar to that found with a good cup of coffee; that being joy.  This is one of many hobbies that entertain and sooth my mind so that I can continue a career that serves others.  Nothing in life should be meant to pass time so that one can get to the other end with as little pain as possible.  This hobby brings together the soldier, the technician, the professional and everybody else that cares to recognize a connection to inner satisfaction, and then like you Jack a willingness to share with others.  I would have never met many of the people I now know if not for this hobby.  I hope for everyone "the probability of having a entire lifetime of something to do", whether it be a Harley or a Cushman.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

17 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

Personally, I have ultimate respect for the innovative person who thought up the “Ball Hammock” line of men’s underwear. 
These things imply, without need of further explanation, that a person has a “set”, and the concern is there that they hang together in harmony.

Furthermore, I surreptitiously advertise them as a “set” and overtly imply they are so magnanimous that I need a hammock to contain them.

The only thing I would add to the functionality and appeal of my “Ball Hammock” underwear is to sell them as “outer”, rather than “under” wear. 
In that way others could share my admiration of their architecture, artistry in their design and, decently, announce that I had a set.

Realizing that it is now a primary consideration for me to be recognized as a conformist, I must be able to tastefully conform., And, as such, need to impress others with my “set”, but also realizing that my wearing of a “Ball Hammock” would be a total waste of space, money and material I casually display mine on a clothesline along the street side of my home.

 

 Well said!  Bravo.

 

  Ben

[Jack Bennett]

6 hours ago, kgreen said:

I keep a comfortble chair in my garage that fits well and can enhance the joy that a cup of coffee brings.  I visually peruse my surroundings, noting a lifetime collection of tools and and enjoy a knowledge that serves a purpose similar to that found with a good cup of coffee; that being joy.  This is one of many hobbies that entertain and sooth my mind so that I can continue a career that serves others.  Nothing in life should be meant to pass time so that one can get to the other end with as little pain as possible.  This hobby brings together the soldier, the technician, the professional and everybody else that cares to recognize a connection to inner satisfaction, and then like you Jack a willingness to share with others.  I would have never met many of the people I now know if not for this hobby.  I hope for everyone "the probability of having an entire lifetime of something to do", whether it be a Harley or a Cushman.

Thanks kgreen. There are times, especially when I am writing something to the forum, that I simply can’t find words to say what I mean. 
You have said whatever I could say, only more perfectly.

Thanks again.

[nsbrassnut]

For Jack

What are we that are want to preserve, reanimate, repair or restore these old items. We are dreamers. Who else looks at old rusty metal and rotten wood and only sees the shiny original vehicle that it was and think of what it could be again.

Depending on what we started with and on our individual skills and resources the process could be anywhere from a full restoration to a mild recommissioning and anything in between.

So far, I have done a bit of each. A partial restoration, a couple full restorations and will soon be starting a recommissioning.

The one below for me started as a dreamy vision of what it was when I found and picked up this old Cadillac way back while in university. A little over 30 years for the dream to come true and for me to get to take it for a drive.

So, keep on dreaming and plugging away at that Fargo and all the rest of them. We are behind you and looking forward to the updates.

Jeff

[Jack Bennett]

58 minutes ago, nsbrassnut said:

For Jack

What are we that are want to preserve, reanimate, repair or restore these old items. We are dreamers. Who else looks at old rusty metal and rotten wood and only sees the shiny original vehicle that it was and think of what it could be again.

Depending on what we started with and on our individual skills and resources the process could be anywhere from a full restoration to a mild recommissioning and anything in between.

So far, I have done a bit of each. A partial restoration, a couple full restorations and will soon be starting a recommissioning.

The one below for me started as a dreamy vision of what it was when I found and picked up this old Cadillac way back while in university. A little over 30 years for the dream to come true and for me to get to take it for a drive.

So, keep on dreaming and plugging away at that Fargo and all the rest of them. We are behind you and looking forward to the updates.

Jeff

 

Since I was 14 years old, my dream car was a metallic purple, white top with white leather tuck and roll upholstery, 1955 Ford Crown Victoria with the bad 272 CI V-8 engine.

Of course, my income as a day laborer barely afforded three hots and a cot for the wife and kids, and the Army did not include the space for owning a car on our personal property record.

I am too vocal in spieling about my own preferred way of treating this hobby, but I wish I were a bit younger, a tad more wealthy (then) and was able to do some serious antique and classic car restoration.

While I yak a lot on the forum about overdoing it on getting a pleasure ride repaired to a safe and drivable state, I have ultimate and absolute respect for some of the beautiful machines brought back to life, and I have a infinite level of respect and admiration for the skills and tenacity of those with the fortitude to do it.

Honestly, I have no right to even expect to live long enough to do a total restoration on a 1955 Ford Crown Victoria, and while I could now buy one professionally restored, I’d sooner by the hamburger joint down the street to have a readily available supply of fast food.