Time to get a rile on…..going to hand paint it

[Jack Bennett]

I bought the 1929 Fargo Express Panel as a winter project.

However, after getting a better look at the truck, I think I bit off a little more than I can swallow in one, or a whole bunch of winters.

I have reconstructed a 1927 Willys Knight, and that was my introduction to a car which contains more wood than metal.

Then I got the 1923 Dodge Brothers roadster which is advertised as being a “all metal” car. 
Well, we all know how that goes…….right?

Anyway, having experienced the Willys, and then the Dodge, I have just about had my fill of rotten and missing wooden car parts.

Then, along comes the Fargo with a whole load of rotten wood, and a equal amount of rotten metal.

I dote on challenge, and, with the Fargo I sure got one. But, it is a project, and that’s what the old car racket is all about…..rotted wood, rusted metal and whatever else rings a old car guys bell.

In this case though, I will break with the idea that a old car has to look better than new to be acceptable as a “restored” car.

Instead I will revert to a technique that has been used on cars since 1929, and that does not include a sixteen coat paint job of high gloss acrylic, or a trip to the local powder coating place for a exotic coating of some sort of ceramic.

I call it “brush” painting, and I have done it for the past 65 years to keep a car from rusting, and I am sure the Fargo is no stranger to this unusual process of metal preservation.

I have decided that it will be impossible to finish up the body work on the Fargo this summer, next summer, and maybe several summers in the future.

So, I will slather a lot of primer, a whole lot of paint, and wait for the neighbors to compliment me on the quality of their air considering they can’t complain about my overspray.

As my project proceeds, I’ll post some photos to share my paint job.

[Rusty_OToole]

You can do quite a nice paint job with brush and roller if you apply a couple of thin coats, wet sand with 800, couple more coats, wet sand with 600, 2 more coats, wet sand with 1000 and polish and wax. There was quite a bit of discussion of this subject a few years ago on the net.

[marcapra]

POR 15 or the old Corroless are meant to be put on with a brush or roller and would be a great start over rusty metal that has been wire brushed first.  

[wayne sheldon]

I admit it! I ain't gonna lie! I have brush painted a few cars over the years. A couple I hoped to keep long enough to repaint and do a better job of it. And a few because I don't want to fool around with highly toxic really stupid expensive modern paints. Good old type oil based enamels can work fine, and are still available at farm and boating stores.

 

A couple of my favorite cars came to me as horrible unrestorable piles of junk. It was easier to brush when ready than to keep ready parts until I had enough to set up the spray equipment. Several such cars came out looking just fine, and I enjoyed them on tours for as long as I had them done enough to drive.

Every antique automobile I ever owned and later sold, was better (most a LOT better!) when I sold it than it was when I bought it. So I feel good about them.

[Rusty Heaps]

By all means brush it! If it weren’t for brush, roller, and rattle can I’m not sure if I could afford a paint job for most of the basket cases I fool with. I love thinned oil based paint and the little cigar rollers. 

[Mark Shaw]

Go for it Jack.   I have also used boat paint on my early cars with wood bodies.  These single stage paints are reasonably priced and work well on wood bodies that flex and breathe with changes in weather.  Even brush painted surfaces can be sanded and re-sprayed later to shine like new.

[Walt G]

The paint jobs that are being spoken about - in fact any paint job - sprayed, brushed, rolled on will depend upon how smooth the surface is prepared, " prepped" this goes for boat paint, varnish, shellac, lacquer etc. the color top coat can not solve the problem of a crusty/lumpy/wavy surface on the metal. 90% of the time spent needs to be spent on the surface preparation and priming of same. Making sure the primer can accept the top coat!  I have studied all sorts of types of paint - old and new. And what I don't know I ask my former bro in law who is my "brother" who was the head of a body shop for decades.

What you see here I believe I have posted before - it is the rear fender of a motorcycle that was made for an English carousel ( they call fair ground ride - we also call a merry go round) it is brush painted. . Paint is not cheap - it is One Shot Sign lettering enamel. This is what Pin stripers use for pin stripes. Surface was perfectly smooth to start with, the paint flows out to show no brush marks IF you use a fine camels hair brush ( and they are not cheap) you can't see any brush marks and the brush I used was 3/4 of an inch wide. The paint has to dry overnight +. But hardens like rock! This is what sign painters letter the sides of trucks with for advertising or did until the self adhesive image became popular.

Brush painting can be wonderful but most will just "slap it on" and shrug their shoulders because it looks like it was done by a 7 year old kid who sneezed a lot in the progress  . If you want to do it take the time to do it properly. Don't be satisfied with a "Meh" finish that looks like it was done by Moe, Larry and Curly .......................

[60FlatTop]

Transtar company makes a brushable poly primer. I have a gallon it the garage and have used it. That is a good start. Do one panel at a time. By the time you get the last one done your skill will be so good you will want to go back and start again.

 

Nice brush jobs have been around since the Ming Dynasty.

 

[Jack Bennett]

9 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

I admit it! I ain't gonna lie! I have brush painted a few cars over the years. A couple I hoped to keep long enough to repaint and do a better job of it. And a few because I don't want to fool around with highly toxic really stupid expensive modern paints. Good old type oil based enamels can work fine, and are still available at farm and boating stores.

 

A couple of my favorite cars came to me as horrible unrestorable piles of junk. It was easier to brush when ready than to keep ready parts until I had enough to set up the spray equipment. Several such cars came out looking just fine, and I enjoyed them on tours for as long as I had them done enough to drive.

Every antique automobile I ever owned and later sold, was better (most a LOT better!) when I sold it than it was when I bought it. So I feel good about them.

Great minds think alike. I bought the Fargo, knowing absolutely nothing about how it was made, as a winter project.

But, the idea that I could do the woodwork in the heated comfort of my shop, and leave the metal until the weather cleared was miserably dashed when I found that the metal had disintegrated every place it had touched the rotted wood. 
And, it was found that many of the structural pieces of wood were encased in metal, and it was impossible to access them without disassembling the entire structure. And, likewise, when the wood piece was finished it became necessary to reassemble the piece as a assembly, and that included resealing the wood into the metal encasement.

It is cold and damp with predictable wind and rain showers for most of the short winter days here in Washington State.

Working with a age addled brain is tough, and remembering mistakes is a vitally important step when doing something which can get really expensive, really fast, and can/will go wrong at every opportunity.

I stopped making a note of the amount of money I was spending on the expensive acrylic paint jobs I did on the 1951 Plymouth after the third (failed) paint job. On two occasions the paint looked fine, initially, but begin to pucker and buckle free from the primer. And then I read the instructions which clearly say that it should be at least 70 degrees and the paint MUST be applied to a clean, dry surface. Reaching a daytime temperature of 70 degrees is not even possible in the wildest dream, and metal tends to get wet when the humidity reaches 99.9 percent. Of course, the third time was a charm because I woke up at 04:30 in the morning, and by 07:30 had mixed the paint and was ready to start shooting. It so happened that the work crew building the parking lot next door showed up for work early too.

By the time the 2nd bucket of rubble was dumped from the skid loader, and the wind carried the dust to my (still wet) acrylic paint job, I realized that sand textured paint would never be a popular choice for a classic car color.

So, now, as I disassemble a piece of the Fargo, I take it all into my shop, but spray painting with the wood stove may provide more heat than my shop can handle.

Instead, I do the metal sanding one day….or however long it takes, apply a coating of primer, and set it aside in my garage. It is now possible to cut and shape the wood which I removed from the metal pieces, and I can do so at my own pace since it will take a day or two before I can repair the metal and put a final coat of paint on it.

I like this because the metal is protected from further rust damage, the wood is finished, and I don’t have a lot of cleanup so far as the spray guns and mixing containers are concerned.

And, the idea that I use Tractor Supply Company tractor paint, rather than the three part acrylic, I would normally mix and spray, sure makes the job go smoother and faster as well as the time wasted setting up and tearing down the compressor.

Sure, I can expect to tear the truck apart again within the next year and, as the weather and my health permits, redo the paint job with a high gloss, and extremely attractive spray paint job.

However, at nearly 80 years old, with one fake arm and another quickly failing, a bad back, calcified lungs and bad feet, I am a little proud when my day ends, my truck is back to black, and I am capable of looking forward to breathing in pounds of sawdust come a new day.

[Jack Bennett]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

Transtar company makes a brushable poly primer. I have a gallon it the garage and have used it. That is a good start. Do one panel at a time. By the time you get the last one done your skill will be so good you will want to go back and start again.

 

Nice brush jobs have been around since the Ming Dynasty.

 

I am in no position to disagree with the Ming Dynasty using paint and a brush on their sedan chairs because I was only a youngster during that era.

I do know of a high school lad who brush painted a 1938 Dodge, a 1941 Dodge, a 1949 Fraser and a 1951 Chrysler convertible. 
During those days Earl Scheib would paint any car for $49.95, and there was always a bit of paint left over when a paint job was finished.

I did get a allowance for doing chores around the house, but there was so many better ways to spend my quarter a week allowance on other than paint.

Admittedly, the many different colors mixed together into the single container may not have been a choice presented to Danny “the count” for use on his Counting Cars television program, but it sure was better than spending big bucks ($7.25) for a gallon of car enamel.

And, I’ll safely bet that the 38 and 41 Dodges, as well as the Frazer and Chrysler would still be rust free, if they are still around today.

 

[Jack Bennett]

2 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

Go for it Jack.   I have also used boat paint on my early cars with wood bodies.  These single stage paints are reasonably priced and work well on wood bodies that flex and breathe with changes in weather.  Even brush painted surfaces can be sanded and re-sprayed later to shine like new.

I think the word “later” implies a bit of what we hope for when we do take a 100 year old piece of metal, saved countless times from the smelter, and hope to add years to IT’S life.

Actually, the car may achieve a long deserved rest, as we will also, with our passing, and a nifty paint job offers no protection from the grim reaper.

”Later” is a statement of confidence that there will be a future time when we can spend more time with our chariot, and if the conditions permit, give it a new coat of paint.

However, if “later” is not a word found in your vocabulary, why bother adding years, regardless of how it’s done, to a car which may not be around “later” to enjoy it?

[Jack Bennett]

13 hours ago, marcapra said:

POR 15 or the old Corroless are meant to be put on with a brush or roller and would be a great start over rusty metal that has been wire brushed first.  

What is a wire brush🙄?

[Jack Bennett]

13 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

You can do quite a nice paint job with brush and roller if you apply a couple of thin coats, wet sand with 800, couple more coats, wet sand with 600, 2 more coats, wet sand with 1000 and polish and wax. There was quite a bit of discussion of this subject a few years ago on the net.

Thanks for the much welcomed input Rusty. 
My inclination to media blast, wire brush, dry and wet sand multiple times are doused when I finally decide to break out the Rustoleum and the brush.

Believe it or not there are some relatively new Chevy trucks here in Washington State which will be piles of rust in scant few years.

My entire adult life has been spent doing jobs for people like the Lieutenant who shivers, and picks frozen snot from his frostbitten nose, and yells like a mad man……….”Good Training”……..while I replace a thrown track on a fifty year old tank in knee deep (rice paddy) mud and minus forty degree weather.

Now, I am much more interested in the practicality of having a smidgen of metal, now rusted to a near nonexistent state, left when it comes time to put a whole lot of effort into making it beautiful for a neighbor who calls my old cars a “junk yard”.

Grinding, sanding, exotic paints, primers and preservatives are ok for a project which has been sitting idle in a climate controlled, warehouse sized, garage for the past five decades. But it is not a wise way to spend money, which is better spent on preserving the safety and drivability of a vehicle when compared to spending a fortune over the years just to store it.

My old machines work, and must be drivable. And, in the case of the Fargo, a single distraction from returning it to a operational state, regardless of the number of “OOH’s and AAH’s” or “JEEZ, THAT’S ONE UGLY CREATURE”, I receive while driving it, may be the one minute which decides whether I finish it, or it dies the death it was sentenced to in 1950.

In my opinion, if a brush coat of gasoline thinned and dulled OD paint was good enough for a 50 year old M48 tank, which held the lives of myself and three crewmen in it hands when faced with 170,000 fanatical North Koreans, it is surely good enough for a old Fargo truck which would strain under a load of air……….

But it meets every need of a old car fanatic, and that is it gives me something to wake up to, and keeps me out of younger peoples faces.

[Jack Bennett]

7 hours ago, Rusty Heaps said:

By all means brush it! If it weren’t for brush, roller, and rattle can I’m not sure if I could afford a paint job for most of the basket cases I fool with. I love thinned oil based paint and the little cigar rollers. 

Thank goodness for oil based paint and little cigar rollers. Were it not for these useful accouterments, so useful when manually applied with a brush, we would not have the works of Pablo Picasso and Michelangelo to brighten our days.

I honestly can’t comment on the availability, or spread of colors, of the rattle cans they may/may not have used.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Walt G]

2 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Do one panel at a time. By the time you get the last one done your skill will be so good you will want to go back and start again.

Bernie

Very well stated! Excellent. Time and Patience are what it mostly about - skill comes with practice and concentration.

Walt

[60FlatTop]

The key to a good brush paint job, like many other cosmetic old car work, is to always leave one very obvious error in the job. It will immediately attract the self appointed concours judge, get their comment, and allow them to move on. I like to put a small dab of paint on the right rear of the back glass.

 

And crank up the tunes. Get some rhythm and shake them tail feathers! "Who's your painter, Baby!"

[Paul Dobbin]

Jack,

I'm sure the 1929 Fargo was no  over sanded base coat, clear coat, sanded and buffed, and hand polished finish when new.

Some time after the Ming Dynasty (1958) my brother and I started painting his 1951 Oldsmobile 98 Conv., with a brush.   Then we

moved to Florida, where the house our parents bought had a lot of leftover house paints in the garage and a Electrolux Vacumn

Cleaner with a Spray gun attachment !!!   What a find  !!,  We mixed pains until we liked the lavender color, a sprayed he car.

It had a finish that we described a "Stucco Light".   But as 15 & 17 year olds we were proud of our work.   Only problem was that

it faded to Pink rather quickly and required occasional repaints back to Lavender.   Nobody teased us, because of the crap they

were driving.   After 3 9r 4 paint jobs with newer paint, we got so good at it that our poor body work showed thru the paint.

In 1963 it was the best looking 1951 Olds 98  on the beach.

[Jack Bennett]

Well, the 1951 218 Ci Dodge pickup engine is in the Fargo, and today I went to Harbor Freight to buy a transmission jack to finish the install.

With the exception to the cab side door stantions, I have cut and installed most of the new wood work.

It will take some time to get the badly rusted metal ready for primer and painting, but I think I have decided in the direction I will go with the paint.

The photo is of a Screenside, and I’m not sure if it’s even a Fargo, but I think it is a 1929, and other than mine being a express panel, and this one a Screenside, they both appear to be trucks.

Again…….I WISH IT WERE, BUT THIS IS NOT MY TRUCK. But like the paint job, and may borrow its scheme to use on my own Fargo.

The black will stay black, but I am leaning to use Hunter Hreen everyplace this on uses blue………..

Any thoughts?

Edited January 28 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

I like it!  

[Harold]

The blue looks good, but I'd tend towards something brighter like a Kelly green or possibly a yellow.

Tractor Supply Company sells equipment enamel that may have a color that appeals to you.  They may have color chips that you can use to get a better idea of what their colors look like.

[Jack Bennett]

3 hours ago, Harold said:

The blue looks good, but I'd tend towards something brighter like a Kelly green or possibly a yellow.

Tractor Supply Company sells equipment enamel that may have a color that appeals to you.  They may have color chips that you can use to get a better idea of what their colors look like.

TSC paint it is. Their paint is named after the tractor it is intended. For example, my 1947 Ford 8N uses Ford Red and Ford Gray. I’ll probably go with the Deere Green on the Fargo. I am going to do the inside of the bed in Hunter Green enamel because I’ll be painting mostly wood. I had considered doing it up in stain and spar varnish. But I have decided to not do that.

I have not been in the old car culture too long, but I made a few good friends quickly who shared the hobby.

Most recently the last of these friends died and left a lesson with me that I will carry with me to my grave.

This fellow was a perfectionist so far as his antique cars goes.

He had a beautiful Dodge Coupe which would have made the Dodge Brothers jealous. He had driven this car on one road trip, and had more recently made a few local trips.

He also had a 1917 Dodge coupe that was the apple of his eye. But, he started on the car a bit late in his life, and life seemed to get in his way a bit too often.

I had asked him several times to let me help him finish the 1917 to the point he could, at least, take it for a short drive.

But it seemed as though there was always something else to do to it, and one of the things was his unwavering quest for perfection.

Now, he will never finish the 1917, and soon, someone else will be driving the 1915.

My quest is for “as good as possible”, and now much of the cosmetics will be left for a time after I have totally convinced myself the car is ready to drive, and the amount of cosmetics I put into it will be a direct reflection of the amount of pleasure it offers me to drive it.

I think the saying goes “It’s a lot like putting lipstick on a pig”.
 

[wayne sheldon]

I like a nice dark green on a lot of antique automobiles. Especially on commercial vehicles. I think a Hunter or Brewster green looks great on trucks. I generally like an original factory color on cars, which were more standardized, but trucks were often painted the company's color regardless.

I have had two antique truck I restored. A 1925 Ford TT truck with a wooden after-market body, and a brass era model T pickup, also an after-market wooden body. Both I painted dark green.

People love "natural finish" on wood on antique automobiles. But the truth is, that back in the day it was not commonly done.  I can think of several beautiful trucks with natural finish inside that I wouldn't want to change a thing on them. Even though I know it likely wasn't that way originally (although one I knew quite well in fact was done that way originally).

It always pleases me when someone paints the interior of their antique truck. To me, it just feels right.

[Jack Bennett]

10 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

I like a nice dark green on a lot of antique automobiles. Especially on commercial vehicles. I think a Hunter or Brewster green looks great on trucks. I generally like an original factory color on cars, which were more standardized, but trucks were often painted the company's color regardless.

I have had two antique truck I restored. A 1925 Ford TT truck with a wooden after-market body, and a brass era model T pickup, also an after-market wooden body. Both I painted dark green.

People love "natural finish" on wood on antique automobiles. But the truth is, that back in the day it was not commonly done.  I can think of several beautiful trucks with natural finish inside that I wouldn't want to change a thing on them. Even though I know it likely wasn't that way originally (although one I knew quite well in fact was done that way originally).

It always pleases me when someone paints the interior of their antique truck. To me, it just feels right.

There is no indication that the interior of the truck was anything other than the original green, painted over with a healthy swathing of black and then allowed to migrate back to nature as rust and rot.

I have another thread in which I ask the hypothetical question “do you talk to your projects?
I say “hypothetical” because you’d say “that’s personification, and that touches on beastiality”, and us moral beings don’t practice those weird things.

Before escaping our mouths as intelligible words, these words are formed in the brain, and then hooked to another string of waiting thoughts, and uttered as audible utterings. 

Thus, although the “words” never escape your mouth, a path of communication does take place between you and your old car every time that screwdriver slips and you make an unsolicited/unscheduled blood offering. Or, when that single bolt, of a extinct thread, of a size so unusual you used a abacus, instead if a micrometer to determine its diameter, and doesn’t fit any length measurement known to modern man, and purchased after years of searching, and spending a small fortune to own it, piously, slowly, and with complete deliberation rolls into the seemingly impossible water port exposed when the head was removed for inspection.

A bit off the “paint” agenda, but it is a Sunday and this is a “talk” forum, so I’ll get back to the paint in a minute.

This, of course, is hyperbole, and offers the opportunity for us to laugh at our misgivings in that we chose old machine animation over computer gaming as a hobby.

Anyway, I have never previously suggested that any level of communication, whether audible or mental actually elicits a answer from the object of our obsession.

Well, it now seems as though I can no longer make that claim as I have acquired a antique Fargo panel truck which does use at least one intelligible, and unmistakable word to communicate.

This truck sat, possibly ignored, and completely alone for at least a half century. And, I am 100% certain, if it is capable of harboring “ill” feelings, of any sort, in any form, it has accumulated a kings ransom of “ill”, albeit not necessarily “bad, “evil” or even “malicious” feelings toward its human tormentors.

So, while it was unexpected, it was not a total surprise to find that the Fargo frame was badly warped, both laterally and longitudinally, probably when it readjusted to conform more comfortably with being stored, missing wheels, on a uneven surface for over 50 years.

This warp did not become so evident as when I had used the rotted and missing parts of the wood frame to cut new, and now to specification, pieces to replace the bed, frame and cab structures.

A few days ago I cut sheets of plywood to use as a top pending completion of the moldings and other trim pieces I need to do a permanent top install.

It has been cold, with afternoon rain, here since the day I lost my “Farmers Almanac” years ago.

Anyway, the plywood, being perfectly square, was tacked to the top frame, and done a fairly good job of keeping the inside of the truck dry.

But yesterday I went out to work on the truck and the plywood was skewed with nearly the rear half of the bed exposed.

Apparently the wood top frame, cut to mimic the precise angles of a nearly true frame, had decided to reconfigure themselves to conform more closely to the off kilter angles of the now warped frame.

And, as the rain dropped through the now open roof, and splashed methodically on the new tongue and groove wood of the floor, I swear I heard the truck clearly say…….with a slight Canadian accent, and a undeniable giggle……..”BS”…………”BS”……”BS”………..”BS”………..”BS”………

Back to the paint……while the differential, axles, inner frame and brake backing plates are exposed I will use the media blaster to take of most of the accumulated road debris, and years of crud and rust, and then pressure wash the surfaces to remove any trace of oil or old lubricant. And then, I suppose I will give the parts a good coating of red rust primer prior to shooting the whole circus in black enamel.

A last mention. The inside top of the cab has a cross beam, which runs lateral to the cab sides, made of oak, broken possibly nearly a century ago, and mended with a couple of screws, bolts and two steel plates.

I like the ambiance this on-site, unplanned and extremely personalized, repair lends to the truck. So, I will clean up and repaint the beam, replace the metal strap with new metal, and replace the rusty, and now bent, bolts with new, but the beam itself will be used in lieu of a new one.

The truck has no accommodation for a dome light. Not that it does not need one, it just doesn’t have one.

So, as I sit in the newly redone interior of the truck, and it is exceeding dark, I find no surprise when I see the little, twinkling light centered on the repaired part of the beam.

Nor is it surprising to immediately ascertain that the light emanates from the glowing smile of a stressed, overloaded, behind schedule, poorly paid, delivery truck driver who returns to his truck only to find that the cab roof has collapsed, and the cab is now filled with snow.

All hopes of completing the route any time soon, and trecking the several snow slicked miles back home, has suddenly changed from being improbable to impossible.

It is Christmas Eve, and it is ironic that he has been frantically delivering parcels intended for presents to adoring kids, while he can’t even make it home to be with his own kids during this most precious evening of the year.

As suddenly as it appeared, his sense of despair disappeared when the nearby garage owner showed up with two bolts, two nuts, two pieces of strap steel and an old hand powered drill. In no time the cab was cleared, the beam repaired, and the delivery driver was again on the path which lead directly to his from door.

And no amount of new wood or paint will add one iota of value to the truck in regards to how good I takes me feel to be able to share this tiny light with generations to come.

 

 

 

Edited January 28 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

9 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

I like a nice dark green on a lot of antique automobiles. Especially on commercial vehicles. I think a Hunter or Brewster green looks great on trucks. I generally like an original factory color on cars, which were more standardized, but trucks were often painted the company's color regardless.

I have had two antique truck I restored. A 1925 Ford TT truck with a wooden after-market body, and a brass era model T pickup, also an after-market wooden body. Both I painted dark green.

People love "natural finish" on wood on antique automobiles. But the truth is, that back in the day it was not commonly done.  I can think of several beautiful trucks with natural finish inside that I wouldn't want to change a thing on them. Even though I know it likely wasn't that way originally (although one I knew quite well in fact was done that way originally).

It always pleases me when someone paints the interior of their antique truck. To me, it just feels right.

In rereading your post, I notice that you use the words “natural finish”, and I’m not absolutely sure I understand what you mean.

I am doing the Fargo somewhat more flimsier than I have done and past projects.  
The obstacles which prevent me from doing this truck up as a show car or collectors are obvious, and too numerous to count.

I am a combat disabled veteran who was ridden hard, and put away wet, countless times during my career in the Army. I have one arm which is on loan from Madigan AMC, and another which does a limited amount of work, as it sees fit to do. But, this is fodder for another time and another forum.

However, this truck does not have a single inch of metal which is thicker than the tin foil in a cigarette pack, and the wood has not only lost its identity as a species, it has lost any semblance to having a purpose.

I am neither able to differentiate between “white oak” and “elm” in the windshields stanchion, because there is no wood left in the stanchion to use as a example, nor do I have any intention to even try.

And the thought of replacing every sheet of rotten metal is nothing short of a nightmare.

Putting that all aside, and returning to what you said about a “natural finish”.

I am using a lot of fir and alder in reconstructing this old buggy. And the lower half of the bed lining are boards, about 7’ long, 7” wide and 2” thick. They are little more than a soggy mess of smelly pulp held together by a few rusty nails and some rusty screws. 
I plan on replacing them with cedar boards of the same length, width and thickness. The front of the bed is a similar wood, but the boards are much thicker and wider. They too will be replaced.

My question at this point, regressing to cedar fence construction, I have been told that painting cedar ruins its qualities of water shedding and insect resistance.

Thinking about this, how inappropriate will it be if I leave this portion of the wood, in the bed, naked?

 

 

[Jack Bennett]

On 12/9/2023 at 1:38 PM, Paul Dobbin said:

Jack,

I'm sure the 1929 Fargo was no  over sanded base coat, clear coat, sanded and buffed, and hand polished finish when new.

Some time after the Ming Dynasty (1958) my brother and I started painting his 1951 Oldsmobile 98 Conv., with a brush.   Then we

moved to Florida, where the house our parents bought had a lot of leftover house paints in the garage and a Electrolux Vacumn

Cleaner with a Spray gun attachment !!!   What a find  !!,  We mixed pains until we liked the lavender color, a sprayed he car.

It had a finish that we described a "Stucco Light".   But as 15 & 17 year olds we were proud of our work.   Only problem was that

it faded to Pink rather quickly and required occasional repaints back to Lavender.   Nobody teased us, because of the crap they

were driving.   After 3 9r 4 paint jobs with newer paint, we got so good at it that our poor body work showed thru the paint.

In 1963 it was the best looking 1951 Olds 98  on the beach.

You bring flashbacks of my high school days when I drove a 1938 Dodge, a 1941 Dodge, a 1947 Chevy and a 1951 Chrysler convertible.

Earl Schieb would paint any car, any color, for $49.95 plus tax.

Of course yo got exactly what you paid for, and, although $49.95 was a whole lot of money then, we had to drive machines which looked good (to us anyway). 
So, we decided that free was cheaper, and that is what Earl Scheib charged us for the five gallons of paint drippings salvaged at the end of each business day.

That meant that we could stop by Earl Sheib’s on the way home from school, swing into the local gas station and drain their hose into our tanks, swipe some of dad’s paint brushes and have a brand new paint job, with gas in the tank, when we showed up for class the next day.

Perhaps to some the draw back of this endeavor was that the paint from every car shot at the Earl Sheib store, during that day, was dumped into a common bucket, and there was no way of telling what color the paint would be when it dried.

But, we soon discovered that, for extra money, Earl Shieb would shoot a primer coat of charcoal gray prior to shooting the enamel coating.

So, we just collected the drippings from the primer area and painted our cars with no gloss charcoal gray primer. This was easily converted to a good thing which suggested that we were, but not necessarily, doing needed body and fender work, and the car would soon be painted a fabulous, sixteen coat process, metal flake candy apple red with green and gold sparkles, and a clear coat so deep the car would look like a x-ray negative.

[30DodgePanel]

15 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

The photo is of a Screenside, and I’m not sure if it’s even a Fargo, but I think it is a 1929, and other than mine being a express panel, and this one a Screenside, they appear to be identical.

 

 

Hi Jack,

 that blue truck you posted a pic of is a 1927 Graham Brothers built as a Division of Dodge Brothers and was badged Dodge Brothers during this time frame. 

Quite different from a 1929 Fargo Packet in just about every way. Completely different body styles and parts, different wheels, different badges and radiator, different lights, different running gear etc.

 

I understand your reference and why you are reminded of your truck when viewing this beautifully restored Screenside with black spoke, but I just wanted to make sure viewers who may stumble on this thread in the future understand what they are looking at. Sorry to be a stickler on the details, but unfortunately a lot of misinformation and rumors can build if those details are not pointed out in a thread like this and being a member of Dodge Brothers club I believe we should be maintaining historically correct facts when comparing the two. I hope you understand and don't take any offense to my comparison.

 

1927 Dodge Brothers Screenside Canopy Pickup Photo Gallery (leftcoastclassics.com)

 

 

with a Dodge Brothers radiator badge

 

 

 

[63RedBrier]

Please don’t paint it John Deere green!   Especially with yellow wheels!  Then it will just look like you were into tractors and wanted your truck to be a tractor!  I would never consider buying vehicle painted in those colors!  Go with dark green with black fenders…

Edited January 29 by 63RedBrier (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

49 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

 

Hi Jack,

 that blue truck you posted a pic of is a 1927 Graham Brothers built as a Division of Dodge Brothers and was badged Dodge Brothers during this time frame. 

Quite different from a 1929 Fargo Packet in just about every way. Completely different body styles and parts, different wheels, different badges and radiator, different lights, different running gear etc.

 

I understand your reference and why you are reminded of your truck when viewing this beautifully restored Screenside with black spoke, but I just wanted to make sure viewers who may stumble on this thread in the future understand what they are looking at. Sorry to be a stickler on the details, but unfortunately a lot of misinformation and rumors can build if those details are not pointed out in a thread like this and being a member of Dodge Brothers club I believe we should be maintaining historically correct facts when comparing the two. I hope you understand and don't take any offense to my comparison.

 

1927 Dodge Brothers Screenside Canopy Pickup Photo Gallery (leftcoastclassics.com)

 

 

 

with a Dodge Brothers radiator badge

 

 

 

I looked up the word “contention” to verify it was still in use. It is, but it surely does not fit into my vocabulary, vernacular or, most certainly, any discussion on this forum.

I did a serious amount of contemplation regarding the possible amount of flack I’d get by posting a photo of a unidentified truck which possibly belongs to a apparition.

Using a photo, showing vivid colors, with a well defined color scheme, is far easier for me to post than a long drawn out technical manual trying to explain a paint job.

And, were you to post a photo of a truck, which had absorbed years of my life, gallons of my blood, yards of my flesh and pounds of my money, I would not split hairs over it being a Dodge or a Desoto…….I’d be too busy trying to keep my overinflated shirt from exploding from pride to even consider criticizing you.

And, perhaps I need to clarify my intent on posting the photo of the blue, beautifully, and probably professionally restored truck was not to compare it in any way to my junk heap of a reprobate Fargo. And I do, sincerely, apologize if that appeared to be the case.

And, there really isn’t enough of the Fargo left, as an assemblage, to even guess its make, model or place of origin.

Were I to read Facebook, and I saw this same post, I would feel a pang of remorse about the slimmest possibility I had talked about something that was over their heads either in regards to using acrylic, latex or Rustoleum enamel. But this isn’t Facebook, it is AACA, and the majority of the Dodge Brothers Club use it as a portal to advertise their cars for sale, use this forum for intelligent, technical and historical information on their cars.

You have followed my progress with the Fargo, I do appreciate your screen name as it relates to a certain product. but I expect that anyone who has read my posts, has tracked my progress with the truck, and is involved in this undertaking as a hobby, WILL ask a question if I overshoot my evaluation of their intelligence or level of mechanical aptitude.

Looking forward to hearing from you in the future, and thanks for the input.

Edited January 28 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[The 55er]

Back when I was in high school in 1972, The Earl was painting a half-million cars annually with about 200 shops in 33 states. They would paint any car any color for $29.99 unless you wanted an exact color match to the original finish, red, or preferred another one of their 'glamor' colors which bumped the price up to $39.99. They manufactured and used their own brand of paint. I read where each shop had to paint 10 cars a day just to break even.

[Jack Bennett]

55 minutes ago, 63RedBrier said:

Please don’t paint it John Deere green!   Especially with yellow wheels!  Then it will just look like you were into tractors and wanted you truck to be a tractor!  I would never consider buying vehicle painted in those colors!  Go with dark green with black fenders…

I’m stuck inside right now with something I’ll call bronchitis, but not being a medico, I’ll just say I’m under the weather.

The panel has green wheels already, and, it appears, that the fenders and trim, such as the bed hardware were black. 
The cab is gutted and the doors are a collection of rusty metal and bits of rotted wood. But, the bit of paint remaining on them seems to indicate that the interior of the truck was originally green with black accents. But, it was repainted to be all black, and that has rusted off over the years. 
I have my old Plymouth, 23 Dodge, 27 Willys and a few other toys in stasis right now while I decide whether or not the Fargo wants to live.

I am looking at John Deer Green because TSC has it in a 3 part enamel, and I am not ready to pay $500.00 a gallon for acrylic enamel to shoot during a season when we don’t have two connected nice days, much less the number of consecutively nice days it takes to justify a gamble involving the waste of several hundred dollars in paint.

 

[30DodgePanel]

If I recall you needed a door? 
This 1928/29 canopy appears to be very close to what you need, although keep in mind the belt molding curves on the Graham Brothers trucks but not on the Fargos. I'm confident someone like yourself could get it to work if needed. Another difference that one would have to account for is the difference in hinges. GB has 4, Fargo has 3 if I'm not mistaken. Love the progress you're making. Keep up the good work!

 

 

Edited January 28 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

2 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

If I recall you needed a door? 
This 1928/29 canopy appears to be very close to what you need, although keep in mind the belt molding curves on the Graham Brothers trucks but not on the Fargos. I'm confident someone like yourself could get it to work if needed. Another difference that one would have to account for is the difference in hinges. GB has 4, Fargo has 3 if I'm not mistaken. Love the progress you're making. Keep up the good work!

 

 

In the hinge department…….Maybe most Fargo panels have 3 hinges per door but the one I have (badged as a Fargo) has four.

It is missing the bottom two, which I may ultimately fabricate, but can buy for $88.00 each, plus S&H on eBay.

The truck I have, which I can’t even get a good ID on the engine or transmission, will need a custom coupler made for the rear drive shaft/differential connection, is badged as a Fargo. There was not enough of the wood left from the original roof supports or door stanchions to even tell what they looked like. The door stanchions had rotted long ago, I suppose allowing the doors to drop off, fill full of water, break the glass and rust the  regulators and rot the metal. I have since disassembled the doors, have nearly cut and replaced all wood pieces, renewed the regulators and have had plexiglass cut to replace the extraordinarily heavy windows.

I will not live long enough to replace every shard of rusted metal with professionally made pieces, and I have neither the time, skill or will to make them myself. So, the truck will be a rolling Pandora’s Box for the purists and perfectionists because I will fabricate what I can,  use Bondo and fiberglass in other places, and have used wood pieces throughout the truck which would make a  botanist shudder.

I hope this isn’t your truck…but it does not have custom wheels or chrome headlights, which caused contention with the blue one, and it is a very nice example of the paint scheme I propose to use if I don’t decide just to have “Got Junk” come and haul the whole mess away.

For many years, because the wife loved to travel, fish, gather mushrooms and other nature products, I was not able to work on old machinery.

So, I volunteered my time, and adopted the hobby of doing grave stone photographs for the Find a Grave web site. The gravestone can provide invaluable information which may allow a genealogy search to be closed out after several years of fruitless searching and, as a genealogist myself, I thought it made a benign, but essential contribution to other genealogy hobbyists.

And then I started receiving notices which threatened to sue me for infringement of copyright laws, applicable to the grave photos I had taken, and provided other genealogy hobbyists, unless I relinquished ownership of the 4000+ photos I already had registered with the site, and surrendered the other few thousand to a “group leader” who would assign me photographic tasks, and take credit for my photos.

Then I find out that the photos used on the site are tagged with a tracking number and recorded as a private domaine, and requires payment of a fee each time it is used by anyone other than the registered owner.

Essentially what this means is that you can be formally charged with a crime, forced to pay a fine, and are marked a criminal if you copy and share the photo of your mothers gravestone, with your grandkids, on the internet, without first obtaining the permission of the registered owner of the tracking tag, and paying a fee to copy the photo from the find a grave web site.

I no longer volunteer my services as a findagrave photographer, and I am seriously considering the wisdom of continuing to share photographs on the internet as a whole.

I am a twice retired civil servant, have provided services necessary to keep a free electorate and solvent, self directed, economy for the entirety of my adult life. My brothers/sisters at arms have fleshed out the system , which is commonly called “freedom”, and have supported and defended the rights of others to enjoy the same.

7 hours ago, 63RedBrier said:

Please don’t paint it John Deere green!   Especially with yellow wheels!  Then it will just look like you were into tractors and wanted you truck to be a tractor!  I would never consider buying vehicle painted in those colors!  Go with dark green with black fenders…

Nope…..the trailer is named “Archie” and the yellow wheels are not exclusive to a tractor. His sweetheart is “Veronica”, the 1923 Dodge Roadster who shares his paint scheme, and is his primary reason for existence.

Even the wheels of the 1947 Ford 8N tractor, with which Archie spends most of his weekends at the Masonic Historic Cemetery, aren’t painted yellow.

 

Edited January 29 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

12 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

In rereading your post, I notice that you use the words “natural finish”, and I’m not absolutely sure I understand what you mean.

 

 

 

I call it "natural finish" because that is what most people call it. The reason I "quote"  "natural finish" is because that is what most people call it, but that is NOT what it is? Make sense?

 

What most people call "natural finish" is in fact a combination of oils, stains, and synthetic coatings that may be somewhere near clear or in fact have some amount of coloring (often yellowing or a hint of brown or red?). Nothing really "natural" about that!

The idea is of course to highlight and show off the grain of the wood, which is a natural part of its character.  (Ever notice how when the wood is stained and coated with a clear finish, in a lot of woods the lighter part of the grain becomes much darker, and the darker part of the grain by comparison becomes lighter?)

While I have a great appreciation for fine woodwork and furniture, the clearcoats available a hundred years ago did not hold up well under rough use or bad weather. Therefore, they were not practical as a commercial body finish.

Hence why most (not all!) commercial vehicles were painted inside and out.

[63RedBrier]

Hi, Jack!  I was just in TS and looked at the tractor paint.  How about one of these:

 

International Harvester Red?

 

Massey Ferguson Gray?

 

Oliver Green?

 

or,

 

Ford Blue?

 

With black fenders and aprons, the darker IH Red or medium MF Gray would look great!  You'll thank me one day...

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

 

 LOL.  Well, Jack, since folks are suggestion THEIR favorite color, may I as well?   SKY BLUE.  There.   

 

  Actually,  I think you should do what YOU want.  Satisfy yourself.   With  Tractor Supply paint so reasonable, perhaps tint your own!

 

 I am hoping you finish Fargo to at least a one mile trip level. 

 

  Ben

[Jack Bennett]

10 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

 

 

I call it "natural finish" because that is what most people call it. The reason I "quote"  "natural finish" is because that is what most people call it, but that is NOT what it is? Make sense?

 

What most people call "natural finish" is in fact a combination of oils, stains, and synthetic coatings that may be somewhere near clear or in fact have some amount of coloring (often yellowing or a hint of brown or red?). Nothing really "natural" about that!

The idea is of course to highlight and show off the grain of the wood, which is a natural part of its character.  (Ever notice how when the wood is stained and coated with a clear finish, in a lot of woods the lighter part of the grain becomes much darker, and the darker part of the grain by comparison becomes lighter?)

While I have a great appreciation for fine woodwork and furniture, the clearcoats available a hundred years ago did not hold up well under rough use or bad weather. Therefore, they were not practical as a commercial body finish.

Hence why most (not all!) commercial vehicles were painted inside and out.

I gave serious consideration to doing a major part of the exposed woodwork on the Fargo in stain and varnish/lacquer, rather than paint. And, as I progress along in sealing up the seams and seeing what the assembled pieces look like, I still may do it at sometime in the future.

As my energy level drops, and my ability to withstand extended periods outside in the cold diminishes, I now have concerns about starting tasks which will add to the time it will take to just reanimate the truck by adding the time it takes to do unnecessary cosmetic and esthetic tasks.

The truck is already in the negative so far as value goes, and since I have only my dog to worry about the amount I leave in my estate, I’d rather drive the truck once and leave the bling to Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I am leaving the wheels to last because I intend on replacing the brake shoes, wheel cylinders and brake lines. I have found it much easier and faster to compartmentalize this sort of thing rather than make them a long series of detached projects.

That said, I hope I have no need to completely disassemble the wheels, but I will separate the spokes from the hub, and will have to see if I can do the rims without removing the spokes. Regardless, the hubs will be painted dark green, the spokes will be sanded and I will probably finish them up with tung oil and leave them unpainted. https://youtu.be/KqKzUGkiue0

 

[Jack Bennett]

3 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 LOL.  Well, Jack, since folks are suggestion THEIR favorite color, may I as well?   SKY BLUE.  There.   

 

  Actually,  I think you should do what YOU want.  Satisfy yourself.   With  Tractor Supply paint so reasonable, perhaps tint your own!

 

 I am hoping you finish Fargo to at least a one mile trip level. 

 

  Ben

“Stalwart” is a noun describing something “dependable”, “reliable”, “trust worthy”, “hardworking”, “supportive” and “participating”. 
That is a pretty long summation of the meaning of a word which can be capsulated to fit in a single syllable word pronounced as “Ben”.

It doesn’t require a degree in human psychology to understand that forums, such as this, are more a place for guys like me, and when looking at the continual number of visitors on-line, to discuss “things”, in a non contentious environment, rather than providing a panacea to solve every issue related to every problem plaguing the world.

It takes same amount of effort, and finger wagging ability to make a sloppy, suggestive and essentially pointless post on Craigslist personal ads as it does to make a post related to a 94 year old truck on AACA.

The humongous difference is, for those of us who navigate the labyrinth of “sensual” sites to get here, and all the while think “that is someone’s daughter……or Is that what life is about”?, and those who simply drools on their iPad key board and scrolls on, is the fact that I have much more in common with guys like you than mental/moral reprobates, being them.

My machine projects are alive only for the amount of time I see them as living. They will stay in one single place, unless gravity dictates otherwise, or the forces of nature reduce them to rust, and washes them away, or dust, and blows them away, or I reanimate them for a short period of time and enjoy the experience.

Regardless, I will not inflict some serious brain trauma or neural injury by even attempting to guess the number of 1929 model trucks…….yep, even “Fargo’s”……… have been reduced to a state of nonresistance when they were replaced by a newer model, not unlike your new Lexus as related to your old 1989 Geo Metro, or simply abandoned and left to rot.

I consider myself fairly qualified to comment, within well defined borders, on subjects put forth on the forum. And, I also realize it is as important to acknowledge that I am on AACA forum, and not soliciting your son or daughter on Craigslist, as it is to snort into your coffee and ignore me because you don’t care what color I paint my 95 year old truck.

Bottom line here is…….thank’s Ben. Without guys like you I’d be limited to watching CNN and MSNBC, and maybe even become a……..well, you know.

 

[Jack Bennett]

5 hours ago, 63RedBrier said:

Hi, Jack!  I was just in TS and looked at the tractor paint.  How about one of these:

 

International Harvester Red?

 

Massey Ferguson Gray?

 

Oliver Green?

 

or,

 

Ford Blue?

 

With black fenders and aprons, the darker IH Red or medium MF Gray would look great!  You'll thank me one day...

Maybe I was thinking “Oliver Green” rather than John Deer Green.

I do watch Classic Tractor Fever on RFDTV, and they show tractors as they are dressed out in their signature paint colors, and my ROKU TV does fairly well when it comes to depicting the reproduction of colors.

I am leaning toward green, of some sort, since it appears that the truck was painted in some scheme using black and green.

I have several gallons of the high gloss black and various colors of acrylic paint which was bought for other projects, and not used.

I am trying to stay away from colors which induce subliminal mental reactions such as seeing a “red” fire truck, “yellow school bus”, or even a “purple” VW Beetle, similar to the one belonging to a worthless son-in-law drives.

Off subject…….While in TSC did you visit their nut and bolt sales area.

I buy my media blasting materials and dog food from TSC. They also have a good assortment of steel strapping and short lengths of angle iron, and I have some real problems with leaving the store without, at least, $100.00 spent for nuts, bolts, washers and some sort of hardware.

[63RedBrier]

18 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

Maybe I was thinking “Oliver Green” rather than John Deer Green.

I do watch Classic Tractor Fever on RFDTV, and they show tractors as they are dressed out in their signature paint colors, and my ROKU TV does fairly well when it comes to depicting the reproduction of colors.

I am leaning toward green, of some sort, since it appears that the truck was painted in some scheme using black and green.

I have several gallons of the high gloss black and various colors of acrylic paint which was bought for other projects, and not used.

I am trying to stay away from colors which induce subliminal mental reactions such as seeing a “red” fire truck, “yellow school bus”, or even a “purple” VW Beetle, similar to the one belonging to a worthless son-in-law drives.

Off subject…….While in TSC did you visit their nut and bolt sales area.

I buy my media blasting materials and dog food from TSC. They also have a good assortment of steel strapping and short lengths of angle iron, and I have some real problems with leaving the store without, at least, $100.00 spent for nuts, bolts, washers and some sort of hardware.

TSC is my first stop for anything hardware/house/garage related.  It's five miles, next is True Value, another few miles, then Lowe's about :30.  The recurring item we buy at TSC is puppy food for large breed dogs.  A few years ago I bought a multi-thousand piece nut/bolt/washer/screw assortment in Stainless Steel on-line.  Great investment when you buy in bulk.  All the hardware stores kill you on price when you only need one or two of something...

[Jack Bennett]

On 1/30/2024 at 6:33 AM, 63RedBrier said:

TSC is my first stop for anything hardware/house/garage related.  It's five miles, next is True Value, another few miles, then Lowe's about :30.  The recurring item we buy at TSC is puppy food for large breed dogs.  A few years ago I bought a multi-thousand piece nut/bolt/washer/screw assortment in Stainless Steel on-line.  Great investment when you buy in bulk.  All the hardware stores kill you on price when you only need one or two of something...

I have a lot of difficulty when it comes to spending a large sum of money on items I may/or may not need in my old car hobby.

The absence of a certain size Nut, bolt, washer, screw,  wire, tape, brush, or some other thing of that sort only becomes obvious when you need them. And when you finally do, “Murphy” is the only other entity available to help by holding the two pieces together, or holding a finger on the leak while you go to the hardware store to buy a bolt or some tape.

In that sense, I like TSC because I can break my addiction to buying “things” into a fractionalized process, which allows me to buy smaller portions of a otherwise massive need.

When I go to Lowe’s, Home Depot, and in a instant of temporary panic, Ace Hardware, and look at  the cost of a 5/8X10”X24 bolt, I go into a state of sticker shock which closely resembles a mild, but brain numbing coma.

But, there is no apologies required, or expected, when I troop down that aisle at TSC and find that I can buy four or five of the magnificent bolts, as well as some nuts, which will REALLY fit, along with some precious lock washers at a cost cheaper than a single bolt at the big box stores.

Do I really need four or five 5/8X10”X24 bolts? Heck no! But the best insurance that I will never need a 5/8X10”X24 bolt, nut and lock washer is to have five available, even on Sunday night or Christmas Eve.

Edited January 31 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)