1956 Studebaker Commander Questions.

[noacronym]

I sought this site after waiting days for my registration cerification on the Studebaker site. None arrived either in regular email or spam box, so I assume that site has become inactive. I took delivery of this car yesterday, as driving condition according to the ad, which it seems to be. But it is not in NC inspection condition. No turn signals. Since the lever seems to be working, and the under-dash is  a collection of non-original wiring, it seems the best course of action would be to pull the steering wheel and start tracing. I am mechanically and electronically savvy. Any pointers welcome. Thanks and regards. HTF, KN4SMF

[Bloo]

On a typical American car system that shares the brake light filaments with the signals you have:

 

1) power >> flasher,      flasher >> signal switch   and

2) power >> brake light switch,        brake light switch >> turn signal switch

 

And then:

 

3) Four separate wires to bulbs at each corner of the car, using the large filaments of any 2-filament bulbs.

 

And then:

 

4) If there are 2 indicators on the dash, one for right, one for left, they connect parallel to the front signal filaments.

 

Or:

 

5) if there is only one dash indicator that is used for both right and left, it connects to the 3rd flasher pin "P".

 

How it works: When you turn on a signal, left in this example, the switch does 2 things:

 

1) it connects the left front bulb to the flasher, and...

2) it disconnects the left rear bulb from the brake light switch and connects it instead to the flasher.

 

In this way, the rear bulb filaments can be shared with the brakes, but the signal continues to blink in the rear with the brakes on.

 

The bulbs at all four corners must have good grounds, and in 1956 hardly any manufacturers provided ground wires to the sockets, relying on metal touching metal. That may not be good enough after all these years, and you may have to add ground wires to the sockets.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[noacronym]

Thak you. I was able to see a schematic for this car on the Studebaker forum, but it was in pixelated thumbnail form and was posted ages ago. Useless. And since that forum is apparently unattended or dormant, I am unable to inquire further about getting a better copy. Therefore my own remedy is to pull the steering wheel, and first examine the switch Then use my ham radio skills to start tracing. A nightmarish thought. I HATE under-dash work, particularly when at first glance I saw some home-spun wiring. I already know that somebody had moved the horn button to a knucklehead button idea strapped to the side of the steering column. I can only assume the directional signal switch is in the same shape that inspired that tinkerer to make another exterior switch for the horn. As a radio amateur I already  am faced constantly with forensic troubleshooting of past boob repair ideas on my restorations. I really didn't want to go down that road on this car. I don't fix things. I UNFIX them.

Edited September 1, 2023 by noacronym
typo (see edit history)

[8E45E]

5 hours ago, noacronym said:

Therefore my own remedy is to pull the steering wheel, and first examine the switch.

Before you go through the effort of pulling the steering wheel, look down the steering column near the pedals where the wiring harness exits.  There will be a black rubber block where each individual wire from the switch inserts into it that are pigtail connections.  That is the best location to independently check and isolate the faulty connection(s) with a circuit tester.   (Remember, ignition switch must be in 'ACC' or 'ON' position)  There is no provision at all at the switch end under the steering wheel to perform the same test.  I would not pull the wheel first, unless you don't feel the three firm left/off/right detents when the lever is moved in either direction/position.  

 

Craig

[roysboystoys]

Fuse and flasher would be the easiest things to check first.

[Rusty_OToole]

I would start at the other end. Check the fuse first if there is one. Make sure current is getting to the fuse. Then check the bulbs. They could be burned out or corroded to where they are not making a good connection. I have seen old cars where none of the tail lights or turn signals worked, and all were bad bulbs or bad connections, none of it was wiring.

If the bulbs are good and the grounds are good, but no current getting to them, then you have to start checking wiring and connections.

[m-mman]

As you are technically savvy you know enough that you need the manual 

 

Readily available on eBay look for an original version on reprints the picture scans can be dark and difficult to see 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175849948035?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Kk7HW08aTVe&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=l-cY-RXORf2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

A non pixelated diagram waits inside. 😉

[noacronym]

Thank you for these answers. I bought that book but it'll probably take a week to get here. I'm the meantime I've got a Hallicrafters radio and a Teac tape deck to finish restoring. The is only the second day since this car got here. I bought it off fleabay as running, one owner, and in basically original condition. But there are always home-rigged things in these old cars. Here are some photos. I'm not seeing a fuse box anywhere, except the one glass fuse on the firewal.l Since the horn button is obviously bad, somebody had rigged up a white horn button secured to the side of the steering column. They also installed a crazy doorbell button under the dash. I have no clue what that is for. And in another photo you can see the maze of home-brewed wiring. But not a fuse box to be seen anywhere.

[JACK M]

I wonder if the mystery button could be for an electric fuel pump.

[m-mman]

12 hours ago, noacronym said:

I don't fix things. I UNFIX them.

Very well said, we have all been through it. 

[Oldtech]

Well it looks like the signal light wiring is relatively intact. Is that the flasher above the brake lever?

[noacronym]

31 minutes ago, Oldtech said:

Well it looks like the signal light wiring is relatively intact. Is that the flasher above the brake lever?

I don't know which picture you were looking at, but at this time it doesn't matter. After a few minutes of crooking my neck to look up underneathe the dashboard (a job I HATE), I moved the car out of the sunlight back into the garage where it will sit untouched till that book get here, which is estimated to be 17 days I guess the seller of the book chose USPS turtle courier. I can't make heads or tails out of that bunch of home-brew wiring. I can't find a fuse box or block anywhere in the car. I don't know nuttin. It's a pretty nice car and I only paid 12,500 for it. Who knows? I might just put the thing right back on the internet and let somebody else have it. I'm just not feeling the thrill. Maybe 66 is too old for this mess. An old car can soon become a boat or a timeshare. Just a bottomless pit to throw money into. Lord knows I've been there before on a 68 Camaro convertible I owned for 46 years.

[JACK M]

I don't much care for under dash work either.

I usually take the front seat out of the car for that. Its extra time well spent.

[noacronym]

I've started my investigations into these under dash wiring situations, and now have the shop manual. But in hopes of being able to shortcut some of my tasks, does anyody have any speculation to offer as to that that gold doorbell button might be for?

[roysboystoys]

10 hours ago, noacronym said:

I've started my investigations into these under dash wiring situations, and now have the shop manual. But in hopes of being able to shortcut some of my tasks, does anyody have any speculation to offer as to that that gold doorbell button might be for?

Aftermarket horn button kit. 

[noacronym]

1 hour ago, roysboystoys said:

Aftermarket horn button kit. 

Thank you, but I do't thik so. For one thing, pushing it does nothig. And 2) this photo is somebody's jury rigged horn button and it does actually toot the horn. Although it escapes me why, if the original horn button in the center of the steerig wheel was broken, why wouldn't they just repair THAT?

[Joe Cocuzza]

As far as the "door bell" button goes, guessing what it could be for is just that - a guess. You are going to have to trace the 2 wires from it to see where they go in order to determine what it might be for.

[The 55er]

You stated you just purchased the car. Why don't you just contact the person you bought the car from and ask him why that large doorbell button is there and what its purpose is? Maybe he's the one that installed it in the first place?

[noacronym]

Thank you for these answers. I was just fishing for ideas before I actually dive in on the job. Here's what I don't get: I've restored countless vintage radios and ham gear, oscilloscopes, signal generators, test equipment of all kinds. Cameras, automobiles, automatic transmissions, engines, printing equipment, you name it. I cannt think of many things I HAVEN'T worked on. And in all that, I put things back the way they were supposed to be. If I can't find a part, I'll fabricate one. Is it hard? Many times, yes. I just don't do this kind of work I'm having to UN-fix. The toughest jobs I've ever done is where I had to UN-repair it first. But enough of my bellyaching.

[rocketraider]

1 hour ago, noacronym said:

it escapes me why, if the original horn button in the center of the steerig wheel was broken, why wouldn't they just repair THAT?

Probably because the car had to have a working horn to pass a state safety inspection, and either the repair shop couldn't find the obsolete steering wheel horn repair parts (last Studebaker was built 57 years ago) or the owner didn't want to spend the time and money to repair it properly. Not everyone approaches things the same as we do.

 

The underdash button is a momentary switch, meaning horn or possibly primer electric fuel pump as Jack suggested. Unless it operates something obvious, time to trace its wires from power source to load.

[TerryB]

Might have been a button for something silly like an aooga horn.  My neighbor had one rigged up in his 53 Chevrolet for that reason.

[Rusty_OToole]

I can see by the photos one of the wires from the mystery button, the red one, disappears thru the firewall. One of us should open the hood and see where it goes. You are closer than we are.

[noacronym]

First off, before I proceed with another post, I should apologize to the board on my bellyaching. It's been occurring to me of late, that at my age, I might be getting weary of repair projects. Ayway, the gold doorbell button and wire is out. It was just a simple make or break switch with one side connected to the point with the red arrow on the relay and the other side to groud. Pressing it did nothing, so that's one tumor cut out. Now on to the stock horn button. I've got the shop manual that says somethig about screwholes or somethig. But there's no such thing. I don't see any method of securing, unless it was just a press-fit. It's loose as heck and I can see some kind of white paper folded up behind it I think. Looks to me like a couple screwdrivers 180 degrees apart would just pop it off. But you kow how it is.... sometimes you're wrong and you end up ruining it.

[TerryB]

Look at this button on eBay. Might have to push in on it and twist it to get it off

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264276309246?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=_oVUNLDhRsK&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[noacronym]

19 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Look at this button on eBay. Might have to push in on it and twist it to get it off

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264276309246?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=_oVUNLDhRsK&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Thak you. I got it off once I leared how the service manual is set up. You're supposed to press down and turn it 1/3 of a turn. It's just a bayonet. Somebody had jammed it on with paper. What I found was unworkable. Obviously parts are missing.

[Rusty_OToole]

If it is like other cars of the era there is a wire that runs down the steering column and comes out the bottom. At the bottom there is a connection that plugs into a wire, that goes to the horn relay. This wire grounds inside the steering wheel when you press the horn button. This activates the horn relay.

 

If this wire breaks or is disconnected the horn will not work. If the insulation cracks, gets frayed, or grounds out the horn blows. The horn button is supposed to ground it out when you press on it. There is a slider or wheel that connects the steering wheel to the column as it turns, to insure a good ground. That is about it for the horn button, the ground connection and contact to the column. If those are all right and the horn does not work next thing is to check the relay and horns and wiring.

[noacronym]

Attached are the parts I found under the hub. It is obvious I'm going to have to draw up and 3D print replacements for the 3 plastic bayonets on the outer ring. As for the center thing with the brass doo-dad, it was just stuck on top of the big steering wheel retaining nut with some sort of tar goo. Seems to me there should be a coil or spring to push up on the decorative horn button hub. One other thing. The center of the steering shaft appears to be hollow. I don't suppose a wire was to run dow the center of the steering shaft. Logic would have me coclude any wire would run down outside the center shaft. I just don't know what all was there. I have a complaint about the steering wheel. It's too big. I'm 6'4 and even with the seat pushed back it's the dickens to get my right leg uder the steerng wheel when I get in the car. Dadgum thing must be 3 feet in diameter

[KURTRUK]

All those parts you show are readily available new from Studebaker parts vendors.  I'm not sure what Studebaker site you are referring to that you don't have access to.  The Studebaker Driver's Club Forum is available to read to your heart's content, without registering.  Probably can't post topics though.  You will find all the help and info you need there.  You have gotten good advice here.  Posting in the Studebaker-specific forum here, much further down the forum list will also yield the help you need.

There is no "fuse box" on your car.

 

https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/tech-talk

 

https://www.studebakerparts.com/studebakerparts/store/s/agora.cgi?page=56wire.html

 

Caution if you try to remove the steering wheel.  A normal steering wheel puller will destroy your wheel.

[Oldtech]

7 hours ago, noacronym said:

First off, before I proceed with another post, I should apologize to the board on my bellyaching. It's been occurring to me of late, that at my age, I might be getting weary of repair projects. Ayway, the gold doorbell button and wire is out. It was just a simple make or break switch with one side connected to the point with the red arrow on the relay and the other side to groud. Pressing it did nothing, so that's one tumor cut out. Now on to the stock horn button. I've got the shop manual that says somethig about screwholes or somethig. But there's no such thing. I don't see any method of securing, unless it was just a press-fit. It's loose as heck and I can see some kind of white paper folded up behind it I think. Looks to me like a couple screwdrivers 180 degrees apart would just pop it off. But you kow how it is.... sometimes you're wrong and you end up ruining it.

That looks like the horn relay so I suspect the mystery button was for the horn. 

[KURTRUK]

I now see you have posted on the SDC Forum, and received replies. 👍 The type steering wheel you have depends on whether you have a horn ring, or no horn ring, and power steering, or no power-steering, and what type PS.

In  addition to the shop manual, the Studebaker Parts Manual has excellent exploded diagrams of all parts.  And Studebaker parts vendors still use the Studebaker part numbers for their inventories and selling today.

[rocketraider]

8 minutes ago, KURTRUK said:

The type steering wheel you have depends on whether you have a horn ring, or no horn ring, and power steering, or no power-steering, and what type PS.

😳

 

I will never again complain about the way Oldsmobile did things.😬

[noacronym]

26 minutes ago, KURTRUK said:

I now see you have posted on the SDC Forum, and received replies. 👍 The type steering wheel you have depends on whether you have a horn ring, or no horn ring, and power steering, or no power-steering, and what type PS.

In  addition to the shop manual, the Studebaker Parts Manual has excellent exploded diagrams of all parts.  And Studebaker parts vendors still use the Studebaker part numbers for their inventories and selling today.

Thank you. Yes I fially did maage to get on the Stude forum. Was quite a wait till they actually put the membership through. This is the plain Commander 3 on the tree sedan, with no horn ring and no power steering. If aybody is interested and saw this car on fleabay, I'm the one who finally got it, although I really wanted a 1950 Champion. I looked at a couple but they were junk. This one is not bad, although buying a car by the pictures is much like looking at real estate listings. It's never as good as the photos. First thing I did was get rid of those dumb chrome headlight domes, or whatever they're called. Turned out to be metallic paint. Wasn't too crazy about that. They didn't have metallic in 1956, best I know. If I had seen that 59 Edsel before I got mine, I'd have bought it instead. Oh, well. I'm still luckier than most folks. I have a pretty nice Studebaker and they don't.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364433808282?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11051.m43.l1123&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=f3887a7ff35e4e449104dca45876a4a2&bu=43111740776&osub=-1~1&crd=20230827174746&segname=11051

 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by noacronym
typo (see edit history)

[rodneybeauchamp]

Welcome to the world of the PREVIOUS OWNER.
 

Who knows why they do what they do but all we can do it get it right. Half the fun and you get someone to curse as you lay upside down trying to get to all those unreachable wires.

 

Enjoy!

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀

Edited September 9, 2023 by rodneybeauchamp
Spelling (see edit history)

[Joe Cocuzza]

7 hours ago, noacronym said:

Thank you. Yes I fially did maage to get on the Stude forum. Was quite a wait till they actually put the membership through. This is the plain Commander 3 on the tree sedan, with no horn ring and no power steering. If aybody is interested and saw this car on fleabay, I'm the one who finally got it, although I really wanted a 1950 Champion. I looked at a couple but they were junk. This one is not bad, although buying a car by the pictures is much like looking at real estate listings. It's never as good as the photos. First thing I did was get rid of those dumb chrome headlight domes, or whatever they're called. Turned out to be metallic paint. Wasn't too crazy about that. They didn't have metallic in 1956, best I know. If I had seen that 59 Edsel before I got mine, I'd have bought it instead. Oh, well. I'm still luckier than most folks. I have a pretty nice Studebaker and they don't.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364433808282?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11051.m43.l1123&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=f3887a7ff35e4e449104dca45876a4a2&bu=43111740776&osub=-1~1&crd=20230827174746&segname=11051

 

 

In the listing the car looks good in the pictures. And I hope it is as nice as it looks.......

What would have scared me was that there were no pictures of underneath the car - floors, frame, etc.

Maybe you got extra pictures from the seller before you bought the car????? I know I would have asked for them. Only because they are notorious for rusting out

[Rusty_OToole]

15 hours ago, noacronym said:

I don't suppose a wire was to run dow the center of the steering shaft.

Noacronym old boy that is exactly how they did it. If the wire is missing just take a plain piece of wire and feed it down the center of the shaft until it comes out the bottom. Somewhere down there, should be a loose wire dangling around that goes into the wiring harness and up to the horn relay. If it is not there  you will have to make one. I don't know why anyone would remove the wire but why does anyone do anything? Most likely the wire or horn button shorted out and the horn would not stop blowing so Mr Einstein ripped out the wiring horn button and all, and "fixed" it with the bolt on button.

 

By the way we get requests on here from time to time, from guys who need help restoring their car radios. If you can do that kind of work maybe you can get someone to help with your car in exchange. Or pick up a few bucks, at least you will be working at a comfortable bench not standing on your head under the dash board.

[noacronym]

1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Noacronym old boy that is exactly how they did it. If the wire is missing just take a plain piece of wire and feed it down the center of the shaft until it comes out the bottom. Somewhere down there, should be a loose wire dangling around that goes into the wiring harness and up to the horn relay. If it is not there  you will have to make one. I don't know why anyone would remove the wire but why does anyone do anything? Most likely the wire or horn button shorted out and the horn would not stop blowing so Mr Einstein ripped out the wiring horn button and all, and "fixed" it with the bolt on button.

 

By the way we get requests on here from time to time, from guys who need help restoring their car radios. If you can do that kind of work maybe you can get someone to help with your car in exchange. Or pick up a few bucks, at least you will be working at a comfortable bench not standing on your head under the dash board.

I've never worked on a car radio, but have worked on just about any other kind. A radio is a radio. Not much to an AM radio really. Converter, IF, Detector, 1st Audio, and Output. I doubt that a car radio would even have an RF amp. Finding a new vibrator is likely the hardest part. Problem is, my plate is already full of vintage electronic projects.

[Rusty_OToole]

Tube car radio is very much like a small household radio with the addition of the vibrator to turn 6v or 12v DC to 400v AC. Somewhere around here I have plans for a solid state vibrator, I am sure you could find something on the net, and NOS replacements may still be available.

[noacronym]

I would say my biggest obstacle to servicing car radios is securing the paperwork on each one that might come through. I don't keep Riders and Sams, and certainly don't have any factory service manuals. The biggest problem I'd be likely to run into is identifying resistors or capacitors where the markings might be burned or stained. Very few pieces of electronic gear are smooth sailing from start to finish. Invariably you sail along and then hit a stone wall on one part you can't identify, or other little problem that brings progress to a screetching halt till you finally get it worked out, or some missing part you never would have surmised it evern even existed at all.

[61polara]

All though you do want working turn signals and horns, North Carolina does not require any safety inspection for vehicles over 35 years old.  If the car was titled in a state other than North Carolina it will require a serial number inspection to title the car in North Carolina.

[Frank DuVal]

On 9/8/2023 at 11:35 AM, rocketraider said:

Probably because the car had to have a working horn to pass a state safety inspection, and either the repair shop couldn't find the obsolete steering wheel horn repair parts (last Studebaker was built 57 years ago) or the owner didn't want to spend the time and money to repair it properly. Not everyone approaches things the same as we do.

Two things:

1. You wouldn't believe how many NOS Studebaker parts are STILL available from Studebaker vendors. Most even use the original Studebaker part numbers for their inventory. Buy Studebaker parts book for your year of vehicle, use those numbers to order.

2. CASO is the term. Cheap A%$ Studebaker Owner. Just like Corvairs, they (the vehicles) attract amazing work arounds to avoid proper repairs, because these cars went through a time when they were not worth $50!