1926 Elcar $10,000

[John Bloom]

Not mine. Interesting and hope it stirs someone to grab it. 
 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/223980240529697/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A43fb25ae-d7ab-4e22-a68f-ce911370d6b1
 

[Jim Skelly]

The Elcar was a well-built, mid-priced car.  It's located in Marlette, Michigan (lower Thumb area).  Too bad there aren't any decent interior shots.

 

Thanks for posting, John!

[Reynard]

 

 

1926 El Car 4 door

$10,000

Listed 3 weeks ago in Marlette, MI

 

Seller's Description

This car has an interesting history. It belonged to the El Car and motor carriage company and they were bought out by a large firm, the car came with the buildings and properties. A few years later I bought it from that company and it’s been inside ever since. It needs to be restored. It has an aluminum body. You would have to look at it to understand what it truly is. It’s a very solid car. The company that owned it moved it to Georgia, it was involved in a tornado that ruined the building and that’s how the interior and fabric got tore up and has rain damage. There are no dents in the car. It’s a very interesting car Located in Marlette. Give me a call to come look at it.

 

 

[Terry Harper]

I have to admit there is something about these big Elcars that always captures my attention and this one is an "Eight-In-line" as well. Wonderful! I hope it finds a good home.

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Wow, an Elcar!  Now that's a car that can 

legitimately be called rare.  Thanks for sharing

this unusual find.

[alsancle]

That is a cool car!

[m-mman]

Looks like it’s a Full CCCA Classic…..
 

Elcar – 1925-1933, 8-80, 8-81, 8-90, 8-91, 8-92, 120, 130 and 140

[pmhowe]

3 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

The Elcar was a well-built, mid-priced car. 

I had always thought that Elcar was an upper mid-range car, competing with the bigger Hudsons, Buicks, etc. It certainly is a nice looking sedan. although I have never liked the seven passenger models with a large rear overhang. 

 

I looked it up in B. R. Kimes "Enclycopedia of American Cars" and Jim is right. What I found especially interesting is that in 1925 Elcar introduced a Lycoming straight eight that ultimately was tweaked "to 140 HP, outpowered only by Duesenberg and Cadillac's V-16" - and, presumably,  the Marmon 16. So, if this is one of those models, it is an especially interesting car, well worth saving. I hope someone  (with deep pockets) grabs it.

[John Bloom]

I hope someone who appreciates it can get it for half what is being asked, and maybe just clean it up over the course of a month, and then rethink about what is a reasonable course forward.  I'd love to see what this car could look like in the hands of someone who loves it and has a bit of experience doing high quality detailing.  I think someone could really surprise us with a before and after picture.....to the point of wondering if it is even the same car.  As for "restoring it", that is a whole different proposal, and I don't want to imply that I'd even consider doing that.  A huge money pit (like everything else we do here), but, 40 hours of detailing with experienced hands.  Then show us what you've got.  Who's retired, loves to detail, has unlimited storage and a few thousand dollars laying around that you don't know what to do with.  (said in my best carnival barker voice).  

 

This is a pretty big car.  132 in WB???

[58L-Y8]

For 1926, the Elcar Eight-in-Line was the Model 8-81, 132"wb., 298 ci Lycoming 4H straight eight, all priced over $2,100 to $2,800, squarely versus the Packard Single Six.   The concurrent Auburn had the Lycoming 4HM, whatever that variation denoted.    Elcar hadn't competed in the entry-level premium/luxury price segment before the prior year 8-80, had generally been solid medium-priced market contender.   The Standard Catalog, edited by Kimes and Clark list 1,336 cars as their total 1926 production.  Given that model selection included the 4-55 priced ~$1,200-$1,400 and the 6-65 priced ~$1,300-$1,600, one might reasonably suppose that the 8-81 comprised the smallest percent of those 1,336 totals.   This may not be the sole survivor of the model but darn close to it.

[John Bloom]

5 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

For 1926, the Elcar Eight-in-Line was the Model 8-81, 132"wb., 298 ci Lycoming 4H straight eight, all priced over $2,100 to $2,800, squarely versus the Packard Single Six.   The concurrent Auburn had the Lycoming 4HM, whatever that variation denoted.    Elcar hadn't competed in the entry-level premium/luxury price segment before the prior year 8-80, had generally been solid medium-priced market contender.   The Standard Catalog, edited by Kimes and Clark list 1,336 cars as their total 1926 production.  Given that model selection included the 4-55 priced ~$1,200-$1,400 and the 6-65 priced ~$1,300-$1,600, one might reasonably suppose that the 8-81 comprised the smallest percent of those 1,336 totals.   This may not be the sole survivor of the model but darn close to it.

That is super interesting stuff and your analysis about production and survival numbers sounds logical.  Nothing wrong with a 5K (if the seller would take that) piece of rare garage art that never moves beyond 
"clean it up" and you have perhaps the only one.  It has the ability to provoke lots of conversation with you and your buddies in the garage.  

[TG57Roadmaster]

Are we sure it's a '26 model? Wrong visor style, teardrop headlamps, grille shape and it lacks the beltline dip at the cowl. 1926 8-81 Eight serial numbers are 37997 to (Fedco) A5S01.
Fedco numbers were used for the rest of Elcar's production. I sent the seller a message - let's see if he responds.

 

TG

Edited July 24, 2023 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[bob duffer]

Oh what a nice rare car, I would love to have that. But I'm wondering how much it would cost to restore. I wonder if the engine is locked up?

[alsancle]

1 minute ago, bob duffer said:

Oh what a nice rare car, I would love to have that. But I'm wondering how much it would cost to restore. I wonder if the engine is locked up?

Full restoration would be a fools errand, but just getting it running and moving would be cool.

[John Bloom]

50 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Full restoration would be a fools errand, but just getting it running and moving would be cool.

I can’t imagine pouring the funds into this car that it would realistically take to restore it,  But like vision you said AJ, I do think it merits somebody seeing if they can pick it up for five grand and maybe saying they would clean it up and put another 15 into it. To have it running and tidied up with tires and brakes that work, and sort what is there with the interior to the best of your ability without redoing it. just clean it well and don’t apologize for his shortcomings. 
 

 

 

[John Bloom]

1 hour ago, TG57Roadmaster said:

Are we sure it's a '26 model? Wrong visor style, teardrop headlamps, grille shape and it lacks the beltline dip at the cowl. 1926 8-81 Eight serial numbers are 37997 to (Fedco) A5S01.
Fedco numbers were used for the rest of Elcar's production. I sent the seller a message - let's see if he responds.

 

TG

Great and helpful commentary.  Let us know if you learn any new details from the seller.  
 

 

[DrumBob]

I can imagine that finding parts for an Elcar would be a challenge. 

[John Bloom]

15 minutes ago, DrumBob said:

I can imagine that finding parts for an Elcar would be a challenge. 

I suspect you are correct.  Interestingly, I did a quick search to see if there is an "Elcar Club".  Some of these small independents that had a 20-25 year run of production have an active club with members who help each other out sourcing parts, keeping parts cars for others, etc...... In my search I didn't come up with anything.  We see on our site, lots of activity in Independent makes like Franklin, Pierce Arrow, etc...... and I'm sure their production numbers dwarf Elcar.  But Marmon, Stutz (Indiana Makes like Elcar), and other makes of less production do have some club structure.  I believe some of our own are the driving force for Cole, and Locomobile club activity.  

 

Any Elcar Club members out there to correct my empty search?  Any past history of an Elcar club?

[Terry Harper]

9 hours ago, DrumBob said:

I can imagine that finding parts for an Elcar would be a challenge. 

Yes, and no. Body and unique trim and fittings yes. The engine and drive train I would think not so much. As with most independent manufacturers, many, many components were purchased from well known industry wide suppliers. Borg Warner, Timken, etc., Lycoming in the case of the engine (though that could present it's own issues). On the plus side this particular car looks very complete. 

 

As others have suggested, If it were me I would negotiate a price and limit restoration to obtaining reliable operating condition and interior preservation/limited restoration and I think the purchaser would have a great and unique car to enjoy. 

 

In fine fettle it would have adequate H.P. to make a nice smooth running touring car.

[jeff_a]

In my opinion, it's later than 1926, since there is no R-R-style rad shell. My Grandfather's '26 had one of those.

There is an Elcar Museum in Tipton [Correction: Bristol], Indiana.....and a book on the marque.

Maybe it's a 1929 8-78, like the July 23rd post above shows.

Edited August 2, 2023 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[old car fan]

Jeff,we own a Elcar, I can't find the museum  mentioned. 

[John Bloom]

 

this has to be the same car...???

 

 

 

Guest hoppy172

Posted October 11, 2010

Hello,

My father-in-law has a 1928 four door Elcar sedan possible model L78 (or 75, not positive) with a Lycoming straight 8. He advised that the car is approximately 99% complete, missing cloth top and seat covers....pretty much anything that was fabric. He even has the original oil can for the engine (apparently there was a holder/compartment for an oil can that was attached to the engine). The vehicle was owned by a minister in Marion Indiana before purchased by my father-in-law. It is my understanding that the engine runs and has 18,000 miles on it. I would like to restore it before he passes but have no experience and would not know where to start. Any suggestions would be appreciated. How rare is this vehicle?

Thanks.

Edited October 11, 2010 by hoppy172 (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

21 hours ago, old car fan said:

Jeff,we own a Elcar, I can't find the museum  mentioned. 

Apologies, old car fan, I misspelled Tipton...which I thought was where the Elcar museum was. Correction: Bristol, Indiana.

There's a long series of posts on the "CCCA, General" Forum here with 4 pages of Elcar info, including some photos of the inside of the museum. It's possible the museum is not around anymore. It's a private collection...I think V.milke stated on those pages he has been there. 

WOAH! MISTAKE! Sorry....I misremembered the town  the Elcar Museum is in. It's BRISTOL, Indiana, in Elkhart County.


i found the correct town looking in a thread: "Elcar project, parts needed", by V.Milke running from 2009-2019.

Edited August 2, 2023 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Stately car, I could see that in my garage for sure.

[58L-Y8]

I wonder if this is a 1929 Elcar 95 or 96?  Does anyone have good photos of that model and year or those for 1930?

[alsancle]

The double rear hinged doors are pretty cool.   Somebody needs to be on this (not me of course).

 

[alsancle]

This is the thread John is referring to:

 

 

[jeff_a]

The Elcar Thread on CCCA - General has 135 posts and 22,700 views now.  I have a copy of the Elcar book but haven't found it yet.

Edited August 3, 2023 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

On 8/1/2023 at 5:29 PM, old car fan said:

Jeff,we own a Elcar, I can't find the museum  mentioned. 

Hi Old Car Fan,

   Here's a picture of the inside of the Elcar Museum...from the CCCA General/Elcar thread, which you've probably found already. Courtesy of V.Milke.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

The photo above was taken about 1995. The Turquoise & Royal Blue 1926 Landau Roadster was my Grandfather Brown's about 1927-1990. It's a Model 8-81 with a straight-eight Lycoming engine.

[John Bloom]

1 hour ago, jeff_a said:

The photo above was taken about 1995. The Turquoise & Royal Blue 1926 Landau Roadster was my Grandfather Brown's about 1927-1990. It's a Model 8-81 with a straight-eight Lycoming engine.

Very cool Jeff, do you have any other photos of it?

[jeff_a]

Here you go, John: from the CCCA - General, Elcar thread with 4 pages of posts. You may not have recognized it as the same car. 
 

...Kansas, about 1930, with my Dad, Aunt Geneva, and Grandmother Brown.

 

 

 

 

In 2012 at the Gilmore Car Museum in Michigan. Since it's a CCCA Classic, it's appropriate that the CCCA Museum is behind it.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

17 hours ago, jeff_a said:

Here you go, John: from the CCCA - General, Elcar thread with 4 pages of posts. You may not have recognized it as the same car. 
 

...Kansas, about 1930, with my Dad, Aunt Geneva, and Grandmother Brown.

 

 

 

 

In 2012 at the Gilmore Car Museum in Michigan. Since it's a CCCA Classic, it's appropriate that the CCCA Museum is behind it.

 

 

Thanks, very nice. Interesting rear bumper approach for a car with rear mounted spares. 

[John Bloom]

After disappearing for 6 months, this listing is back.  Same pictures, same price ($10,000)

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1076103166767222/

 

 

[John Bloom]

I always wonder about a car and listing like this.  At "Free", it is a financially poor decision.  Is no one contacting the seller to talk about it?  Does the seller think "I won't take less than 10K"?  

 

In my mind, if this is your car, you want to get something out of it, but more importantly you are kind of interviewing anyone interested to see if they are a serious person who knows what it could be, they have some mechanical skills, but maybe limited finances and you are basically trying to save the car and get it to someone who "might" take it up a notch or two (get it running?), or at the least, "do it no harm".  

 

Hoping the seller meets someone who has some skills and it could change hands for half the price and the car could have a second life.  

[marc1122]

I talked to the fellow that owns this car back in December. Nice man but told me when asked that the price was not negotiable. 
I agree it is an interesting car and to sort out the mechanicals and get it running would be enough invested.

he said it had been ten years since the car ran and drove around the yard. Much different than at speed on the road

[John Bloom]

3 hours ago, marc1122 said:

I talked to the fellow that owns this car back in December. Nice man but told me when asked that the price was not negotiable. 
I agree it is an interesting car and to sort out the mechanicals and get it running would be enough invested.

he said it had been ten years since the car ran and drove around the yard. Much different than at speed on the road

Thanks for letting us know Marc. If the price isn’t negotiable, I don’t see this car moving easily.  And maybe that is fine by the seller. To each his own, it is his car. 
 

 

[classiclines]

The Seller's Facebook Photo shows him standing in front of four fully-restored collector cars.  He's also selling a 1934 Ford english ford model y and a 1963 Ford ranchero (with other cars in the background) - so, he apparently is a collector who appears to be selling off some of his cars/projects.  

 

Google has uploaded "Elcar and Pratt Automobiles: The Complete History" which makes it searchable...   ...but they only let you see a certain subset of pages...   ...lucky for us you can see this page (below):

 

This is a picture of a page in the book listing known "survivors" - note the last car in the middle column.   It says the car passed to a private owner Russ Craft and remains in his care in Michigan.  Well, the Facebook Seller is Russ Kraft and the craigslist listing says the car is in Michigan.   So, either it's an amazing coincidence - or - there is a typo in the owner's last name.  This may be that car - you'd have to ask the Seller - the book says 1925 the ad says 1926 - again it could just be coincidence.

 

Just FYI for future Elcar reference...   ...this website has a great selection of Elcar publications:

https://www.chuckstoyland.com/category/automotive/indiana-automotive-companies/elcar/

 

 

[John Bloom]

1 hour ago, classiclines said:

The Seller's Facebook Photo shows him standing in front of four fully-restored collector cars.  He's also selling a 1934 Ford english ford model y and a 1963 Ford ranchero (with other cars in the background) - so, he apparently is a collector who appears to be selling off some of his cars/projects.  

 

Google has uploaded "Elcar and Pratt Automobiles: The Complete History" which makes it searchable...   ...but they only let you see a certain subset of pages...   ...lucky for us you can see this page (below):

 

This is a picture of a page in the book listing known "survivors" - note the last car in the middle column.   It says the car passed to a private owner Russ Craft and remains in his care in Michigan.  Well, the Facebook Seller is Russ Kraft and the craigslist listing says the car is in Michigan.   So, either it's an amazing coincidence - or - there is a typo in the owner's last name.  This may be that car - you'd have to ask the Seller - the book says 1925 the ad says 1926 - again it could just be coincidence.

 

Just FYI for future Elcar reference...   ...this website has a great selection of Elcar publications:

https://www.chuckstoyland.com/category/automotive/indiana-automotive-companies/elcar/

 

 

 

Great Research and a nice reference website as well.  thanks for sharing what you found.  

[classiclines]

FYI - Seller responded to my query with response that a sale is 'pending' so he did not answer any of my other questions