Opportunity to buy a 1960 Corvette - I have questions.

[George Smolinski]

I'll be looking at a '60 Corvette in spring that I want to buy. It's tucked away for the winter now. The current owner bought it used when he was 18. He's now in his late 60'2 early 70's. He's always garaged it. Red, black interior, 283, 4 speed. Engine isn't original, but supposedly a correct 1960 283. 7000 rpm tach with 5000 redline. No hardtop, but does have convertible top in good condition. Never hit body. Never restored, but current owner painted it after he bought it. Overall looks = a driver that was treated well and maintained well. 

Questions:

Any problem areas I should be sure to inspect? 

What 283 would have come with the car based on the tach info?

As a percentage, how much does the non-original engine devalue the car?

I know it's impossible to get much information on most Chevrolets from that era. How about Corvettes? Is there something like PHS for them?

Condition is about a 3.5 from Old Cars Weekly explanation. Care to put a value on it?

Thanks in advance for any help or info.

 

[EmTee]

Ask yourself whether you want an early Corvette to drive and enjoy, or as an 'investment'.  If your answer is the former, then this sounds like it could be a good car for you; otherwise, you may want to keep looking...

[alsancle]

Here is my limited help:

 

1. There is no PHS like service. Whatever documentation come from the car is what you get.

 

2.  Engine swap makes paperwork unnecessary.

 

3. What Tim just said.   Figure substantial discount for engine swap and think of it as a driver.

[SC38dls]

It’s a driver at best. The repaint maybe covering cracks or splits in the fiberglass as well. If the price is right go for it as it would be a fun car to drive the wheels off it as a character on this forum likes to say. Plus you wouldn’t have to worry about it getting road rash. 
dave s 

[trimacar]

My thoughts, no expert but based on ownership of a ‘63 split window for a decade a while back.

 

For serious money, numbers matching on a Corvette is a huge deal.  Not just engine, but exterior engine components too.  Most components are date coded and must be within a couple of months prior to car build date.  Very expensive to find correct components.

 

To a Corvette collector, I’d say non-original under the hood devalues car at least 30%.

 

You state body never hit, but an early repaint may mean just the opposite.  An album of pictures came with my 63, showing body damage in the 1970s.  Expertly repaired, no evidence other than period pictures.

 

Yes, buy as a driver, at a driver price, and it’s fun.  As stated, as an investment, not so much….

Edited November 30, 2022 by trimacar (see edit history)

[George Smolinski]

Just now, trimacar said:

For serious money, numbers matching on a Corvette is a huge deal.  Not just engine, but exterior engine components too.  Most componentsare date coded and must be within a couple of months prior to car build date.  Very wxpensive to find correct components.

I went through all of this with a 1966 Biscayne L72. It took about 4 years to get all the correct dated components. I had to compete for them with the 1966 Corvette restorers since the same L72 came in the Corvette also.

I was planning to drive it while fixing a few small items and making minor improvements to it. Play with it for a couple years, then sell it. I know the Corvettes that are all correct appreciate much more and faster than a driver like this one, but from personal experience a long time ago (20 years) the drivers don't lose any value.

One thought on the engine, it seems to me I read somewhere that the NCRS allowed block restamping to make a car correct. Does anyone know if it's true?

[John Bloom]

I will make a few comments: I have owned a few corvettes but never a straight axle.  I have ridden and driven  a few.  
 

1960 corvettes are attractive,  the steering wheel position for the driver feels awkwardly tight.  There are always a ton for sale, so if color or specific year is important, hold out for what you want

 

there is a pecking order of what NOM will do to value......

-numbers don’t match but correct engine for the car.

-numbers don’t match and engine may have same Displacement and of that period but came from another model line of Chevrolet. 
-dropped a 350 in it and presentation is clean. 
-dropped a modern crate engine in it, lipstick on a pig....

 

I have a #’s matching mid year. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a nice straight axle with a NOM as a driver if the price reflected what the car was.  I Wouldn’t see it as an investment, but a fun car to drive. 
 

 

[West Peterson]

Since the car is being stored for winter, I'm assuming it's located somewhere in the "rust belt." Seek help/information in regard to what under-body structural areas are troublesome. As I recall, areas around the windshield/cowl are prone to rust.

[auburnseeker]

I had a 60 Fuelie about 8 years ago.  Wonderful car.  Probably around a low 2 being very honest.  Very correct and original with one respray in original color.  After owning it and looking it over the only damage had been a small repair on the driver's side front under the bumper on the corner.  Well done but to a real expert detectable as they will examine every seam on a good car. Super nice frame and undercarriage.   West coast car.  (Ironically the 2 pros I hired to look at it never saw the repair and it was in a showroom when they looked at it) 

 

I would still have it today probably if we didn't need a bigger house and it hadn't experienced an engine fire that did substantial damage. 

 

Vette guys especially with anything numbers matching or to be correct want to make sure everything is correct.  They were trying to date code everything on it to make sure it was exact 100%.  At this point I would almost prefer a non correct car with a different engine to avoid the agony of that whole scene especially if it was priced right.  

 

Obviously you need to make sure the frame is good.  Look at the body seems that are obvious and check for any screws rivets or holes in the them as they often use those fasteners to hold stuff together when they are doing the fiberglass work.  Any real damage to the body will devalue the car even if properly repaired.   Still not an end all depending on the price. 

 

As far as restamping the block, leave it alone.  That's a huge red flag to anyone that you are trying to pull something and it's almost impossible to restamp and make it undetectable.  The pad is slightly lower than the cylinder head surface.  If the block is decked it will remove it and that's the first red flag as it will be smooth all the way across and not recessed.  Secondly it also has a machined finish on it that's hard to duplicate. 

 

I believe the tach was for the low horse cars. So that alone isn't going to make it valuable to try to mess around with getting it all correct especially since you are starting with a non original engine.  

 

Figure on it always being a driver.  I wouldn't discredit the repaint.  The factory paint wasn't that good and if it only has one paint job on it,  it very likely got resprayed to freshen it up like most did years ago.  If it's old paint work,  20 years or more.  It's stable.  At this point any bodywork is going to show itself as well as cracks,  which it will have a few.  Probably on the cowl by the hood or somewhere else along the hood lip.  Maybe near the headlights.  I would say if it's still presentable you are in pretty good shape. 

 

Be sure the vin is in place and doesn't look monkeyed with.  Should be on the steering column under the hood.

 

It's all price dependent.  A crappy driveable C1 seems to be about 35G with issues.  A decent driver if you really look seem to fall in the over 40G range and good cars start in the 50's,  but once in a while a cheaper one can be had.   Saw a real nice 57 (for the money for sale for 35G) and would have called on it if I had some $$

 

Right now would like a 54 or 55 but probably need to sell something to think about that.   I've seen a few of those in the 55-65G  range. seems to be the average for a driver.

 

This is my car after it burnt and I detailed it for sale.  You can see the hood is ruined and some damage to the speaker hole in the dash.  Damage under the hood was extensive.    Have to give a shout out to the fire department for helping put it out and only a mere tiny scratch  during the process.   Of course We had been working on putting it out before they got there so that probably aided in it not being completely destroyed.  Fortunately engine was ice cold as I just started it up so it suffered no damage internally. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

Oh on the hardtop note.  It's a bonus to not have it.  Pain to store and with a soft top,  you will most likely never use it.   I took it off mine and only put it on the day the transporter picked it up.   The rest of the time you have a $4500 ornament in the way in your garage. 

 

Mine was a soft top delete car so it was ordered with just the hardtop. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Check undercarriage for rust. I saw a 60 corvette that needed a frame replacement. Body mounts brackets needed replacement also.

That a great find.

[Dr B]

I am deciding to take the plunge, this is my first post.  I have been reading the forum for years, but never felt I had the expertise of so many of you to make useful response.  A few of you are friends in the "real" world (as opposed to the virtual world of the forum). I couldn't resist responding this time since I have had a solid axle Corvette for 42 years (1959, essentially the exact same as the 1960 under discussion).  Mine is a driver and I do a lot of it. I do not consider myself an expert on solid axle Corvettes but a relative well informed consumer.  I do also belong to the NCRS and have judged at local meets (to increase my knowledge).  My first thought is that regarding the engine, as far as I know, there is not such thing as "numbers matching".  Stamping the block with the VIN did not start until the C2 Corvettes.  The best one can do is check the block casting number and date to see if it was made in period.  As mentioned, many (most) parts are date coded, so if that is important and you want to show the car, then the components should be checked.  If it is just a driver (like mine is) the date codes don't matter and the only thing that matters is the components work properly.  As for "not hit bodies" it is possible, but so many Corvettes were 'run hard' in period, a true no hit body is rare.  As mentioned above, a correct repair is most important, especially if this is a driver.  Also as mentioned above, the driving position needs some getting used to, but so do most older cars, especially sports cars.  I have had great fun in our solid axle, I dated my wife in it, my kids grew up driving in it (as soon as they could sit up - my wife made me put seat belts into it for their safety), and now one of them drives it. It has been very dependable.   As for 1960 Corvettes, I am not aware of any specific areas that are "problems", just typical 1950s-1960s issues.  As pointed out, the frames are metal and do rust, so that is important to check.  As for value, solid axle drivers (1959-1962) seem to be in the $40k-60k range (ballpark).  One more thought, if you really want to carefully check the car over, then I suggest you buy the NRCS judging manual and use that as a guide for "correctness".  Good luck!

 

Robert

Edited November 30, 2022 by Dr B (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

1960 Corvettes,  atleast from about mid year on,  do have the last digits of the vin number stamped in the block.  Mine were and when I posted the car for sale I posted pictures of that to support it. 

[John Bloom]

29 minutes ago, Dr B said:

I am deciding to take the plunge, this is my first post.  I have been reading the forum for years, but never felt I had the expertise of so many of you to make useful response.  A few of you are friends in the "real" world (as opposed to the virtual world of the forum). I couldn't resist responding this time since I have had a solid axle Corvette for 42 years 

 

Robert

Welcome Robert and thanks for giving some of your first hand experience. 
 

John

 

[auburnseeker]

When I bought mine we did alot of research regarding the whole number thing and out there is the info on numbers from the block matching the vin.  If I recall it was in April or May of 1960 they started doing it.  I don't recall the reason why.  So if it's an early 60 car it may not have been possible,  but a late 60 car it should.  Mine I think was built in June or July.  I don't recall exactly now.   

 

Side note,  my car did get rebuilt and was actually for sale on ebay a couple of years ago.   I verified it by the vin as I still had an old insurance card laying around with it on it.   The buyer that had it rebuilt/ restored, added a soft top.  Also lost his shirt when he sold it as it had a buy it now of maybe 12G more than he paid for it and it had an insurance estimate for the repairs needed at around 35G.   Some of it could have been short cut,  though the pictures sure didn't look like they did, especially adding a soft top and transport to FL from NY.   He also was selling a few other "toys" and all looked like he had alot of money in them and they were selling for quite a loss over what he must have had invested. 

[George Smolinski]

7 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

I had a 60 Fuelie about 8 years ago.  Wonderful car.  Probably around a low 2 being very honest.  Very correct and original with one respray in original color.  After owning it and looking it over the only damage had been a small repair on the driver's side front under the bumper on the corner.  Well done but to a real expert detectable as they will examine every seam on a good car. Super nice frame and undercarriage.   West coast car.  (Ironically the 2 pros I hired to look at it never saw the repair and it was in a showroom when they looked at it) 

 

I would still have it today probably if we didn't need a bigger house and it hadn't experienced an engine fire that did substantial damage. 

 

Vette guys especially with anything numbers matching or to be correct want to make sure everything is correct.  They were trying to date code everything on it to make sure it was exact 100%.  At this point I would almost prefer a non correct car with a different engine to avoid the agony of that whole scene especially if it was priced right.  

 

Obviously you need to make sure the frame is good.  Look at the body seems that are obvious and check for any screws rivets or holes in the them as they often use those fasteners to hold stuff together when they are doing the fiberglass work.  Any real damage to the body will devalue the car even if properly repaired.   Still not an end all depending on the price. 

 

As far as restamping the block, leave it alone.  That's a huge red flag to anyone that you are trying to pull something and it's almost impossible to restamp and make it undetectable.  The pad is slightly lower than the cylinder head surface.  If the block is decked it will remove it and that's the first red flag as it will be smooth all the way across and not recessed.  Secondly it also has a machined finish on it that's hard to duplicate. 

 

I believe the tach was for the low horse cars. So that alone isn't going to make it valuable to try to mess around with getting it all correct especially since you are starting with a non original engine.  

 

Figure on it always being a driver.  I wouldn't discredit the repaint.  The factory paint wasn't that good and if it only has one paint job on it,  it very likely got resprayed to freshen it up like most did years ago.  If it's old paint work,  20 years or more.  It's stable.  At this point any bodywork is going to show itself as well as cracks,  which it will have a few.  Probably on the cowl by the hood or somewhere else along the hood lip.  Maybe near the headlights.  I would say if it's still presentable you are in pretty good shape. 

 

Be sure the vin is in place and doesn't look monkeyed with.  Should be on the steering column under the hood.

 

It's all price dependent.  A crappy driveable C1 seems to be about 35G with issues.  A decent driver if you really look seem to fall in the over 40G range and good cars start in the 50's,  but once in a while a cheaper one can be had.   Saw a real nice 57 (for the money for sale for 35G) and would have called on it if I had some $$

 

Right now would like a 54 or 55 but probably need to sell something to think about that.   I've seen a few of those in the 55-65G  range. seems to be the average for a driver.

 

This is my car after it burnt and I detailed it for sale.  You can see the hood is ruined and some damage to the speaker hole in the dash.  Damage under the hood was extensive.    Have to give a shout out to the fire department for helping put it out and only a mere tiny scratch  during the process.   Of course We had been working on putting it out before they got there so that probably aided in it not being completely destroyed.  Fortunately engine was ice cold as I just started it up so it suffered no damage internally. 

 

 

Same colors as my daughter’s ‘61 that she had in high school in the late ‘90’s.

[TAKerry]

Very good advice from those in the know. One thing I could add though. See if you can find a local 'vette 'expert' to go with you and look the car over. I no very little about them and was at a show a couple of years ago parked beside a beautiful 78 model. Talking with the owner he was very well versed on all of the models, and had owned many over the years. They are very popular cars and it should not be hard finding someone local that has a great deal of knowledge that can help you do a hands on. There is even a large Corvette club in my area. Perhaps you can find one close to you. Good luck, sounds like it could be a fun car to cruise around in.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Had two 56 Corvettes, no numbers matching on the early ones as others mentioned. Fun cars to drive around, depending on your physical size. They can be very uncomfortable for long periods of time. Factory bonding strips, rust in the frame, condition of the fiberglass body, date coded parts are all some of the things to look for. Your can get a NCRS pocket book. It will have the numbers in it that you will want to look for. Fun cars, a loved classic where ever you go with it.

[EmTee]

If you want a Corvette driver that you don't have to worry about and you're on a budget find a nice, clean '74 - '82.  There are lots of them and although not exciting performers, they generally have A/C, cruise and power accessories.  With the 350 V8 and highway gearing they eat-up highway with aplomb and are pretty comfortable.  No worries about date-coded components and most wear parts are available from your local auto-parts store.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Intetesting thread and hopefully George shares more on the car when the time is right.

My Corvette experience is limited ti a well used 71 roadster years ago, but I have always been a C1 fan, even more so than C2, although I like those as well.

Seems to me $45 - 50K might secure a NOM C2 in decent shape, is the C1, more, less or close in value?  Thinking base cars, I know the performance variants increase significantly in value, but outside those, are C1 cars comparable?

[John Bloom]

1 minute ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Intetesting thread and hopefully George shares more on the car when the time is right.

My Corvette experience is limited ti a well used 71 roadster years ago, but I have always been a C1 fan, even more so than C2, although I like those as well.

Seems to me $45 - 50K might secure a NOM C2 in decent shape, is the C1, more, less or close in value?  Thinking base cars, I know the performance variants increase significantly in value, but outside those, are C1 cars comparable?

Steve, if I had to guess, I’d say that comparing similar condition C1’s to C2’s.....  the C1’s have roughly a 20-25% higher cost. That is a very general estimate. There are lots of outliers that don’t fit into my simple estimate (any 53, 63 fuelie coupe big tank, etc...). 

the corvette world is a lot of fun with nice people. Like anything, there are some purists with strong personalities who may decide it is their life calling to point out everything not original on your car.... just to make them feel superior. The easiest way to avoid those types, is to just tour with fun people and stay away from judging events. 
 

it all depends on what you like. I have a buddy who loved the judging stuff and correcting every little thing that wasn’t as the car drive off the assembly line.  To each his own. 
 

 

[auburnseeker]

C1 and C2 drivers I think fall pretty close.  I haven't seen any driveable C2's for really under 35.  Though maybe you get a little nicer C2 for the same money as a slightly scruffier C1.   I haven't followed them real close,  just general observations from all the cars I see in general for sale,  that a few C1 and C2's pop up in.  

 

With regard to the buying a clean 74-82 Corvette instead of a C1 or C2.  That's about like telling a guy that want's a 65 Mustang to buy  a Mustang II and he will be just as happy.   Or maybe a guy wanting a 55 Tbird to go buy a 75. 

 

All any of those share is the name.   Yes I had a 68 C3 427 Tripower car that was pretty nice and went like a raped ape,  but in no way compared to the 60 Fuelie.   Totally different car and experience. 

[George Smolinski]

A Lot of good information and opinions so far, and thanks to all who contributed. I think I'll copy and paste all the replies into my documents, so I can reread & research this spring when I go to look at it. FYI, I'm not looking for a Corvette in general, I'm looking at THIS Corvette. If it doesn't pan out, I'll start looking for a 1969 or 1971.

[zepher]

6 hours ago, John Bloom said:

the corvette world is a lot of fun with nice people. Like anything, there are some purists with strong personalities who may decide it is their life calling to point out everything not original on your car.... just to make them feel superior.

 

This was my experience when I owned a 100% original, low mile '78 Silver Anniversary with the L82/4 Speed combo.

What spurred me to attend a few Corvette gatherings was one day when I was filling up, which happened quite regular with that car, a guy pulled up in a current gen Corvette and started asking me about my car.

He asked about the power antenna and I told him I wasn't sure if it was the original one or not.

He proceeded to remove his suit jacket and lay down on the pavement in the gas station so he could look up under the car and see the antenna motor.

He informed that it was, indeed, original and invited me to attend a local Corvette owner's meeting.

 

Most of the folks there were extremely nice and were genuinely nice, 'car' people but there was one or two like the persons you mentioned about being know it alls.

 

I still miss that car and I wonder how it's doing down in Australia as that is where it was shipped to when it was sold.

[28 Chrysler]

I have worked on a few of these doing body work back in the late 60s early 70s.

The most common area for cracks was in the center of the front wheel opening going up towards the hood.

I always reinforced the wheel opening on the underside before the crack was fixed.

Another area was between the windshield and the rear corners of the hood.

If you can, pull the headlight doors off and look for damage.

[Ed Luddy]

Have owned one C1 Corvette. That was back in 1982.  Always loved the look of them when growing up and traded my 73 Corvette and cash for the 1960.

 Didn't keep it for long as the driving experience wasn't to my liking. The drum brakes and 49 Chevy king pin front suspension/steering did not go well with my driving style as a young man. So I sold it and bought a 1974 Corvette convertible 454. Now that I'm a geezer and no need to drive fast would love to own another!